Pricing? HelpPlease!!

[chuck shaw]

I have a morntech 5040 laser engraver with all the extras and CorelDraw x5, photograv 2.0 and allot of supplies. My cousin and we have a school wanting some glasses with the school football logo, players name and their position etched on them on both sides of the glass. the etchings are about 2-1/2" tall x 3-1/2" wide, they also want a football helmet etched into the bottom of each glass with the players number.

Now the glasses only cost about .80 cents each and the time it takes to engrave 1 glass (both sides & bottom) is around 13minutes (laser time and setup) I was figuring $15.00 to $17.50 for each glass but they only want to spend $10.00.

What would be a good price for these?

I'm having trouble uploading an image but on one side would have the helmet and under that would say center grove and Trojans under that but a larger font. the other side would have the players name, under that their # and under that their position.

[Kev Williams]

Why the same thing on both sides of the glass, makes little sense and it'll just muddy up the works with both images visible. If they drop that option your time will be right in their $10 ballpark...

[Gary Hair]

Now the glasses only cost about .80 cents each
You need to mark up the cost of the glasses, a general rule seems to be about 3-4x cost ~ $2.40


and the time it takes to engrave 1 glass (both sides & bottom) is around 13minutes (laser time and setup)
You need to come up with a cost per minute that works for you - a good ballpark is $2.00/min ~ $26.00


I was figuring $15.00 to $17.50 for each glass
For the time you have into them that is way too low. Either you need to produce them faster or charge more.


but they only want to spend $10.00.

That really has nothing to do with it. I want to buy a Ferrari but only want to spend $20,000 - think the dealer will go for it? This is also like the customer that I'm going to charge $35 to engrave their item and they complain that they only paid $2.00 for it and how can it be $35 to engrave it? I have no control over their budget or how much they paid for their item, I have complete control over what my time and equipment are worth. I've spent about $100K on equipment, I'm not going to make $15/hour...


What would be a good price for these?

For me to engrave three separate images on a glass would run somewhere between $20 and $30 each.

[chuck shaw]

I completely agree with you but my cousin on the other hand is thinking his kid will see more playing time if I agree to their price. I know for a fact the parents can afford to pay what little I'm asking and I don't think I'm being unreasonable at $17.50 each.

[Mark Sipes]

"my cousin on the other hand is thinking his kid will see more playing time if I agree to their price."


You are being held hostage by your cousin? fine let him pay the difference ..... Now you both win............

[chuck shaw]

That's a good one I'm going to run that by him. He'll cry but I'll be happy!!

[David Somers]

Chuck,

How many glasses do you need to do? Not sure if it is worth it, but have you though about using your laser to cut resists and using a sandblaster for the etching? Of course, that assumes you have access to a blaster. There are lots of discussions about that on SMC.

Dave

[Kev Williams]

First of all, which I didn't mention before- not sure why it's taking 13 minutes per glass, my machine will sweep a 3" x 3" area in about 2-1/2 minutes @ 400 LPI, so 5 minutes plus 1/2 minute changeover, then 1:30 per glass to do the bottom, including changeover...

But that's my machine... :)

SO--Assuming you don't have a bunch of jobs waiting to go in the laser after the glasses are done, what's better:

Insisting on $15 or $20 per glass and making $0

or-

Make a little less profit than normal but still have some $$ to put in the bank, and maybe some word-of-mouth goodwill you wouldn't have otherwise?

I will ALWAYS do a job for less money if the alternative is NO money. But, my biz is me, the wife and a BIL (sub-contractor), we have no employees so I have more cushion than others when it comes to pricing, so there's that, but still...

And speaking of word-of-mouth, in 49 years, aside from paying a few bucks a year to put our name (not an ad) in the yellow pages in the old days, we've never spent a dime on advertising.

[chuck shaw]

You make a good argument on the word of mouth, I really haven't used my machine or the programs all that much, maybe a total of 6 hours playing around on it and I could get the time down considerably, the time I posted was for the practice glasses (3 of them) The money isn't really a big concern to me, I'm doing this for my cousin since his wife recently got layed off work so I was joking about him paying the difference. and to tell the truth this will be the first thing I've actually done on this machine, I've had it for about 2 years now and it's just been a dust collector until now. but I want to start making various items with it like custom coffee & end tables with granite tops with country or animal scenes engraved into multiple tiles.

[Ross Moshinsky]

Are you going to be able to produce the product? Glass is tricky and you have little to no experience engraving at all let alone doing glass. Combine that with a Chinese laser and I'm slightly concerned for you. You won't build a good reputation doing bad quality work.

As for the pricing: You can make money at $10 but I'd tell them for that price they can get only one side. Convince them it's the best option. It's your call, but if you want to run a business, you need to set up boundaries. Your customer has every right to name a budget but it's your job to tell them what they can afford for that price.

[Bert Kemp]

Totally agree with Ross on the glass and experience factor. Glass is hard to do with any kind of consistency. Many people here with years of laser experience won't do glass at all and the few who do it with any regularity have been doing it for years and will tell you it took them years to get it right. If your going to charge $10 or more per glass I hope its a quality piece of work. Good Luck with this, show us some pictures and let us know how it works out for you.

[Matt Geraci]

I sandblast and do tons of glassware. My engraving into glass is very deep and detailed. $13-20 per glass minimum. That's one sided and possibly doing the bottoms, not to mention a $2-$3 add on for personalizing each glass with a different number. Anything less and you're diluting your efforts and undercutting anyone else's prices.

I would say, if you're going to be a "benefactor" take the money they offer to "cover basic costs", make sure it's understood that they're getting a deal. Then enjoy playing around and making cool stuff, use this job as a resume bullet to get the word out that you can do this kind of stuff. Ask them in return to advertise for you by putting your logo/add/phone#/website in their football program and school paper. I donate work a lot and in return most folks send me customers or advertise for me which widens my customer base and brings in paying jobs.

Pricing items is challenging at times, do charitable work and help people out, but don't put yourself in the poor house because folks can't "afford" your work. Best of luck!

[Clark Pace]

Also remember someone who has experience may be able to produce the product in less time due to experience with the product. Be prepared to fail a few times before you get it right. And that can be lost profits.

[Tim Bateson]

Doing work for little or no profit will NOT get you more business.... Unless you want to continue producing at little to no profit. Take Ross's advice.

[Jerome Stanek]

Also take into account where you live. Different parts of the country have different pay scales.

[Keith Winter]

I totally agree with Gary.
Additionally I'd eliminate the variable text (do the logo only) and only do one side. Tell him if he makes those changes you can meet his budget. Break out the charges! If he wants variable text that's an extra $3.50 and an extra side is $xx.xx so it's $10 if he does it your way (will take much less time for you this way) or xyz price if he wants it with all the extras.

I have to point this out as well. If he's being this picky and demanding now. Chances are he won't be happy with the glasses when you are done. Sounds like a real "problem customer". Not sure I'd want his business...

[Steve Morris]

Gary's right. If you start with mates rates you will be doing mates rates all the time.

[Mark Sipes]

"I have a morntech 5040 laser engraver with all the extras and CorelDraw x5, photograv 2.0 and allot of supplies."

Why did you buy the machine???? Hobby, or business? so far all I hear is Hobby......

Hobbies are not profit based.... Most of the time they don't even pay for the investment and of course your time is paid back in the pleasure of helping others..


..

[AL Ursich]

Also be aware of copyright issues with the art you do. You can find this topic here in a search talking about the cease and desist letters. Can you afford to loose your house?

AL

[chuck shaw]

Thanks to everyone for the input, I've told my cousin I wouldn't do those for that price and over the weekend he "decided" he wanted to make some beer mugs for the coaches after their 200-th win and I agreed to help him out and do 3 but after 6 mugs and not being satisfied with the size of the font or the font itself I told him enough. and never did do the actual glasses themselves! I did feel bad afterwards since he would do anything for me without hesitation and has without being asked. so I'll probably do 4 to 5 more with different fonts and sizes this week to make him feel better, I just wish he wouldn't do so much for these people trying to gain their respect He's spent way too much of his own money making mont-blac pens and other items that they could care less about. but he loves his son and thinks it benefits him on the team. sorry just ranting a little.

[Kev Williams]

Nothing more fun than spending an hour laying out a bunch of graphics how a customer asks, only to have them want you to 'move that bird' a few microns and 'that horse looks too close to that tree'... and... and... and...
http://www.engraver1.com/gifs/pullinghair.gif

If I run into customers (family or otherwise) who don't like what I'M doing, I tell them I have other stuff to do around here too, and to find a computer or a piece of paper and design it themselves how they want it to look. Sometimes they do, sometimes not :)

[Jerome Stanek]

Nothing more fun than spending an hour laying out a bunch of graphics how a customer asks, only to have them want you to 'move that bird' a few microns and 'that horse looks too close to that tree'... and... and... and...
http://www.engraver1.com/gifs/pullinghair.gif


If I run into customers (family or otherwise) who don't like what I'M doing, I tell them I have other stuff to do around here too, and to find a computer or a piece of paper and design it themselves how they want it to look. Sometimes they do, sometimes not :)

I always ask them do they want it a $1000 to the left or a $1000 to right

[Jay Selway]

I completely agree with you but my cousin on the other hand is thinking his kid will see more playing time if I agree to their price. I know for a fact the parents can afford to pay what little I'm asking and I don't think I'm being unreasonable at $17.50 each.

This is exactly why I never do business with friends or family.