Delta dl 40, bought at auction, it is missing controller, need advice

[cody michael]

Delta dl 40, bought at auction, it is missing the controller, need advice, it has a DC 1.25hp motor. and I believe 1x8 spindle. I have looked around for a controller, on another forum they said this controller

http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/BALDOR-BC140/

would work, but its 225$ For around that price I can just buy a 3 phase motor and vfd.

question one, is there a comparable controller I could buy for well under a 100$?

question two, what is the biggest motor I could use with risking damage to the lathe? could I use a 3 hp? it can do a 24 inch bowl on the left side of the head (outboard?)

I'll post pictures shortly

[cody michael]

I found a baldor 3 phase motor for sale locally, guy said he would take 75$ I can get a 2 or 3 hp, would the lathe handle a 3 hp?

[David Walser]

Yes, the lathe will handle 3 hp. Whether you need that much hp is another question.

[cody michael]

My current lathe is under powered, and i dont want that issue, on the outboard side it can do a 24 in bowl, the g0766 has a 3 hp and is 22 in bowl, that is where I got 3 hp from, i want enough power to turn a bigger bowl. And I think the guy who has the 2 HP and 3 hp is selling them for same price, is there any reason why not to go 3 hp?


With a 1 inch spindle do I need to be careful to not bend it making a bigger bowl?

[cody michael]

here are some pictures I also got this lathe tool rest and faceplates that I believe go to powermatic lathes, the don't fit what I have, any idea on what they are worth? hopefully they can help pay for my motor

[William C Rogers]

Cody, those do look like PM 90 parts. PM 90 uses 1 1/2-8 threads. If the post on the tool rest is 1 1/8 it is for the PM 90. I sent a PM about it.

[Bob Bergstrom]

[QUOTE=cody michael;2471183]My current lathe is under powered, and i dont want that issue, on the outboard side it can do a 24 in bowl, the g0766 has a 3 hp and is 22 in bowl, that is where I got 3 hp from, i want enough power to turn a bigger bowl. And I think the guy who has the 2 HP and 3 hp is selling them for same price, is there any reason why not to go 3 hp?
i believe there is quite a price difference between the 2 and 3 hp inverters. Someone will know. I had a 1" Old Delta 450 that I turned outboard 24". It was only 1 hp so things were a little more gentle and stallable I would imagine the outboard side is a single row bearing. That will probably fail before the spindle. There may be a question if the belt system can deliver full power of a 3 hp motor without squieling. The sheet metal stand will waggle when you turn a large unbalanced blank outboard.When you start to turn big the budget goes up. Bigger tools, bigger chainsaw and possibly bandsaw.

[charlie knighton]

want enough power to turn a bigger bowl.

the outside edge of a bowl is traveling at a greater speed than the core or inside of the bowl.........the bigger dimension of the bowl the faster the outside is running compared to the inside core of the bowl.......generally, if you have a rpm speed that is the speed of the spindle not the outside of the bowl

some of the demostrators and other turners turn at a very fast pace but from your question maybe you should keep the speed to a lower level when first turning......a catch on a large piece can be life changing

speed and torque are different things

[cody michael]

do motors lose power at lower speeds? everything I can see the cost to me is the same for 2 vs 3 hp. if I am turn at low speed for a larger bowl will a 2 hp have enough power or would I be better off with the 3 hp. I don't want to over power the lathe, but with the cost being the same, what are the cons to 3hp?

[David Walser]

Assuming the cost of both the motor and appropriate VFD is the same, go with the 3 hp. Usually, a VFD for a 3 hp motor is more expensive than one for a 2 hp motor.

And, yes, a motor typically produces less torque at slower speeds. Some VFDs can compensate for this for brief periods of time. The worst thing about running a motor at reduced speed is that the cooling fan also runs at lower speed. Run for long periods at slow speed, some motors will overheat. So, depending on the type of controller, where your motor is mounted (is it already a hot environment?), it may be best to keep your motor at or above 75% of its maximum speed (except for brief periods). During the summers here in Arizona, my motor will overheat if I crank the speed down for an extended period of time -- like when I'm sanding. That's not a problem in the winter. Fortunately, my lathe has 6-speed ranges. The lowest has a max speed of 370 rpms. So, in summer, I move the belt to the slowest pulley when sanding.

[cody michael]

could you avoid this with extra fans? ex. place a small computer fan type fan on the motor and one on the enclosure to keep it cool?

[cody michael]

the controller part I am missing is the part with the buttons that turn it on, start stop etc. It still has a controller board in it. could I figure out a way to have the buttons, start stop fast slow for cheaper then buying the whole controller? sorry if I'm not making much sense I have no experience with this type of motor

[charlie knighton]

do motors lose power at lower speeds

yes and no........I have 2 belt positions on my lathe
the high speed range position (0-3200rpm) provides maximum speed
the low speed range position (0-1200) will provide maximum torque

generally you will rough out on the low speed range and then change over to high speed for finishing cut
note both will run 1200 rpm......I rarely take it off low speed range except for finals and xmas ornaments

[cody michael]

I see some people use treadmill motors for this application, I saw this treadmill locally for 100$ maybe I could get it for 50-75, if so would the controller off the treadmill work with a the treadmill motor to do what I need done?

http://saginaw.craigslist.org/sgd/5232249910.html

[charlie knighton]

I am not the one to ask about reengineering a lathe

I would ask you to cut out various sizes piece of cardboard some 6 inches wide some 24 inches wide some in between.......then take those pieces into your living room and dining room and see if you can fit then on tables, bookcases, biscuit domejig etc

[cody michael]

I sold the powermatic tool rest, if anyone is interested in the faceplates let me know, I need to pay for my new motor some how

[David Walser]

the controller part I am missing is the part with the buttons that turn it on, start stop etc. It still has a controller board in it. could I figure out a way to have the buttons, start stop fast slow for cheaper then buying the whole controller? sorry if I'm not making much sense I have no experience with this type of motor

I'm not sure what you mean by "controller board". A variable frequency drive (VFD) allows you to run a 3-phase motor off of a single phase circuit. Most homes in the US have single phase power, so you need a VFD to run a 3-phase motor. The VFD and the motor need to be compatible with each other. A VFD for a 1.5 hp motor (most likely) will not provide enough power to run a 3 hp motor. So, if you're planning on using the existing controller (and, assuming the controller is a VFD) you need to be sure it has the capacity to drive the motor you're buying. Some motors are single phase. The VFDs for these motors are not compatible with 3-phase motors.

In addition to the VFD, you (typically) need switches to control the VFD. Typically, these switches are power (on/off), start (or run), stop, and speed. Some VFDs incorporate these switches, but for a lathe you'd typically want switches that are connected to the VFD with wires. This allows you to install the VFD where it's protected from bumps and dust. The kind and number of switches you'll need depends on the VFD that you have.

In summary, you need to know what kind of controller you have before you can know what type of motor and switches to buy. HTH.

[David Walser]

One more thing to consider: Lathes do NOT need a lot of horsepower. An underpowered table saw makes you slow down the cut, causing burning. That's not a problem with a lathe. If you stall the lathe, just take a smaller cut. It'll take a little less time to finish a project, but not a lot. So, if you find that your existing controller will not work with a 3 hp motor, it's not the end of the world. A 1.5 hp motor will allow you to turn a 22-inch bowl.

Obviously, things would be different if you were a production turner. For production work, more hp might save enough time to pay for itself. When you get that point, you can upgrade the lathe or buy another with more capacity.

[Malcolm McLeod]

David, I believe the thread starting post said existing motor is DC (not AC), so either Cody needs replacement DC controller - - or junk any remaining electrical gear and DC motor, then replace with AC motor and VFD.

Cody, I am not much help with DC-anything, but were it mine, I'd go AC. If not you'll be facing this AC/DC repair/replace dilemma again. Perhaps sooner than later, depending on the 'life experiences' of any previously used replacement DC controller. Even if you burn up a VFD in a year, its still easier to find and afford another VFD.

Others can hopefully, provide insight on how much HP is too much. (...Wait! Is it even possible to have too much Hp?)

Edit - Short term, you might get lucky and find a suitable DC controller at very low cost, but if life expectancy isn't very high, it may be false economy...?

[cody michael]

The current motor is a 1.25 DC motor, which has an electronic speed controller, the part of the controller with all the switches is missing, it still has a circuit board in the back of the lathe, what I was asking is if was possible.to still use that controller or if it needed to match exactly the missing part.


When I said buy a 3 hp motor I am going to get a matching vfd for it, I was thinking this vfd
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-2KW-3HP-7A-220VAC-SINGLE-PHASE-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-INVERTER-VSD-VFD/130633905251?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D33421%26meid%3D37414bdf9ba1439e8d62db2d4464 0056%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26mehot%3D pp%26sd%3D131611396773



If there is someone on here who is knowledgeable about lathes and vfds can you pm me your phone number, I would like to talk for a few to make sure I understand things.

[Malcolm McLeod]

The current motor is a 1.25 DC motor, which has an electronic speed controller, the part of the controller with all the switches is missing, it still has a circuit board in the back of the lathe, what I was asking is if was possible.to still use that controller or if it needed to match exactly the missing part....


PM sent.

Again, since this is 'DC', take my opinion with a dose of salt: Suspect what may remain in your "power section" is a voltage regulator and/or AC->DC transformer. The operator interface seems to be what's missing (if I read correctly). To replace just the latter might be feasible, but I'd stick with OEM if its available. Any other controller might have completely different logical states for On/Off/Incr/Decr devices.

If you opted for complete replacement (i.e. a treadmill), I'd probably try to use the entire electrical/motor package. Then you know the transformer matches the controls, controls match regulator, regulator<>transformer, regulator<>motor, etc... Or, make sure you're on familiar terms with your favorite multi-meter.

Edit - DC may be generated from a rectifier rather than a transformer.

[Bob Bergstrom]

Will the 3 hp mother fit in the cabinet? I put a 1 1/2 hp in a Delta 450 and had to saw a hole in the cabinet to accomadate the extra length. Might want to take some measurements?

[cody michael]

Will the 3 hp mother fit in the cabinet? I put a 1 1/2 hp in a Delta 450 and had to saw a hole in the cabinet to accomadate the extra length. Might want to take some measurements?

that my plan for tomorrow morning, I hope it will fit

[Ron Rutter]

The motor on a tread mill is basically the same as you have now. I forget how these DC motors are configured. They may just be an AC/DC motor. Look for a circuit diagram of what you have & go from there. Maybe all you need is an on/off switch & a potentiometer.