A Signing Dilemma

[Dan Case LR]

I have a small piece of simple ribbon sculpture (a Mobius) that is complete, nicely finished, and ready for delivery. Just one small problem. I forgot to sign it before I finished it.

The piece is about 11" long, with a 2 3/4" ribbon about 1/8" thick. The wood is Sipo. The finish is several coats of wipe-on poly over a waxless shellac sanding sealer, with a final touch of Renaissance wax polish.

I usually sign a piece like this with a very fine-tipped Sharpie, with small lettering along the edge. I haven't tried it, but I suspect that a sharpie would wipe off this surface like a dry erase marker. I have a woodburner (Colwood Detailer) and have experimented with signing work with it, but I'm not happy with that yet and am not sure how the finish will react to the hot pen--and this isn't a piece to experiment with.

if I take part of this down to are wood to sign it, I'll probably end up sanding the whole thing to that level and refinishing it. I can do that if necessary, but would like to avoid the extra work if possible. That being said, it is very important that this piece be signed and even more important that I not screw it up in the process.

Anyone have an idea or three?

Thanks!

D.

[Sean Hughto]

Get a small contrasting bit of wood, sign it and carefully embed it.

See the lower right:

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8446/7922633698_146c1abfbf_k.jpg

[David Walser]

Could someone with a laser-engraver "sign" the piece for you? If not that, I'd check with an artist's supply house to see if they have a marker that is permanent on top of poly.

[Mel Fulks]

I'd use an archive quality acid free pen.

[Dan Case LR]

I'd use an archive quality acid free pen.


Would that last on top of poly?

D.

[Mel Fulks]

It would last in the sense of not fading or slowly spreading into indistinct blurring and will not eat into surface. I should have more clear. Easy to find more specifics on line.

[Sean Hughto]

More alternatives:

Use an engraving pen and then fill the engraved words and date etc. with contrasting paint.

Carve your mark in using a knife or carving tools.

[Dwight Rutherford]

I use archival pens to sign my work and yes you can sign on top of Poly. I would clean the wax off first then re-apply after the iink drys. Try it on a scrap that has Poly on it to make sure you will be happy with the results.

[Steve Peterson]

Would that last on top of poly?

See if you can put another coat of poly over it. That should seal it in. It might be best if you can spray the poly to reduce the risk of smearing it. Shouldn't take too much effort to try it on a piece of scrap.

Steve

[Randy Red Bemont]

See if you can put another coat of poly over it. That should seal it in. It might be best if you can spray the poly to reduce the risk of smearing it. Shouldn't take too much effort to try it on a piece of scrap.

Steve

This is what I would try.

Red

[Len Mullin]

Dan, it would last if you were to apply another layer of poly over the top of the marker.
Len

[Bob Bergstrom]

I've useed my pyro burner on low heat to melt my signeture into the finish and then use "rub and buff" or colored wax to color it in. If the finish is raised you can flatten it with fine sand paper or steel wool.

[John Sincerbeaux]

Try this..... Don't sign it.

[Tom Giacomo]

321709Having made several Mobius type ribbons I found they do not normally stand up for display so I construct a stand to display them. Then I use the stand to sign my mark on the back of the stand.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

Use an engraving pen and then fill the engraved words and date etc. with contrasting paint.

I'm with Sean - engraving works very well. a Dremel engraver is very cheap, easy to do and best of all, it's absolutely permanent. Either re-shape the tip they supply or replace it with an old HSS drill bit that's the right size and sharpened to a long, tapered point. If the point is to hide it, you can do it in an out of the way place. It's surprising how small you can sign - with a little practice on scrap, It's unobtrusive, easily hidden and doesn't require you to screw around with the finish. If you want a little contrast and visibility, either use a little guilder's paste, liming wax or just plain ol' Johnson's paste wax with any color pigment you like mixed in.
Personally, I prefer the piece to speak for itself and require that those who are interested search out the maker's mark.

[steve worcester]

Acid free marker works fine over finish, except wax.

It is rare to see an engraved or burned signature that looks like a signature, which is what you want.

[Pat Scott]

The simpliest and quickest solution is go to your artist supply store and get a Sharpie Paint pen. They come in different colors and it is permanent and won't rub off. This is what a professional turner that I know uses on all of his pieces. He finishes his pieces, waxes and buff, and when all done then he signs them. Sharpie Paint pens say "Sharpie Paint" on them, so you can't confuse them with regular Sharpies.

[Dale Miner]

More alternatives:

Use an engraving pen and then fill the engraved words and date etc. with contrasting paint.

Carve your mark in using a knife or carving tools.

This is best.

Pyro over finish will make a mess that is near impossible to make right.

The archival pens that I've tried wiped off the finish with light finger pressure.

[David C. Roseman]

I use archival pens to sign my work and yes you can sign on top of Poly. I would clean the wax off first then re-apply after the iink drys. Try it on a scrap that has Poly on it to make sure you will be happy with the results.

Dan, this. The archival pens will write right over the cured WOP, no problem. I would remove the existing coat of Ren Wax just on the area where you will sign, by wiping gently with mineral spirits. When you reapply the Ren Wax, coat lightly without much rubbing as you apply. Once dry, you can buff lightly by hand.

I've used this technique with these same materials numerous times with no problems. In fact, unless the wood is exceptionally close grained, I usually like to apply a first coat of WOP as a matter of course before signing, to make sure the ink doesn't blur due to the pores. Then I follow with another light coat of WOP. So long as I don't rub, I don't have the problem Dale describes.

If you don't already have them, you can get the archival pens at Michaels and other arts/crafts stores. I prefer the "fine" and "super fine" points for most small items.

[Thom Sturgill]

I use either a cool iron, or if I need to sign a dark area, an engraver. Fill the engraving with colored wax. I use one of the 'crayons' made for furniture touch ups to fill the engraving, but metallic 'rub & buff' would work well too. As was said with the archival pen, if you can seal it under a bit of sprayed on finish, that works too.

[Dan Case LR]

A big thank you to all who weighed in on this. I picked up a 3-pack of black archival pens at a local artist supply retailer and conducted several tests. They are remarkable! once dry, the ink ignored mineral spirits even with a fairly good rub. after 30-40 minutes dry time, wipe-on poly didn't faze it either. The results were so impressive that i carefully removed the wax from my piece and signed it with the 0.5mm pen. It looked perfect. Then, I hit it with a couple quick spray of poly, trying to hit just on the area with the ink. Looked good, but a bit too shiny to match the rest of the piece so I hit it with a little 0000 steel wool (that I'd used to buff the rest of the piece). Looked good, until I noticed that the title of the piece wasn't there anymore.

Important life lesson: One thing archival ink pens can't stand up to is steel wool. Arrgh! Removed the rest of the signing an started over. Tried it one more time with the spray poly and experienced similar results.

I erased with steel wool again and gave it one more shot, this time using a light hit with the same wipe-on poly as used on the rest of the piece, but only on the inked text (along one curved edge, easy to hit it and nothing else). Looked great, but as it began to dry I could see that I'd have to use the steel wool to blend it as I did with the other 2 attempts. In a fit of brilliance, I grabbed one of my "box of rags" paper towels and buffed the nearly-dry new poly a little. It blended nicely, and while the poly film may be a little thinner over the signed edge than I'd like, I decided it would be fine since it's an art piece (as opposed to a practical piece used to hold thins, washed , wiped, etc).

Of course If I had it to do over again, I'd have signed it before the first swipe of poly touched it. If I had to do it again, I'd try one of the Sharpie Paint Pens. I've seen things signed with one, but didn't think about it until Pat suggested it. Thanks, Pat. I'll have a couple of them in my drawer for the next time I forget to sign a piece before finishing.

I like the possibilities presented by a pyro pen, but the more I experimented with it the more I could see it's not for me. It may be vanity, but the right flair on the signature is part of the art that you just can't do with pyro--or at least I can't (ymmv).

Thanks, all!

D.

[Mel Fulks]

And thanks,Dan, for letting us know how it worked out. The pens are available in several width of line sizes,so read the fine print when shopping.