Large Planer / Jointer reviews???

[Jim DeMarco]

Hello all, I have searched, and searched but have not found any good information. What I am looking for is this:
1. Looking to purchase a 20" planer, have all of the technical inof on just about anything made. Does anyone know of any magazine review on larger shop equipment? I think I have narrowed my choices to Powermatic and Delta, possibly General?
2. Pretty much the same as above, except 8" or maybe 12" jointer. Also can anyone tell me who makes Oliver now??

I prefer sticking to 1ph power, but will consider 3ph limiting HP to about 5 (phase converter can only run 7.5 HP)

Thank you all for any help and/or info you can provide.

Jim

[Rob Russell]

Oliver is an import that bought the Oliver name.

Re your phase convertor, is it a 7.5 HP idler motor? If so, you should be able to run 10+ HP of motors are the same time, with a largest motor of 7.5 HP.

[Todd Burch]

Jim, look at the Minimax 20" combo jointer/planer. I have the Felder 22" combo unit. Having a wide jointer is awesome.

Todd

[Jeff A. Smith]

Jim, look at the Minimax 20" combo jointer/planer. I have the Felder 22" combo unit. Having a wide jointer is awesome.

Todd

I thought the FS/41 (16") was their biggest combo???

Jeff Smith
Athens, AL

[Dev Emch]

General of Canada makes a 20 inch planer. Its very hard to get one as not many of these were sold. During the early to mid 90s, I actually drove to the general plant and picked one up. Saved a bunch on freight and that was worth while.

The 14 inch and 20 inch general of canada planers are awsome. My 20 inch planer was solid cast iron to the floor and the main body was a single casting. It is comes stock with a four knife head. As I ordered this planer, I was lucky enough to get it with a 5 HP single phase baldor motor. Shortly afterwards, I went to three phase and never looked back. In general, this was an incredible planer! I sold this planer with hardly a scratch on it and now I regret it. Not that I do not like the planer I replaced it with mind you... I replaced it with a mint condition 1968 Oliver 299 which is 24 inches wide.

About 2 years after I bought my general planer, general began the general international business and really took away many incentives for buying the north american machines. I paid around $5000 dollars new for this planer. Two years later, this planer was around $10,000 USD and the last I heard, the price was pushing $11,000 dollars. The main reason given was that the accountents had not readjusted the foundary and labor expenses in years and it was time to readjust these costs. Whatever.... this hurts and it hurts bad. I personally believe that the company was just making to much money off the international line and lost its hungry edge. They discontinued the 24 inch planer and the number of 20 inchers sold can be counted on one hand since 1995!

The current oliver is only a marketing front for a taiwan made machine. The company name was sold to this outfit and these machines are blue. The olivers of note are teal green with red & white namplates and the pre 1955 ones have the black and gold eagle nameplates known as "brass chickens". Note that used olivers may have been painted! Often they show up at dealers who slobber them gray in a hap hazzard way.

[Alan Turner]

Dev,
What is that you don't like about the Oliver 299? Any details would be appreciated as I just acquired one, but am awaing the completion of a roof before untarping it. Any tips and tricks would be appreciated.

[Todd Burch]

Jeff, beats me?!!!! If you say so, it must be. Shows you how much I know about the MM line.

Alan, you gotta stop drinking at 3:51am. It's starting to show in your typing.

[John Renzetti]

Hi Todd, There is a 20" model both by MM and the larger SCMI. They are just not imported into the USA. There are only two 20" capacity J/P's coming into the USA now-Felder has them in the bigger 900 and Format line. And Laguna has them from Robland. Laguna used to have a 24" made by Hoffman of Germany, but it was so expensive at around $25k, that there was really no market for it. I don't think they carry Hoffman anymore. Dev I believe bought one of their last Hoffman shapers that was in stock.
take care,
John

[Steve Wargo]

If I'm not mistaken I believe that Griggio also offers a 20" Jointer/Planer to the US. Very quiet machines.

[Jim Hager]

I sure like this planer. I have had it now for 9-10 years and haven't had to do a darn thing to it other than clean it up and sharpen the knives. I run a lot of red oak through it and it does a fantastic job. I believe it is a 5hp, and it runs on single phase but I'm sure it is available in 3 phase too. I really like the ease of adjustment in the bed rollers when I run into some really rough material. I keep the bed waxed and I don't have any trouble with feeding issues. The dust collection is excellent and the hood comes with the planer not as an add on. This is made overseas somewhere but it is well built. Best light duty industrial planer that I have ever used. I wish I knew who made it and if it was available in some other "brand" to make it cheaper for you to buy but I don't. I bought this planer after a really bad experience with a woodmaster. But that is a different story alltogether. Good luck in your search.


http://a5.cpimg.com/image/1B/DF/37671195-25e4-02000180-.jpg

[Jim Becker]

Reviews of the wider stuff are unusual...most of the publications cater to the "consumer" market which is much, much larger than the pro and "serious hobbiest" marketplace that buys the wider stuff. A long time ago, WOOD did include a 20" Grizzly in their review of 15" planers, largely because it was priced similar to the others they were looking at and they felt it was a good option in that space.

I'll pile on the motion to consider a wider J/P combo...you get a whole lot of machine in less space and the cost is generally less than buying separates of the same capacity. The ease of knife maintenance with systems such as Tersa that are usually included on them is also wonderful. 20", however, does push you up in the price spectrum...

"Oliver" is being imported, I believe, by the Sunhill folks on the north, left-coast. The reviews of their 10" jointer have been good.

[Alan Turner]

Alan, you gotta stop drinking at 3:51am. It's starting to show in your typing.

Todd, Iv'e never been a good (or accurate) typist, and am even a worse proofreader. But, that said, I never start drinkling till 5 a.m., local prevailing time.

[Todd Burch]

Thats good Alan. Very good. Anyone who starts drinking before 5AM, in my book, is a lush. :)

(Now, if said drinking started the day prior, continuing to drink past 5AM is commendable. )

[Paul B. Cresti]

Hello all, I have searched, and searched but have not found any good information. What I am looking for is this:
1. Looking to purchase a 20" planer, have all of the technical inof on just about anything made. Does anyone know of any magazine review on larger shop equipment? I think I have narrowed my choices to Powermatic and Delta, possibly General?
2. Pretty much the same as above, except 8" or maybe 12" jointer. Also can anyone tell me who makes Oliver now??

I prefer sticking to 1ph power, but will consider 3ph limiting HP to about 5 (phase converter can only run 7.5 HP)

Thank you all for any help and/or info you can provide.

Jim

Jim,
As others have suggested I would consider a European J/P in the 16-20" range. If you compare apples to apples in quality machinery the J/P combo is cheaper. I am sorry if I offend anyone but import machines just can not compare to a European machine in performance or quality. I did use to own a General 14" planer model 130 and that one is made in Canada. The Canadian made General machinery is built and performs great but it is not cheap at all. The General line is the only other machinery I would consider after the European machines now. There just is no other USA made machines anymore ( a few exceptions: Northfield, Ritter..)
MM does have a 20" j/p but it is under their Formula series and it is not a normal import. You would have to check with them on it. I have the FS41 (16" j/p) and it is great.

[Mark Singer]

Paul knows about this stuff and is very helpful!;) He helped me make a big decision and he has done lots of research!

[Jim Becker]

I am sorry if I offend anyone but import machines just can not compare to a European machine in performance or quality.

Paul, I love ya, buddy...but you need to re-read this little ditty!!:D:D:D

[lou sansone]

what is your budget ? that will help to direct your search. If money is no object then the german or italian machines are real nice as well as american made northfield. But it you are thinking in the 3000 or less range then it is either tiawian or used vintage stuff.

lou

[mike malone]

hi jim
consider the RC53 (24") or RC 51 (20")
there were delta but now are sold under the original Invicta name. I bought a used RC51 with auto table, etc and find it a great solid machine.
regards
mike

[Dev Emch]

Hi Alan...

There is nothing wrong with the oliver 299.:) I am sorry if my comment may have come across as if I regret what I did. Not at all. Its just that I was darn lucky in time and space to get the 20 inch general when I did and when I look back at it, I wish I would have kept it. I could put it next to my 1904 fay & egan 20 inch planer in my old barn. May encourage me to finish the restoration.

What most folks dont know is this. Oliver was pretty much unique in its design of the 299. When you look at newman, whitney, buss, etc. many of these where pigs! Extreme heavy duty machines. Oliver had there own version of these as well in the 30 inch planer. General copied these monsters in making the 24 inch planer. But for the 20 inch planer, general copied many elements straight from the 299. They are too close to each other from an engineering point of view for that to be a coincidence! Check out the one section body casting. Check out the one peice top casting. Examine the power feed rollers. Check out the reeves drive for the power feed speed control. They did do some things different. For example, there is a power take off from the main cutter head drive which runs the lower reeves drive for feed control. Oliver's feed system has its own motor. They also added a heavy sheet metal encasement which holds the drive belts and the main drive motor is located in the rear towards the ground. Olivers were direct drive. The sectional feed roller looks like oliver's been there! The sectional chip breaker looks so similar to the oliver that the only way you can tell the difference is that the general had chromed or polished handles and was 4 inches shorter.

The 14 inch general planer appears to be have been influenced by both early powermatic planers and also by parks planers. They also used their own design for the gear box. That gear box is awsome and I have not seen a similar one elsewhere.

These machines are old school designs. Lots of cast iron and precision machined parts. Very little CNC anywhere and virtually no plastic. Some may call this obsolete but they do an incredible job and can take abuse beyond reasonable. And if I need a part, I can either make it or have the machine shop down the street make it.

The oliver 299 planer is a massive 24 inch planer in most folks eyes. At least until they see the huge powermatics or buss or newman planers. But keep this fact in mind. The oliver 299 was built for use in professional pattern shops. It is a hyper precise machine and that is why most have 5 HP direct drive cutter head motors. Five ponies for a 24 inch lumber yard machine is not enough! The powermatic 24 inch planer was 10 HP typical and the buss often had 15 and 20 HP motors.

Now some 299 planers did have more power. You could order 7.5 and 10 hp motors. The 7.5 hp motor has the same form factor as the 5 so you need to read the motor tag to see what you have. The larger motors had a "donut" spacer about 3 inch thick between the motor casing and the motor end cap.

For those who have never seen a 299, the motor is direct drive and the motor casing is cast as part of the planers complete head. There are no bearings in the motor. The motor rotor hangs as a cantilevered shaft off the main cutter head shaft which is where the bearings are located. The stator winding assembly slides into this motor casing and the end cap is just bolted to this casing. There is a cooling fan on the end of the rotor which you can see if you look into the slots of the motor end cap casting.

The 299 or a modernist version of it can still be ordered. The oliver name is no more. Its been sold to some other outfit. The new name is Eagle Machinery & Repair in Grand Rapids, MI. They are still in the same building that they occupied since the the early 1900s. You can order "factory" rebuilt 299s with the oliver name or brand new versions with the eagle name. But they are very expensive.

I make my own replacement parts for my olivers and the olivers of my friends. So I am not at all concerned about having a machine for which parts may or may not be available.

What I found out about the larger or lumber yard planers is that many have been beat to death. Should you get one of these, be prepared for a lengthty and expensive restoration. Once done, any of these machines will perform so nicely that you will dance a jig on the kitchen table.:D

[Paul B. Cresti]

Paul, I love ya, buddy...but you need to re-read this little ditty!!:D:D:D

Ouch tough crowd :) Jim you hurt my feelings now. Maybe you should make it up to me at the Porterhouse ;) . I just assume ( yes I know what I am for using that word) that imports have come to mean from Tiawan, China.....

[Jim Becker]

Well, Paul...I'm just a little anal sometimes. I knew "what" you meant, but there was a little conundrum in the wording... ;)

[Alan Turner]

Dev,
Thanks so much for the tutorial. I knew I liked the look, and the reputation is excellent, but I was not aware of many of the features you described and compared. One thing that I found interesting, and it was recommended as important, was that the 299 has power bed rollers. I have never had a machine with those, nor used one except perhaps quickly and roughly at a yard or mill. I wonder at the snipe factor, since the bed rollers are set up .02". We shall see, but this is what was recommended to me.

Mine is the traditional teal, but that is a repaint with a very well matched color. I got some extra of the paint and will be painting my jointer back to original as well, since the last shop painted it a sort of nice looking silver/gray slightly on the green side. A nice color, but not the one for this guy.

[lou sansone]

Dev,
Thanks so much for the tutorial. I knew I liked the look, and the reputation is excellent, but I was not aware of many of the features you described and compared. One thing that I found interesting, and it was recommended as important, was that the 299 has power bed rollers. I have never had a machine with those, nor used one except perhaps quickly and roughly at a yard or mill. I wonder at the snipe factor, since the bed rollers are set up .02". We shall see, but this is what was recommended to me.

Mine is the traditional teal, but that is a repaint with a very well matched color. I got some extra of the paint and will be painting my jointer back to original as well, since the last shop painted it a sort of nice looking silver/gray slightly on the green side. A nice color, but not the one for this guy.

hi alan
my casadei also has them, and in fact the powered bed rollers was one of the main features that I was looking for in a machine. you are going to like them

best wishes and lets get hopping with those old iron pictures you have had long enough

http://www.casadeimacchine.com/html/prodotti/big/R63H3.jpg

[Dev Emch]

yes Alan... the 299 has power bed rollers.:)

But so did my general 20 inch planer. In fact, the design was very similar to the oliver with some exceptions. But I should talk about what those differences truely mean from a comparative point of view.

The following is my own case study of the 299 planer. In general, there are three types of 299 planers. If you look on ebay right now, you will see a Type 1 299 planer. This planer has the brass chicken namplate and the hinged doors on the main casting. The type 2 of which my planer belongs to has bolt in doors in place of the hinged doors and has the red and white namplate. There were some improvements in the casting thickness of this planer over the type 1. Both the type 1 and type 2 have gear driven bed rollers run by a drive shaft that sits under the main bed. The third type or type 3 299 was first built in about 1974 and it has the ugly square shape and lots more rubber belts and pulleys. The feed motor end bell sticks out the front and the classic bed roller design was replaced with the more modern design. I prefer the older gear driven/drive shaft design myself.

Contary to what has been said, you can equip any of these types with the ITCH head if you desire. ITCH heads were not isolated for use in type 3 299 planers only! The ITCH head was the forrunner of the Byrd Shelix head. Just goes to show you that what is old is new again.:rolleyes:

There was a unique option on 299 planers and I have only seen one of these in my entire life. That is, a micrometer adjust for the bed rollers. Now most of your heavy duty lumber yard planers all had these as standard options. Check out the heavy duty 24 inch powermatics and you will see the lever or dial on the front edge of the infeed table.

This gizmo allows one to adjust the height of the bed rollers quickly and with ease. It also allows you to fine tune this height for different applications. For example, in very rough lumber you may wish to use more than 2 thousandths. In smooth lumber, you may wish to dial it to 1.5 to 2 thousandths or 2 thou as they say. It is a very nice thing to have. The lumber yard planers are always dealing with nasty rough lumber, nice planed lumber and anything inbetween. Thus, they needed to have this option. The 299 frequenly was used to precision mill mahagony and crystal clear pine for patterns. It is more adapted to milling precision stock for fine furniture and cabinets than for plowing though thousands of feet of rough and fuzzy timber. Sure the 299 can do this job very well... but you may need to first dial it in for such a job which includes raising the bed rollers.

But also bear in mind that my buddy showed me a slab of nasty walnut super burl that he had planed with a 1945 type 1 299. There was no pull out or blow out and the slab was smooth as glass! He had planed this slab down to about 1/4 inch thickness. The cutter head was stock with three Schmidt T1 steel knives that had been ground and honed by the onboard knife grinder. You really could not ask for anything better than this!

[Alan Turner]

My dealer delivered the machine to me and wallked me thorugh the basics, but he had already sharpened the knives to be sure it was as good as he had told me. Mine has loose doors, no hinges, and is, I was told, from the 50's. Red label. It has little wear on the chipbreaker, which he was said was indicative of light use. I was thinking pattern shop. Some, he said, have chip breakers where the serations are almost smooth. I do not like factory machines. Piecework takes its toll, even on beasts.

Mine does have the grinder permanently mounted. He walked me through the procedure to sharpen the knives, and then to joint them. But, I think the jointer stone is gone. I will have to find one. Do you have a recommendation? Grit size?

Changing the bed rollers is a PITA, so he had already set it fine for me, knowing the work I like to do. Once I test drive it a bit I will know if they are right, but I don't think they will be going back and forth a lot. Had a PM 160 for a short while and it had a lever where it would either have the bed rollers high for rough lumber or low for smooth lumber. This does not have that device. Seemed handy to me, but I don't think the PM 160 had powered bed rollers, although I would not bet on that.

On this one the base has three holes in it. I am thinking that I will drill two more, in the corners, and mount a base of 4x4's with a place for a pallet jack. I won't want to move it often, but that guy is heavy, and I only have so many friends. 2800# I think.

Mine has a 3 knife, round cutterhead. And I have the knife setting block and the knife puller, but both of those are from my jointer, where all the parts were there. It also has a grinder, which I had never seen before for a jointer. The dealer was going to help me adjust it but when we put his 6' straight edge on it, it required none. I had been concerned that it got out of whack a bit because of the way it had to be rigged up to the second floor of the new shop. Went through a hole in the floor, 6' square, but the jointer is longer than that by about 3' if you count the table adjustment handles. Came up at a 45* angle on a 3 section forklift with chainfall assist. Riggers were already in the building, so I bought a couple of hours off of them without having to bear the mobilization charge.

Lou, I will post pix in due course, but we are still undergoing the roof replacement and the shop is still a disaster. I am trying to take a few shots as time goes along so I will have some "before and after" ones.

[Dev Emch]

Alan...

The honing stone is still available from Eagle Machinery & Repair in Grand Rapids, MI. As I recall, the stones are less than $50 dollars which is not that bad. I am considering replacing my grinder wheel with a borazon tipped wheel but we will see. The problem is that the wheel used by the grinder is unique and you may have to custom order replacement wheels.

If your doors are not hinged and you have a red label and your machine comes from the 1950s, then congrats:D You have one of the first of the type 2 299 planers made. The cutover date was about 1955 give or take a bit.

[Jim DeMarco]

Serious;, thank you all so much for your insight. I am so glad I stumbled onto this site, there is a TON of knowledge and expierence on here. First let me the clear a few things, I was questioned on my budget... well there in lies the problem. This entire endevor started because I purchased a 15" Delta, which is a great machine, and it has been almost maintainace free. (It is amazing what 600 BF of hard maple will do to planer knives).
For some quick background I am an engineer, and I also do heavy construction on the side. My 'other' hobby is cars.... and of course a love for tools.... sound familiar. Yes I suffer from Tim Allan's bigger is better, and more power.
That being said I decided to upgrade HP in a planer, and if you are going to buy a new one, might as well add size to the equation too.
So I began researching, and researching... quickly realizing that the majority of the machines all look the same. Prices do not however, I assume the internals vary with manufacture. I originally intended on buying a large Delta (still thinking they were American made).

So once I start gathering information I notice a HUGE variation in price, I have found $1500 planers, all the way up to $15,000. Now as I said my initial plan was the Delta, around the $4k mark, but then I found the Powermatic 201 which is a 22" 7.5 HP and 4 blades for the same money? Next logical question is then do I spend a little more to go to a machine with a spiral / helical insert cutter head? Feed rates, and of course quality were other immediate concerns.

So lets budget $4-5 k... what would YOU buy ??

BTW Paul, politically correct, the term is Asian imports. :)
Regarding the Euro combinations, what manufactures would you suggest?

Thank you all again

[lou sansone]

if you were willing to spend that much you could by the following used machines that I think are pretty hight quality

Italian 20 to 24 inch machines - you will have to probably spend your entire budget on them. Names would be SCM or SCMI, griggio, casadei. Getting any of these for under 5 k would be considered quite a deal if they were in decent shape, and they would all be 3 phase

American machines oliver 299 and powermatic 225 , newman 248, cresent p24, general 20 or 24 inch
I don't think you would be able to find a northfield #7 for less than about 7k
added to this list would be the delta invicta RC63, but I have heard some complaints about the tables moving under a load, so I would be leary about them. most of these would also be 3 phase

for new machines I think you are talking about only tiwian machines, but I could be wrong on that..

best wishes lou

[John Renzetti]

Hi Jim, Within your budget I believe that PM 201 has some nice features. I would choose it over the Delta. Since you are on the east coast also look at the planers that Wilke sells under the Bridgewood name. Wilke, located in York, PA has a good reputation.
Invicta of Brazil, who used to make the planers for Delta is bringing them in under their own name. Price is around $4k-5k. I saw them at the AWFS in Vegas and they looked well built but fit and finish was not the greatest.

I like Lou's suggestions in looking also at a used European planer. Sometimes they show up on the IRS auction site and they are found on the Ex-factory website. I like Casolin, SAC, Griggio, MM, SCMI, Casadei, from the Italian machines. Felder, Martin, Panhans, Kolle from the German Austrian line, but these even used might be well above your budget.
For the older American made planers, I think on Redmond's site there were some rebuilt PM's. Check this out also.
A comment about the Euro jointer/planers. Although I've owned one, now a Felder Format 20", these are not for everybody. True they have a lot of good features, and for my situation and space this machine is perfect. But I know guys who absolutely have a mindset against them. If you haven't tried one then at least give it a look. But if you have and they don't fit into your work methods, then that's fine and we'll conscentrate on the stand alone planer and then move to a decent 12" jointer.
take care,
John

[Paul B. Cresti]

So once I start gathering information I notice a HUGE variation in price, I have found $1500 planers, all the way up to $15,000. Now as I said my initial plan was the Delta, around the $4k mark, but then I found the Powermatic 201 which is a 22" 7.5 HP and 4 blades for the same money? Next logical question is then do I spend a little more to go to a machine with a spiral / helical insert cutter head? Feed rates, and of course quality were other immediate concerns.

So lets budget $4-5 k... what would YOU buy ??

BTW Paul, politically correct, the term is Asian imports. :)
Regarding the Euro combinations, what manufactures would you suggest?

Thank you all again

Jim,
OK I stand corrected. Even though my initials without my middle name are PC, I am far from it ;)

I had two separate machines a 8" jointer and a 14" planer and the were both tops in their respective class. I chose to upgrade because I needed more jointing capacity. I wanted this to be my last machine (well I think so...:) ) with max capacity and performance. I was not sold on the J/P combo but I figured well I will keep my planer and see what happens. When I got the machine (MiniMax FS41) I notice real quicj just how great of a machine it was and how much better it was then my planer (General 14" 130). Having a matching jointing and planing capability is incredible not to mention the ability to also have a horizontal slot mortiser! So I have three machines now for the price of one. I sold the jointer, planer and my mortiser.

If you are willing to spend 4-5k then you are close to some high quality j/p's. Add to that the selling off of your existing equipment and add a bit and your are there. In order to even get close to the same quality in separates you will need to spend double and that is assuming you have the space for it, I do not if I match the same capacity that I have now. Trust me once you have matching jointing & planing capacity you will not know how you lived without it! Once you get into the 24" planning width I am not sure what you are planning anyway. I would take a stab at that being table tops and at that size a wdie belt would be better anyway. I think the 20" planer is just about the optimum size for a woodworker.

Personally I do not buy into this helical head business. I wanted to get away from the horrible knife changing/setting business and now that I have a Tersa head, changing knives is like chewing gum, no effort at all. The idea off spinning each individual knife does not intrigue me at all. If my knives are dull I either flip them over or replace them and they only cost about 40$ for a set of three (don't forget they have two sides). So my second suggestion is get a TERSA head!

I chose MiniMax because I wanted the highest quality product I could afford (or not) and did not require all the electronic add ons. They are nice but not necessary. I have also found out that these machines are quite eassly serviceable by myself. Now I am not like Lou, who will go and rebuild a machine, but I can work on them if I need to. These machines are simple and elegantly designed all while being extremely accurate and "real brutes" when needed. You definatley can spend more than a MiniMAx machine but you will not get better accuracy of performance. What you will get is more features only. BY the way, if you are into all the features you could ask for yet still have the MiniMax quality look at the parent company SCM. They are the biggest ww'g machinery company in the world.

[John Renzetti]

replace them and they only cost about 40$ for a set of three (don't forget they have two sides). So my second suggestion is get a TERSA head!


Paul, Where are you buying your tersa blades. Last I checked they were about $30-40 each depending on whether it is M2 or M42 steel. This is for the 16" size.
take care,
John

[Paul B. Cresti]

John,

I have a three blade cutter head and I am buying HSS from MM

[John Renzetti]

John,

I have a three blade cutter head and I am buying HSS from MM

hi Paul, There must have been a big price drop or MM should update their website. I just looked at it and they show the HSS at $36/ea and the Trimetal at $40/ea.
take care,
John

[Dan Forman]

Paul, the latest price listing on 16" HSS knives from MM is $36 each. So is the price you are quoting per edge or per blade?

Dan

[Dev Emch]

Jim...

If your working a high end budget of 4 to 5 K, you should be able to wiggle into a type 2 oliver 299 on the used market. That would be my vote! Play your cards right and you have some cash in your pocket when all is said and done.:D

[Paul B. Cresti]

Sorry you guys are correct I just checked my invoices!

[John Renzetti]

Sorry you guys are correct I just checked my invoices!

Hi Paul, Remind me to check your cost estimates if I get you to design an addition for me. :)
(Jim Becker made me say that. : )
take care,
John

[Michael Perata]

I thought the FS/41 (16") was their biggest combo???

Jeff Smith
Athens, AL
They have a 20" planer and 16" jointer, but only a 16" combo J-P. Chris P. has a MiniMax 16" J-P. I think he has a secret desire to be a carrier pilot. It may be possible land a F-18 on the jointer bed.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Hi Paul, Remind me to check your cost estimates if I get you to design an addition for me. :)
(Jim Becker made me say that. : )
take care,
John

Man you PA guys are tough! :) some say tomato some say tomatoe some say 36 for 3 some say 36x3 ! Whats the difference its only money ;) ?

[Aaron Mills]

I noticed some discussion about Invicta planers earlier in this discussion. I would like to know more about the comments from Lou and John regarding the table shifting under load and the finish not being great. Do these comments apply only to the new Invicta planers, or is the same true of the older models from the 1980s when Invicta was partnered with Delta/Rockwell? I'm particularly interested in the RC63, which both Delta and Invicta presently manufacture in a slightly altered form.

Also, I'm interested in finding out more about the various types of table supporting/raising mechanisms. I've noticed the four post design on many models, but also seen two large lead screws (ex. Powermatic 201), and a even a single large support, centred on the bottom of the bed. Is there a particular style that is best, or does a better job at eliminating sniping?

Thanks,

Aaron

[Sam Blasco]

Hi Todd, There is a 20" model both by MM and the larger SCMI. They are just not imported into the USA. John

Hey guys, I hope this can clarify things. MM does offer the Formula FS/2 20" J/P and anyone who might want such a beast in the US can special order one. MM-USA doesn't stock any, but it is available. Its twin from SCM has options for complete and automatic changeover for those who really like luxury items.:)

[Mike Laing]

Hello All,

The posts in this thread make one believe that there can never truley be a limit to the size of a j/p or ts for that matter. Until I got a felder (with alot of help from John. R) I felt my 6" General and 10" delta ts where the ultimate in woodworking machinery. I guess my point is that these big machines are great as long as you have the space and the budget.

Mike Laing

[lou sansone]

I noticed some discussion about Invicta planers earlier in this discussion. I would like to know more about the comments from Lou and John regarding the table shifting under load and the finish not being great. Do these comments apply only to the new Invicta planers, or is the same true of the older models from the 1980s when Invicta was partnered with Delta/Rockwell? I'm particularly interested in the RC63, which both Delta and Invicta presently manufacture in a slightly altered form.

Also, I'm interested in finding out more about the various types of table supporting/raising mechanisms. I've noticed the four post design on many models, but also seen two large lead screws (ex. Powermatic 201), and a even a single large support, centred on the bottom of the bed. Is there a particular style that is best, or does a better job at eliminating sniping?

Thanks,

Aaron

sorry it took so long to get back to you on this question. From what I have read about the rc-63 and knowing personally one guy that had one, you are correct about the table drooping issue. I almost bought one and I am now glad I waited for my casadei planer. It has a 4 post design that seems to really work quite decently. I think the oliver 299 uses 2 posts, but with the oliver quality I would not worry. As far as width goes, probably 20" would be fine. I found the there was a big diffenence in the heft and quality of the 24" machines, and they seemed to be more popular on the used market, and so that is why I ended up with a 24" machine
lou

[Alan Turner]

In terms of size does matter, if you are into period pieces, note that many of the single slab tops and sides are just at or slightly over 20", and so the 24" makes a difference on those particular pieces.

[Paul Canaris]

Jim, what size Jointer do you have now and what size jointers have you worked with in the past?

[Alan Turner]

If Paul's question is a comment that a jointer and planer combination would ideally be the same width, I agree. On the other hand, there are a number of ways to skin the lack of wide jointer cat, but skinning the lack of wide planer feline is more troublesome. A hand plane, or a sled, will solve the wide jointer issue. A bit slow, but accurate and not expensive. But, the absence of a wide planer is tougher to address.