What Would You Do?

[Julie Moriarty]

Boy, has this been a learning experience!

We're in Punta Gorda now, staying in a vacation rental. We've been here about 1-1/2 months looking for a house to buy.

For most of my adult life I've dreamed of retiring to a warm climate, a house with a pool and a dock with a sailboat tied to it that I can sail out to open water. Punta Gorda is about the only place in the US that has that within my price range. Barely a day went by when I didn't think however hard it was to work construction, it would one day lead to that dream.

Prices here are starting to climb. But I found that house in a beautiful location. It's an older house ('64) but it's turn key. The owner has taken very good care of it and the view is awesome! - for a canal view.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=321913&d=1442962122

So after decades of working construction and I get this? It's a no-brainer! Right?

Well, here's the rub - that little slice of paradise comes with some very stringent rules.

In a nutshell, if you equal or exceed 50% of the building value for any repairs, alterations, additions, or improvements to the building over any 5-year period, you are required to bring the entire building up to current code. That includes elevation, as determined by the governing bodies. Every older house here doesn't meet today's elevation. Even houses built in the 80's fail.

A storm comes through and does substantial damage. You may have to demolish the house and rebuild to meet code. And there is no insurance policy that will cover that for all homes, especially those that don't meet elevation specs. That beautiful view above is from one of those homes.

So you have two choices:

1. Walk to the nearest tavern and toast the death of a dream

2. Take your chances like so many down here do. And there's a lot here who do.

What would YOU do? This is not advice for me. I just want to know what YOU would do if faced with this dream realized or dream dead scenario.

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

buy the house you want.

insure it out the wazoo.

learn from locals WHAT to expect when a storm comes, and when you should start taking action.

sit back, have a tropical drink with rum - and relax.

[Paul McGaha]

Well Julie,

From reading your posts here on the creek for a few years, you don't strike me as a girl that gives up on something very easily.

PHM

[Steve Peterson]

Go ahead and buy your dream house. It takes a lot of repairs to add up to 50% of the house value, especially if you do them yourself.

Steve

[Wade Lippman]

It really doesn't sound all that dangerous. If the house is in good condition, why would you need extensive repairs? It has gotta be 10:1 against ever having a serious storm.

But if you can't afford to take the loss after a storm, then maybe it is too big a bet. Depends on your finances and how badly you want it.

[Michael Weber]

I wouldn't do it except for the opportunity to make some money reselling the house in a year or so if prices are rising enough. Maybe not even then because of the risk. Boats soon become big holes in the water into which you throw money. Views become just background after a while. Real life intrudes and spoils the dream. Go to the local Pub and have the landlord pull you a pint of his best dark ale.

[charlie knighton]

If the house is in good condition, why would you need extensive repairs?

3 hurricanes hit florida one summer/fall H season.......my sister and husband had to repair roof themselves in between .....lucky to get materials, not enough time to get estimates, get insurance ok, til the next storm........power out part of the time......I thought I was going to have to buy materials up here and take them down....that summer was a mess......3 years later there were still blue tarps in the area

have you looked into recreation vehicule........a lot of trailer courts down there....just be sure to be able to drive away.........florida is hell on air conditioning unites and wood structures

[Kent Adams]

I've lived in Florida, too hot for me. I'd go to Savannah and look around if you want to live on or near the ocean. Generally good weather in the winter and not too terribly hot like Florida in the summer. It's not unusual for the weather to be in the 90's in central Florida in February! Summertime? I hope you like living indoors because that's where you'll spend most of your time. That's what I would do.

[Alan Hick]

What would I do? I would evaluate the risks.

I'm a sailor and I'm retiring to the Florida coast. How much money do I have? How much am I going to spend on my non-code house, that I can't insure the way I could if it was code; and apparently can't afford to bring up to code?

How much can I spend on my boat (Or do I already own one?). How much money can I realistically hope to earn from my woodworking hobby? Do I have any other sources of income?

How's my health? Based on my history, and my family history, what can I reasonably expect in terms of independent longevity?

How much do I need this? Could it happen anywhere else? Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, Mexico, further south?

What about my spouse/partner? Am I counting on them to be a part of this? Are they as committed as I? Do they share my passion? Or not?

Once I had a good handle on my net assets, what I could afford to lose, what I was willing to lose, and what I was unwilling to lose, the decision would make itself.

[Shawn Christ]

I'm not familiar with coastal areas, but homes in river flood hazard areas around here are routinely elevated if substantially damaged or improved. It's a nationwide requirement and just the way it is. Flood insurance is available to anyone through the federal government (NFIP), including homes that aren't elevated, but the lower the structure the more you pay for a policy. Elevating the structure reduces the risk of damage and, hey, it also gives you an even better view. :) And at least in Illinois, if a building has flood insurance and is substantially damaged, insurance will pay to elevate it to meet code.

If it's your dream house and you can afford it, buy it.

[ryan paulsen]

If I've worked my whole life to get into my dream house, it doesn't seem like a good bet to jump on it if it can't be insured for full replacement value. It would really stink to have it all taken away in one fell swoop. When I retire, I'm looking for a sure thing and low stress, and not have to wonder if every tropical storm is going to be the one to wipe me out. Just another flatlander's perspective, although I was living in an extended stay hotel in Tampa the summer of 2004...

[Pat Barry]

I'd go with it and buy the house. Its been there since the 60's afterall. The 50% valuation thing wouldn't bother me.

[Mark Blatter]

buy the house you want.

insure it out the wazoo.

learn from locals WHAT to expect when a storm comes, and when you should start taking action.

sit back, have a tropical drink with rum - and relax.

Make sure you check on insurance ahead of time. There was a big stink a few years ago about all the major companies pulling out of FL.

When they say 50% is that based on current prices, what you paid for it, or something else? Does it include the cost of the lot? If so, you are getting more of a buffer on the rebuild requirement. Some locations the lot is a major part of the value.

[Moses Yoder]

If it was my dream to live in this house, I would grab the dream while I had the chance. I would enjoy every day of it, for however long it lasts. We are never and have never been guaranteed tomorrow.

[Trevor Howard]

I agree with Moses.

Many years ago I got an elite job for the area I lived in in England. This was the type of job people kept until retirement, the company was that good. Then my cousin planted a seed in my head about living in America. I thought long and hard about it. I was talking to a colleague at work about it, and his reply (I was 23 at the time, he was in his mid fifties) "I had a dream like that once but never did it". At that moment I made my decision, and I replied "Well you know what, I am going to do it. If I fail, when I am older and some young person asks me advice, I will say go ahead it never worked out for me but I tried, it may work for you"

Here I am still stateside, bottom line you never know what the future brings and we only get 1 life to live our dreams.

[Jim Creech]

Personally I would not do it. I would not want my boat docked outside my house as it is my escape! My boat is where I go to get away from everyone. Outside my back door would not be far enough. Also, if I were buying a house I would want it in the country or at least on some acreage so as to have some buffer from my neighbors. Not that I am anti social or anything...I just prefer some degree of privacy, peace and quiet.

[Julie Moriarty]

The more I talk to people down here, the more I realize just how much the concept of risk is taken for granted. For many, their attitude is based on "past performance". The last hurricane before Charley hit in 1966. Many people have said this area is relatively safe from hurricanes because of that. But in the 25 years before the '66 hurricane, there were 7 hurricanes that hit or passed very near PG. The confident ones just weren't alive to witness them. I see at is it's not IF a hurricane will hit here, it's WHEN.

Florida has been lucky the past 8 years. Luck always runs out.

Some contractors I've talked to say buildings built in the 60's and 70's here were built like bomb shelters. Still, all it takes is enough wind to remove a roof or enough storm surge to enter your house and that bomb shelter isn't so bomb proof.

I still don't know what we'll do. We've gone back to looking at liveaboard sailboats, just to see if it sparks anything in us. At least we'd know there's a guarantee the money we pour into it will never be seen again. :rolleyes:

[Dean Van Dolsen]

I'd go with it and buy the house. Its been there since the 60's afterall. The 50% valuation thing wouldn't bother me.


What he said.

[roger wiegand]

What would I do? Buy a house on a cool mountain somewhere where it rains enough to minimize the danger of fire. No interest in living somewhere hot. However, in a more serious response, it would be a risk/reward calculation. I'd try pretty hard to live the dream, not doing it only if a bad (as opposed to) worst case scenario resulted in utter disaster. I could take a total loss on most houses most places and not be financially ruined, so though it could be unpleasant I'd take the risk to get what I want. If the potential loss were large enough to leave me a pauper I'd probably choose to rent rather than buy. I'd probably invest the time and money in DIY projects to make the place as hurricane resistant as possible. Nailing in a few extra clips and tie downs to anchor the roof to the walls and the walls to the foundation can make a big difference.

[Sean Troy]

Buy a nice 40-60 boat and live on it. Slip fees wouldn't be any more than property taxes on a house.

[Ole Anderson]

If you finance, most banks will require flood insurance, and recently it has become VERY expensive as FEMA no longer is allowed to subsidize those that choose to live in flood prone areas. My friend in northern MI just added on to his cabin and his bank required them to get flood insurance just because the 30 year old map showed them in the flood plain, which they clearly are not. Cost: $5,000/yr, refundable when they can get a letter of map amendment at a cost of $800.

[Matt Meiser]

Go ahead and buy your dream house. It takes a lot of repairs to add up to 50% of the house value, especially if you do them yourself.

Steve


Not contradicting the first part of your advise. But we've got hail damage at around 16.5%. And that's the value of the house and property it sits on, not the value of the house itself.

[Fred Perreault]

You only live once. Follow your heart, and take life as it happens..... which is probably
what you have done so far and it seems that you have made it this far. But, like some
of the others, I am not a mariner and prefer the privacy of a large wooded area.

[Greg R Bradley]

Buy a nice 40-60 boat and live on it. Slip fees wouldn't be any more than property taxes on a house.
Depends on where. Slip fees on a friends 65' are just about $120,000 per year.

[Pat Barry]

The more I talk to people down here, the more I realize just how much the concept of risk is taken for granted. For many, their attitude is based on "past performance". The last hurricane before Charley hit in 1966. Many people have said this area is relatively safe from hurricanes because of that. But in the 25 years before the '66 hurricane, there were 7 hurricanes that hit or passed very near PG. The confident ones just weren't alive to witness them. I see at is it's not IF a hurricane will hit here, it's WHEN.

Florida has been lucky the past 8 years. Luck always runs out.

Some contractors I've talked to say buildings built in the 60's and 70's here were built like bomb shelters. Still, all it takes is enough wind to remove a roof or enough storm surge to enter your house and that bomb shelter isn't so bomb proof.

I still don't know what we'll do. We've gone back to looking at liveaboard sailboats, just to see if it sparks anything in us. At least we'd know there's a guarantee the money we pour into it will never be seen again. :rolleyes:

Maybe you really don't want the house. No problem, someone else will. For me, I love being on a boat - I just wouldn't want to live in one or sleep on one. WHatcha going to do with the boat if the hurricane comes? You can batten down the hatches at the house and 90+ % the house will be fine. The boat though, are you going to take it out to sea during a oncoming hurricane. That sounds like the definition of risky behavior.

[Tom M King]

The only way to buy a house if it doesn't fill in every wish list box you have to check, is if you can resell it easily. This doesn't seem like it includes a high possibility of quick resale. Storms are getting stronger, and I don't think we've hit the peak yet according to all my scientist friends. Too many ifs. I'd pass.

[Bruce Page]

I have never complained about an opportunity taken, only about opportunities missed.
The house has been standing for 51 years.

[Brian Ashton]

You pays the money and you takes the chance.

Always good reason why houses and cars are cheap - too few people willing to take the risk on.

You also said insurance is pretty much none existent if you get hit by a storm... Is there any insurance at all?

A one in a hundred year storm could happen tomorrow or never in your lifetime...

You only need to ask yourself one question, and answer it honestly. Are you able to recover if you lose everything?

[Mike Null]

If your dream house is within your reach, grab it!

[Larry Frank]

This is a difficult and complex issue. Retirement is not as easy as it sounds. There are many financial issues to take into account. When you are younger and still working, a major loss to a storm could be worked out over years. However, if you are retired, it is a different situation.

If it were me, I would sit down and look at the finances with different scenarios. What would happen if a storm came by and I had a 25%, 50% or 100% loss? How would I handle the loss and what would be my financial situation?

The heart knows one thing but the dollars sometimes knows something else. It would be great to retire to such an idyllic setting but what if....

Retirement has a lot of variables......

[Julie Moriarty]

The wooden stake has been driven through the heart. We just got the "real" price quote on the flood insurance - $6,300. That takes out of qualifying for the loan. Mentally, I was already moved in. We worked out all the other issues but this one knocked us out of the game. The killer is the elevation. And every house built around that time has the same problem. Oh well...

[Mark Blatter]

Sorry to hear that. Perhaps you could look else where in the US, or even outside the country? Could you find a similar setup on a lake?

[Art Mulder]

I have never complained about an opportunity taken, only about opportunities missed.
The house has been standing for 51 years.

Can't argue with the first part of that...

But the second sentence has been echoed by a few people on this thread, and I think you're overlooking something.
Sure the house has stayed put for 50 years, but the ocean hasn't. How much has the sea level risen since 1960? What is the forecast for the next 20+ years? How much elevation is the city/county requiring for new construction? There is a reason for those regulations, and there is a reason that insurance companies charge what they do for insurance. They pay a lot of very smart people a lot of money to figure out stats and probabilities that are way over my head.

Sorry things didn't work out for you, Julie! Hope you find another house that suits!

[Bruce Page]

Art, I'm not saying that you can't improve your odds, you could buy a missile silo in Wyoming if you wanted to. I am saying that it's OK (IMO) to live the dream because there are no guarantees in this life.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Sorry to hear about the difficulties.

In-laws have done Galveston Island for years. Common saying for them has always been, "Buy a house two streets back (from beach). It'll be beachfront before you know it!." Time always seems to prove them right. It's easy to ignore the risks because generally they are rare - - 30-yr flood, 100-yr storm, or a barrier island that has the audacity to MOVE! ...right out from under someone's house. (A 360-deg ocean view is sometimes sort of not always practical.) I'll spare you the boat-in-storm stories as everybody's heard them or got three of their own.

Something to consider, in case you haven't (but bet you have), is that $6300 will buy a fairly nice long stay in someone else's flood-prone, storm-exposed, high-risk, money pit. Every year! Maybe twice!!

Hope things work out.

[Alan Hick]

Not that you need to state it here, but what’s your “plan B”? I’m intrigued by your pursuits and travails, because you sound like an amalgamation of many people I know. And the advice given here has been likewise interesting, because of it’s branched realities.

Following your dream is always nice. But, when you’re young and following your dream, you can screw up, and have time to come up with a different dream. When you’re retiring, there is a different reality. Think of the day we live in. Elder wisdom is a thing of the past. Social Security is a joke. If you don’t have the means to give the world the finger, you are going to be dependent on something or someone, in the off chance that your dreams don’t work out.

I worry about you. Because I think you’ve been caught between what used to be possible and what’s real now. And I feel like I can comment, at least a little bit, on your plans.

I know liveaboards. My wife and I were part of the community years ago. I LOVE sailboats, and I love sailing. The capitals are for a reason. I have studied sailboat design for years. I have a very good feel for what’s what, regardless of the advertising hype. But let’s put this aside.

I have many friends who are liveaboards. But there’s a distinction. Retirees are pretty much exclusively on trawlers and cruisers. There comes a point where going up the mast in a bosun’s chair loses it’s appeal. Younger—let’s say the 30 to 60 year old group, are happy to live on sailboats. But…….and this is a BIG but, they are driven; they have a passion; they could not think of doing anything else. And this does NOT sound like you.
If it was you, you’d already be there.

Again, much of this thread has been “follow your dream”. You know what? I don’t want to pay for your dream. You may be the best person on the planet. You may make Mother Theresa look like a street walker. You may be the most wonderful person who has ever lived. But I don’t want to pay for your mistake.

Here in the USA, we do a crappy job of informing and teaching our young people what it means to be self-sufficient. They are very versed in taking “selfies”. But this is a new rant.

Social security was created for a reason. And it’s essentially insolvent. So, if you want to “follow your dream” you have to do it AT YOUR OWN RISK. If you’re willing to take that risk, and not make anyone else pay for your untoward eventuality, OK. If you’re going to take a risk at retirement, and count on someone else being a safety net, I view that as truly POOR advice, and a truly ridiculous strategy.

I LOVE sailboats. If you pick the right boat, and you’re any kind of sailor, you can weather the most unbelievable storms. The flipside is, if you lack the ability to go aloft in truly adverse conditions, there are a variety of trawlers that you can live aboard comfortably and safely. But I still come back to this: The liveaboard people that I know KNEW that this was what they wanted to do. They didn’t “back into it” because some other option didn’t pan out.

I hope you find your freedom. I hope you realize what you were looking for. But, you sound lost. And I’m sorry for that.

[Rich Enders]

Alan,

Did you read her question? Here it is.

"What would YOU do? This is not advice for me. I just want to know what YOU would do if faced with this dream realized or dream dead scenario".

I personally don't see why she merited such a demeaning lecture?

[Shawn Christ]

Yeah, I don't understand Alan's rant either.

Julie, sorry to hear about the steep quote for flood insurance. I'm not sure what it costs to elevate a home in your neck of the woods but around here $30,000 is a rough start. Could you qualify for the loan if you raise the home up front and spread that construction cost over the life of your loan? That would eliminate the need for flood insurance (or drastically reduce the cost if you still want it). Just a thought. I hope you you are able to make it work, or if not, fulfill your dream another way. Good luck to you.

[Alan Hick]

Yes, I DID read the question. And you can see that I did from my previous response. And most of my "rant" was geared toward other posters who say to someone who is retiring, but having a seemingly difficult time financing her dream, to "go ahead, follow your dream". And I think, you know, all of you who say that, if what you're saying is you're willing to underwrite her dream, then that seems good advice. And if you're not willing to underwrite her dream then that seems ridiculous advice. This is the kind of advice you give to a 23 year old who lives in Armpit Iowa and is asking whether she should take her 23 dollars and move to New York or California. The OP considered living aboard. I know something about it. Do you? In a Trawler, or a Cruiser, OK. In a sailboat it's a young persons game. So fine, she didn't ask for advice. And yet plenty of people gave it to her, and a lot of it was irresponsible, in my opinion. Go back, start at the beginning, and read the whole thread. If you still feel I'm wrong, fine, I'm a shmuck. I apologize for being concerned. I'll show myself out and ban myself to the land of the mute. Ciao.

[Brian Ashton]

Yes, I DID read the question. And you can see that I did from my previous response. And most of my "rant" was geared toward other posters who say to someone who is retiring, but having a seemingly difficult time financing her dream, to "go ahead, follow your dream". And I think, you know, all of you who say that, if what you're saying is you're willing to underwrite her dream, then that seems good advice. And if you're not willing to underwrite her dream then that seems ridiculous advice. This is the kind of advice you give to a 23 year old who lives in Armpit Iowa and is asking whether she should take her 23 dollars and move to New York or California. The OP considered living aboard. I know something about it. Do you? In a Trawler, or a Cruiser, OK. In a sailboat it's a young persons game. So fine, she didn't ask for advice. And yet plenty of people gave it to her, and a lot of it was irresponsible, in my opinion. Go back, start at the beginning, and read the whole thread. If you still feel I'm wrong, fine, I'm a shmuck. I apologize for being concerned. I'll show myself out and ban myself to the land of the mute. Ciao.

You put it in perspective here. I wasnt totally understanding your first post but you did nail it. So many people are brave when its not their money or risk

[Julie Moriarty]

This is going to sound like I'm crazy but it's only a small part of our reality in trying to become sufficiently knowledgeable in the realities of nailing down the facts.

The insurance agent came back to us yesterday and gave us a flood quote 1/3 the previous one that knocked us out of the game. (insert head smack) That previous quote was based on the absolutely worst scenario. She just failed to tell us that. But I have no idea where it came from because when we ran all the worst case numbers, she couldn't even come close to that.

My SO owned an insurance agency for 25 years and has been asking all the right questions. The people in the insurance office have remarked how impressed they are, based on these questions. (2nd head smack) And no, it's not just this agency. The three priors were worse.

So we spend the rest of the day making certain what we hear over the phone and what we see in the contracts is the real thing and isn't going to change... again. We locked in the contracts and are moving forward. Then the agent said, "This has been such a great learning experience for us all. It's the talk of the office!" (is your forehead starting to hurt?)

To give you a more complete idea of what we've been dealing with... Our realtor calls and asks me to educate her on the law and ordinance issues we've been talking about. (forget the head smack and go straight to the bar) I spent 35 minutes giving her a class and offered to give a lecture to her entire office.

We close in two weeks.

[Sean Troy]

Depends on where. Slip fees on a friends 65' are just about $120,000 per year.
WOW!! They are being screwed BIG TIME! The nicest marinas on the east cost end up at 18-20 thousand a year for that size boat.

[Matt Meiser]

We close in two weeks.

Congratulations!

Anyone else think Julie should host a SMC party in January?

[Malcolm McLeod]

Congratulations!

Anyone else think Julie should host a SMC party in January?

+1 congrats.

The 'Glowforge' release and resulting argument has been inspiring ....I think you should crowd fund the house, boat, and party!

[Sean Troy]

Congratulations! that's wonderful news to see another live their dream. Best of luck and happiness.

[Jim Koepke]

We close in two weeks.

May good luck and the grace of God be with you.

We bought our retirement "dream house" in Southwestern Washington a little over 7 years ago.

I am not one for enjoying snow, but felt I could deal with a little. Last year it didn't snow. Looks like this year will be the same.

Enjoying the dream,

jtk

[Todd Willhoit]

...Armpit Iowa... The OP considered living aboard. I know something about it. Do you?
Armpit Iowa? A bit harsh, eh? Plenty of places "abroad" as you put it, which are far less desirable.

[Mike Ontko]

We close in two weeks.

Congratulations are in order then!

[Pat Barry]

This is going to sound like I'm crazy but it's only a small part of our reality in trying to become sufficiently knowledgeable in the realities of nailing down the facts.

The insurance agent came back to us yesterday and gave us a flood quote 1/3 the previous one that knocked us out of the game. (insert head smack) That previous quote was based on the absolutely worst scenario. She just failed to tell us that. But I have no idea where it came from because when we ran all the worst case numbers, she couldn't even come close to that.

My SO owned an insurance agency for 25 years and has been asking all the right questions. The people in the insurance office have remarked how impressed they are, based on these questions. (2nd head smack) And no, it's not just this agency. The three priors were worse.

So we spend the rest of the day making certain what we hear over the phone and what we see in the contracts is the real thing and isn't going to change... again. We locked in the contracts and are moving forward. Then the agent said, "This has been such a great learning experience for us all. It's the talk of the office!" (is your forehead starting to hurt?)

To give you a more complete idea of what we've been dealing with... Our realtor calls and asks me to educate her on the law and ordinance issues we've been talking about. (forget the head smack and go straight to the bar) I spent 35 minutes giving her a class and offered to give a lecture to her entire office.

We close in two weeks.

You go girl! Now find yourselves a nice little sailboat and enjoy life. (not too little though:) )

[Julie Moriarty]

Thanks for the Congrats! I think?

The owner invited us over for margaritas and nachos yesterday. The lanai really is beautiful in the evening. I kept asking myself if I deserved this. Did I work as hard as I could have? I wasn't doing a very good job convincing myself I did. Guess that was my dad in my head.

[Tom M King]

This is going to sound like I'm crazy but it's only a small part of our reality in trying to become sufficiently knowledgeable in the realities of nailing down the facts.

The insurance agent came back to us yesterday and gave us a flood quote 1/3 the previous one that knocked us out of the game. (insert head smack) That previous quote was based on the absolutely worst scenario. She just failed to tell us that. But I have no idea where it came from because when we ran all the worst case numbers, she couldn't even come close to that.

My SO owned an insurance agency for 25 years and has been asking all the right questions. The people in the insurance office have remarked how impressed they are, based on these questions. (2nd head smack) And no, it's not just this agency. The three priors were worse.

So we spend the rest of the day making certain what we hear over the phone and what we see in the contracts is the real thing and isn't going to change... again. We locked in the contracts and are moving forward. Then the agent said, "This has been such a great learning experience for us all. It's the talk of the office!" (is your forehead starting to hurt?)

To give you a more complete idea of what we've been dealing with... Our realtor calls and asks me to educate her on the law and ordinance issues we've been talking about. (forget the head smack and go straight to the bar) I spent 35 minutes giving her a class and offered to give a lecture to her entire office.

We close in two weeks.

Great Work!!!!! and congratulations!!

[Robert Engel]

Have you checked insurability?
If you can insure it for replacement value seems to me that's a big factor.

My brother has a waterfront house in the St Pete area and the insurance is crazy expensive.

[Ian Moone]

Not Florida, But I lived on a canal for 3 years!.

If I were YOU - I'd see if you could maybe Rent it with an option to buy it in 1 or 2 years time!.

Canal livings not what its always cracked up to be....

It took 2 or 3 years living on the Canal - to "find out from the neighbors"... what the "problems really were that non of the realtors mentioned when trying to sell us a place on the canal".

For entertainment we'd invite family and friends down to watch the neighbors boats sink at the dock when they fill with rain, batter runs flat operating the bilge pump - the tide comes up and sinks their boat tied to their waterfront dock!

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/troutylow/BogansBoat.jpg

Money can't buy entertainment like this!.

Watching them for 2 days drunk out of their skulls trying to re-float it 9diving into the freezing water in winter in their underpants) I could have charged admittance!

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/troutylow/Image285.jpg

75 ft of dock on 3 sides - nice outdoor entertaining area between 5 x 3 house and dock.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/troutylow/Fleet1.jpg

Private slipway alongside the house + covered 3 car/boat garage for working on boats and cars!

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/troutylow/PA280011.jpg

Entertaining area under 3 feet of water on an unexpectedly big tide! - Woke up to find my BBQ and roasting Kettle floating off down the canal along with the patio furniture. Funny - that wasn't in the sales brochure.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/troutylow/P1010182.jpg

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Dock underwater & the boat floating on top of it. Lucky its an alloy boat and not fiberglass!.

These canals were built so long ago (more than 20 years) they had silted up and on low tide were only a couple 3 feet deep - the Australian Standard is 6 meters (20ft).

My boat only drew about 6 inches so no big deal.

BUT the developers dun new canals fed off the old canals... and sold them for around a million each block of ground. New ones dredged to code at 20 ft deep!.

Investors bought them build expensive double and 2 & 3 story water front homes and put their 40 ft yacht in the canal out the front of their house - you know the yacht that draws say 4 or 5 meters!! (!2 to 15 feet) with the deep keels.

Just one problem... non of them could reach the estuary and hence open ocean - coz the access channel leads off the old canals which are only 3 foot deep! Oops!

I could go on.... there were many other issues - lanmd values that went up from 500K to $1M speculatively within 12 months and back to 400K within another 6 months.... with the economy ups and downs - values vary wildly in short periods of time!

You should ONLY buy at the very bottom of the market.

One of the neighbors places had a sunken lounge. When the water flooded over their slip way & into the house, the sunken lounge really was - sunken - like with 3 feet of brine estuary water in it including all the electrical circuits. 6 months later it was back on the market around $2Mil... to some unsuspecting sucker.

I've lived on canals - I've lived on islands...for YEARS & I never had to buy any of them... great fun but not sound investments mostly!.

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Lived and worked here on and off over 15 years

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Just a week or so here!

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Spent a year living and working on this Island!

You can have the lifestyle without playing the mugs game of buying the joint!.

Invest somewhere safe and use the returns to pay the rent on a canal and see how you like it first!.

That's what I WOULD do!.

Your Mileage May Vary.

[Julie Moriarty]

Well, we moved ahead with the deal. Then about a week ago the seller was missing a document the title company needed. During this whole we have gotten to know the seller and we are often aware of what's happening before the realtors, lawyers or other parties involved. We've even had a couple of evenings at her house enjoying the view from her lanai. It's been a nice respite from vacation home rental life.

Anyway, this document must be found or she has to go to court and have them rule in the absence of the document. Her lawyer says 3-5 weeks. We were supposed to close Friday. I hope I make it. This place we're staying was designed by a mad man. It flows so poorly it's like living in a maze. I think it was intended to drive people crazy.

[Julie Moriarty]

Well, we still haven't closed. A title cloud needs to be cleared. I think this may end up on a real estate soap opera. We've already had to move once and in less than a month we will have to move again.

But today there was hope. The trustee has finally contacted the title company and says he should be sending the docs to clear the title cloud. We may be in the new place before Christmas. I'm keeping my fingers crossed but I'm not holding my breath. :rolleyes:

[Shawn Pixley]

Best wishes. What a pain

[Bruce Wrenn]

Julie, the 50% rule is the law here in NC. That's why a lot of renovations are done in several smaller steps, one permit at the time, none of which is 50% or more.

[Julie Moriarty]

I'm beginning to think someone doesn't want me to buy that house.

Yesterday I get a call. The trustee finally sent the documents to the title company. The seller and our realtor were positive this was it and we'd be closing soon.

This morning the seller calls, not at all happy. The title company said the docs sent were only part of what was needed. Now the trustee, who was first notified about this two months ago, will have to find the rest of the documents and submit them. And in two weeks we have to clear out of this rental.

Remind me again why I thought moving to Florida was a good idea.

[Ian Moone]

Down here we call it BF Alaska! :D

[Julie Moriarty]

And, like a tennis ball, I'm hit back to the other side of the court. Got two calls and two emails this morning. Looks like game, set & match. All the docs are in. The title attorney is happy. Now the title company has to give it their final blessing.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

It sounds like you have a hangover without going to the trouble of consuming the beverages......:(

[Julie Moriarty]

It sounds like you have a hangover without going to the trouble of consuming the beverages......:(

Now I know why I feel like I do! Ken, can I make you my therapist?

[Bruce Page]

My wife retired as a title officer for Fidelity Title. You wouldn't believe some of the horror stories she can tell on deals gone bad!
I think you are over the hump. I hope it goes smoothly the rest of the way through.

[Stewie Simpson]

As someone who does believe in man made climate change, I would have chosen a different location to retire. That been said, I do wish you great success during your retirement.

[Mike Cozad]

When I bought & sold our house in Rio Rancho, Fidelity was the title company. By far, the best at their job than any of the other 3 homes I have bought and/or sold in Missouri or Ohio. ..

My wife retired as a title officer for Fidelity Title. You wouldn't believe some of the horror stories she can tell on deals gone bad!
I think you are over the hump. I hope it goes smoothly the rest of the way through.

[Julie Moriarty]

The attorney for the title company has gone above and beyond in this case. The problem was with the seller and trustee. The trustee is the son of the man the seller lived with for 19 years. When he died, she got the house and half of his estate. The son contested will and lost. The seller, stressed after a year in court, threw out all the court files some time after the case was closed. The documents she needed to prove ownership were probably in those files.

About a week and a half ago I sent a letter (snail mail) to the trustee, explaining the hardship this delay is causing us. Right about the time he should have received the letter, he contacted the title attorney and said he'd send the documents. So maybe that letter had some effect.

Over a month ago, the seller had hired an attorney to handle the case but she wouldn't direct him to do anything because, "Every time I call him, it costs me money." Just after I sent the letter to the trustee, I told her she should either fire her attorney or tell him to subpoena the parties for the documents. I don't know if she ever did. What I do know is her attorney said afterward, "I am so glad to hear that I will not have to file the lawsuit!"

I think part of the feet dragging was due to the fact two local attorneys should have had those files. One claimed he never got them. The other said he destroyed them. Law says attorneys have to keep files for 7 years. It's only been 4. So the seller's attorney would have had to subpoena two local attorneys if the case was going to court and those attorneys would have had to explain why they don't have those files.

Anyway, it's done. We close on the 15th. It will be nice having my tools again. :D I've been working on a model sailboat to keep me busy. Not a day goes my I don't miss my tools.

[Shawn Pixley]

It looks like this long nightmare is coming to an end. Best hopes for a smooth conclusion.

[Brian Tymchak]

Julie, you deserve a medal for seeing this thru to the end. Think I would have pulled the plug long ago.

Good luck with the closing.

[Julie Moriarty]

Thanks, guys. We stuck it out because right around the time our offer was accepted, home prices here began to soar. Right now, to get what we are getting would cost another $50K+. It just got nuts here!