New Powermatic tenoning jig...Wow! Anyone know how much?

[Peter Quinn]

I just got an email with a video link to a new powermatic tenoning jig, looks like they pretty much blew away anything else available for the table saw. Anyone seen one in person that can comment on build quality or know the price? I wonder how many use tenon jig in the table saw for tenons?

http://www.powermatic.com/us/en/community/videos/tenoning-jig-instructional-video/?utm_source=JangoMail&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Introducing+the+Powermatic+Tenoning+J ig+%28316394170%29&utm_content=cook4food%40mac%2Ecom

[Michael Moscicki]

No idea on price yet, but it makes my mouth water. I'm just surprised it took so long to reinvent the tenoning jig and that Powermatic was the one to do it.

Make no mistake, the gold standard will be priced accordingly.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1t2_UTodQ4

[Bill Adamsen]

Watched the video - very nice setup. Surprising that it took this long for a company to come up with that clever indexing system. The board clamp leaves something to be desired.

With the Domino, does anyone besides me still use mortises? I guess I'm questioning the market?

[Anthony Whitesell]

I have a dado jig that works on the same index (don't need to measure) principal. I agree the F-style clamp used for the board holder looks less than impressive.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Looks like a really nicely designed jig. I do like the IDEA of indexing for the tenon width... but I suspect it would be simpler and faster for me to just do as I currently do with my old school tenon jig: sneak up on the cut. It really only takes me a minute or so to dial in the thickness of the tenon on my first test piece, and maybe another minute to mark the rough dimensions as a starting point for my guess-and-check method.

But it does look like a nice tool for sure.

[Peter Aeschliman]

The other issue here... it looks like the indexing system is primarily designed for those who use hollow chisel mortisers.

But even for those who do, let's say you want to center your mortise on the workpiece. The simplest way to do that is to do your first set of plunge cuts, then flip the workpiece around and clean up the other side. Even this simple act could make the mortise wider than the chisel, thus throwing off the indexing system. As soon as you aren't able to get the tenon the correct width on your first test cut, you're going to be guessing and checking anyway.

So why not just start by guessing and checking and skip the indexing steps?

[Rod Sheridan]

Watched the video - very nice setup. Surprising that it took this long for a company to come up with that clever indexing system. The board clamp leaves something to be desired.

With the Domino, does anyone besides me still use mortises? I guess I'm questioning the market?

Yes, I almost always use mortice and tenon construction.............Rod.

[Josh Molaver]

They have a reseller listing it - $329

[Mike Henderson]

I use M&T joinery, although less now that I have a Domino. For straight tenons, I make them on the table saw with a sled (I suppose you could use your miter gauge). So the only time I use a tenon jig is if the tenon is not straight, as occurs with the seat side rails tenon into the back. I don't have any problems using the tenon jig I presently have so I doubt if I'd upgrade to this one.

Mike

[Susumu Mori]

I'm in the Domino camp too. Tenon is fine. I just somehow don't enjoy making mortise. I don't know why. Maybe because my small Delta mortiser is flimsy.
So, I'm more interested in how you all make mortises.....

[Rod Sheridan]

I'm in the Domino camp too. Tenon is fine. I just somehow don't enjoy making mortise. I don't know why. Maybe because my small Delta mortiser is flimsy.
So, I'm more interested in how you all make mortises.....

Hi, I use A General International mortise, or if it's only a couple I just use a mortise chisel..........Regards, Rod.

[paul cottingham]

Watched the video - very nice setup. Surprising that it took this long for a company to come up with that clever indexing system. The board clamp leaves something to be desired.

With the Domino, does anyone besides me still use mortises? I guess I'm questioning the market?

Yep, almost always use M&T joinery, could never justify the cost of a domino, when i can hand cut everything.

[Steve Peterson]

They have a reseller listing it - $329

Thanks for being the only person to actually answer one of the original questions. I received the same email and couldn't find anyone listing a price. I think I will stick with my old style PM tenoning jig. The new one looks like it does a lot of cool stuff, but not enough to make me want to upgrade for that price.

Steve

[Michael Moscicki]

Here is the link to the product page with the price. No affiliation with Beaver Industrial Supply.
http://beavertools.com/1799000-powermatic-pm-tj-tenoning-jig.html

[Mike Delyster]

I have a Domino, but I still do a lot of mortice and tenon construction. Depending on the piece I'm building.

I haven't cut a tenon on the tablesaw for a long time though, if going with power operated I usually use a shaper now.

[Susumu Mori]

Rod, so you don't use the horizontal boring attachment for your A331?
Somehow, horizontal ones seem not very popular in US. I wonder why.
That certainly looks a better option than a series of holes by a drill press....

[Tom M King]

I like it, but since the times I use one are a long time apart, I'm not sure it would be any faster figuring out and setting up, than my standard method of running a few test pieces with this one: http://historic-house-restoration.com/images/windows3_007.JPG
I'll be sticking with the simple one and six ounce ball peen for fine adjustments. I like the clamp better on the old cast iron one anyway. It'll cut a few hundred pieces dead on without any more fiddling with it after first setup.

[Peter Quinn]

The stock clamp looks like the achilles heal in this whole thing. My low budget older wood craft brand tenoning jig has a very robust clamp that can hold some pretty substantial work, and with a slot mortiser its really only pretty substantial work for which I use the tenon jig. But wow, at almost $350, I'm out. It seems like a very complimentary product for a company that sells table saws and chisel mortisers, curious to see if it gains traction in the market at that price given the other options.

[Jeff Bartley]

I use and love using a tenon jig on the tablesaw. I have a simple shop-made jig that straddles my rip fence. Micro adjust is handled by the rip fence so sneaking up on fit is easy. However, this powermatic jig looks awesome, I sorta can't believe it's only $329. Am I understanding correctly that it really only does centered tenons? I sure hope someone here buys one soon and reports back! Thanks for sharing this Peter!

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod, so you don't use the horizontal boring attachment for your A331?
Somehow, horizontal ones seem not very popular in US. I wonder why.
That certainly looks a better option than a series of holes by a drill press....

Hi Susumi, I don't have the horizontal morticer attachment for my A3-31.

I use the hollow chisel mortiser instead as it makes rectangular mortices that accept rectangular tenons.

If I used the horizontal one I would either square up the mortice after, or use loose tenons with round edges................Regards, Rod.

[Dan T Jones]

The jig looks nice but the Delta 1172 still shines. Really I'm glad to see someone trying to get back to a precise repeatable jig in the tradition of the 1172. A jig like the 1172 was a game changer with me. You have a jig that is rock solid, you don't have to go between a dado blade and a combo blade, you can tenon large and long boards, etc.
Dan

[Peter Quinn]

The jig looks nice but the Delta 1172 still shines. Really I'm glad to see someone trying to get back to a precise repeatable jig in the tradition of the 1172. A jig like the 1172 was a game changer with me. You have a jig that is rock solid, you don't have to go between a dado blade and a combo blade, you can tenon large and long boards, etc.
Dan

I used one of those at work for years, and I remember it fondly. The one issue it had was the adjustment mechanism for tenon thickness was hardly what I call "micro adjustable". It took a fair bit of back and forth fiddling to nail a setting that had to be accurate within a few thousands. The shear weight of the thing made large work like brackets and entry door rails very repeatable and safe, the clamps and hold downs were all massive, the blade shroud handle kept projectiles from returning to the operator. They got a lot of things right. My el cheepo Chinese woodcraft version does not have the mass to handle larger work, but it does have a very precise micro adjust feature that I find much easier to dial in.

i used to do more tenon work at my last job, many times they were not centered and often the shoulders were offset such as for glass doors. I used to always reference the same face of the stock and use guage blocks to push the stock over the required distance. This was easily accomplished with the delta 1172's massive stock clamp, and it was partly a reaction on my part to its midiocre adjustment mechanism. Very coarse bolt and jamb nut mechanism IIR, it's what I see in pictures in a Google search.

my hope was that powermatic would capture all the best features of the old Rockwell units and incorporate some modern precision to the adjusments like incra stuff or jessum. Not sure it's quite there.

[Keith Weber]

I found the jig in the video to be quite clever up until the point where he had to fine tune it if the joint was too loose/tight. It seemed like it was more complicated at that point than it needed to be. It would have been better to have a fine tune knob that allowed a micro-adjustment sliding of the angled slide on the jig. It would have been very simple to make it like that, and would have allowed for fine-tuning in seconds without moving any of the stops. So close... yet so far. I agree that the hold down clamp looks Mickey Mouse (no offense to Mickey).

Edit: Upon viewing the video again, it appears that they do have a micro-adjustment mechanism on the angled slider. You could just loosen the tightening knob, micro-adjust it, and then lock it back down, and be in business. For some reason they've just did a bunch of extra steps to re-adjust the first stop. I guess they're doing that so that you could later adjust the second stop if you're using various thicknesses of wood.

[Mike Goetzke]

I used one of those at work for years, and I remember it fondly. The one issue it had was the adjustment mechanism for tenon thickness was hardly what I call "micro adjustable". It took a fair bit of back and forth fiddling to nail a setting that had to be accurate within a few thousands. The shear weight of the thing made large work like brackets and entry door rails very repeatable and safe, the clamps and hold downs were all massive, the blade shroud handle kept projectiles from returning to the operator. They got a lot of things right. My el cheepo Chinese woodcraft version does not have the mass to handle larger work, but it does have a very precise micro adjust feature that I find much easier to dial in.

i used to do more tenon work at my last job, many times they were not centered and often the shoulders were offset such as for glass doors. I used to always reference the same face of the stock and use guage blocks to push the stock over the required distance. This was easily accomplished with the delta 1172's massive stock clamp, and it was partly a reaction on my part to its midiocre adjustment mechanism. Very coarse bolt and jamb nut mechanism IIR, it's what I see in pictures in a Google search.

my hope was that powermatic would capture all the best features of the old Rockwell units and incorporate some modern precision to the adjusments like incra stuff or jessum. Not sure it's quite there.

I have an 1172 sitting just waiting for me to restore it (some day). I bought it to go with my restored 1950 Uni. Anyway, I saw a post at OWWM where a guy/machinist made some parts to incorporate a real micro-adjuster to this jig.

Mike

[jack forsberg]

only does center tenons. this one is better and you make it yourself

http://woodgears.ca/tenon/tenon_jig-p.jpg




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtCxPJrnitA

[Brian Millspaw]

i like the part " turn off the saw and wait for the blade to stop" it will take all day to make a set of tenons at that rate !

[Peter Quinn]

I have an 1172 sitting just waiting for me to restore it (some day). I bought it to go with my restored 1950 Uni. Anyway, I saw a post at OWWM where a guy/machinist made some parts to incorporate a real micro-adjuster to this jig.

Mike

Do that and you may just have the ultimate tenoning jig!

[Joe Calhoon]

I have good memories of the 1172. I used one of those in my first shop in the 70s. Seemed like it was easy to use and setup with double blades and a spacer. I have not so good memories of the Delta drill press and mortise attachment we used with it. That is what drove me to a slot mortiser at the time.
I guess the inexpensive imported bench top mortisers are a small improvement over the DP attachment for home shops.

[Dean Van Dolsen]

I' like the Powermatic Tenoning Jig that came with my saw. The gold one.

[Patrick Harper]

Anyone using the new jig yet? It looks nice, but I've yet to hear from anyone who's actually using it.

[Bill White]

Never have figured out how you use a jig for tenons on a table apron that can be as long as 6 feet.
Bill

[Steven Hosler]

Woodcraft has it listed for $329.99.

[Patrick Harper]

You can get it for $299 on Amazon. I'd just like to hear from someone who uses it.

[Ben Rivel]

That jig looks real nice! Especially if youre doing M&Ts with a mortiser! Id love to read some real user comments from anyone that owns one too!

[Rich Riddle]

We will see if any enter the "used" market. I have a mortising machine and an older Delta Tenoning Jig. Folks still pay a fair sum for those old ones from Delta.

[glenn bradley]

Yep, about 3-bills. I played with it during a work related visit to Las Vegas. Seems fairly well made but, not phenomenal. Well though out and has smooth adjustment. the work holding portion looks like a re-purposed Harbor Freight clutch-style F clamp. Seems oddly out of place on the streamlined base.

[Ben Rivel]

Jessem, Inrca or Woodpeckers needs to make one!

On a different note, I wish someone would bring back the Mortising Pal! Still kicking myself I never bought one before it was too late.

[glenn bradley]

Jessem, Inrca or Woodpeckers needs to make one!

On a different note, I wish someone would bring back the Mortising Pal! Still kicking myself I never bought one before it was too late.

I had the original and sold it when I bought the new version. Shoulda kept 'em both. Who ever thought they would fold!?! I hope the person who bought it is enjoying it. I love mine.

[Kevin Womer]

I used to use them almost all the time, sold my tenoning jig, biscuit joiner and mortising machine and bought a domino. Between it and a beadock that covers most everything I do. If need be I can make tenons on the TS or BS and mortises with chisels and the DP, then there is also the router table.

[mark mcfarlane]

In the initial Powermatic video at the top of this thread, the cheeks are cut significantly deeper than where the shoulder meets the cheek. Is this a best practice I have missed?

See @ 3:47 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1t2_UTodQ4

[Patrick Harper]

Mark, I think that was just a poor choice in test piece. I have yet to cut tenons using a jig on the table saw (usually use dado stack), but I think the best practice would be to cut the shoulders slightly short (less than the kerf of the blade) , and then dial in the height of the cheeks perfectly.

[mark mcfarlane]

Thanks Patrick.

[Eric Commarato]

I actually bought the Powermatic TJ through a winning Ebay bid for $180, in like new condition. I guess the previous owner didn't use it much. I would not have bought one for the $329.00 list price. I also have a vintage Delta 1172 that weighs about 5x more that the Powermatic. So I plan to dedicate my PM 66 for mortise/tenon work, hoping this jig will be a performer. It really looked like a neat setup on the Woodwhisperer's channel....or it might go back on sale at Ebay!

[Matt Day]

Give us some feedback once you use it a bit. Thanks

[Van Huskey]

I got a chance to use one of these at my BIL's shop 2 months about ago. I remember seeing the video initially and thinking it looked cool but the Powermatic video made it seem over complicated to setup, maybe because they lumped the initial setup of the jig alow with the use video, in retropsect that may have been a mistake. It would be like watching a video about table saw fences and how to easily cut a repeatble 6" wide rip cut and being deluged with the tedious process of setting up the fence the first time, at least in my mind I would see it as overly complicated. In real life once the jig is dialed in (the one I used had already been setup) it is stupid easy to get "perfect" tenons. Once he showed me how to set it up it is clear you can set it up for the tenon in well under a minute and they are spot on. This is a better mousetrap. The clamps could indeed be nicer and almost feels like an afterthought but it worked just fine.

I was initially planning to order one as soon as I got home but during the trip decided to put it off. The Domino has taken over most of the small tenon work I do and I tend to only do traditional M&T work in larger pieces, ones that are too long to be cut standing upright on a TS. I would own one if I didn't have a Domino but as of now I will wait until I actually have a project that begs for it.

Of interest my BIL pointed out he transfers the width of handcut mortises using a set of calipers. While this would work I don't know how much overall time one would save since unless you cut a very even mortice the tenon will have to be adjusted to fit just like normal.

I think this is worth the premium if you do enough M&T work, it is quick, simple, accurate and precise almost to the point of being boring.

[Eric Commarato]

Give us some feedback once you use it a bit. Thanks

Yes most certainly!

[Eric Commarato]

I got a chance to use one of these at my BIL's shop 2 months about ago. I remember seeing the video initially and thinking it looked cool but the Powermatic video made it seem over complicated to setup, maybe because they lumped the initial setup of the jig alow with the use video, in retropsect that may have been a mistake. It would be like watching a video about table saw fences and how to easily cut a repeatble 6" wide rip cut and being deluged with the tedious process of setting up the fence the first time, at least in my mind I would see it as overly complicated. In real life once the jig is dialed in (the one I used had already been setup) it is stupid easy to get "perfect" tenons. Once he showed me how to set it up it is clear you can set it up for the tenon in well under a minute and they are spot on. This is a better mousetrap. The clamps could indeed be nicer and almost feels like an afterthought but it worked just fine.

I was initially planning to order one as soon as I got home but during the trip decided to put it off. The Domino has taken over most of the small tenon work I do and I tend to only do traditional M&T work in larger pieces, ones that are too long to be cut standing upright on a TS. I would own one if I didn't have a Domino but as of now I will wait until I actually have a project that begs for it.

Of interest my BIL pointed out he transfers the width of handcut mortises using a set of calipers. While this would work I don't know how much overall time one would save since unless you cut a very even mortice the tenon will have to be adjusted to fit just like normal.

I think this is worth the premium if you do enough M&T work, it is quick, simple, accurate and precise almost to the point of being boring.

Yes I agree 100% with you. According to Marc Spagnuolo, AKA the Wood Whisperer on his YouTube channel review of this jig, he states precisely what you have about the setup of the jig. It would seem to add some boredom to the process of mortise and tenoning, and takes the skill building use of hand tools out of even one more process.

[Jimmy Murray]

Amazon $299.00, just checked on it.