Forest Woodworker II - why are most blades ATB?

[Mike Dowell]

Here is the standard WWII blade - http://www.forrestblades.com/woodworker-2-all-purpose-saw-blade-for-table-saws/

I was wondering why most saw blades you see have that tooth pattern that doesn't cut clean at the peak of the kerf? I hate it when I'm using the saw to cut a quick lap joint and I've got all these little spikes left over from the top of the blade, which I have to then chisel smooth and sand.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Check this out. Lots of good info on the various tooth grinds.

http://community.woodmagazine.com/t5/Scott-Spencer/Deciphering-Saw-Blade-Terminology-and-Tooth-Grinds/ba-p/64316

If you want a flat bottomed cut, you need a Flat Top Grind (FTG). But the trade off is that you'll end up with a lot of tear out if you cut across the grain.

You'll notice the same thing with the outer blades on a dado stack- they leave little ears at the bottom of the cut too, right at the cut line. This is because dado blades are often used in sheet goods and across the grain, where tear out is a problem otherwise.

[Peter Aeschliman]

PS- if you want to do the "nibble" method with a FTG blade for lap joints etc, and you want to avoid tear out, you should use a marking knife to sever the grain at the shoulder on all four sides (to avoid tear out at your base line) and cut with a sacrificial backer on your miter gauge (like a zero clearance insert).

[Peter Quinn]

The wood worker II and many ATB blades is a multi purpose Jack of all trades approach to cutting everything reasonably well, but it's not the best at anything really. Those ATB wings are there to add a steep shear angle that pushes down on the face veneer when cutting plywood and does reasonably well at cross cutting solids. It's not a joinery blade per se. Most blade manufacturers have responded to the demand for joinery blades and offer flat top grind blades or sets for box joints and such that do leave a flat bottom with no wings. I use a 30th rip blade with FTG and a full backer that does square bottoms and shoulders.

[John McClanahan]

A blade with a "triple chip grind" has a right chisel, left chisel and flat top tooth configuration.


John

[Mike Nguyen]

I use Ridge Carbide TS2000 and 5 out of the 40 teeth are flat.
Mike

[Mike Dowell]

interesting. I didn't realize there were blades which had flat teeth AND right and left chisel blades. Guess I need to figure out if I'm willing to swap out blades for different jobs. Thank you for all the input!

[Prashun Patel]

In theory it affects the cleanness of The cut vs an ftg. Like you I use my regular blades for dados and grooves but I don't think that's the general intended purpose of those blades.

Excuse to get a shoulder plane!!!

[John Lanciani]

A blade with a "triple chip grind" has a right chisel, left chisel and flat top tooth configuration.


John

Actually no, what you describe is an alternate top bevel with raker (ATB-R). A triple chip grind has teeth with both corners ground off alternating with flat top teeth. Here is a good description; http://www.ereplacementparts.com/article/2337/Saw_Blades_101.html

http://www.metallin.co.uk/shop/image/data/triple-chip-grind1.jpg

[Allan Speers]

There's also a lot of good info on the Cardbide Processor's website:

http://www.carbideprocessors.com/Carbide-Processors/Worlds-Best-Saw-Blades/

I highly recommend these guys, if you want to buy "the good stuff." Their own brand & Tenryu are both really excellent. Industrial grade carbide, etc.

[Mike Dowell]

There's also a lot of good info on the Cardbide Processor's website:

http://www.carbideprocessors.com/Carbide-Processors/Worlds-Best-Saw-Blades/

I highly recommend these guys, if you want to buy "the good stuff." Their own brand & Tenryu are both really excellent. Industrial grade carbide, etc.

How do you stack them up against Forest?

[Justin Ludwig]

If you're willing to spend the money, you buy a World's Greatest blade from Carbide Processors and and never look back. I gave my buddy my 10" WWII after switching. It's a good blade, but not CP quality. Tell Tom the material you cut and he'll recommend the blade. I own 3 CP blades, 2 for my TS and 1 for my RAS. I'll buy another soon for my miter saw once the 12" WWII dulls (I'll resharpen and have it on standby).

[Mike Dowell]

If you're willing to spend the money, you buy a World's Greatest blade from Carbide Processors and and never look back. I gave my buddy my 10" WWII after switching. It's a good blade, but not CP quality. Tell Tom the material you cut and he'll recommend the blade. I own 3 CP blades, 2 for my TS and 1 for my RAS. I'll buy another soon for my miter saw once the 12" WWII dulls (I'll resharpen and have it on standby).


Really? I'll have to check them out. I've never heard of them and it always seemed like the Forest WWII
the Defacto blade for a table saw.

[ian maybury]

The point about the ATB tip on a universal blade (:) not a pun) is that as the other thread it (by virtue a self scoring action at each side of the kerf) cross cuts and also cuts very cleanly on stuff like melamine coated particle board and across the grain of the top veneer on ply.

ATB wears more quickly, but going for a top quality blade (Leitz/Tenryu etc) with good carbide heads this off to a decent degree. ATB is a little compromised in rip cuts too, but the fairly wide tooth spacing on a universal mean it's not bad...

[David Pascoe]

I use Ridge Carbide TS2000 and 5 out of the 40 teeth are flat.
Mike

I have a flat top blade and it is styled as a "SAFETY RIP" but it is the scariest blade in my entire collection with a propensity for kickback that makes me fearful to use it. Your 5/40 Ridge sounds like just the solution for my occasional need for flat bottom kerfs without great trepidation every time I use it.

[glenn bradley]

Guess I need to figure out if I'm willing to swap out blades for different jobs.

You don't eat peas with a knife or soup with a fork. Purpose specific blades are an easy way to elevate your craft. For flat bottom grooves in difficult stock I have a custom blade. custom blades are available for about the same price (sometimes less) than off the rack items so I would get what you want. I just beat the drum for Carbide Processors in another thread and don't mean to harp but, our member Tom Waltz and his folks make an outstanding product.

[Mike Dowell]

If you're willing to spend the money, you buy a World's Greatest blade from Carbide Processors and and never look back. I gave my buddy my 10" WWII after switching. It's a good blade, but not CP quality. Tell Tom the material you cut and he'll recommend the blade. I own 3 CP blades, 2 for my TS and 1 for my RAS. I'll buy another soon for my miter saw once the 12" WWII dulls (I'll resharpen and have it on standby).

These are nice looking blades. I want a full kerf - .125. Any recommendations on the actual model to look at? Those combination blades seem nice, but to be completely honest(which I always am), I know very little about saw blades.:o

[Mark W Pugh]

These are nice looking blades. I want a full kerf - .125. Any recommendations on the actual model to look at? Those combination blades seem nice, but to be completely honest(which I always am), I know very little about saw blades.:o

From an earlier post from Carbide Processors:



You already get 10% off for being smart enough to be a Creeker.

Jo
Carbide Processors
800 346-8274
emgt@carbideprocessors.com

Check them out. Great team of people.

[Justin Ludwig]

I wanted a glue line rip blade for solid stock, a tear-out free blade for plywood - both 10", and a 12" RAS blade with negative hook. I looked on their site and couldn't find the 2 table saw blades at equal kerf (.125), so I custom ordered them. Didn't cost more. I've ran hundreds upon hundreds of ply sheets thru the 10"x80" tooth he built me and it still cuts without tear-out and no scoring blade. The 10" x 30T glue line rip has ripped I-don't-know-many-thousands of lineal feet of hickory, maple, alder, poplar, QSWO, walnut, etc and still feels like its gonna cut me when I pick it up off the nail. I run them on a 3hp Powermatic TS.

The order form has both blades listed as "custom blade".

Plywood blade cost me $140. Glue line rip was $86.50. Purchase was made 22 months ago (12/10/2013).

[Rod Sheridan]

These are nice looking blades. I want a full kerf - .125. Any recommendations on the actual model to look at? Those combination blades seem nice, but to be completely honest(which I always am), I know very little about saw blades.:o

Hi Mike, I would suggest that your average woodworker needs 4 blades.

An 80 tooth ATB for crosscut

A 24 tooth full kerf rip blade for ripping (Buy one with chip limitation for increased safety) This is the blade that does all breakdown of rough solid wood in my shop, into pieces that are ready to be sawn, jointed and planed to component pieces. I have a sliding table saw so it straight line rips and crosscuts rough material safely.

An 80 tooth TCG (Triple chip grind) for particle board

A combination blade, Maybe 40 tooth for when you're just hacking around and don't want to change blades.

I happen to like FS Tools blades, and they're made about 10 Km from where I live.

Just like any machine, a saw needs the correct tool for the specific job, purpose built blades perform far better than do it all blades.........................Regards, Rod.

[Prashun Patel]

I'm going to take a contrarian approach here. I hate changing blades on my bandsaw and tablesaw.

To that end, I've done my last couple projects with a 30 t ripping blade - for EVERYTHING.

A lot of ripping blades have an FTG, which makes it a decent choice for speed tenons, and grooves.

They rip thick stock with more ease than the gp or combo blades @ 40-50t.

Most importantly, they make passable cross cuts. I almost never get tear out on the show side. If both sides will be showing, then if I really care, a little painters tape on the underside, and a decent ZCI and aux miter fence or sled will take care of it.

If you're doing a lot of melamine and sheet goods, then the tearout can be problematic. But if you're working mostly in hardwood, and frequently going thick, then IMHO, one can get by just fine with a nice ripping blade.

[Mike Dowell]

Just ordered http://www.carbideprocessors.com/combination-saw-blade-10-dia-50t-125-kerf-5-8-arbor-worlds-best-37102/

Can't wait!
(http://www.carbideprocessors.com/combination-saw-blade-10-dia-50t-125-kerf-5-8-arbor-worlds-best-37102/)

[Justin Ludwig]

Good all around blade. Let us know how you like it.