Is this possible with a laser?

[Dave Hutton]

Great information on here thanks guys but here's a newbie question that I couldn't find an answer for.

I,m contemplating the purchase of a laser to add to my embroidery and printing business and have identified a few things that I currently do which may well be possible and quicker with a laser so all good so far. There are a few things I've been asked for which I'll be able to say yes to now as well.

i also do a bit of sandblasting onto glass but mainly metal products and have understood the laser mask system which I can adhere to a product, cut the design on a laser and then sandblast - sounds great and will cut down a lot of time making masks especially one offs. I currently use vinyl cut on a plotter or the type you expose to light.

my question is - is there a product of a way of making a mask (with the laser cutter) 'before' its applied to a piece of glass/metal. For the times when it's not cylindrical or too big or curved to work direct on the laser?

I'm thinking maybe a laser safe vinyl or similar with carrier sheet applied, and reverse cut the design, or maybe just cut away the vinyl that's not required (from the top) then use an adhesive transfer sheet as usual to avoid the weeding? Would a laser be accurate enough on depth to do this?

apologies if this has been asked before or if it's a totally stupid question :-)

I've seen a product called Trolase lights which appears to be able to to be kiss cut after etching a design so figured a laser should be accurate enough to do what I was thinking, just need to be able to cut a design into something but still leave the remaining parts on a removable carrier sheet.

Any suggestions I'd be obliged.

I'm in the UK but I assume that any USA based products should be obtainable here though the right channels.

As mentioned earlier I don't currently have a laser but I'm investigating purchase and the more it can do for me from the start the better.

thanks

DJ

[Bill Reibelt]

I have used a thin sheet of rubber with a water soluble glue before. Used to cut out template for sand blasting onto marble for head stones.
Cut the design on your vynal cutter and weed the parts not required, stick onto the item and sand blast then wash off with water. Most places that sell rubber for making stamps will have this.
Bill

[Dave Hutton]

Thanks for the reply Bill - although I can already do that. I'm trying to avoid the weeding aspect of the job when using vinyl.
Dj

[John Bion]

Hi Dave.
I am also in the UK. “The Glass Scribe”, in Scotland, stock “Rayzist” Sandblasting equipment/masking material. They carry a Lasermask film for making masks on the laser for sandblasting. I have not tried the film but perhaps they would let you have a trial bit if you contacted them. I have only used the Rayzist photoresist film (SR 3000) from them, which has been great. They have been a pleasant company to deal with to cap it all.
Welcome to this great forum and kind regards,
John

PS: Whereabouts are you located?

[Dave Hutton]

Hi John

Thanks for the reply - I saw they had the film you apply and then laser but I wanted something I could cut 'before' I apply it to the product.

I think I have answered my own question in that I can get a polyester based vinyl which should work assuming the laser depth is accurate enough. I've seen it on Youtube working so all good.

Also found some polyester based garment vinyl (and flock) which 'should' also work, and as I'm in the middle of cutting and weeding 1000 plus flock logos ! that could be a good thing.

Just need to get some and get it sampled by a laser machine supplier before I press the button.

Anybody done this and found it successful?

I'm based in Dorset John

DJ

[John Bion]

HI Dave,
Yup, ‘Apply-laser-blast’ would not work for me either; had not realised that that was how it worked.
Hope you come right, weeding is not fun.
Have a great day.
John

[Sarah Ford]

Hi Dave,

We just added a sandblaster to our bag of tricks and one of our requirements was being able to cut the mask on our existing laser. if you're engraving on natural stone with a rough surface I would look into Anchor 116, and for smooth surfaces and wood I would try Anchor 115. I'm not sure of the availability in the UK, but these products seems to be the answer to laser cutting masks in the US. I know this has come up before, so you might want to do a few forum searches for laser cutting sandblasting mask.

[Mike Null]

Dave

I've done what you want to do as a matter of routine. Take the laserable vinyl or polyester and use a spray adhesive to adhere it to a flat piece of scrap metal which you can lay on the bed of the laser.

Play with your settings until you find the one that will remove the image without burning the carrier. Cover that with a transfer material--I used contact paper and lift it off the carrier. Be sure to remove it slowly and make sure you're lifting all the tiny pieces like the inside of "o"s and "p"s. They can be difficult to transfer and difficult to adhere to the glass. Patience!!

I used this method on cylindrical or round objects. The flat ones can be done in the laser then blasted.

[Dave Hutton]

Thanks for the replies - sounds like that box is now ticked then :)

Mike that sounds ideal - just need to find the right vinyl and we are good to go.Sounds like it'll be just as fiddly to apply but if I can get rid of the weeding then I'll be a happy chap and much easier for the one off bit or work.

Have been talking to a couple of users here in UK and it sounds like my other 'projects' will work equally as well so all good.

Just need to get a machine installed, climb the learning curve and away we go (we'll see how that goes:rolleyes:)

Thanks for the Anchor film suggestion Sarah - I believe thats available here so will be worth a look at, my usual supplier has something similar (they used to stock anchor but looks liked they have changed suppliers)

DJ

[Dave Sheldrake]

John B is a good guy Dave :) (when he's not breaking stuff) ;)

[John Bion]

John B is a good guy Dave :) (when he's not breaking stuff) ;)

That remains a point of painful embarrassment Dave :o. A note to everyone else: ensure that your flow sensor cable is plugged in before using your brand new tube :eek:
I am in recovery now...:)

[Dave Hutton]

Dave

I've done what you want to do as a matter of routine. Take the laserable vinyl or polyester and use a spray adhesive to adhere it to a flat piece of scrap metal which you can lay on the bed of the laser.


Anyone know what this might be called in the UK as I'm drawing a bit of a blank, the 'polyester' vinyl turned out to have pvc in it when the data sheet was consulted.

cheers

dj

[Mayo Pardo]

Are you planning to use the laser to raster the image in the masking?
If so, it would be faster to just cut and weed with your existing equipment.
Even a Trotec laser would be slower than most new vinyl cutters if you are rastering the image.

On the other hand if you use the laser to vector cut the image, I don't see the advantage either. You would still have to weed the unwanted parts.
Am I misunderstanding how you want to do the designs?

[Dave Hutton]

I'm only talking about using it for stuff with fine detail which is a pain or virtually impossible to cut and weed, any big and easy to weed bits I'd pull out by hand, just cutting round them. For example imagine the Lord's Prayer on the curved page of a glass book that's approx 4" by 6", not doable directly with a laser (I think) due to the odd curves, not pick able due to the small text and a nuisance to do with a washout media for a one off, granted if it was a 5' tall tombstone with 2" high letters I'd do it with the cutter and hand pick (an unlikely scenario for me mind you :-)

i usually have one or more other things going on that I can do while the laser is burning my workroom down, so out and out speed isn't that crucial.

I might find find that it doesn't pan out exactly how I am thinking, but I'm going to get some samples run at a demo and see how it looks. Seems like others are doing it that way as well as direct onto the item to be sandblasted so it sounds like it's an idea worth trying.

dj

[Dave Sheldrake]

Chris has a 6090 at the show Dave, bigger brother of the 6840

[Dave Hutton]

Chris has a 6090 at the show Dave, bigger brother of the 6840

itll be good to see it operation, especially if he has time to run a couple of the simple samples I've prepared :-) if it'll do my mini label sets then I'll be happy as Larry and anything else is a bonus. I feel a trip up north coming on.

thanks for taking the time Dave - it's appreciated

dj

[Dave Sheldrake]

itll be good to see it operation, especially if he has time to run a couple of the simple samples I've prepared :-) if it'll do my mini label sets then I'll be happy as Larry and anything else is a bonus. I feel a trip up north coming on.

thanks for taking the time Dave - it's appreciated

dj

Tell him I said he has to do your samples ;) actually..I'll call him tomorrow and tell him :):)

[Dave Hutton]

Update - I found the material to use, just need to get it test cut by HPC to be sure works (don't see any reason why not as similar thickness material cut fine)

funnily enough I already had a box of stuff I use for something else. It's a polyester based product designed for printing on really but seems ideal for the job - if it works then happy days!

still awaiting calls back from distributors from last week so glad I found it myself :)