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Matthew N. Masail
09-15-2015, 8:28 PM
I bought a Gramercy Sash saw about 6 mouths back. it's beautiffuly made, however the handle is totally oversized for my hands. I find that my hand cannot get secure barely with 4 fingers in so I just don't use the saw. today the need for a deeper saw actually came up so I decided I've got to do something about this because it's my only deep backsaw. however since it's such an expensive saw, I wanted to ask your advice, should I:

1. spend the effort and make a new handle, would probably take me a while to get to it.

2. sell the saw and buy __________ (saw of your recommendation)

I'll add that both the Veritas and LN saw handles fit great and feel very comfortable. the Gramercy is no doubt bigger.

I'll also add that I cannot return it, it has small ding on the handle and it was bought locally so no super-customer-service available.

Jim Koepke
09-15-2015, 8:45 PM
Can you modify the handle to better fit your hand?

My problem is most saw handles are a bit tight. Often a bit of work with a rasp or spoke shave followed by sandpaper can work it into a better fit.

jtk

lowell holmes
09-15-2015, 9:20 PM
I bet you can buy a saw handle from Lie Nielsen. I needed one to replace a broken handle and it came within 10 days(? or there about).

On second thought, I would modify the Gramercy handle to suit my needs.

Matthew N. Masail
09-15-2015, 9:35 PM
How would I modify a handle that is already too big ?

I'll need to check if saw nut line up, if by any chance they do I'd be happy to buy LN handle! Thanks for the idea.

Jim Koepke
09-15-2015, 9:40 PM
How would I modify a handle that is already too big ?

I'll need to check if saw nut line up, if by any chance they do I'd be happy to buy LN handle! Thanks for the idea.

This is where pictures help. My guess from your response is the length between the horns is too long instead of the distance around the handle being to big for your fingers to wrap around.

jtk

lowell holmes
09-16-2015, 12:27 AM
Matthew,

It is not a difficult task to make handles. Matthew Cianci's video to build a backsaw covers the task well. You can download his video from the Popular Woodworking web site.

After you start making them, the herd grows quickly.

That way, you can get the handle you want.

Mike Brady
09-16-2015, 10:14 AM
I disagree about the comment that saw handles are "not hard to make". I think it is very tricky to get a slot centered and straight in a handle; and getting the concentric screw holes aligned without an expensive stepped bit and a very good drill press is tricky, at best. I would go so far as to say that if you are only going to build a saw or two, don't make them. Just buy a couple of good saws from someone who already knows how and put your money into quality and experience instead of one-use specialized tools. This applies to other hand tools, such as planes, as well.

steven c newman
09-16-2015, 12:05 PM
One I make a while back....Sanvik plate needed a "better" handle
321543
I even used the plate to cut the slot. Found out a masonary drill bit will drill saw plates quite nicely.
Handle was shaped for my hand. Seems to do fairly well in crosscut mode.

Matthew N. Masail
09-16-2015, 12:23 PM
Thanks for all the advice. I like the challenge in making a good saw handle since I've never done it before, but I'm not overly happy about having to do it, or having to buy the right drill bits.

Jim, yes, my comment about 4 fingers is that even with 4 fingers firmly IN the handle, it's still way too big for me. the distance between horns is quite large.

lowell holmes
09-16-2015, 1:31 PM
Mike, actually the slot is not that difficult. If you make a block of wood that is one half of the handle thickness and 1/2 of the blade thickness, you can lay a pull saw flat on the block.
You allow the teeth of the pull saw to extend out over the edge of the spacer block. You push the handle back and forth, engaging the teeth on the saw, the slot will be exactly centered on the handle.

Matt Cianci demonstrates the technique in his video. As a matter of fact, he covers all of the issues you stated.

Barney Markunas
09-16-2015, 1:38 PM
Have you considered trying a three finger grip with your index finger pointing ahead parallel to the spine of the saw? You might also touch base with Joel at TWW - they may be able to give you some painless help with alternate sized handles.

Matthew N. Masail
09-16-2015, 1:42 PM
Barney, of course... if I hold it like one would hold a saw my hand just slips up and down the on the bump in the middle.

Derek Cohen
09-16-2015, 8:01 PM
Thanks for all the advice. I like the challenge in making a good saw handle since I've never done it before, but I'm not overly happy about having to do it, or having to buy the right drill bits......

Hi Matthew

Do not be deterred by the "need" for special drill bits. I do not have any. All you need is one - Forstner - that will enable you to recess the saw nut. You will be re-using all the existing hardware. Use the saw plate to position the holes, and then you do not need to drill the plate. That would otherwise be the only drill bit of significance - I have one in carbide for that task - and it can be bypassed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Jim Davis
09-16-2015, 8:41 PM
Mike, actually the slot is not that difficult. If you make a block of wood that is one half of the handle thickness and 1/2 of the blade thickness, you can lay a pull saw flat on the block....

Unless I am mistaken, the block should be half the handle thickness MINUS half the blade thickness...

lowell holmes
09-16-2015, 8:43 PM
Unless I am mistaken, the block should be half the handle thickness MINUS half the blade thickness...

You are absolutely correct. That's what I meant to say.

David Dalzell
09-16-2015, 10:30 PM
Perhaps you could try an old handgun shooters trick. Put wood putty around the saw grip. Hold the saw with a comfortable grip angle and pressure as though you were going to make a cut. Squeeze to form the damp putty to the shape/form you feel comfortable with. Set it aside to dry. When dry try a cut to see if you have gotten the handle size/form you want.

Ron Bontz
09-16-2015, 10:31 PM
Maybe a dumb question, but are you actually in Israel or the states? How soon would you need it? Just curious. You could also download the pattern and adjust the size of the grip area leaving the plate area the same. Just a thought. Best of luck.

Derek Cohen
09-16-2015, 11:33 PM
I bought a Gramercy Sash saw about 6 mouths back. it's beautiffuly made, however the handle is totally oversized for my hands. I find that my hand cannot get secure barely with 4 fingers in so I just don't use the saw....

Matthew, I have just re-read your post.

You mean this saw (14" long) ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/TenonGuide_html_m2a1fe460.jpg

You must have a small hand. Mine is 100mm (4") across the palm and I find the handle comfortable with three fingers.

My saw is rip filed and I think it is excellent. Well worth making up a new handle that suits your hand.

Regards from Perth

Derek

lowell holmes
09-17-2015, 9:57 AM
Hi Matthew

Do not be deterred by the "need" for special drill bits. I do not have any. All you need is one - Forstner - that will enable you to recess the saw nut. You will be re-using all the existing hardware. Use the saw plate to position the holes, and then you do not need to drill the plate. That would otherwise be the only drill bit of significance - I have one in carbide for that task - and it can be bypassed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek said it all. You can start the slotted hole in the handle with a brace and bit. Most of us have 3/4" or 1" bits. A coping saw is used to finish the slot.

After you make one, the herd will grow. I make my handles 7/8" thick. Maple is a favorite wood for me, but walnut is nice as well. Don't overlook sapele either. I have a handle made of sapele that I think is gorgeous.

Mike Holbrook
09-17-2015, 11:49 AM
Derek and I are thinking alike. I just checked my Gramercy Sash saw handle too and it is one of the smaller backsaw handles in my collection. Maybe the OP is thinking about the Gramercy Dovetail saw? The Dovetail saw is the one that has the handle that some people find to be large? The handle on my Bontz Saw Works saw is probably the most comfortable handle in my entire saw collection, if you can get one of those, even roughed out OMG!

Matthew N. Masail
09-17-2015, 1:11 PM
Thanks guys, I am indeed talking about the SASH saw the Derek posted. I measured my hand today it ranges from 3.5-3.75 inches wide. so a little smaller than most? but not extreme. the handle feels very big. I wonder if they made more than one size of handle? doesn't seem likely. the LN handles are also larger than I need, but they are close enough that they feel secure. I am not trying to blame anyone here! just need to work it out.

Ron, not a dumb question. I actually live in Israel, but I have family in the US which is how I'm able to get all this stuff (-: now that I know what I know about saws, I wish I would have ordered a couple saws from a fine maker like yourself, comfort so important with these things.

Mike Allen1010
09-17-2015, 5:04 PM
[QUOTE=Mike Brady;2468085]I disagree about the comment that saw handles are "not hard to make". I think it is very tricky to get a slot centered and straight in a handle; and getting the concentric screw holes aligned without an expensive stepped bit and a very good drill press is tricky, at best. I would go so far as to say that if you are only going to build a saw or two, don't make them. Just buy a couple of good saws from someone who already knows how and put your money into quality and experience instead of one-use specialized tools. [/QUOT

+1.
I really like shop made tools and have built many, including lots of backsaws. Of all the marking tools, planes, etc. I've built, saws are by far the hardest to do well.

Jim Koepke
09-17-2015, 6:53 PM
I disagree about the comment that saw handles are "not hard to make". I think it is very tricky to get a slot centered and straight in a handle; and getting the concentric screw holes aligned without an expensive stepped bit and a very good drill press is tricky, at best. I would go so far as to say that if you are only going to build a saw or two, don't make them. Just buy a couple of good saws from someone who already knows how and put your money into quality and experience instead of one-use specialized tools.



+1.
I really like shop made tools and have built many, including lots of backsaws. Of all the marking tools, planes, etc. I've built, saws are by far the hardest to do well.

Yes, it takes a bit of work to get things all lined up and then there is still a little play. After awhile it all becomes experience.

Make a quick handle out of some inexpensive scrap. Make note of all the mistakes or things you want different, then repeat. Once you get to a handle you like, start laying it out on the wood for the permanent handle.

Here is a saw build of mine:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?180712-Back-Saw-Build

There is some detail on how to cut a slot for the blade that worked for me. There were a few errors on this saw, but it works fine. Mostly the errors were just cosmetic.

jtk

lowell holmes
09-17-2015, 9:34 PM
Matthew, PM me. I can help with a pattern you need.

Paul Sidener
09-19-2015, 3:36 PM
I think I would make a new handle for the saw myself. Gramercy sells a kit for the saw with detailed instructions and a template on how to make the handle. It is not as difficult as it seams. You can adjust the size to fit. You don't need the kit, just the instructions.

https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/prodimg/gt/pdf/GT-SKIT_INST.pdf

Christopher Charles
09-20-2015, 1:03 AM
I built the Gramercy dovetail saw kit and found the instructions to be straightforward. By no means did it come out perfectly and would change several minor thinks if I were to do over, but I learned much and have a great, perfectly functional saw. The saw was my first real handsaw and would say that my skills were beginner-intermediate at the time. So I'll also suggest making a new handle using the kit instructions as well.

Best of luck!
C

Stewie Simpson
09-20-2015, 8:32 AM
Matthew. Although the site doesnt mention there is a choice available on handle size, it does sounds as though your Gramercy Sash was made to xl specs.

Stewie;