Cap iron squirms on Stanley 78

[Tom Jones III]

I've got an old Stanley 78 that I've never used because I can't get it to work. I bought the Stanley new, about 10 years ago before I knew anything about hand tools. When I couldn't get it to work I threw it in a box and forgot about it. Well, I'd like to have it working now and I thought I would give it one more try before spending the money on a new plane.

When I position the iron and tighten the cap iron, the cap iron simply slides up the iron until it pops off. If I leave the cap iron loose enough that it stays on, then the iron is too loose and it is unusable. Does anyone have an idea on how to fix this?

[Pedro Reyes]

I've got an old Stanley 78 that I've never used because I can't get it to work. I bought the Stanley new, about 10 years ago before I knew anything about hand tools. When I couldn't get it to work I threw it in a box and forgot about it. Well, I'd like to have it working now and I thought I would give it one more try before spending the money on a new plane.

When I position the iron and tighten the cap iron, the cap iron simply slides up the iron until it pops off. If I leave the cap iron loose enough that it stays on, then the iron is too loose and it is unusable. Does anyone have an idea on how to fix this?

Not sure why this is happening, only thing I can ask is, you are tightening the cap iron with the thumb screw (towards top) and not the regular screw (which needs screwdriver) correct?. The screw (which is towards the middle, should be tight enough to allow the cap iron to be inserted with ease while the thumb screw is mostly backed out, yet not too loose that you need more than say 1/2 turn from the thumb screw to start applying pressure. If that screw is set like that, and you can't get the thumb screw to apply pressure and hold the cap iron in place, maybe a picture of said cap iron would help.

Pedro

[Tony Zaffuto]

Make sure there is no paint/japanning under the cap iron or where the blade beds. If that doesn't help, make sure the proper screw is installed.

[Richard Line]

I've got a recent 78, newer than yours. The 2 responses above pretty much have the explanation I would give. The only 2 bits I'll add are : 1) the middle screw (with driver slot) acts as the fulcrum as the thumb screw is tighten forcing the cap iron to bear against the blade near the cutting edge, and 2) clean off all of the paint from the cap iron where it bears on the blade try to make a tight fit between the blade and the cap iron at that point (e.g. no light) and at least make sure the paint under the blade is flat and maybe a little less smooth (more friction).

Hope this helps. I've got mine working well, but the operator needs more work.

[Jim Koepke]

Just adding my 322526.

The underside of the head on the screw holding the lever cap in place should have a conical shape. The large circular area of the keyhole cutout in the lever cap should have a countersunk shape. This is what keeps the cap from sliding once all the adjustments are set.

My guess is either the wrong screw is in place or more likely the paint is built up in the countersunk area where the screw is supposed to seat.

jtk

[Robert Engel]

I've got an old Stanley 78 that I've never used because I can't get it to work. I bought the Stanley new, about 10 years ago before I knew anything about hand tools. When I couldn't get it to work I threw it in a box and forgot about it. Well, I'd like to have it working now and I thought I would give it one more try before spending the money on a new plane.

When I position the iron and tighten the cap iron, the cap iron simply slides up the iron until it pops off. If I leave the cap iron loose enough that it stays on, then the iron is too loose and it is unusable. Does anyone have an idea on how to fix this?Yup: http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=69851&cat=1,41182,41192&ap=1

I would check to see if the screw is correctly seating and/or is even the correct screw (good luck finding one if it isn't).

I have one and its a bugger bear to keep set so I never use it use my 45 instead.

Bottom line its really not a quality tool so don't expect much even if you get this figured out.

[Tom Jones III]

Sorry for the slow response, between a child's birthday party and Wed night Bible study I didn't get a chance to get in the workshop last night.

Just going from memory, I'm betting that the answer is Jim's "or more likely the paint is built up in the countersunk area " I remember looking at the plane and wondering if I had a bad casting because it could never work. Paint buildup makes more sense. The other likely answer is Robert's "Bottom line its really not a quality tool so don't expect much".

Between the time I threw it in a box years ago and now, I've started learning to love hand tools and been spoiled by the quality of Lie-Nielsen hand planes. I suspect that even if/when I get the Stanley working then I'll throw it back in the box and buy the Veritas rabbet plane.

[steven c newman]

Happen to have a Stanley MADE for Wards (minty) that I use all the time. I rely more on the thumbscrew at the top to keeps things in place. The bolt with the slot is more of a reference as to where the iron starts at. I use it more when resetting the iron back in after a hone. Then tighten down the thumbscrew to keep it there...

Robert is more concerned about selling a certain brand name than adjusting other's planes to work as they are intended.

have yet to have the cap iron move around on mine..
322538
YMMV
322539
Vintage Mards Master Quality by Stanley.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Sorry for the slow response, between a child's birthday party and Wed night Bible study I didn't get a chance to get in the workshop last night.

Just going from memory, I'm betting that the answer is Jim's "or more likely the paint is built up in the countersunk area " I remember looking at the plane and wondering if I had a bad casting because it could never work. Paint buildup makes more sense. The other likely answer is Robert's "Bottom line its really not a quality tool so don't expect much".

Between the time I threw it in a box years ago and now, I've started learning to love hand tools and been spoiled by the quality of Lie-Nielsen hand planes. I suspect that even if/when I get the Stanley working then I'll throw it back in the box and buy the Veritas rabbet plane.



First, don't be so quick to classify this plane as not a quality tool: it may not be a Veritas or a LN, but it still can be a good worker. The tool is a very simple tool, with an uncomplicated adjuster. As I mentioned previously, check for paint build-up and the proper screw (make sure, if a round head is needed or a bevel head). Either way, since this isn't an expensive tool, if you need to replace the screw, simply drill out the existing hole and tap for a screw from the local hardware. A 78 does one job, and it does it pretty well, once you figure out how to hold your tongue correctly!

[Jeff Bartley]

Tom--I'll be the third to say that the 78 is a great tool when set up and used properly. I have an old one that, once we were properly aquainted, has earned it's keep in my kit. Mine works best with the nicker rotated out of the way FWIW. Don't give up!

[Tom Jones III]

Thanks for the encouragement to keep working on this plane. I did manage to get it working last night. I fiddled with the position of the front screw and different position of the cap iron screw and eventually found a way to keep it in place.

However, I'm still confused. My cap iron does not have an indention for the bevel head screw. How will this ever work? Is it possible that some of these planes use a flat screw paired with a flat cap iron while some of these planes use a bevel head screw paired with a cap iron that has an indention?

322613

When I tighten the flat cap iron it simply slides up the bevel headed screw. Here is a short video of it sliding when I tighten the cap iron
https://www.dropbox.com/s/my10bgmuz5x4tt0/capiron.mov?dl=0

[Nicholas Lawrence]

The video helps a lot. It looks to me like an issue with the screw as Jim and others have already mentioned. I have never had anything remotely resembling that issue with mine. I would add my encouragement not to give up on it, as once you get it running it is pretty handy. If the usual suspects don't get you squared away today I will look at mine when I get home from work and see if I can spot anything that may help you. It may be a simple as roughing the top of the slot a little bit with sandpaper, or perhaps replacing the screw.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Thanks for the encouragement to keep working on this plane. I did manage to get it working last night. I fiddled with the position of the front screw and different position of the cap iron screw and eventually found a way to keep it in place.

However, I'm still confused. My cap iron does not have an indention for the bevel head screw. How will this ever work? Is it possible that some of these planes use a flat screw paired with a flat cap iron while some of these planes use a bevel head screw paired with a cap iron that has an indention?

322613

When I tighten the flat cap iron it simply slides up the bevel headed screw. Here is a short video of it sliding when I tighten the cap iron
https://www.dropbox.com/s/my10bgmuz5x4tt0/capiron.mov?dl=0

You may want to use a countersink to place a bevel on the cap iron where the screw mates. Won't take a lot to help, and don't be afraid of hurting the value of the plane-it's only a tool. Fact is, I had to do something similar, about a decade ago to my LN bevel up jack plane.

[Jim Koepke]

One of these days I am going to have to upgrade my OS. Currently Dropbox doesn't play on my computer.

The slot for the screw on your lever cap looks very short. I would maybe file it a little longer and then as Tony mentioned use a countersink to make a seat for the screw.

jtk

[steven c newman]

A few from my Wards #78
322658
On both bolts, under the round top, it is flat.
322659
Under the cap iron, no paint
322660
No counter-sink.
322661
Tightening is done with the knurled knob at the top. The bolt is set to just hold the cap long enough to then tighten and adjust.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I just looked at mine, while watching your video. I am not going to post pictures because I think Steven pretty much covered it. My cap is also flat. There is no counter-sink for the lower screw.

On mine the lower screw is extended about twice as far as yours is in the video. In watching your video it looked to me like backing the lower screw out a couple of turns might change the angle and perhaps make a difference when you tighten the upper screw, but I tried different settings on mine and could not get the the cap to slide. Might be worth trying though before you break out a file.

There are also caps listed on the auction site for about $5 (or someone here may have a spare) if nothing else works.

[Richard Line]

I'll pass on the photos I just took - Steven's do it quite well. My 78 is a late model Stanley, probably the same as your's. As with Steven's, there is no counter sink in the cap iron. It may be the slot in your cap iron isn't long enough, but first I would back the lower screw out some more, as Nicholas suggests. The cap iron needs to be at an angle to the blade so that when the upper screw is tighten it bears on the blade near the edge. The lower screw on mine has worn a very slight countersink in the paint.

[Ray Bohn]

This is a totally different application, but the results were the same. I had a new Stanley Sweetheart block plane that did the same thing when I tightened the cap iron. It slid up. When I checked my cap iron with another new one, my cap iron was bent from overtightening or just bent from manufacturer.