How to use backer veneer on a side table

[Adam Aron]

Hi, I'm new to veneering. I've read a veneering book and watched videos only. My project is to make a side table with a solid top that has a construction similar to this:
321661

I've been advised to use a backer veneer in addition to the main veneer for stability. However, I'd be gluing the pieces for the skirt and legs directly to the backer veneer, and that doesn't seem right. Or maybe this is just fine... Can someone please advise me a little on how to use a backer veneer on a side table that is similar to the one in the image?

P.S. The veneer will be adhered to the alder top using a veneer vacuum press and Weldwood plastic resin glue.

Thanks, Adam

[John TenEyck]

You should not glue the aprons/legs to the top when using a solid wood top. Use some means of mechanical attachment that allowed for seasonal expansion/contraction.

John

[Matt Day]

Does your design have individual pieces of wood instead of a panel? Spaces in between?

[Adam Aron]

Does your design have individual pieces of wood instead of a panel? Spaces in between?

No, it is a panel... 3 boards glued up.

[Adam Aron]

You should not glue the aprons/legs to the top when using a solid wood top. Use some means of mechanical attachment that allowed for seasonal expansion/contraction.

Makes sense. I wonder what joining technique I should use...

[Frank Drew]

Adam,

Does the drawing accurately describe the understructure you plan to make?

[Matt Day]

For mechanical attachment, I'd recommend this type:
http://www.leevalley.com/us/Hardware/page.aspx?p=40146&cat=3,43715,43726&ap=1

[Adam Aron]

Adam,

Does the drawing accurately describe the understructure you plan to make?

Not necessarily. I'm still trying to nail down a design. I'm a novice and it was the first one I found without complex construction techniques. My equipment isn't extensive. I think it is best for me to make the understructure out of all simple rectangular pieces. I can use a CNC router for something more complex if needed. Thanks.

[Kevin Nathanson]

Adam,

Just for clarity's sake... Are you planning on veneering the (three board glue-up) top?

If so, that's somewhat different from what most people do with veneer. Using veneer would let you use a stable, non-moving substrate like plywood or MDF for the top. The three board top is NOT a stable substrate, and it is going to try (and inevitably succeed) to move under the veneer as the seasons—and moisture content in the air—change. When it moves, the veneer won't; instead it will crack, peel, buckle, etc. All bad stuff!

The idea of backer veneer is that when you glue veneer to one side of a panel it changes the 'load' and moisture on that side, so it is a good idea to put backer veneer on the other side of the panel to balance out the panel by introducing that same type of change to the other side. This keeps the panel from bowing because of the 'tug' from only one side being veneered. With both sides veneered, the tug is still there, but it is in balance, like on both sides of a balance scale when you weigh things, so the board won't distort. That entire concept though does require a stable substrate; to veneer the glued up boards is just asking for trouble! (As well as a waste of probably expensive wood.)

As far as attaching the legs and aprons, just gluing those would be a pretty unusual way to attach them to the top, even if you do use a plywood or MDF substrate for the top. Most STABLE tops are attached by either wood joinery (mortise & tenon, etc.; THOSE are glued up, but there is some sort of penetration of the table top, so you would not be gluing to the backer veneer, but rather into a 'hole' in the top) or by hardware. If you have a moveable top (the three boards) then you pretty much HAVE to use what is called 'floating' hardware (buttons, slots, etc.) to allow the top to move seasonally independently from the base. If you don't, then once again separation and failure will occur, but this time the top will break free of the base, or if the base is 'stronger' the the top, the top will crack or buckle.

K

[J.R. Rutter]

Seems like your original question is taken care of by using hardware to attach the top.

I have had success with using thick veneers (1/16" +) laid up with the grain all going in the same direction, but unless you know the moisture content of everything it can be risky. Commercially available lumber core plywood uses cross grain layers under the face layers.

It does seem to beg the question: Why veneer at all, instead of using solid wood?