Hand Saw Question - Sandvik

[Joshua Fishbein]

While waiting for other things to resolve, I'm continuing to add to my small collection of hand tools and one of the next things that I need is a good hand saw. I found a local seller with a mint condition Sandvik 277 at 7T/8P in the original sleeve. He is holding firm at $45. I wasn't sure if that was a good price or if I should move on. He's also got a Tyzack in the same condition, but much more plain looking than the Sandvik. That one he is asking $35.

The Sandvik looks as though it is set for crosscut, and the Tyzack, even though the slip says crosscut, definitely looks like it's set for rip cut. Then again, as this is all new to me, I could be wrong (even though my observations are based on info I have found on the Internet). Would one of those be better than the other as a first? Are those prices fair? I could offer him $60 for both since he did seem a little more willing to move multiple items.

What do you guys think?

Here is a photo of the Sandvik:
321765

[Stewie Simpson]

Joshua. The swedish made Sandvik 277 should be an excellent hand saw. Mint condition IMO its well worth the price tag being asked. The Tyzack is more than likely of an earlier vintage than the Sandvik 277, and seems a fair price in the same mint condition. Without a photo its difficult to track its likely vintage, but it may be listed within the following 1921 catalogue. http://www.tyzack.net/Saws.pdf

Stewie;

[Tom M King]

Those Sandvik handsaws are my favorite saws. They were sold new up into the early 1980's at least. The ones I bought new back then weren't taken the best care of when I was young and foolish, so I've been delighted to find NOS ones. I don't buy them for the handles. I use handsaws a lot in my work, and have maybe a dozen or more of the 270 through 288 model numbers in various tpi. I don't see any difference in the metal. They still show up fairly often as NOS. I can get them as sharp, or sharper, as the old American saws, and they hold the edge longer. I can cut all the siding for a house in Cypress with one sharpening on a 10 pointer.

Picture below is Cypress siding on a house I built in 1991. All cuts were with a 270 10 pt., marked with a preacher and one untouched cut.321766You can push lightly with a fingertip, and each board is free to move. Nail holes for stainless nails were all drilled to allow movement.

[Jim Koepke]

Since there are already enough saws of this kind in my shop, my opinion is less than best.

One the pricing, the seller doesn't want to budge on the Sandvik. When you offer $60 he will think he is getting the $45 for the Sandvik and only $15 for the Tyzack.

If that doesn't feel like a slap up the side of the head to him, he may take it or make a counter offer.

Some people are stubborn when it comes to selling their things. Maybe see if he will come down on the Tyzack first and then see if he will come down $5 more on the bundle deal.

jtk

[Tom M King]

That Sandvik is easily worth the 45 bucks. The Tyzack I'd pass on anyway unless you have a real need for it. The Sandvik should be ready to go to work, and probably won't need the first sharpening for a good while. It's a very fast cutting 8 point just like it is, and will be great for breaking down lengths of boards. It does leave a bit of a rough edge like it comes out of the sleeve, but it's not a finish saw. If it is indeed unused, it will cut a normal spruce/pine 2x4 in eight strokes, and be a little faster with a good hand sharpening.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Looks like a good deal on the Sandvik (looks to be in real nice shape). As posted, it may be a bit coarse, so you may want to also find a 10 or 11 tpi cross cut.

[Stew Denton]

Hi Josh,

I remember seeing Sandvik saws in a few of the better tool catalogs back in the '80s. They were the premium saw line that at least one or two of the catalogs offered at that time. I do remember that a Sandvik handsaw of that type sold for more in the tool catalogs back then than what the guy is asking for it now.

In my view, considering the condition, the reputation of the saw, the price years ago and all, I would think that he is asking a very fair price. It is not a steal, but considering what you are getting, I think it is a bargain price. In my view, that saw is worth more than what he is asking, and you are likely getting a very good saw with no rehab needed.

For me, it is fun to see what the guys find and tell us about in their rust hunts, and the prices that they get are wonderful at times. That said, I think those kinds of deals are pretty few, and far between.

For me, it kind of depends on the situation. If I am looking for a tool that is a big hole in my shop, and I would use a great deal if I had it, and every time I need that tool I do what I can to make do with something else, I would never pass up a deal like that Sandvik. On the other hand, if it is just a tool that would be nice to have, but I am not in rush to get it, and there was a good probability that another will show up at a better price within a few months, I would wait.

With regard to his "holding firm" on the price, it likely tells you that he knows that his price is already more than fair, and that he believes that it will sell relatively quickly at his asking price, so he is in no hurry to make you a deal.

Stew

[Reinis Kanders]

Try Irwin Jack saw. Graham Haydon has a video about it on youtube. It cannot be sharpened, but it cuts well and can be found for cheap if you setup a price alert on Amzaon. I paid $11 a couple of months ago, right now it is $18.
It really cuts well and kerf size is reasonable, it cuts better out of the box than new PAX panel saw of similar size I got from the best things. Pax saw is pretty decent, but definitely needed sharpening when bought. This way you do not need to learn to sharpen in the begining and you will now how a decent sharp saw feels.
http://www.amazon.com/10505212-Irwin-Universal-Panel-Teeth/dp/B000C79HPA

[Tom M King]

Sorry, but there is no comparison between a hard toothed saw and a decent regular handsaw. Every Pax saw I've ever seen didn't come sharp to start with. The only two Pax saws I own are ones I bought new 35 years ago when I didn't know better. They can be sharpened, but don't come sharp. The Sandvik saw in this thread will cut decently right out of the sleeve with only the factory made teeth on it. I have a hard toothed saw that I keep in the toolbox on my truck for things I don't want to put good teeth into, but there is no way you can make the cuts on the siding in the picture I put in this thread with a hard toothed saw, whereas you can with a factory fresh 10 pt. Sandvik. They are better than factory with a good hand sharpening, but cut better than most right out of the sleeve, and for a respectable amount of time. Ask Graham if he doesn't believe I'm correct.

[Joshua Fishbein]

Thanks for all the responses.

I ended up picking up both saw, and what is either a type 16 or type 19 no. 3 Stanley Bailey plane. All in all I ended up paying $85 for the lot, which I think was fair. The two saws look basically unused, with the sleeves in decent condition. The no. 3 will need a little bit of work, but is in pretty decent condition. That will give me something to practice sharpening and tuning before I attempt doing anything to the LN stuff I've got coming.

Oh, and the Tyzack is a Nonpareil No. 154 with a tooth count of 4 1/2P. The sleeve says it is set for crosscut, but the teeth look to me like what I would expect from a rip cut saw. The 8P Sandvik's teeth look more like crosscut teeth to me, but then again I'm pretty green to this stuff, so I could be wrong.

Here are some photos of the saws. The photos with the white/orange are the Sandvik and the green is the Tyzack.

[Joshua Fishbein]

Forgot this one...

[Stew Denton]

Josh,

The Sandvik teeth look that they are definitely filed crosscut from what I can see, and the Tyzack teeth look like they are filed rip. The 4 1/2 teeth values are very typical for a rip saw. It looks like the Sandvik has very little set, and the Tyzack has more set than I like to see in a rip saw. Both saws look to be in great shape. If they saw as well as they look, you should be in good shape.


Stew

[Reinis Kanders]

That particular Irwin saw is good. I have tried other hardend teeth saws and they are not as good, usually kerf is too big and maybe rougher exit side of the cut.
Other weekend I built a small shed with only Irwin saw and nail gun.
No doubt, Sandvik is usually better, but I was really impressed by that Irwin panel saw. I have a bunch of Sandviks and they are not bad, but the newer one that came in sleeve and looked unused had a way too large of a set for dry wood.
I am no expert though and my saw sharpening skills are subpar.



Sorry, but there is no comparison between a hard toothed saw and a decent regular handsaw. Every Pax saw I've ever seen didn't come sharp to start with. The only two Pax saws I own are ones I bought new 35 years ago when I didn't know better. They can be sharpened, but don't come sharp. The Sandvik saw in this thread will cut decently right out of the sleeve with only the factory made teeth on it. I have a hard toothed saw that I keep in the toolbox on my truck for things I don't want to put good teeth into, but there is no way you can make the cuts on the siding in the picture I put in this thread with a hard toothed saw, whereas you can with a factory fresh 10 pt. Sandvik. They are better than factory with a good hand sharpening, but cut better than most right out of the sleeve, and for a respectable amount of time. Ask Graham if he doesn't believe I'm correct.

[Jim Koepke]

As Stew said, your assessment of the teeth looks correct.

Here is a good site for information about saw tooth shapes that may be of interest:

http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/frameset.cgi?left=main&right=/library/library.html

jtk

[Stewie Simpson]

http://flickrhivemind.net/flickr_hvmnd.cgi?method=GET&page=1&photo_number=50&tag_mode=all&originput=sandvikens&search_type=Tags&sorting=Interestingness&photo_type=250&noform=t&search_domain=Tags&sort=Interestingness&textinput=sandvikens