Is it worth it??

[Simon OConnor]

I currently have a Jet DC-650 dust collector that I retrofitted a canister filter to.I have a y connector with two blast gates. One leads via a short length of flexible hose to my unisaw, though it is sometimes connected to my jet 13" planer/molder. The other branch runs along a 10' run of rigid pipe and then has a flexible connection to my DJ-20, or is plugged into my bandsaw.

The problem is that the dust collector is a bit underpowered for my needs, particularly the Jet JPM-13CS planer. I typically get quite a few chips on the floor.

I have been thinking of upgrading to a JDS-14040 dust collector, which is rated at 1250cfm (the jet is 650cfm).

The question I wanted to ask was, is this worth the upgrade? I know manufacturers inflate their dust collector claims. I am not able right now to go for a cyclone type collector, and what I have now is servicable even if it is underpowered. Would I notice a sginificant difference between the two units or am I better of waiting till I have the space/budget to install a cyclone?

Thanks

Simon

[Donnie Raines]

Yes, it is worth it. However, I have no knowledge of the unit from JDS( I know the name...just never seen one in use). I owned a 650 unit and upgraded to the Jet 1100....big diffrence.

[Bob Johnson2]

I've got one of the newer Delta 1200 cfm models and find it works well with my 15" planer. Not to say I don't get a handfull of chips on the floor, but it must pull in 99% of them. I'm running it with 20' of 4", which I had get blocked on me last week at one point while waiting too long to empty the bags. I was waiting for them to be full and should probably have emptied them at the 3/4 levels. If I were to go to something bigger then the 4" it'd probably work even better, maybe someday...

[Tom Jones III]

I have a dust gorilla (approx 1400 cfm) running through 6" metal ducting ending with a 4" blast gate and about 3' of flex hose going to a Jet 13" planer/molder. I still get some chips on the floor.

I think 2 things will help in my situation, the dust hood on the planer is a little weird, requiring the chips to make an almost 90* turn to exit the planer. I would like to build (or buy) a new dust hood that pulls chips directly up and out of the planer without requiring a sharp turn. Second, I would like for this hood to have a 6" port.

So the short answer, simply increasing power will not make your planer completely clean. Given your current power it may help a little.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, the upgrade will help with your situation. But a note about the CFM "ratings" on these machines...they are bogus and represent "Free Air" measurements...no filters and no duct. Actual CFM performance is more like half...under ideal conditions...what the vendor says it is.

[Keith Burns]

Keep in mind that machine makers don't really take dust collection into account so their hoods always leave something to be desired. That being said, I don't care how much air you have, you will always have chips on the floor. The main thing I look for is dust in the air. Some chips on the floor are ok but a cloud of dust, no. Anyway I had three 600 cfm units in my shop piped to my equipment and swapped it out for one 1100 cfm unit and it works great.

[Donnie Raines]

Yes, the upgrade will help with your situation. But a note about the CFM "ratings" on these machines...they are bogus and represent "Free Air" measurements...no filters and no duct. Actual CFM performance is more like half...under ideal conditions...what the vendor says it is.

How do you really no what the unit is capable of drawing? If it states 1100...should be assume half??...our is there some hidden language on the machine that would help us define the actualy cfm's?

[Roy Wall]

How do you really no what the unit is capable of drawing? If it states 1100...should be assume half??...our is there some hidden language on the machine that would help us define the actualy cfm's?

I've got the hint from Oneida they call it "working load"....which is typically 200-250 cfm LESS than the max. machine rating....

[Mike Weaver]

How do you really no what the unit is capable of drawing? If it states 1100...should be assume half??...our is there some hidden language on the machine that would help us define the actualy cfm's?

Donnie,

Unfortunately, I don't know of any hidden language...

What would be a good start is to get a fan curve from the vendor. That would show CFM versus Static Pressure - then you can deduce from your ducting the max CFM from a given machine.

What also has to be considered though is back pressure (additional static pressure) from the filters you use.

At least the fan curve would be a real start.

It used to be that Woodworker's Warehouse had fan curves in their print catalog - I haven't checked their website. If you picked a similar machine (they sell Woodtek brand), that might be a starting point should the vendor not have a fan curve available (assuming same impeller size & motor HP).

Hope that helps,
-Mike

[Tom Jones III]

The point about dust in the air vs. chips is well made. I should have added that with the gorilla, I still get a few chips on the floor but the air is nice and clean. Previously I had a cheap 650 (advertised) CFM DC and the planer would leave a noticeable amount of dust in the air.

[Jim Becker]

How do you really no what the unit is capable of drawing? If it states 1100...should be assume half??...our is there some hidden language on the machine that would help us define the actualy cfm's?

Donnie, as stated by others, there is no "hidden language". But anecdotal "evidence" in the writings of others knowledgable on the subject, several years of forum posts on the same and commentary by industry leaders and publications suggest that "half" of the free-air rating isn't a horrible assumption to make. There are so many variables, however, and "your mileage may vary". The main point is that you will not get the "1100" or "650" CFM that the names and marketing materials of these machines insinuate...it's kinda like that horsepower thing that a certain mass marketer made a major art of over the years... ;)

[Donnie Raines]

Thanks gents. To be honest, I always "trusted" that the unit was what it said it was....imagine that. I guess you can learn something new everyday... ;) :rolleyes: :D

[Simon OConnor]

Thanks for all the responses. My limited understanding was that the bigger the actual fan the more air it would suck in, so going from a (I think) 9" diam on the 650 to a 11" on the JDS should make a difference, I just wasn't sure how much.

The JDS states it has 1250cfm and 12" of static pressure, which is about 4" higher than most of the other stated static pressures. For example the new Delta is rated at 8" and 1200cfm. Though I am not really sure what the static pressure really means. My 650 is stated to have 6.5" static pressure.

Does this mean I could get roughly twice the suction with the new unit??

[Tom Jones III]

Your shop vac has enormous static pressure but very small volume. Even though the static pres. on your shop vac is one or two orders of magnitude higher than my dust gorilla, I would never try to use a shop vac as a DC for my planer.

OTOH, there is a 1" dust port on my biscuit joiner. Even though my gorilla has much higher volume than the biscuit joiner requires, I have never tried to hook it up to the 1" port on the biscuit joiner. The shop vac works great in this situation due to its high static pressure.

You are correct that the bigger the fan the more air volume. However you will quickly reach capacity on 4" pipe and the bigger fan is just wasted unless you get bigger ducting and better machine ports.

[Jeff Harder]

I have been researching the JDS as well. Within the last week Woodcraft's website changed the static pressure of this machine to 7.7" instead of 12". I am going to get the Delta 50-760, it is a good machine.

[Steven Wilson]

I would hold out on upgrading until you can get a cyclone (i.e. the Dust Gorilla). I went from a Jet DC650 to a Oneida 2hp commercial. The air in my shop is cleaner than the air in my house ! One of the telltale clues to effective CFM is the size of the impellor; 12" is really about the minimum for effective dust collection and 14" or greater is better. The 1100 machines (Jet, Delta, Grizzly) are at the margin (good for moving from machine to machine < 10' flex), their 1200 machines are a bit better and can be effectively used in a fixed DC setup. In either case, the machines need decent duct work and 4" just won't cut it (try 5" or 6").