New DVD/Download "Build a Traditional Windsor Rocker" with Elia Bizzarri

[Mike Holbrook]

I have been waiting for this DVD, bought the download as soon as I got the notice it was available. Unfortunately as many of us have experienced in recent years the web site at Popular Woodworking Magazine just is not user friendly and often does not work. I paid for the download but I got no confirming email. The two parts of the video appear on my list of bought videos but when I follow the directions on downloading it to a Mac nothing happens. It seems PWM still has major issues with their customer interface at their web site. I would have been more cautious had I realize I was dealing with PWM but, the logo has changed making the Popular very small and emphasizing the Woodworking. Sort of seems appropriate and at the same time verrry sneaky! Just a caution for other potential buyers. I sent PWM a note expressing my continuing problems with their customer interface. I plan to send Elia a note or call him today too.

[lowell holmes]

That's sad. I have downloaded from their web site on several occasions and been satisfied.

[Jim Koepke]

Mike,

Are you using Safari as the browser?
I know sometimes with these problems they can be fixed by switching to FireFox or Chrome.

jtk

[Megan Fitzpatrick]

Mike, I've asked the eMedia and customer service teams to look into this ASAP and get it fixed. I'm sorry.

[Mike Holbrook]

Thanks Megan.
Jim, Safari is one of the most used, proven browsers out there. I don't think I will change browsers because of a single repeated problem at one web site. I have almost no problems anywhere else, tons less than I had with "Internet Exploder" or Firefox when I ran them. Still I understand your point, software gets more & more complex and there are issues with any and all software at times. In another life I worked with custom and vertical market software packages. Maybe I have a more critical eye having been on the other side of the fence. It just seems to me that companies should check to make sure their web site works with the latest version of the popular software browsers before they take the money for a download, not make the client jump through hoops to get what they paid for.

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks Megan.
Jim, Safari is one of the most used, proven browsers out there. I don't think I will change browsers because of a single repeated problem at one web site. I have almost no problems anywhere else, tons less than I had with "Internet Exploder" or Firefox when I ran them. Still I understand your point, software gets more & more complex and there are issues with any and all software at times. In another life I worked with custom and vertical market software packages. Maybe I have a more critical eye having been on the other side of the fence. It just seems to me that companies should check to make sure their web site works with the latest version of the popular software browsers before they take the money for a download, not make the client jump through hoops to get what they paid for.

Mike, I am with you on this.

The problem is some programmers are lazy or just down right ignorant.

When I first started selling on ebay and had a problem customer support informed me their site wasn't compatible with Safari and that I should use a PC to list items. Instead I tried Firefox and it worked. Since then if a page has problems I will copy the URL and paste it into Firefox. It seems to do the trick.

It is usually less than 1% of pages that display a problem.

Another reason to use a second browser is one can be run without cookies if you want to go untracked.

jtk

[Mike Holbrook]

I hear you Jim. I know the reason to do what you suggest, my brain just does not handle multiple environments well. It has nothing to do with me getting old or set in my ways though!

Now I have to back up and complement PW for getting this handled quickly. I just got a nice note from PW customer service with links that downloaded perfectly and quickly. They plan to have the site fixed later today, as I understand it. I think another poster on SMC helped move this along at PW. Thanks for the help!

I just watched a little of Elia's video it looks great and I look forward to studying it later tonight. I talked to Elia a couple weeks ago and he told me they were showing up in a few days to shoot the video. I had called with specific questions about his/Curtis Buchanan's Windsor Rocker plans. Apparently they shot the video and had it available for download in a week or two, so I guess I should cut PW a little slack in recognition of how quickly this apparently got done.

[Paul Saffold]

Since I don't subscribe to the monthly or yearly plan to view their videos I purchased it thinking it would be mine as in a download. But I was mistaken as I need to go to their site to view it. My mistake for not looking too closely. But I like the video. I think it offers another good perspective on chair making and is a good fit with Buchanan's videos and Galbert's book.

My only complaint is the lack of chapters. It is about 8 hours of video and you have the choice of "Part 1" or "Part 2". That's it. No description about what is in either part. This is not like a novel that one reads once and discards. I see it as a reference or training video. Unless you take notes and create your own table of contents with a minute count you'll never be able to go back and find a certain section without viewing the whole thing. Forget being able to click on a chapter and go directly there.
Yesterday I sent an email to Elia and to Farnsworth who I think produced it. Elia replied immediately. Haven't heard from Farnsworth. I am very disappointed something like this got past the producer, editor and management at Popular Woodworking.

But to repeat. The video has a lot of good information and Elia is very entertaining in his presentation.

Paul

[Robert Norman]

Somewhat OT, hopefully Megan and PWW will get ya fixed up.

I've downloaded from them and others and usually find I prefer the actual disc hard copy on the big TV method. Even as I get older it's damn hard to resist to that instant reward of the Internet even though I'll regret not spending $6 more and waiting 10 days.

[Mike Holbrook]

Paul, apparently I fell into the same "trap". I "bought" the download thinking I would get an actual download. When I tried to run what I thought was a "download" yesterday it would not run. Now I am assuming what I have is some sort of link or something, it had a weird file name that my computer rejected and changed to webarchive I believe. I have looked all over the advertisement I was sent and I do not see anything that explains that they are selling a service on their site not a download, how did you figure that out? I do not understand this, as anywhere else I am aware of on the internet, if it says they are selling a "download" you get an actual physical file with the text or video in it, which resides on ones computer and can be run there.

Robert, I am afraid DVD's will not last that much longer, going the same path as 8 tracks, cassette tapes, CDs, vinyl (although my daughter says vinyl is coming back ;-))...everything seems to be moving towards fixed memory instead of discs with moving heads.... More and more devices use smaller cards that take up less space and probably match up better to the solid erasable storage they use. Certainly solid storage is faster than having to search with a moving head, my notebook with all solid storage is tons faster on many operations. Storage space has gotten so cheap I am doubting removable storage will be required at all on many devices before long, iPhones, iPads and many notebooks get along fine without them.

The companies that rent software or information on the internet, typically are offering a product that is constantly being improved, debugged...not a video or text file that will remain the same for it's entire life cycle. If PW is trying to "rent" videos I don't get why they would think people would want to pay for it? Unless they plan to compete with the new guys on the block who are apparently offering new content all the time? If that is their intent they certainly should make that much clearer in their advertisements and on their web site IMHO.

[Paul Saffold]

I went to the PWW Videos website (https://videos.popularwoodworking.com) and before logging in I read thru their “Have a Question” section. They say that Adobe Flash is required and since I had removed it from my computer due to it’s frequent security concerns, I installed it again. I was thinking perhaps the chapter list and function wasn’t appearing because of the lack of Flash Player. Well now their video won’t play at all so I uninstalled the Adobe Flash player again.The video plays again. I have Apple’s Safari so maybe Adobe Flash Player isn’t needed. Not sure. I’m no computer geek. Still no chapter list which is my complaint.

If I had known PWW was going to offer the video in DVD format I would have purchased it rather than going the route I did. They first offered it in what was “Shop class on demand” and is now just PWW Videos, then a couple of days later offered it for download and for sale. I don’t have any particular problem with that kind of format but it isn’t my first choice. I’d rather not have to depend on my internet connection or their server or other variables that are eliminated by possessing the DVD itself. I have not had any problem logging in to their site.

[Mike Holbrook]

Maybe they are offering it in download, DVD or the on line format then? They changed the name of "Shop class on demand", that explains a few things I was trying to figure out too. I got an email advertisement in my mail offering a download or DVD, so my latest guess is that is what I was suppose to get. I had asked Elia to let me know when the video came out so I suspect he gave them my info., although I get frequent advertisements from them, due I imagine to past purchases. The note I got from customer service provided a link to a "download" which seemed to work at the time, lately what I thought was a download does nothing though. The note I got did say they were trying to fix the download on their web site and expected to have it working later that day. Maybe the new fix broke the old link, I'm grasping at straws now though. I will try to download from their web site again later today.

I just bought a 2TB Thunderbolt/ USB3 backup drive and we BU to an old Time Machine drive too. So it is easier for me to just keep everything in my computer's storage area. I have plenty of room and it is the easiest to get to, cheapest, easiest to move around between devices. My wife freaks out at the thought of loosing her pictures or song collection which are on her computer, so I try to stick to a file format I can BU easily and quicky for everything I can. I am sort of an old school computer guy who likes to have a couple generations of BU, just in case.

[Megan Fitzpatrick]

We offer a download (that is yours to keep in digital format) and a hard copy DVD of all our videos at shopwoodworking.com. The streaming site (videos.popularwoodworking.com) is a subscription site where we have all our videos available for viewing (you can also pay for access to one video and watch it there, but cannot download it – that is, you'll need an internet connection to view it). With the download from shop woodworking.com, you can keep it on your computer and watch whenever). Consequently, the price is a little less for the streaming version. Apologies for the confusion – I've asked the eMedia team to try to make all this more clear in future ads, tweets, emails etc.

[paul cottingham]

As i have mentioned before, Megan, dealing with your onsite help team is an complete and utter exercise in frustration. I gave up the last time, as they just stopped replying to my emails. Probably for the best, as they were getting ruder and ruder.

[Mike Holbrook]

Thanks for the clarification Megan. It is a little confusing as I have around 12 different advertisements in the last week or two from Shop Woodworking and Popular Woodworking sometimes on the same day. The information inside may or may not identify an association with Popular Woodworking. The new logo for Popular Woodworking Magazine is odd too as the Popular text is almost too small to see and the Woodworking is much bigger and bolder.

[Megan Fitzpatrick]

You can always contact me directly (though yes, I know you shouldn't have to). If you do, I promise any problems will be addressed.

[Mike Holbrook]

Yes, almost a month still no working efile that will play Elia's video on my computer. The download I pulled off the PW video site this AM still want work. I sent yet another email to PW customer service and a PM to Megan here on SMC. I am trying to resist the urge to get into how many marketing emails I have from PW during that same period, several trying to sell me what they never delivered......

[Mike Holbrook]

I wish I had better news for fellow posters interested in videos made available through Popular Woodworking but I don't. I sent the lady who responded to my initial email about my purchase a note on Friday of last week in the AM. It is now Tuesday night and I have had no response from customer service at all. I might add that I have had multiple communications each day from PW trying to sell me more videos, including the one I paid for but never got.

I did get a communication from Megan who apparently has done everything she can to try to get me help and is as frustrated as I am.

I do not understand why, a month after offering a download, they still can not seem to provide it. I have done the download many times over the last month, spending hours of time on this. The temporary link I was sent by customer service a couple days after my "purchase" downloaded something that ran once that day, but did not work the next day. They indicated that the temporary file was a "temporary" solution so I was not real surprised. Since that time I have followed the directions for downloading from the link I got with the purchase many times. I get a file that downloads but does not run. I sent the customer service rep. a copy of the file that downloades but will not play on my computer on Friday too.

I ordered a download of Peter Galbert's new Windsor Chair book from Chris Schwarz at Lost Art Press the day it was released and had it within minuets, the actual book was still at the printers and did not mail for another week to 10 days. This isn't "rocket science", people including small kids, load videos on the internet all day long every day. I watch multiple videos downloaded by private individuals, from all sorts of devices, on Facebook and other places on the internet every day. They all seem to play on my iPhone, iPad or iMac just fine which begs the question why can't Popular Woodworking make it work. What's worse in my book is the lack of recognition of the problem or any effort to fix it.

[Kent Adams]

Youtube has a service for content creators that want to sell content. I'd suggest PW look into using that service to sell videos rather than some repackaged in house compiler. There are several issues with various video creation software out in the market. I've used some to utter frustration to try to produce content for a website I had. Youtube and Vimeo have the best talent in the market and video sellers should use them. Adobe Flash is going the way of the dodo bird and isn't supported "out of the box" by any browser today. It has to be side loaded and its so full of security bugs, its dangerous to run on your computer. Flash must die!

[J. Greg Jones]

I've bought the downloadable version of the video in question and had no problem downloading the 2 mp4 files to my Mac, using Safari. Assuming that you did purchase the video download ($21.59), and not the streaming subscription version ($14.99) from their videos.popularwoodworking on-demand site, you should be able to go to the shopwoodworking.com site, log in to your account, and view your purchases from the Account Dashboard on the left of the screen.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/f.cl.ly/items/0Z2N0S2z380h2c3x2c1D/Screen%20Shot%202015-10-07%20at%209.09.18%20AM.png

Click on My Downloadable Products, and a list of all your downloadable purchases should appear. Right-click on the link in the title description, and select Download Linked File. There are two files for the Bizarre video, so you need to do this for both Part 1 and Part 2.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/f.cl.ly/items/3Q0V2e2c1V1f3x1r2Y3E/Screen%20Shot%202015-10-07%20at%209.11.44%20AM.png

Do you see this when you log in to your account?

[Mike Holbrook]

J. Greg,
I'm not sure what you bought. The description on the receipt I eventually got says:
"Build a Traditional Windsor Rocker with Elia Bizzarri Video Download Files
Build a Traditional Windsor Rocker with Elia Bizzarri Part 1 (xxxproduct downloadxxx)
Build a Traditional Windsor Rocker with Elia Bizzarri Part 2 (xxxxproduct downloadxxx)
T76501$29.99Subtotal $29.99Grand Total$29.99"

Yes I have the Shop Woodworking site on my computer. It lists 9 downloadable files. I just spent a good deal more time downloading a video called "Building a Furniture Maker's Tool Cabinet" with Chuck Bender that was also on my list. It downloaded slowly but created a video file I can play. I tried the Elia video again and got nothing usable. As far as I can tell the two files are different.

The file I get for Chuck Bender's video is listed in the Apple finder/desktop as:
file:///Users/MacMitch/Desktop/MC43MzE4MjUwMCAxN.....XXXXXX>>>,.mp4, size 1.29 GB, kind- MPEG-4 movie.

The file I get doing the same download routine for the Elia video file produces the following:
file:///Users/MacMitch/Desktop/MC45MTcxOTkwMCAxND......xxxxxxx.....,.html, file size Zero Bytes, Kind HTML text

I XXXxxed out a large portion of the text and numbers, leaving only a small portion that J. Gregg might be able to use to identify the same files in his finder.

My best guess is the link they put in my download Shop Woodworking file is incorrect.... an HTML file probably want play as a video. I have had this problem before and had to jump through lots of hoops to get actual download links. According to the receipt I believe the description says I bought the download, apparently paying around $10 more for it than J. Grigg did.

[Mike Holbrook]

At 11:07 today I got a message from the Popular Woodworking customer service rep I started talking to back in early September.

Basically the message seems to say about the same thing the one I got back in September did. It says they emailed me a working link in September, which I explained some where above only worked for one day. They apologize that the links were not working properly. They say they have fixed the links "They were fixed today and will be pushed out to our store this evening." In the same message the customer service rep. says they have uploaded the proper files to my account, saying they should have done that back in September. I imagine this means they discovered the links in my Shop Woodworking download file were the wrong ones and replaced them with the correct ones, which may actually fix the issue.

It sounds to me like there is/was an issue with the links sent in early receipts for this video, which did not work. I am hesitant to spend the time trying to see if the "special" links they sent me to allow me to download while they fix my actual download page work. I will probably wait a day or two and then see if I can download off my Shop Woodworking" files, like J. Gregg apparently can.

I am almost exactly where I was back in early September hoping that some new link will actually allow me to download what I bought. At least Popular Woodworking knows they have/had an issue and are trying to fix it. My technical expertise in computers has waned over the years but it seems to me that PW has a very convoluted system for delivering videos that relies on people to manually do things correctly that would be better left to code and the machines, which I believe is what Kent is suggesting above.

[J. Greg Jones]

I can appreciate your frustration! We bought the same video, but it was discounted when I bought it. What happens if you just click on the link rather that right-clicking-does the video load in a new Safari tab or window? If so, you should be able to right-click on the video in that tab (or window, depending on your Safari preferences) and download the video from there. Hope this helps.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/f.cl.ly/items/233V031G352T1Z3c1i1J/Untitled.png

[paul cottingham]

The biggr issue for me is that they are doing nothing to fix it. And whenever (with a few notable, and lovely exceptions) i have tried to get assitance, it has taken sometimes a week to get a reply, if i get one at all. And the replies have been uniformly unhelpful, and borered on rude. And several have been rude enough to leave me seething. To her credit, Megan has solved several, and has been very helpful and kind, but that is ridiculous, and i feel silly contacting her over issues customer support should manage.

PW has themselves a massive customer service issue. Add that to some of their tech issues, and i fear for their future. Mikes story is one i suspect could be told by many, many customers, they just left, rather than fighting with CS over it.

[Derek Cohen]

I experienced the same problem, probably before any other here. I contacted Megan, and she was really prompt in addressing the situation. I was able to download the Windsor Rocker videos without an issue.

The problem now for PW is that they need to do something to rebuild trust in the system. They have a download facility which is very desirable. In this technological age, I would rather download the videos than order the DVDs (I copy them to a NAS and can watch them via my wireless modem on my iPad). The problem is that I - and no doubt others - am insecure about purchasing more downloads. This is not the first time it has happened to me. I would like to download the Toshia Odate video, but .... Megan, will the link work?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Holbrook]

J. Greg, I think I am doing the same thing you are. Apparently the original links that came with receipts for buying and the links on my personal downloads page are bogus.

I am not running this thread to pile on Popular Woodworking. Like Derek mentions, this is not my first rodeo with Popular Woodworking regarding these kinds of issues with videos. I decided after running into this issue many times that there are issues at PW that have not been resolved that, as Paul mentions, must have run off quite a few customers and I am guessing employees as well. Like Derek, I still have high hopes for the goals I think PW is striving for. My purpose in this thread is to help PW see some realities that I feel they have been missing in terms of delivering their product in the real world.

Apple is the largest company in the world now, they drive much of the hardware and software that people use to watch videos. Derek certainly isn't alone in his desire to watch videos on his iPad. My kids, now young adults, do not usually watch TV, they spend much more time watching videos, programs...on their iPad, iPhone or notebook over WiFi. Most of the "old folks" I know who still watch TV, typically watch streamed videos of entire seasons of shows. Many young people even skype with friends vs phoning. It is time for Popular Woodworking to figure out where the video market is going not where it has been, if they want to compete. It is kinda crazy that Popular Woodworking has a different set of instructions that have to be followed exactly for a user to download on a "PC" vs a Mac. I thought that ship had sailed, very few download sites even ask anymore. The software identifies the contacting devise handles delivering the appropriate file format, compresses it to speed it up, and provides an identifiable label that the person downloading can recognize as what they were looking for instead of some encrypted file name. The "end user" should not have to worry about these issues. We certainly should not have to figure out the particulars of why PW's downloads are not always working, but here we are.

[Steve Voigt]

Man, this whole thing is such a sad, sad story. It's almost enough to make you throw up your hands, turn off the computer, walk out to the shop, and do some woodworking.

Almost.

[Mike Holbrook]

A valid point Steve. I have a friend who has lost parts of the fingers on two hands trying to multi task while woodworking so I try not to multitask but I have taught myself to type/read on SMC while I answer questions/between "work" calls though ;-)

I sometimes wonder if typing could be causing allergic reactions on the skin on my hands vs the woodworking materials & liquids. After 4 Prednisone tapers and loosing large amounts of the skin on my hands about 5 times I am still a little cautious about stressing my hands. I was just getting comfortable back in the shop again when my hands started back with issues. I was really hoping the elimination of gluten from my diet would fix the issues for good, it still might if I can keep from using my hands too hard for long enough to grow back some tougher skin. Sometimes we do what we can to stay involved in whatever way we can.

[Mike Holbrook]

Just to expand a little on my motives in pursuing this topic with a certain amount of shall we say diligence. I have aspirations of offering educational videos and literature on the internet for my work,. I am and have been looking into the subject for quite a while. I am attempting to cultivate a relationship with customer service at the parent company who apparently owns Popular Woodworking. Because of the issues I have continued to have over the last year or two with my hands I am following some similar threads in my hobby of woodworking and my business. The subject of good communication and education is one that has always fascinated me and been an important part of my work & hobbies. I think streaming video on the internet is the wave of the future. Hopefully in this process we can find and improve the educational resources for SMC posters.

[Mike Holbrook]

Just making a final post on this issue with getting downloads from our friends at Popular Woodworking.

I worked with the PWW customer staff for some months trying to help figure out why I would sometimes have problems getting downloads. The customer service staff cleaned up my entire download file as there were multiples and bad download files in my personal download file. Soon after cleaning the files up I again had multiples and still had problems downloading. I did eventually get all my files downloaded but it was, shall we say an adventure.

Customer Service, as of my last correspondence, had forwarded information I provided regarding doing downloads to their programming staff. My internet connection is sometimes very slow. It seems to me that the PWW software has issues with slow downloads. If the download goes fast then things go well, if things are slow then downloads seem to: hang up, put bogus files in client download areas, return a html file instead of the correct file....I can not be sure if the issue is due to traffic at my location or traffic at whatever servers are doing the downloads.

My advise for fellow SMC people trying to get downloads from your download file area is: 1) if you see the download is going slowly, abort it 2) sign totally out of the PWW system 3) try again later when your connection and the traffic at FWW is slower 4) Be aware that when you do this it may cause a bogus file to appear in your download file. You may or may not be able to tell bogus from good download files. If you get a bad download and there is another copy of the file try downloading it.

I am not sure my experience will prove the same for all other users, but I thought my experience working with those files might help someone, at least until FWW can get the issue resolved within the code. I think the reason this issue persists is it would only show up in instances where downloads go very slowly, which may not be easy to test for.

[Joe Beaulieu]

Hey Mike and all,

The suggestion to try another browser shouldn't be seen as a condemnation of Safari. I work in this industry and my company lives and dies by browser compatibility. Every browser manufacturer has to release updates so that their software will work with the variety of apps and plugins on users machines. It is a rapidly moving target. We have an entire QA team at my place whose job it is to simply test that our software works with all browsers and with every iteration. Unless a web site is exceptionally vigilant (and I an not saying PWW is not) the changing needs of browsers can easily trip you up. I can tell you that most of the techs at my office have moved away from Safari in the last few months, but I can also say they likely will go back at some point. It's a revolving door. Chrome is the most widely used browser right now in our experience. This is due in part to Google mandating some certificate changes that are coming to fruition now.

My point if that all confused you is that having two or three browsers installed on your machine isn't a big deal. I would suggest it for anyone.

I hope this helps.

Joe

[Mike Holbrook]

Joe, I understand the argument for having different browsers. I use to run several. I believe the issue with PWW's parent company, however, may have to do with their hardware and or software. Quite a few posters on SMC have had continuing issues getting downloads from PWW for years. I don't think all of the issues I have read about over years all have to do with a single browser. I don't think the issues I have had over the last year or two all relate to a single bowser either.

I spent quite a few years in a previous life working with custom software, configuring/installing & running computer systems and designing and installing data communications networks for an Equifax owned company. I am currently working on a new web site for my small home based company, which I hope will work on multiple browsers and multiple devices (iPhone, iPad, all PC's...). Past experience and the fact that PWW's customer support staff has been unable to explain what their own system was doing leads me to think there might be some sort of issue that the coding staff does not see in their more limited testing of their software and hardware.

All the issues I have researched occurred during heavy traffic dramatically slowing or halting a download. Whatever software is handling these downloads does not seem to know what to do when the download takes longer than "expected". I did some of my own testing, using Safari, downloading from PWW, Lost Art Press and other places. I am surmising that since I have never experienced this issue, using Safari, for other types of downloads that the issue is unique to PWW downloads. The PWW software does not provide any kind of indication that their download is working. On my computer I simply get a file with an extremely long, incomprehensible file name. I was able to monitor download progress from the Apple download monitor and see actual estimates of download times and progress. It appeared that confronted with heavy traffic the PWW downloads would simply stop with no further notice. When I clicked on a PWW file that started as a download but never finished I repeatedly found a html file instead of the video. I also found that if I signed out of the PWW system trashed the old file and called back during slower traffic when the download could finish quickly I could succeed. The entire process of figuring out what is going on is made much more complex because the download file names on the PWW downloads make it all but impossible to figure out what they are. Admittedly I can not prove or fix these problems, all I can do is make PWW aware of continuing issues and how/where they occur.