Experiences with Dewalt NiCad vs Li Ion batteries

[julian abram]

In our lab/shop areas at work for several years we have run Dewalt drills with 14.4v & 18v NiCad batteries. We did a little up grade back in May/June purchasing the newer Dewalt drills with 20v Li Ion batteries. At first we thought these newer units were the cat's meow being lighter, more compact with great power. Now after running them lightly for a few months 3 of the 6 batteries will barely hold a charge. We might get 5 minutes operation time out these. Those old Ni Cad batteries are probably 5 years old and still work great. As matter of fact I have some Dewalt 18v NiCads at home that are probably 7 or 8 years old and still work great. Now I'm wondering if we shouldn't go back to Ni Cad for future purchases. What your experience with these newer Dewalt batteries?

[Greg Hines, MD]

My comparison would be the old Ryobi and Makita 18v and 12v NiCad batteries vs the Dewalt 18v Li-ion batteries, and between those two, the Dewalts are significantly better. My NiCads have finally given up on me, so I don't even bother with them any longer. But when that was all I had, they never lasted for very long, while the Dewalts will last for a couple of hours on a charge.

Doc

[Art Mann]

There is one thing to remember if you want Lithium ion batteries to last a long time. They benefit greatly from being topped off whenever an opportunity presents itself. Discharging them all the way will wear them out quickly. They are not like NiCd batteries, which develop a memory and won't take a full charge unless they are run almost flat every once in a while.

[Dan Hahr]

I also have a new 20v Dewalt. I'm disappointed with the new one's vs the 18v NiCd. My old ones are probably 8 years old and still last for a significant amount of time before I have to charge them. I can already tell that the 20v are loosing their run time. They are also not as powerful as the 18v. For one, the weight of the bigger battery gives you much more torque when driving long deck screws. Secondly, even set to the drill mode, I still feel the clutch slipping when trying to max out the torque.

I do like the little one for little stuff, but I don't think the batteries will last long enough to make it worthwhile.

Dan

[Reinis Kanders]

You probably have the smaller batteries, look at the Ah rating, that is all that matters as long as the discharge rate is the same. Dewalt I think has a variety of 20V battery sizes in Ah, more Ah, means more cells thus physically larger battery pack.

[John Ziebron]

I have used Dewalt 18 volt tools for many years and currently have about 9 tools using the 18 volt battery. And originally I've always bought the higher power XRP batteries which are NiCad. They would last a few years but you could tell that as time went on they didn't last as long. Then I discovered aftermarket NiMH batteries which were not only cheaper than the Dewalt batteries but you could ones that were 3.3 Ampere Hours which was 50% more power than the XRP batteries. Then about 3 years ago I bought a couple of Dewalt Li Ion batteries and was impressed with the power, lighter weight and the fact that this type battery holds it's voltage until the very end. Art is correct in that you don't really want to discharge these batteries completely but sometimes it happens. I was so impressed with this technology that I bought a couple more Li Ion batteries but aftermarket ones this time. I can't say enough good things about them. But if you switch to Li Ion batteries be aware that you need a charger different than the ones that are only for NiCad. The Dewalt chargers that have yellow plastic tops are capable of charging both type batteries. BTW, 4 of my 18 volt tools are drills and with the NiCad batteries especially they are heavy. Then I discovered the Dewalt 1/4 inch impact. This tool with a Li Ion battery is probably have the weight of one of my drills with the same battery. And it does a remarkable job of driving screws or drilling with hex shank bits.

[Greg R Bradley]

Interesting, I have a variety of Battery Technologies in a variety of businesses. Makita 7.2 & 9.6v NiCad, Makita 18v LXT Li, Bosch 10.8v aka 12v Max Li, Bosch 24v NiCad, Bosch 36v Li, Dewalt 18v NiCad, Milwaukee 2.4v NiCad, Panasonic 14.4v NiCad. The Dewalt 18v XRP have been consistently the poorest technology, by far.

[Jim Dwight]

My only experience with DeWalt cordless was a long time ago. I had a 9.6V with NiCad that worked well until the batteries gave out. I figured out that B&D 9.6V would work with a little bit of plastic removed and used a couple of those until they gave out. Then I switched to Ryobi 18V and have stuck with that. In the Ryobi, even the little Lithium Ion are much better batteries than the old Ni Cad. They are lighter and last longer. I have 3 and have yet to wear one out. I charge them when I think of it or when they give out (which is sudden and without warning). Two of my 3 have a charge indicator. So for those, I can see where they are and try and charge them before fully depleted. But if the best battery I have has two bars, it gets used while another charges. The batteries get used in a wide variety of cordless tools. Their additional capability really helped the circular saw become a useful tool.

[James Gunning]

My experience with the new Dewalt Li-Ion batteries has been excellent. I bought a new model DCF895 impact driver with 1.5AH batteries over a year ago. The batteries last what seems like forever, and charge quickly. My driver is a brushless one and I understand that technology does make a significant difference in the battery life. I also have an older DeWalt 18v drill that uses the XRP batteries. It works well, but the batteries do not last as long and are much heavier than the Li-Ions in the driver.

I read someplace that high heat degrades battery life, both in use and overall life. Living in Central Florida I keep the batteries and charging station indoors in the A/C. Just the drill bodies live in the hot garage.

[Greg Hines, MD]

One other issue on this. While I would never recommend Ryobi as a company, they do have one curious thing they are doing. Their Li-Ion replacement batteries will fit their older Ni-Cad tools. On a whim, I got some of them, and they seem to work, except for the fact that the batteries themselves do not seem to fit the handle as well as the older ones. This means that you have to jiggle the battery in the tool. Other than that, I was surprised that they worked as well as they did.

I would like to see other companies offering this kind of arrangement.

Doc

[Jim Dwight]

Well I do recommend Ryobi but not for everything they make. I also recommend Harbor Freight for many tools but certainly not for everything. Both companies sell "gems", tools that are worth far more than they cost, and "junk" tools that basically shouldn't be sold. Buying one of the junk variety turns people off and they don't buy the gems. But the 18V cordless tools are, in my mind, in the gem category. My circular saw, jig saw, impact driver and reciprocating saw are all the blue bodies sold with Ni Cd batteries. I have two newer drills that are the bright green color and a brad driver also this color. All use the same 3 lithium ion batteries. I've broken one drill but for the amount I used it and what it cost, I don't consider that a big deal. I was drilling 2 1/8 holes in solid doors when it broke. That's pretty hard duty on a cordless.

I also use my Ryobi BT3100 table saw a lot and consider it a gem, as is my radial arm saw. My R-500 plunge router got sticky and the motor got transferred to my router table. I'm not sure I would call it a gem but it has already given me a lot of good service and still works fine in this application. My brad nailer works great although it's a little picky on being held at the right angle. But I trimmed about 600 ft2 of my house with it.

I think we should be a bit leery of Ryobi but also recognize some of their tools is about like DeWalt, Makita and the other "better" brands. The trick is only buying the good ones - the gems.

[Mike Schuch]

After 3 generations of Dewalt XPR batteries and my last generation coming up dead yet again I switched to third party 18v LithIon batteries for my old XPR tools. After only a month I love them! More power, longer lasting and quicker charging. I did make sure I had a LithIon compatible Dewalt charger. It will be interesting to see if the LithIon will age better than the old Nicad.

My only remaining functioning XPR nicad battery is one I rebuilt with an aftermarket "Extended" kit. I bought a 2 pack of genuine Dewalt XPR batteries at the same time I rebuilt the old pack. I am not overly surprised that the after market rebuild kit lasted longer than the genuine Dewalt.

[Dan Hahr]

What is this third party replacement battery you all are referring to?
Dan

[Rich Engelhardt]

I also use my Ryobi BT3100 table saw a lot and consider it a gem, as is my radial arm saw.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ryobi-radial-arm-saws-recalled-for-blade-detachment-hazard-56026212.html

That RAS have been known to "lose it's head" during use.

[Mike Schuch]

What is this third party replacement battery you all are referring to?
Dan

I purchased 2 of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/231465862832?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The Dewalt branded LiIon batteries (DC9180 / DC9182) are $100+ each I believe. The cells in these are probably not the same quality as the cells in the Dewalt packs but if you look at what the 18650 LiIon cells they use in all these packs actually cost the Dewalt plastic must be worth way more than its weight in gold!

Be Warned... Dewalt makes NiCad only chargers and Nicad / NiMh / LiIon compatible chargers. My old single battery black plastic charger is NiCad only. My newer dual battery yellow plastic charger is Nicad / NiMh / LiIon compatible. Charging a LiIon pack in a NiCad only charger will over charge it and ruin the pack.

I did a fair amount of reading before purchasing these packs. I was originally going to get NiMh packs but their reviews were pretty bad ( I purchased my yellow dual charger a couple years ago with the purpose of being able to switch to NiMh packs. LiIon packs were absurdly priced at the time so I wasn't considering them initially).

There are a couple of negative traits with LiIon packs. 1) They will discharge completely if left in the extreme cold. i.e. if you leave them in your truck over a -20 degree night they will be dead by morning. 2) Their discharge curve is relatively flat until they are out of juice. i.e. NiCad batteries will slow down over a few screws when there charge is depleted. LiIon packs will run along, drive one screw just fine then die in the middle of driving the next screw. Neither of these are a concern for me but they may be a concern for others.

I was helping screw down a deck and these LiIon packs lasted a lot longer than my NiCad packs. My NiCad packs are pretty worn but I still think these LiIon packs last a lot longer between charges than my NiCads did when they were new.

Did I mention there LiIon as noticeable lighter? My tools (drills / driver / sawzall ) are all still well balanced with these LiIon packs but the tool is noticeable lighter with these mounted meaning less work to lug the tool around. The LiIon packs also run at a slightly higher voltage than NiCad. My understanding is not a high enough voltage to cause an issue with the Dewalt tools but higher enough to notice a bit higher top speed on the tool.

Like I said in my previous post only time will tell what the true value of these packs are but my initial impression is overwhelmingly excellent!

P.S. I am not a pro, I do not use my battery powered tools to make a living. What works great for me may not work as well for someone that is using their drill 8 hours a day 5 days a week.

[Mike Henderson]

I switched from the DeWalt 18V tools to the 20V tools and have not had any problems. I really like the lighter weight of the LiIon tools.

As someone else pointed out, DeWalt makes LiIon batteries with different capacities. If you need long use time, you should get the high capacity batteries. Most of my work is of short duration so the lower capacity batteries work pretty good for me.

Mike