Akeda, D4, Incra, Woodrat?

[Allen Bookout]

I did a lot of searching on the topic of dovetail jigs and finally came down to the Akeda or D4. Then while getting ready to order a router plate for a router table from Woodpeckers I was looking at the Incra jig, ordered their video and became interested in it as it was no more than the other two and looked like a good choice, besides I would end up with a nice router fence. Then I decided to look into the Woodrat, looked at their video and it is also looked like the thing to do except for the price ($700).

I was mainly interested in dovetails but now I am wondering if a person should go another route than just a pure dovetail jig and get something with more capabilities or are they (Incra and Woodrat) not accurate enough or convenient enough that the dovetails would suffer or become a pain in the tail?

For evaluation purposes my equipment now includes a tablesaw, bandsaw, drill press, jointer, table router and planner along with the normal sanders, drills, powered hand saws, hand held routers, etc.

Anyone with some great advice?

Thanks! Allen

[Tim Sproul]

What do you want from this jig?

You want to build drawers quickly and easily? Akeda.

you want ultimate joinery flexibility? Woodrat.

you want both drawers and casework but only one jig? D4.

I have the D4 and Akeda. The Akeda is very good for decent looking machined drawers. It doesn't have the 'infinite' variable spacing of the D4 but the 1/8 inch increments are typically not limiting. Building a 4 1/8 inch tall drawer rather than 4 3/16 tall drawer is almost never an issue, aesthetically or structurally. The width on the D4 is good for when you're feeling too lazy to hand cut the casework dovetails..... :eek:!

[Richard Wolf]

Tim is right, what do you want to do with it? I spend some time looking at the Wood Rat. My impression is this; it's a very good jig for making alot of different joints. Its learning curve is steep. If you don't use it on a regular basis, you will keep falling back on the learning curve. The last point is very important, like most machine that we have, the more complicated they are, the more you need to stay current with them to feel comfortable.

Richard

[Ryan Ricks]

Allen -


One consideration with the Incra - I have one and love it. It works great if you are doing small boxes. However, with the Incra you mount the router in a table and move the lumber through the bit. Because of this it is difficult to do large panels. While the Incra is great for smaller projects, I still want to get a separate jig for use on larger panels.

Ryan

[CPeter James]

I have the Akeda and like the ease of set up and the repeatability. It cuts very good dovetails and the learning curve is very short. The manual is well written and the quality of the machine is very high. You do NOT need ALL the accessories. My suggestion would be to get the things you need and go from there. With the jig, a 7º and a 14º dovetail bits and the 5/16" straight bit you can do both half blind and through dovetails. The Akeda bits are $17.99 each and seem to be good quality. Whiteside also makes bits for the Akeda jig.

The D4 will do 24" case work and you can vary the width of both the pins and tails, but you can't on the D1600.

Unless you are going to do wide case work, I think the Akeda is a good choice.

CPeter

[Ed Lang]

I too have the Incra. Ryan is spot on with the larger work. You have to be very careful when cutting long stock. A jig that clamps to the stock would be better in this case. For cutting smaller (< 18") I think the Incra is fantastic.

Be sure to let us all know what you get and how you like it.

[Jim Becker]

I'm a happy D4 user. The Akeda is nice. The WoodRat is very capable. So is Incra. But they are all very different in many respects, although the D4 and Akeda have more similarity than the others. It does come down to "What do you want to do?" For overall dovetail work, the D4 and Akeda are probably the best choices due to their more "traditional" format...in form factor, of course...hand saws and chisels are really "more traditional"! (The D4 does more things outside of dovetails than the Akeda, IMHO, at a slight premium in price) The other two can do dovetails and some other jointery tasks and the Incra doubles as a router table fence.

Now...are you totally confused?? :D ;)

[John Renzetti]

hi, I've seen the WR in action and it was impressive. Seems versitile, but the learning curve does look steep. I have the D4 and really like it a lot. The learning curve was relatively shallow. I watched the video a few times. Then practiced to get the hang of it. Got a lot of exercise also by watching a segment of the video, running back to the shop to try the technique, back to the video, etc.
take care,
John

[Allen Bookout]

You have put me back on track which is a good thing. I just got caught up in the excitement of impressive looking tools.

I was wondering about using the Incra for longer stock and you have confirmed the problem with that.

I would love to try the Woodrat but at $700 it is just too expensive to mainly use for dovetails and fiddle around with other stuff that can effectively be done other ways. At $400 or $500 may be.

It looks like that it will either be the D4 or Akeda whichever one I can get the best deal on in the near future. Well that is a joke --- no deals on these two as they seem to almost have a monoply on variable spaced machine cut dovetails.

Thanks as I needed to be shaken by the shoulders like a small kid that has lost his way. Allen

[Dev Emch]

Doing "class act" dovetails on drawers and case items is not easy for a generic jig. Its extremely hard to do this with a full bore bridgeport milling machine! So the best way to cut dovetails other than by hand is to use a dedicated jig.

Having said that, most generic jigs such as the wood rat and the multirouter have significant limitations. Even the omnijig is domain limited here. Most folks use tails to make drawers. That really limits you to size. But what if you use tails to do case items? Most furniture case work is a hair under 24 inches or so. You never find dressors and other furniture items with case depths exceeding 24 inches.

Then you have the issue of matching up your half pins. And how about doing half lap or blind dovetails. And lastly, how about doing half laps with variable spacing on say 18 to 23 inch exterior case items?

You truely cannot say to yourself that I will never do this or do that. You dont know that. So why struggle with trying to identify the usefulness or ineffectivness of all these various combinations?

When it comes to making tails with quasi modern techniques (i.e. jigs and routers, etc), the best jig out there is the Leigh D4. As I have said before, I wish it was made better. Its got a decent construction but IT ANIT NO OLIVER! Nonetheless, that is the jig I use when I am not doing it by hand.

As for the other jigs out there... Cutting joinery is a sub set of milling machine operations on wood. Having said that, a generic joinery jig will be most useful if itself is based off of a milling machine and *NOT* some gimmick with a patent or patent pending!

The only other router jig that I have found super useful that meets this caveat is the JDS Multirouter. Jigs such as the wood rat and the Leigh FMT are more trouble than they are worth. Personally I do not use a multirouter for trick joinery. I have a vintage oliver tenoner. And when I get my top coping motor reattached, it will do much of what the multirouter can do.

Just my penny worth of opinion...:)

[Allen Bookout]

WELL DEV -- I have read your reply many times. I am not completely sure of what I understand and what that I do not understand but I will say that I think that I get your point. Did you major in English in college or what? I think that I should go back and take some advanced classes.

I do have one more question for anyone. At times I see the D4 for sale on ebay, used and new, and I was wondering if it is risky buying one sight unseen other than from a dealer. I do not know how easily it could be damaged. So far they have been going for close to the full retail price so I have not really been tempted.

Thanks for your time! Allen

[Tim Sproul]

I do have one more question for anyone. At times I see the D4 for sale on ebay, used and new, and I was wondering if it is risky buying one sight unseen other than from a dealer. I do not know how easily it could be damaged. So far they have been going for close to the full retail price so I have not really been tempted.


A dovetail jig is a precision - well, as precise as we get with working wood - jig that pretty much requires all the pieces and parts be there and be 'precise' to factory measures. I wouldn't buy such over ebay. I generally avoid anything with moving parts over eBay. A bent stop or finger support or stripped screws here or there would be more trouble than the few dollars you might save. If you run across one locally that you can see in action...well, that might be worth it. If Akeda were to introduce a 24 or 30 inch version, my D4 could well go on chopping block.

I read Dev's post as one who isn't very fond of most commercial joinery jigs. He certainly doesn't like the FMT, though I've found it to be quick and accurate for mortise and tenon joinery. But then again, my comparison is to a hand saw and mortise chisel. The FMT isn't as satisfying...but it sure gets the job done well with a lot more speed than my chisel and saw can muster!

[Chris Padilla]

How about just hand-cutting 'em? :) Once you learn that (could be a steep learning curve), you are unlimited in the shape and size.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Being one who appears here sporadically, I had missed this when it was first posted.

My only real experience with some of the options mentioned are with the Omnijig (which I owned), Akeda (which I borrowed from a firend) and the WoodRat. The Omnijig I sold within two days of using the WR.

The learning curve, like that for any tool, varies with the user. I found it easier to do dovetails and box joints than the Omni from the first attempt. It's an YMMV sort of thing I'm sure.

I use the WR for more other types of joinery than just DTs/BJs. When I do floating tenons, the mortises are all cut on it. Smaller work I cut mortices and tenons on it (stile/rail pieces shorter than 48"). Most all grooving is done on it. Heck, when I'm in a rush building several miter-cornered boxes I'll use it with a 45 deg bit and true the edges of the miter cuts. You get the picture.

The DT cutters are great, and look more like hand cut than any other cutters around. You do not use templates. Cutting to pencil/scribe lines work just fine. Aside from a comment about milling machines, it is very similar. XYZ movements. Smooth in its movements. Work is held as firmly as you want it to be.

Many of the best work holding devices that are beneficial beyond what is provided are to be found on one of a few websites. People freely share what they've made in this respect.

Ok. Aside from my obvious and favorable bias towards the WR, if I were mainly looking for doing dovetails, it would be the Akeda. Large case joints are easy enough to do using other methods, so I personally wouldn't care about its size limitation. Its ease of set up and use for doing drawer joints is what I would buy it for--if I didn't want all the other capabilities of the WR, that is.

Mike