The line in the sand

[Gail O'Rourke]

HI,

I was down in the shop today working on that cradle I was talking about recently.

For cross cuts, I use a very basic cross cut sled that I made....basic but accurate..

What I often do is make a pencil line for a stop on the sled, and then use that pencil line to make all my cuts. They always come out right on and there isn't a problem with this. BUT, I feel obligated to make all duplicate cuts at the same time...

the clock was ticking towards "time to feed the family" and I had to stick with it 5 more minutes...

because next time I might say,

Was I up to the line?
Was I on the line?
Was I just shy of the line?

Anyone else do this? Do you feel more comfortable making your duplicate cuts at the same time? Is there some weird shop thing you do every time?

Just curious.

[Mark Carlson]

Gail,

I dont mark a line but use a stop block for all my repetitive cuts. I do make all these cuts at once because I'm likely to need to move the stop block afterwards. Your line technique is interesting because you could come back later and use the same line. So long as you could remeber what part of the line to use. I wonder if the line technique is accurate enough in all situations. I look forward to see what other think.

~mark

[Jim Hager]

Just a fuzz over or just a fuzz under goes through my head a lot. I have taken a lot of the other stuff like that away by jigging up most of my repetitive cuts. I also have a method of figuring things out that is called the SWAG method. Scientific Wild Axx Guess.:D Works nearly every time. "We are gonna have to use the SWAG method to figure this one out."

[Ellen Benkin]

I use a stop block but I also try to do all my similar cuts at the same time. The same for ripping to a certain width. Once the fence is set I try to do all the cuts then and there because I'll NEVER get it back in the same place. Usually, if the parts that have to be the same are cut at the same time it doesn't matter if they are a hair off the perfect measurement as long as they are all off the same distance. I should also say that I often realize a couple of steps along that there was one more part I should have cut when everything was set. Big sigh.

[Don Baer]

I always position up to the line. Just a matter of habit.
:D

My sleds got more pencil marks on it then I can count (Time to sand it down I think)
:rolleyes:

[lloyd morris]

Gail,

You bring up a good point about marking and making precise cuts time after time. I am dyslexic and measure by tape, rule or caliper as few times as possible on a project.

As much as is practical, I measure the first piece and use it to set up all the duplicate cuts by using a stop block or flip stop installed on my cross cut sled or miter saw system. For me it is fast, easily repeatable and very accurate.
Lloyd Morris

[Vaughn McMillan]

I prefer to make all my critical duplicate cuts at the same time. If I'm making more than one crosscut in the sled, I tend to use a stop block.

I can't think of any specific weird shop things I do every time, although I seem to spend far too much time fixing weird things that I've done. ;)

- Vaughn

[John Hart]

Gail,

I have your exact problem. I get very focused on the line and how I'm cutting. Break that focus and all is lost.
My solution is...Let the family starve..I'm cutting them all now! :D

[Scott Parks]

In my line of work, we have a saying: "measure with a micrometer, mark it with a crayon, and cut it with an axe"....

But, when making cuts, I use a finely sharpened drafting pencil first. But sometimes I put it down and forget where I put it, so then I use any utinsel I can find. If I can't find anything to mark with, then I just make a scratch with my fingernail.....

But when it comes to repetitive cuts, I use a stop block, so all peices are identical....

[Jim Becker]

Stop blocks when possible and measuring with a story stick if I can to insure there is less of a chance for um...human creativity...with repetitive measurments. This, of course, assumes that the story stick was measured out correctly! ;)

[Von Bickley]

I try to do them at the same time using a stop block. ;)

[Dev Emch]

Hi Gail...

I live for speed, accuracy and most of all, laziness.

I have sliding tables on both my martin T-17 and oliver 88 albeit they are significantly different. Since I have not gotten around to putting a "cross cut fence" on the oliver, I dont really use the oliver for multiple cross cuts. The T-17 has a long, 6 foot aluminum fence and added some kick over blocks to it. You measure, set the block and tighten the thumb screw. Then flip over the block. This acts as a back stop and you just place the timber and cut.

I installed a similar system for my vintage DeWalt GE RAS. I know most folks find this pig from the 50s obsolete but I still love it. The fence has an aluminum T slot screwed to a wooden fence and I use similar block stops on it as well. Works great. Just but up against the block and cut. Its brain dead which is good for me as I have to many things in my head to keep track off.:)

The blocks are just two items of hardwood glued and screwed to make a 90 degree corner block. On one side is a hinge and a T bolt. The T bolt rides in the T channel. Just position and tighten. When you dont wish to use the block but want to keep the position, you just flip it out of the way. When you need, flip into position. The channel and T bolts and T bolt knobs are all available from woodcraft and the other outfits. All standard fare for homemade jigs.

Hope this helps a bit.

[Per Swenson]

Gail,

Stop block, yes.
But I also make a master part for repetive cuts.
Spray paint it the color dejour then label it
with marker.
This way I can make the same piece in two hours or two months.
Per

[markgoodall]

You bet......
There are just so many things that will go wrong in my shop if I wait too long. I think the workshop gremlins would come in, erase my marks and draw new ones.
So yes, I absolutely try to do all repetative cuts at once. I'm happy if all come out the same in one batch, I won't tempt fate by trying later in another batch. But mostly, it's because once I've got a fence, blade or bit set just right, I don't want to have to try resetting it back exactly the way it was.

[Bill Fields]

I,m with th estop block crowd.


I'm also with Dev on the useful applications for a decent RAS. On repitive cut-offs or dadoes, ther is nothing simpler than a good RAS and a well-fixed stop-block/flip-stop system.

Bill Fields

[Mike Cutler]

Like the others I primarily use some form of a stop block.
I'm really anal about measuring and marking though. Almost all of the cuts I make are marked out before hand, even repetetive cuts sometimes. I use the same measuring device, and don't change it during a project, and it is always referenced to a 6' Starrett machine rule.

[Bill Arnold]

Stop blocks for repetitive cuts using my panel sled or at the chop saw. Rather than "measure twice, cut once", it's measure twice, cut 14 times! :)

When ripping panels at the table saw that have to match, I set the fence once and run everything that has to match that width.

In any case, I use the same tape throughout a project for critical measurements.

Regards,

[Bill Grumbine]

Hi Gail

Not only do I cut all the parts using a stop block, I usually cut at least one extra, because it is almost guaranteed that there will be a problem with a subsequent machine set up which will require going back to remake the aforementioned part! :eek:

Bill

[Jeff Sudmeier]

On my most recent project I had to make something like 50 repetitive cross cuts. I set up the SCMS and did them all with a stop block. Like Bill, I made 3 or 4 extra. When it came time to assemble, I had one extra :)

[Mark Singer]

No line no stop block....just by eye...and if you are off....well it just makes your project that much more interesting and unusual:confused:

[Kelly C. Hanna]

You must be good at rolling dice Mark! :D

I use a stop block most of the time for this type cut and nothing can stop me from making them all at once if it's an important ptoject...deckbuilding is different...we can wait til the next day to do some if there's a bunch.

[John Renzetti]

Hi Gail, Like Bill and Jeff I'll use a stop block (actually it's the rip fence on the slider pulled back before the blade). Then use the crosscut fence on the slider and cut the multiple pieces. Also will cut more than I need.
Hats off to Mark, he's got way better eyes than I have. :)
One thing I've learned from making this mistake over and over, is to rush when making these cuts. If I have Mr. Mom duty (and that happens a lot), I won't start if I know there is dinner to make, kids to pick up/drop off etc. )
take care,
John

[Martin Lutz]

i use a crosscut sled all the time. I inlaid a T track in the fence to accept a 5/16" bolt head and use that with a plastic knob to make repetitive cuts. Next time I will also inlay a measuring tape. The system works great and if you have a master piece to refer back to the cuts are 100% repeatable.

[Larry Norton]

Gail, I, too, use a stop block, unless it doesn't have to be perfect, then I use a line.I also make at least one extra piece, especially rails and stiles for raised panel doors. I cut all the profiles on it also.

[Michael Gabbay]

Gail - I use a stop block whenever I can. I'm probably going to buy the longer fence for my Incra Miter Jig so I can do this on really long pieces. I've also stacked pieces and cross cut them together. If you clamp them together with one end perfectly aligned then mark you cut end then they all come out the same. They may be off but at least they are consistently off. This also makes things go faster. The CMS is easier for this but I've also done it on the TS.

Mike

[Mark Singer]

OK so I just was saying something different....OK?:confused:
TIP:What is really terrific with a sled on a cabinet saw is to use the Biesmeyer fence as a stop ....just slide it to the dimension you want...read it from the stick on tape that comes with it at the curser....lock it in place and you can make all the same cuts you want. The distance from the fence to the blade is the same with or without the sled

[Michael Gabbay]

Mark -

Great tip! The obivious soultion. This of course assumes you are using a right side sled.

Mike

[Mike Alagna]

Gail, I use blocks sometimes but usually I just work straight through which doesn't always go over well with the family. I used to try and stop and pick up later where I left off and I would find myself making mistakes etc. Now regardless of what I am doing I always try and finish a task before stopping. Mike

[Gail O'Rourke]

All great replies, thanks for posting...

I have a delivery for a customer this weekend, will post some pics then.

Thanks!

[Mike Cutler]

OK so I just was saying something different....OK?:confused:
TIP:What is really terrific with a sled on a cabinet saw is to use the Biesmeyer fence as a stop ....just slide it to the dimension you want...read it from the stick on tape that comes with it at the curser....lock it in place and you can make all the same cuts you want. The distance from the fence to the blade is the same with or without the sled


Why.. Why.. That's cheating! And I am going to go out and modify my crosscut sled immediately to cheat just like you. :cool:
What a simple and easy solution. Thank's for that tip Mark

[Mark Singer]

Mike,

You don't really need to modify anything... If you want to insure the saw dosn't bind just clamp a 1" piece to the fence and set the fence to 1" over....inotherwords if you want to cut 20" ...the cursor reads 21" and a small 1" piece is a spacer so the workpiece is free when it contacts the blade..

[Tim Morton]

OK so I just was saying something different....OK?:confused:
TIP:What is really terrific with a sled on a cabinet saw is to use the Biesmeyer fence as a stop ....just slide it to the dimension you want...read it from the stick on tape that comes with it at the curser....lock it in place and you can make all the same cuts you want. The distance from the fence to the blade is the same with or without the sled

I do it the way mark does, only I add a piece of wood between the work piece and the fence that comes out once I am ready to make the cut. And is it just me or is it possible this topic got more replies because Gail has a much cuter avatar than say Jim Becker or John M? :D:D:D And I for one say that if she is down in the shop cutting wood, someone should be helping her out by making dinner!!

[Mark Singer]

Tim....I beg your pardon: John M. and Jim B. have very cute avatars ....yours is special too!:rolleyes:
I do it the way mark does, only I add a piece of wood between the work piece and the fence that comes out once I am ready to make the cut. And is it just me or is it possible this topic got more replies because Gail has a much cuter avatar than say Jim Becker or John M? :D:D:D And I for one say that if she is down in the shop cutting wood, someone should be helping her out by making dinner!!

[Jim Dunn]

I too use the method Mark S. suggested. As I've tried it "once" the other way with scarey results.

I used to fix dinner while in the shop but found out the Walnut saw dust was bad for my health:{ So I moved the micro-wave outside.:)