What tool to use - Roubo deadman

[Phil Mueller]

Many of you are familiar with the deadman design from Chris Schwarz book. The bottom of the deadman has a recess - 45 degrees on both sides with 1/4" flat. Essentially: /-\ This allows it to run on the same/opposite profile of the stretcher.

Doing the stretcher was straight forward. What tool/tools would you use to create this 45 degree with 1/4 flat bottom recess on 1 1/4" x 8" end grain? Chris does it with a table saw. Is there a hand tool approach you could recommend?

My current thinking is to use a router plane with 1/4" cutter to depth, then chisel the 45 sides?

Thanks.

[Garrett Ellis]

I think a router plane would take forever on end grain like that. I would try to saw the 2 angled walls, then chop out the middle flat.

i try to approach tasks using the coarse, medium, fine strategy. So use whatever tools you have to remove the majority of the waste, then work your way to smoothing/finishing the shape you need. A router plane is more on the "fine" end of the spectrum IMO.

[Jim Koepke]

+1 on what Garrett said.

The route to doing this depends on what you have available. For me a plow or dado plane to go across the end with a 1/4" groove, then chisel the sides unless you have side rabbet planes that could come out to play.

Knife the edges of the dado and saw out the end to start to avoid blow out and keep it neat.

If you have some spare saw blade hanging about, you could make something like a stair saw with a fence.

There are many ways to end up with the same recess.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

Many of you are familiar with the deadman design from Chris Schwarz book. The bottom of the deadman has a recess - 45 degrees on both sides with 1/4" flat. Essentially: /-\ This allows it to run on the same/opposite profile of the stretcher.

Doing the stretcher was straight forward. What tool/tools would you use to create this 45 degree with 1/4 flat bottom recess on 1 1/4" x 8" end grain? Chris does it with a table saw. Is there a hand tool approach you could recommend?

My current thinking is to use a router plane with 1/4" cutter to depth, then chisel the 45 sides?

Thanks.

Phil, I did mine with the tablesaw, but if I was doing it by hand I think there is a way that is straight forward.

Here are pics from my build ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Whatsonmybench_html_28c3a86d.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Whatsonmybench_html_18dd139d.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/OhSoclose_html_23f42abb.jpg

You can see the triangular section to remove. I would begin by marking this out, and then first saw to the centre 9to the apex of the triangle, and then saw the sides of the triangle with a panel saw. Saw just inside the lines.

Once this is done, clean up with a shoulder plane.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Warren Mickley]

I don't know where this slanted design comes from. A plate from Andre Roubo certainly seems to show a groove with straight sides. I have used a straight groove since 1979; it still works well. I used a home made plough plane to make my groove. Why screw around? Is there some advantage to a slanted design?
Here is Roubo.
322953

[David Eisenhauer]

The thinking is that the angled-cut sides on the top of the stretcher do not fill up with sawdust, unlike a groove that will fill up with sawdust.

[Warren Mickley]

Here is Follansbee
322954

[Derek Cohen]

The angled cuts are simply easier to fit together.

I doubt that "sawdust" is an issue for Follansbee. It may be for others who use different methods of planing. Not everyone works predominantly greenwood and/or produces such thick shavings.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bill McDermott]

Rip saw then shoulder plane sounds efficient and effective. I will add... when planing end grain like that, soaking with denatured alcohol makes things go MUCH more smoothly. One of those things I wish I had learned long before I did.
Another thought, why worry about the flat in the deadman? I don't see the downside of a V cut. Blunting the top of the stretcher makes sense.

If you are working on the deadman, your bench must be close to completion. That must be a great feeling of accomplishment and excitement.

[Warren Mickley]

Here is a Dominy style bench in use in the Hay cabinetmaker shop at Williamsburg. Presumably the Williamsburg cabinetmaker had access to the original 18th century bench at Winterthur.

https://anthonyhaycabinetmaker.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/dsc_00151.jpg

[Steve Voigt]

I have a groove, not a v-cut…as you can see below, debris does tend to build up, but I've not found it to be an inconvenience. We don't need a piston fit here!

I think I would let the tooling determine the design here. If I were using a tablesaw, I'd cut a v-groove. But if (like the OP) I were doing it by hand, I'd just make a regular groove--much easier. Things that are easy with hand tools are not always easy with power, and vice-versa.

322957

[Brad Roof]

Maybe separate the deadman into two panels and shoot 45's then glue together to make a triangle groove?

[Jim Koepke]

Maybe separate the deadman into two panels and shoot 45's then glue together to make a triangle groove?

I was thinking of a similar solution. Mine would involve just adding a piece at the bottom to ride the rail.

The best solution with all that has been offered is to decide what one's tooling can do with the users abilities. One solution might be to use a large drill through the bottom of the deadman and some half round glued to the bottom rail.

Designing something to follow the solution someone else found within another shop using different tools and abilities can end up being an exercise in frustration.

jtk

[Joe A Faulkner]

Phil, I take it you have already fashioned the stretcher to receive the deadman notched as you describe. I'd probably take a practice run at this with on a piece of scrap. Cut the dado groove first, with a router, or rip saw and pare, then cut the angles with a rip saw and tune with a chisel.

[Phil Mueller]

Thanks all for the helpful input!

I'm afraid I'm too far down the path for a few; deadman is already glued up and stretcher is complete, otherwise miter than glue up would have been a great way to go. I'm finding out as a relative beginner, thinking through every step of the project can make some things much easier. I tend to get ahead of myself.

I believe I will attempt the hand saw route...will certainly need to give it a practice run or two.
This build has been an "ok, let's do this" sort of thing from the beginning and more to come.

Bill, I'm nursing a sore shoulder from planing and decided to take a break and do a few of the smaller parts. So far top and legs are done...stretchers in progress. But I am starting to see light at the end of the tunnel.

[Pat Barry]

A few questions about the deadman. I'm just curious what is holding the deadman in place on the top side, is that another v groove detail? How much leeway do you have in making the groove? If its too big and sloppy does it really matter?

[Phil Mueller]

The top runs in a 5/8" wide and about an inch deep dado set back 5/8" from the front of the bench top. The top of the deadman has a 5/8" rabbet that fits into the dado. It's actually made to be loose enough to lift the deadman up and off the bottom rail...so precision fit isn't critical. After all, it just needs to slide back and forth and hold a dowel.