Home Depot return policy change without notification

[Michael Arruda]

Hello all,

I had some small items left over from various things I've done around the house recently and decided to gather them up to take back to Home Depot. These items were purchased at various times over the past couple weeks and I of course misplaced my receipts. Meaning they got washed, tossed, used for scratch paper.. you know how it goes. I didn't think anything of it, as it's never been an issue- take things back, get a store credit, buy more crap I probably don't need.

They rang me out, ran my ID and the return was declined. I was shocked- I do return a lot to HD, but most of the time it's with a receipt- things like, do I need #6x3/4" screws or #8x3/4"? Buy both, return the wrong size next time I go to HD. I return without a receipt every 3 or 4 months I would say, at most. I called the return verification company and they told me I didn't have any bad marks or excessive returns, Home Depot themselves have tightened up returns without a receipt and if I have a problem with that, I need to contact HD in writing and wait 4-6 weeks for a response. No, says I, that just won't do.

I go back in to the returns desk and ask for a number for corporate. The checker goes and confers with someone in the customer service pen and comes back, asks me to step to the side and wait for a store manager. She comes up and I tell her the story I was just told. She says that's nonsense, it has to be me making too many returns and asks for the return denial receipt. I give it to her and wait as she calls the number herself in front of me. They tell her the exact same thing. Incredulous, she tries to tell me it's my return record. I ask her if they said that to her, ir if they said it was a HD corporate change. Reluctantly, she backpedals and says they told her it was corporate, but anyway, she would do an override and accept the return- this time. I thanked her and waited for her to get it done. To occupy my time, I looked up the number and called corporate customer service on my cell while I waited.

By now, the manager was still having some type of issue with the return, so she disappeared and another woman, who I assume may have been a district manager who happened to be at the store, comes to carry on where the other manager left off. I finally get through to CS on the phone, who tells me that yes, they have recently made changes to their returns policy through the verification system. I thank him for the information and go back to the new woman helping me, who has now run the return 3 times with no luck. She says "we'll have to go above manager" and digs into her ID pocket to get out another folded up piece of paper with other higher up pass codes. She gets the return done, give me my store credit and I tell her what corporate just told me. She's noticeably perturbed, apologizes and tells me nothing at all has come down the pipeline to them in the stores on this change. We discuss how this is going to mean managers getting to deal with ticked off customers a lot more now, and I go on my way.

So, in short, Home Depot has unofficially changed their return policy for items paid with a gift card or store credit, as well as any cash based purchases without a receipt. The CS rep from corporate explained to me that gift cards, store credit and cash are all processed the same, and not recorded for tracking in the system- there's no way to look up purchases with any of those payment methods. So basically, now HD will only easily accept returns without receipt on purchases they can search for in the system, made with credit, debit or check payments.


I tell ya, that was the hardest fought $30 worth of gang boxes, conduit terminations and sundry items I've ever returned. It was all small stuff- the most expensive item was a $8 quick release 1/4" quarter turn plastic valve I ended up not needing when installing a water filter system.

-Michael

[eugene thomas]

Home Depot in my area not even sell 1/4" oak veneer ply anymore.....

[Steven Wayne]

I went through the same sort of ordeal recently. The store manager finally got the return done, but it took over an hour.

[ian maybury]

I guess maybe you guys in the US are used to free and easy returns policies, and regard it as a right. We can usually return or exchange something we don't want here for a short period, but not a hope without a receipt and intact packaging - and it's ultimately down to shop policy. It's not routine. Refunds and exchanges are only mandated by law in the case of defective goods.

The underlying assumption is that it's a contract law matter. When you purchase something you technically enter into a contract with the shop that you will buy at a price if they will supply. Once they meet their part in that arrangement then their responsibility ends. Defective goods mean that they have not, which is presumably why returns are only legally required in that case. i.e. the presumption is that you knew your own mind in deciding to enter into the contract.

It's in practical terms a big ask that a shop take back especially small goods - by the time they get over issues to do with the risk of damage to packaging or the product and putting it on shelves and into inventory again it's probably cost more than the item is worth. Especially if a pile of mixed stuff is plonked on the counter, and a stack of receipts has to be ploughed through to process it...

[Gary Yoder]

I guess maybe you guys in the US are used to free and easy returns policies, and regard it as a right. We can usually return or exchange something we don't want here for a short period, but not a hope without a receipt and it's ultimately down to shop policy. It's not routine. Refunds and exchanges are only mandated by law in the case of defective goods. The underlying assumption is that it's a contract law matter. When you purchase something you technically enter into a contract with the shop that you will buy at a price if they will supply. Once they meet their part in that arrangement then their responsibility ends. Defective goods mean that they have not, which is presumably why returns are only legally required in that case. i.e. the presumption is that you know your own mind in entering into the contract.It's in practical terms a big ask that a shop take back especially small goods - by the time they get over issues to do with the risk of damage to packaging or the product and putting it on shelves and into inventory again it's probably cost more than the item is worth. Especially if a pile of mixed stuff is plonked on the counter, and a stack of receipts has to be ploughed through to process it...Good points. It seems inconsiderate of the store to make them go through that whole process, just for my convenience. Don't get me wrong, I do take things back, but only when I make a mistake or buy a bad item. I don't PLAN from the beginning to return items.

[George Bokros]

I too will buy two different items for the same job because I am not sure which will work for the situation. I guess I may start getting stuck with stuff. Now Lowes on the other hand has a sign that says "Hassle free returns." Maybe they will start hassling on returns.

[glenn bradley]

What!?! Changes made around a conference table somewhere in the sky and the word not getting effectively passed down to those who have to stand blue-eyes to brown-eyes with the consumer???
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Unheard of :).

[Jeff Ramsey]

No they haven't. I frequently return items without a receipt and give them the credit card I used, and it's not a problem. Cash? Maybe that would be an issue but they've, for years, tracked returns without receipts and without a matching credit card and have tracked it by driver's license number. Only once did they question me about too many returns without a receipt (and no matching credit card), but they still did the return. Maybe it's your store? HD still has a very liberal return policy.

[Larry Frank]

This is an interesting post and I can see both sides of it. It is costly for a store to process and restock items. If one I s constantly buying things knowing that they will return one of them then I think it is a bit too much. I have read and heard people bragging that they bought a tool, used it and then took it back for a refund.

A store needs to have a clearly stated policy and follow through with it. Where does the store draw the line...unopened boxes, unused tools, or what. We need to remember that we all share the cost of returns in t h at the store works that cost into the prices. Should I pay for someone who constantly returns items?

[Jason Mikits]

My father is the same type of shopper. Buy extra, and return what you don't use. I don't like keeping track of all that paperwork or buying extra, but to each his own.
Just a tip if you're that type of shopper. If you have a smart phone, it may be a good idea to make a folder called HD receipts in your picture gallery. Take a picture of EVERY HD receipt and store it in the said folder. It will take less than 5 seconds. If/when you lose the receipt, You can scroll through your pictures to find all the info on the receipt that the store needs to process the return and save both yourself and employees any hassles.

[Jim German]

I wish HD/Lowes would be a bit more restrictive on their return policy. I'm tired of buying something only to find out that it was clearly a return and is broken or missing something important.

[Duane Meadows]

Can't imagine trying to return something that I don't have the purchase receipt for. Know you are gonna return it... keep the receipt!!! Seems simple enough to me.

[John Sincerbeaux]

Like everything in life, we live by rules that were made for people who can't or won't do the right thing. There are many many people who don't think twice about using a tool or a part for a single job then returning it. Recently I was in someone's house looking at a tile job in progress. The owner of the house went to Costco and purchased two very nice fans to exhaust all the dust from the tile remove. He told me that when the job was done he was going to return the fans. He was almost giddy saying... "Costco takes back everything".
My wife works in clothing retail. You wouldn't believe how many girls/women buy a dress and/or shoes for a single event knowing they will return them.
So, while its easy to get frustrated at Home Depot or any other store, just remember they are just trying to stem the millions and millions in losses from the minority of abusers.
Who likes going through airport security? The frustration and huge inconvenience can be thanked to the tiny fraction of people who are bad:(

[tom suica]

As an experiment try this. If you have Quik Trip Gas stations that is. Go get a hot dog bun fill it with onions mustard sauerkraut onion bits relish and basically make a hot dog bun salad and go to the counter and ask how much. If you don't hear free every single time I slit my throat. They realize so few people abuse the system that its worth it to actively help the people and when they turn their life around they will have special loyalty to QT. (Former RA Manager.)

The only reason there are stupid rules like that is the bad apples that spoil the whole bunch. The home depot in your area could be a test site for new rules and to see if its more profitable to pull out the whole roll of red tape. shake you down for a 30$ return.
Just like they try new laws on the new England area and that norm Abrams area.

Don't be offended its probably more localized than you think. Also may have to do with personal opinions.

For example if the manager was someone that you picked on in middle school and you did not recognize the person any more. Or perhaps some hateful person of another race that dislikes your people was having a little power trip... List goes on.


Retail shrinkage is defined as a reduction in inventory due to shoplifting, employee theft, paperwork errors and supplier fraud. These contributing factors increase exponentially when your place of business happens to be in a high risk area. What is a high risk area? Depending on where you live it may simply be a popular mall or busy part of town with enough foot traffic that a would-be shoplifter can easily blend in. More often it is a store located in a somewhat undesirable part of town; some place where the socio-economic status of the surrounding community lends itself to an increased crime rate. from "http://www.retailloss.net/retail-shrinkage-in-high-risk-areas-atlanta.html"

I found this article blaming the booster (someone that buys stolen stuff and resells I presume)

[Peter Aeschliman]

Tip: sign up to have your receipts emailed to you. I assume this is an option for everybody, but here in Seattle, you can do an email receipt.

For credit card purchases, it remembers my email address and the prompter asks me if I want my receipt emailed to me. For cash purchases, I assume you have to re-type your email address each time, but if you're worried about the above scenario, this is the only way to go. Or just keep your receipt. Or just us a credit card (i personally go this route since I want the airline miles and I don't like to carry cash).

Good to know though!

[Victor Robinson]

Thanks for the heads-up. Sounds like we should 1) save our receipts (or sign up for email receipts) if we think we might return something and 2) pay with searchable form of payment (e.g. debit or credit).
I kind of get it - they have to deal with a fair amount of fraud in the returns process...

[Greg R Bradley]

There is lots of fraud on returns without a receipt, particularly items supposedly paid in cash. One of the big box stores lost about $500,000 on returns of an expensive faucet that was actually a cheap faucet in the box of the expensive item paid in cash. The expensive ones were then sold without packaging to installers.

I recently returned an extra rotary hammer core bit that I bought in 2002. Certainly didn't take a minute to come up with the receipt.

Lowes and Home Depot commercial cards have your purchase history available without the receipt. I'm guessing they have the same with their consumer cards. I'm pretty sure Lowes has all purchase/return history available with their "My Lowes" membership that isn't tied to any payment method. You will have a bigger problem finding the exact same item after a time as they change all the time.

I'm convinced at this point that being desperate enough to buy most hardware from big box stores doesn't work out. They have a few items like Spax, GRK, etc. but most is just garbage. Stocking up from a good supplier will save lots of grief, probably save money also.

[David Kumm]

i think most stores return policy is too liberal. We expect the lowest prices and not only great customer service, but also to have the retailer relieve us of our responsibility to do our homework, buy the right stuff, and live with our mistakes. That enabling raises the costs for everyone. Dave, who has more inventory than HD because I take the responsibility but don't always do the homework.

[John Donhowe]

A friend of mine works at HD, who thinks that the return policy hasn't changed- it's just that they've started enforcing it more strictly. The reason is that there's an epidemic of theft in big box stores, which has changed tactics. It seems that rather than risking being caught with big ticket items- which usually have security alarm tags inside the box, it's much easier to stuff small items (plumbing fittings, small hardware, etc) into pockets or backpacks. They then return them for store credit (obviously no receipt). When they get enough small ticket store credits, they use them together to buy an expensive tool, which they can sell on CL or ebay for cash.

In that light, it seems the path HD has taken is preferable to alternatives, such as having to check bags when entering the store, or having all bags, pockets, and receipts checked when leaving the store. If you do like the privilege of buying extra items, just in case, then keeping the receipts, using a credit card, or having email receipts sent is a relatively small inconvenience.

[Peter Aeschliman]

A friend of mine works at HD, who thinks that the return policy hasn't changed- it's just that they've started enforcing it more strictly. The reason is that there's an epidemic of theft in big box stores, which has changed tactics. It seems that rather than risking being caught with big ticket items- which usually have security alarm tags inside the box, it's much easier to stuff small items (plumbing fittings, small hardware, etc) into pockets or backpacks. They then return them for store credit (obviously no receipt). When they get enough small ticket store credits, they use them together to buy an expensive tool, which they can sell on CL or ebay for cash.

In that light, it seems the path HD has taken is preferable to alternatives, such as having to check bags when entering the store, or having all bags, pockets, and receipts checked when leaving the store. If you do like the privilege of buying extra items, just in case, then keeping the receipts, using a credit card, or having email receipts sent is a relatively small inconvenience.

Good grief. That sounds like more work than just earning money legitimately.

[Steve Peterson]

I wish HD/Lowes would be a bit more restrictive on their return policy. I'm tired of buying something only to find out that it was clearly a return and is broken or missing something important.

I agree completely. We all end up paying extra to make up for the people that abuse the system.

I usually check every boxed item and won't purchase it if there are signs that it has been opened before.

Steve

[Lee Schierer]

I was just in Lowes a few minutes ago at the return counter. The guy in front of me was returning a floor air register for a heating system. The front face was bowed in. When the clerk asked if there was anything wrong with it he said no. It was obviously damaged and it was unlikely that it could be straightened to be like new. The clerk had no idea what it was or what it was supposed to look like. He had a receipt.

[Prashun Patel]

It's eye opening to stand in a long returns line and see what and how people return.

It's enough to make me embarrassed to be in the line and take my 1/2 used box of screws back home and just eat the $4.50...

[Yonak Hawkins]

i think most stores return policy is too liberal. We expect the lowest prices and not only great customer service, but also to have the retailer relieve us of our responsibility to do our homework, buy the right stuff, and live with our mistakes. That enabling raises the costs for everyone. Dave, who has more inventory than HD because I take the responsibility but don't always do the homework.

I agree with you, David. Easy return policies keeps prices high for everyone.

I have to take issue with the "great customer service" point, however. The last time someone at Lowe's actually took me to the item after I asked where it was, I nearly fainted. Once I loaded six sheets of plywood onto a cart while three "associates" stood around a fork lift, talked about their weekend plans and watched me.

[Mike Heidrick]

I appreciate the liberal return policy of Menards and Lowes. Working on my building the past few months I buy tons of stuff, have tons of receipts, with all forms of payment, and some items go a month or more before knowing what I do and do not need. I end up with that loose bag or 3 of returns and I don't want to sort through 50+ receipts (real or digital) to find which one it was purchased under. Menards easily gives me the store credit and it is always at the lowest price in the last 30 days or so, I may even loose some money doing it but it sure makes it easy.

These days customer service at these kind of stores keeps customers coming in. Treated like that would make me drive literally across the street to the next store selling the exact same items. Just another color receipt.

Menards always asks if I would like help out to the truck with ply too - and a few times folks eagerly helped load it on the cart.

[David Kumm]

I agree with you, David. Easy return policies keeps prices high for everyone.

I have to take issue with the "great customer service" point, however. The last time someone at Lowe's actually took me to the item after I asked where it was, I nearly fainted. Once I loaded six sheets of plywood onto a cart while three "associates" stood around a fork lift, talked about their weekend plans and watched me.

I agree. I didn't mean we get great service, just that we expect service even when we price shop. Put two similar stores together and the one with higher prices but great service will be the first to fail. Dave

[Peter Quinn]

It's about time they end that liberal returns foolishness. Biggest problem with it is people expect it in other facets of their lives where the sales and cost models are significantly different. I can remember one customer at my last bosses retail wood business ( he sold wood, ran a full service millwork/cabinet shop and flooring manufacturer). Guy buys a section of 16/4 mahogany for a mantle, they agreed to sell him a piece of a 16' section which was exceptional as the posted policy was "Whole boards only". And we then flattened/planed/dimensioned/sanded said giant chunk of wood once the gentleman realized that his carpenter did not have the resources to do so. So the board that HE picked had a slight dark brown mineral streak on one face....and one face of a mantle is nearly always invisible but that's beside the point. He tried to return said log "because it had a crack in it....", he got very upset that it could t be returned....kept saying "but Home Depot takes returns"....we told him to take it there and see what they would give him for it!

i have a relative and several friends over he hears that have worked for the big retail hardware chains.....we always enjoy discussing the best "returns" stories at holidays. So many crooks in this world. But lately the problem is drug addicts that steal from one store and return to another no receipts, get store credit buy goods, fence these....we end up paying for their drugs in higher costs on everything. I don't owe them drugs. No receipt....get out! I buy everything on one card, get email receipts on big items, returns are simple still for legitimate customers.

[ian maybury]

It's a different deal over here Mike if you're a large and regular customer - as in a contractor or something. Lots will put out stuff expressly on a sale or return basis. The quid pro quo though is the implication that (a) there's a decent volume of business involved, and (b) that you will at least give them first shot at keeping any ongoing business.

More generally (and not to say that it wouldn't happen here (or that it doesn't)) - i struggle with the thought that the ability to return goods gets treated as a matter of right at times, or is just simply abused. Given that it's got to be very tough to adminsiter a returns policy in that environment any meaningful way. Next step must be a tightening of policy that will bite the more honest up the ass too.

The flip side of that though is that there's box store chains operating here that operate equally predatory pricing policies. Their advertising continuously waffles about low prices, there's a few (usually end of line of marginally defective) loss leaders stacked up front by the way in, or they sell part of a system at a decent price - but mark up the stuff needed to complete it and everything else to a level to make your eyes water. (especially when you know what it costs through trade channels) Then add in the fact that on anything complex like fasteners the volume/fast moving items disappear and 3 years later might not have been replaced. Or they screw supplier prices down so tight that the product ends up being almost useless.

I guess to your average tunnel visioned corporate accountant or purchasing officer one screw or tool is the same as another. Something is wrong though when these companies can build premises on perhaps 8 - 10 green field sites in what is a tiny market (Ireland), make the payments and presumably also pay dividends to shareholders. While leaving a trail of destroyed suppliers and local mom and pop stores that actually did know a bit about the product and the market behind them. That sort of rate of expansion should not be financially feasible. The trick seems to be to concentrate enough money and buying power to enable this sort of abuse.

There's a very odd exception, but one core issue at the centre of both of these scenarios tends to be authoritarian hierarchies. Most floor staff by and large (there's the odd exception) have long since had any motivation or willingness to take responsibility for stuff hammered out of them. I've discussed this with a few. Everything that matters seems to get decided at corporate level and handed down by dictat, and there's typically a stressed out local manager who has no authority but who runs around feverishly trying to keep his ass clean.(despite not having the authority/control to do so)

The very last thing this guy (or his bosses in corporate) wants to hear is of problems or improvement suggestions from floor staff - yet this is the life blood of any normal business.

When things go pear shaped, then it's almost inevitably a case of knee jerk hiring another psychopathic boy wonder MD in corporate at an enormous salary who proceeds from his ivory tower/distorted perception of reality to wreak further destruction. Nobody wants to enage with reality, all want fixes described in one syllable...

[Michael Arruda]

Folks, I didn't mean I have a problem with the policy- it's nice to have available, but I don't take it for granted. Home Depot gets my patronage more than other stores as a result of it, as I consider it a perk to have available, but I in no way expect it in other business dealings. As Home Depot tightens the reigns on their return policy, I will still shop there but won't go out of my way to do so- if I can get to Lowes or OSH easier, I will do so. That's free market- when everyone is around the same price for goods, it comes down to service that defines where we shop. Since none of the big box stores have anything in the way of service as far as having knowledgable staff, the criterion for comparison comes down to tertiary perks, like a good return policy.

I take issue with people buying things and returning them in opened or damaged packaging, or items that have been used. I will return excess items, but not if they were opened or used, unless they were defective. I do not buy and return things every week, and don't feel I abuse the system. I also am keenly aware of the number of crooks misusing the system, living not only in southern california, but a rather poor area of it.

I take no issue with HD tightening the reins on non receipted returns, my problem is that they decided to make the change on a corporate level without notifying customers or staff. This is just stupid and is going to end in ticked off patrons expecting the status quo. If you are going to make a change like tightening up the policy, let people know and do it. It's not rocket science. I have no problem with the policy being tighter and will endeavor to keep better track of my receipts, or purchase with a card more often. I was just letting folks know this change has been set in motion without telling anyone.

-Michael

[John Donofrio]

There is lots of fraud on returns without a receipt, particularly items supposedly paid in cash. One of the big box stores lost about $500,000 on returns of an expensive faucet that was actually a cheap faucet in the box of the expensive item paid in cash. The expensive ones were then sold without packaging to installers.



This reminded me of something that happened to me years ago.

Being a computer geek I just had to have a scanner and the only (affordable) ones at the time were the hand held models you roll across the page, so this tells you about how long ago this was (these were in the $300-$400 range at that time)

Finally decide to take the plunge so I go to the local Best Buy and they have one in stock, cool. We (I was with a friend) get it home, I tear into it and what do I find? An MSDOS book that fit real nicely into the space the scanner should have been. I was in shock, literally I think.

My friend and I immediately head back the store, I'm in a panic. Why wouldn't they think I did it to get a free scanner?

We locate the girl who checked me out and she did remember me. We both assured the manager that the package was shrink wrapped at checkout time (it was). I remember slightly overhearing a conversation between the store managers about this and it not being the first time something like this had happened.

They refunded the money and I never did get that handheld scanner, a good thing I suppose since I'm still not sure what I was going to do with it, but I had to have it. The point is there will always be those who are not concerned about the effects of their actions on anyone but themselves, consequences be damned.

[Mike Henderson]

I didn't know that I could get a receipt emailed to me when I made a purchase at HD. Thanks for the info. I went into my HD account and updated my info (wrong credit card in the account). Having receipts in electronic form will be terrific - never a lost receipt.

On topic, HD, along with many other stores, has a problem with people stealing goods and then returning them for cash. Personally, I think they should require a receipt if you paid cash. If you paid with a credit card, they can check that you bought it if you give them the credit card number. Such a policy would help all of us because we all pay for the fraud - the cost has to be put into the pricing.

Mike

[Val Kosmider]

Perhaps it is because I live in the "genteel" south, but my experience with HD returns has been very positive (and quite frankly, I can take or leave their store and do most of my Big Box shopping at Lowes).

But..i had a Ryobi router bit....several years old....says on the original package "guaranteed against materials and workmanship"....so when the bit snapped I took it down to my local HD. After several customer service people helping me, and the guy in the tool department matching the old bit to a new (spiral, I might add) model from another manufacturer (they no longer carry Ryobi in that store) I was back to customer service. Because they no longer carry Ryobi there was no way to "process" the return, so....well....."here"!

I have no idea how they handled it internally, but clearly their focus was on making me happy, and figuring out how that "fit" with corporate policy was something they would do later on.

I was impressed with the way the handled MY end of it......but when you think about repeating that a thousand times a week in every store...it will become costly, to say the least.

Buy two; take the other back? Okay...once in a while...but all the time? That just sounds to me like poor planning, expensive use of time, and taking advantage of the goodwill of a company trying to "do the right thing".

[Peter Aeschliman]

I didn't know that I could get a receipt emailed to me when I made a purchase at HD. Thanks for the info. I went into my HD account and updated my info (wrong credit card in the account). Having receipts in electronic form will be terrific - never a lost receipt.

Mike, I'm not sure if you can sign up for email receipts on the web site. Looking through my account settings online, I don't see an option where I can opt in to emailed receipts. I had to sign up using the pin pad/card reader in the store.

But maybe it's all linked so that if you have an email address associated with your credit card online, it will identify your email address at the register and give you the option. If so, that would be pretty slick.

But you might need to do it next time you're in the store.

[Robert Engel]

If you return too many times without a receipt they flag you.
Its a way to prevent fraud.

[Tom Walz]

Take stuff back? Good heavens, why?

What are my favorite things is to go fix something in the house and find that I have the tools and the parts I need on hand. Of course this means a two-minute repair and no trip to the hardware store but it still feels good.

[Michael Arruda]

Oi, Robert and other folks that are responding WITHOUT READING what I wrote, let alone what other people wrote. This has NOTHING to do with too many returns- Home Depot has covertly tightened their return policy such that they are moving to a model of not accepting ANY cash, gift card or store credit purchases WITHOUT a receipt. Let me reiterate one more time- that's FINE by me. I will take better care of my receipts, not a problem. The issue, and why I brought this to the attention of you all, is because HD has CHANGED their return policy WITHOUT telling anyone. SO, I'm just letting you all know so you don't do what I did, expect a simple return as it always has been, and stand there for an hour while the issue is sorted because even the store level employed haven't been notified of this change.

The concept of easy returns is an advent of the big box stores; from what I understand (I'm only 30) before the big stores decided to start taking returns for any reason in the interest of customer satisfaction, returns were only for defective items. I still shop at stores that take this stance; it is what it is and I don't have problem with it. My issue is that HD has established a relationship with it's customer base on a pretense of easy, no hassle for any reason returns. They are now changing that dynamic without telling ANYONE. It was obviously coming, with the number of people misusing the policy and stealing things just to return them. A business model can absorb only so much fraud before good people have to be affected too. I understand this. I have no problem with this. I don't like it that this change has been made without telling anyone. Even worse, it's been instituted based on their return authorization aggregator, meaning that people like me, who return things without a receipt 3-4 times a year, are made out to be a crook in the eyes of the checker and anyone else in line behind me. It was embarrassing and inappropriate. Just tell people you're making the change!

Thanks,
Michael

[Andrew Hughes]

Thanks for the heads up Michael,I will start managing my receipts better.When I buy from Home Depot.👍

[Brian Henderson]

I wish HD/Lowes would be a bit more restrictive on their return policy. I'm tired of buying something only to find out that it was clearly a return and is broken or missing something important.

Exactly. The only time I ever return anything is when it's broken, or, in one case, where I bought a bunch of things off the same peg and one of them was incorrectly placed and I got the wrong item and had to exchange it. I always have the receipt too, if I don't, it's my fault and I just keep the item. People need to take responsibility for themselves and stop pretending that it's HD or Lowe's responsibility to make them happy.

[Brian Henderson]

In that light, it seems the path HD has taken is preferable to alternatives, such as having to check bags when entering the store, or having all bags, pockets, and receipts checked when leaving the store. If you do like the privilege of buying extra items, just in case, then keeping the receipts, using a credit card, or having email receipts sent is a relatively small inconvenience.

They can't legally do that, the courts have decided that time and time again. When you buy something, it is yours and the store loses the ability to look through your stuff, just as much as they can't try to search through your wallet. Your property is your property. The only exception are membership stores where you have given them the right, in writing, as a consequence of being a member. Even then, they can't force you, they can just rescind your membership if you refuse. But for stores like Wal-Mart, Target, Home Depot, etc., they are treading on very shaky legal ground and you can safely ignore them and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it.

[Michael Arruda]

It is interesting to me when people make straw man arguments without considering the facts in a situation, especially when said arguments are meant to degrade others and place oneself higher.


People need to take responsibility for themselves and stop pretending that it's HD or Lowe's responsibility to make them happy.

When has anyone in this discussion said anything to the contrary? I don't expect to take an item back to a store that demands receipts for returns and try to force them to accept the return. that's just asinine. The implication in the above statement is that I and others do just that. The issue you choose to overlook is that We are not looking to some other source to cover our mistakes- losing receipts- but rather an institution that has set a policy to uphold said policy. None of this would have come up if HD had made notification that they had tightened up their returns in a logical and equitable manner, either on the back of receipts or a note at registers, whatever.

This is not an issue with them not accepting the returns, but rather an issue with them changing a widely known and held policy without telling anyone, even their own employees. change the policy to say "no returns on cash purchases without a receipt" instead of saying "Yes, we still accept all returns, subject to verification by our returns authorization system," then changing that system to make it kick back any cash returns. it's deceptive.

The second they acknowledge the change and let everyone know, I will have no problem with it- it's a courtesy they extended a long time ago to accept these kinds of returns, and as with any business, it's their right to change the conditions of any policy they set. This is NOT A RANT against HD for making the change, it was just to let you all know the change was made, since HD has decided to slight their own customers and staff by not telling anyone.

Please, everyone, read before you post and make cogent arguments based on what you read, don't read half of the first post and respond half cocked. It degrades the conversation and makes you look silly.

Thanks,
Michael

[Peter Aeschliman]

Michael,

Your view is very clear to me (and I assume most everybody). Not unreasonable at all. I think some of the comments you're reading are not in direct response to your original post, but rather, just people going on tangents that are only sort of related to your post... i.e., like my posts about emailed receipts. I doubt the above quote was directed at you.

Do not take offense, my friend! ;)

[Mike Henderson]

Mike, I'm not sure if you can sign up for email receipts on the web site. Looking through my account settings online, I don't see an option where I can opt in to emailed receipts. I had to sign up using the pin pad/card reader in the store.

But maybe it's all linked so that if you have an email address associated with your credit card online, it will identify your email address at the register and give you the option. If so, that would be pretty slick.

But you might need to do it next time you're in the store.
I did a chat with the HD representative and she assured me that if I registered for the HD website (which I was already registered on) and if I put in the credit card I planned to use, they would tie the purchase to me through the credit card and email me a receipt.

She also said that I could register multiple credit cards. I had an old credit card on the account - I hadn't checked the account in a long time. But we shall see the next time I buy something there.

Mike

[Ole Anderson]

Tip: sign up to have your receipts emailed to you. I assume this is an option for everybody, but here in Seattle, you can do an email receipt.

For credit card purchases, it remembers my email address and the prompter asks me if I want my receipt emailed to me. For cash purchases, I assume you have to re-type your email address each time, but if you're worried about the above scenario, this is the only way to go. Or just keep your receipt. Or just us a credit card (i personally go this route since I want the airline miles and I don't like to carry cash).

Good to know though!

I was going to say basically the same thing. I use my CC and opt for an email receipt every time at HD. If I pay cash and don't keep my receipt, I don't expect to be able to return it. And I dump my email receipts in an Outlook folder named Receipts. 42 so far in the last 18 months.

[Lloyd McKinlay]

is the experience described above is an outlier. It it reasonable to believe with the tens of thousands of transactions processed each day the system might hiccup once in a while. I just spoke with someone fairly high up in the local store and they haven't experienced any problems. Further with all the Creekers apparently nobody else has experienced a similar situation. My guess is a system glitch and much ado about nothing.

[Brian Henderson]

It is interesting to me when people make straw man arguments without considering the facts in a situation, especially when said arguments are meant to degrade others and place oneself higher.

No, the whole point here isn't to insult you or anyone else, it's to make you realize what's really going on here. Most companies track returns with no receipts because a sizeable percentage of people who do that regularly are stealing from the company, either shoplifting or buying stolen merchandise online and then returning it to the store, either for a cash refund or a store credit. This is loss prevention for these companies and HD is hardly the only one that does it. I know that Target, for a long time, had a policy that you could only return so many things without a receipt per year, after which, they just wouldn't take any more back.

I know that Lowes, if you use your Lowes credit card, can just look up your receipt online and there's no harm. I would assume that HD could do the same thing with their own credit cards. For other cards, obviously, they have no access to that information. Obviously, the best option is to just keep your receipts, have them e-mailed to you, take pictures of them, etc. You will have no problem getting a return if you do. Getting mad at HD because they have perfectly valid security concerns is more than a little silly.

[Larry Frank]

One part of the confusion was when the OP stated "I return a lot to HD". This may have confused some people as to the purpose of the post. Maybe, we misunderstood the post.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Here's another twist on HD. Here they don't consider Ace to be a competitor, even though there is an Ace store located half way between two local stores. But they do consider Amazon to be a competitor. Go figure!

[Chris Padilla]

I did a chat with the HD representative and she assured me that if I registered for the HD website (which I was already registered on) and if I put in the credit card I planned to use, they would tie the purchase to me through the credit card and email me a receipt.

She also said that I could register multiple credit cards. I had an old credit card on the account - I hadn't checked the account in a long time. But we shall see the next time I buy something there.

MikeCool. I'll have to do that. I'm tired of keeping track of paper receipts although my HD, so far, has let me slide WITHOUT a receipt or two HOWEVER, via my credit card used, they found my receipt anyway so no biggie.

[mreza Salav]

Here in Canada if you purchase with your CC you can return (without receipt) if you have your CC and they can track it down.
I'm not sure if it's good that they keep my CC information but it sure is easy for returns as I really don't need to keep a receipt.

[John Lankers]

IMO, the generous return policies many big box stores are offering are a form of courtesy and in no way are they obligated to do so and if I owned a retail store my policy would be - no receipt no return.
I can't say whether HD has changed their return policy but I could easily understand why they would. Walmart released last years numbers a few weeks ago and they posted (if I remember correctly) $8 Billion - with a 'B' shrinkage due to theft and fraud.
My son worked part time at the local, relatively small, CO OP hardware store while in High School when the lady working the customer service counter made up fake cash returns and was eventually charged with theft over $150.000. She was picked up by police at home while hosting a big family event.
I'm not saying that any HD employees are dishonest, but at our CO OP it was the employee causing great damage. As I am a CO OP member she also affected my bottom line.

[Michael Arruda]

Sorry if I made it sound like I was in HD returning items every week. Most returns I make in the year are to Home Depot, which amounts to 1 a month or so. Let's say 12 returns a year. Of those 12, 3-4 are without a receipt.

I do agree that the whole return policy is a courtesy extended to the consumer, and it can be removed or augmented at will. Though I have utilized returns without a receipt on cash purchases, I can honestly understand why it would be changed, and to that point, I don't take issue. For every person like me that sees it as a convenience, I'm sure there's at least 1 or 2 others that see it as an opportunity for fraud. For instance, I met a guy that got a couple cases of something or another at a trade show. He found out the next week after looking at retailers, that Wal-Mart carried the exact same thing, so he proceeded to return the cans, two or three at a time, over a couple months, and was quite happy with himself to have turned nothing into $200 worth of credit at Wal-Mart. He didn't see a problem with it, as Wal-Mart is still making money on reselling the item, but I told him it's fraud, plain and simple.

The issue I take here is that the policy has been modified without notice. It's pretty sneaky. As far as it being isolated, I don't think so- if you look upstream, one of the first commenters noted they had to deal with the same thing. I was also told this information not only by The Retail Equation, the comply that HD uses to verify returns, but also from HD corporate customer service.

Honestly, I'm surprised so many stores have such lenient return policies, with so many people trying to make a fast buck in our society today. If it was all changed tomorrow I wouldn't fault any of them- just tell your customers and your employees.

-Michael

PS- Home depot tracks ALL credit and debit purchases, their own card and any others you use, as well as check payments, so if you use any of those options, returns will proceed as normal, regardless of receipt or not. This only pertains to untracked sales that can't be looked up- cash, gift card and store credit.

[David C. Roseman]

Guess I don't understand what the fuss over the return policy is. :confused: Just make the purchases with a credit card. For me, it's much more convenient than cash, and Home Depot is way ahead of most retailers when it comes to ease of returns of cc purchases. For years they have digitally archived every purchase you make with a cc. Doesn't have to be a Home Depot card. No need to keep a paper receipt. No need to have one emailed to you (who really wants more email clutter, anyway??). When you return an item, just hand the clerk the card you bought it with. He/she can instantly pull up the confirmation, with date and price, and credit the return back to the card. What could be easier than that? Plus, use one of the better cash-back cards and all the purchases will instantly be at least 1 percent cheaper, and made with OPM until the next billing cycle, so long as you don't carry over a balance. ;)

[Mike Schuch]

I understand your frustraition and have some sympathy. There is another end of the spectrum when it comes to returns. Photography is another of my hobbies and I also frequent photography forums. More than a few photographers BRAG about buying the latest greatest cameras and lenses from what ever online store and keep them 59 days to play with then return them for what ever excuse. One photographer was absolutely incrediolous that Amazon canceled his Prime account and black listed him permantly from Amazon for too many returns. The rest of the forum didn't have much sympathy for him.

My girlfriend has a coworker that buys the latest and greatest TV from Costco, keeps it for 11 months, then returns it and buys the next latest and greatest TV... and has been doing this for years.

Too me both these mentalities are little more than theives and add cost to everything that I purchase.

Same girlfriend, had a house completely destroyed by tennants. Over the course of 2 years we gutted the house and completely refurbished it for my gf to live in with her son. We easily spent over $10,000 between Lowes and Home Depot. After the house was (mostly) finished we returned about $800 worth of unused thises and thats. Home Depot had the easier return policy of the two. I do not feel bad about returning that $800 in merchandise. And we do frequent HD more than Lowes because of their better return policy.

It seems to me return policies should be some where between making customers angry for not allowing any returns and letting customers ripp off the store by having too generous of a return policy. I think blacklisting customers from returns should be made on a customer by customer basis under the descression of a human looking at what was bought and what was returned.

Me... If Idon't need those #8 screws this project I am confident I will use them in a later project... as a matter of fact I usually buy the bulk boxes of screws. After 25 years of doing my own plumbing, purchasing the fittings I need and might need then hanging onto the extras in my plumbing fitting drawers I still never have the fitting I need!

[John M Bailey]

I cant imagine being desperate enough to darken the door of Lowest or Home Despot.
I

[Mike Schuch]

I cant imagine being desperate enough to darken the door of Lowest or Home Despot.
I

The local lumber shop is always first for materials.... but they aren't open during the evenings and weekends when I need the quick what ever to finish a project. I have also scored great deals at both HD and Lowes. We picked up a $400 60" quarts vanity top for $25. It had a huge chip in one corner BUT it was going into a 54" opening so it didn't matter.

Before we started the house project I told my GF to assume that what ever a HD/Lowes employee tells you is pure fiction and you will come out ahead 75% of the time!

[Carl Hunsinger]

In that light, it seems the path HD has taken is preferable to alternatives, such as having to check bags when entering the store, or having all bags, pockets, and receipts checked when leaving the store. If you do like the privilege of buying extra items, just in case, then keeping the receipts, using a credit card, or having email receipts sent is a relatively small inconvenience.

Just my hang up, maybe, but if I were ever searched either coming or going, that would the last time they would ever see me.

Carl

[Matt Meiser]

Doubt they want to discourage the "I'll buy extra and return what I don't need" crowd (which I'm part of.) Bet the amount of stuff that doesn't get returned is far greater than the cost of taking the returns that do. I know when I moved I had boxes of extra hardware, electrical and plumbing do-dads saved for another time. Then the other time would come and I couldn't remember what I had so I'd buy extra. Over and over.

[Enrico Caruso]

I have my own gripe with Lowe's 10% discount policy for veterans, which they brag about and, which I, as a proud veteran and American Legion member have availed myself to. On my last trips to different Lowe's stores, I was refused the veteran discount because they will no longer recognize the American Legion card as proof that you are a veteran. They are now requiring a special card which must be obtained from the VA office. There is no VA office near me, and I am unable to drive (40 miles to get one), so I am SOL on getting one. Again a poor example of an unannounced policy change.

[Yonak Hawkins]

Mike, I'm not sure if you can sign up for email receipts on the web site. Looking through my account settings online, I don't see an option where I can opt in to emailed receipts. I had to sign up using the pin pad/card reader in the store.

But maybe it's all linked so that if you have an email address associated with your credit card online, it will identify your email address at the register and give you the option. If so, that would be pretty slick.

But you might need to do it next time you're in the store.

Every time I make a purchase one of the steps at the register is a question asking if I want the receipt e-mailed to me. I know I'm plenty paranoid but I always decline, figuring I don't need to provide another avenue for them to spam to me.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

Tip: sign up to have your receipts emailed to you. I assume this is an option for everybody, but here in Seattle, you can do an email receipt. For credit card purchases, it remembers my email address and the prompter asks me if I want my receipt emailed to me. For cash purchases, I assume you have to re-type your email address each time, but if you're worried about the above scenario, this is the only way to go. Or just keep your receipt. Or just us a credit card (i personally go this route since I want the airline miles and I don't like to carry cash). Good to know though! yes! This works great! I usually get the email before I've left the parking lot. Gmail nicely filters them all into a Home Depot folder too

[Brian Henderson]

Here in Canada if you purchase with your CC you can return (without receipt) if you have your CC and they can track it down.
I'm not sure if it's good that they keep my CC information but it sure is easy for returns as I really don't need to keep a receipt.

For Lowes, I know you can do it with your Lowes card. I assume HD lets you do the same thing. I wouldn't imagine they'd have access to purchase records for any other cards.

[Judson Green]

Home Depot in my area not even sell 1/4" oak veneer ply anymore.....

Yup, ¼ and ½" oak ply are gone from my local HD. I never bought em anyways but I'm very surprised to see em not stocked.

[David Cramer]

Yes, that's definitely part of it, employee theft (I worked at a Big Box Store years ago).

As for returns, "most" stores, if they know you, aka recognize you as a frequent shopper, will return anything within reason.

I did not work in the returns, but I frequently saw contractors return boxes of parts and poor them out on the counter. No big deal. Home Depot is happy for what they bought and the time to scan those items and re-shelf them is all figured into their wages...part of their job. The returns employee would simply scan the items, ask for a receipt, and issue a store credit card if they don't provide one. The plumber or electrician didn't steal the items and 9 out of 10 times, the guy in electrical or plumbing, me:), watched the contractor picking up his items in the department days earlier.

Do people steal small items and return them, of course. But after x amount of times, the manager has the right to refuse. The customer can call their district manager and/or go all the way up to corporate in Atlanta. Trust me, they have their history and can look things up. Most dishonest people don't call or ask for the district manager as they don't want to stand out, aka being remembered, because they want to continue doing what they've been doing and try to stay under the radar.

In Home Depot, they won't stop you or grab you if you walk past a register with a tool, or whatever, and haven't paid for it. They can call the police, etc...but employees can't grab you. Loss prevention has a different set of rules, but not "regular" employees. They can write your plate down, they can yell out "wait, you didn't pay for that", but they cannot physically grab you.

My point, theft is big and shrinkage is worked into the prices, regardless, they will still try to recoup what they can at the return counter with no receipt items, as unless they know you, it's possible that it was stolen. Trust me, I've seen contractors return "OLD" drills with their company names on them (in permanent marker), years of use, NO receipt, and want a full refund or 5 brand new drills. It's not hearsay, I was there. My first few weeks, I would stand there bewildered at what I was witnessing. Then, after a short few weeks, nothing phases you.

I witnessed more than one person fill up a cart of tools and go right out the front door. I could NOT touch them or impede them, believe it or not and it happens more than most realize, which unfortunately makes them tighten the screws in other places...returns;)

Home Depot netted, not grossed, 1.1 billion dollars in installed sales in 2006 (if my memory is correct). They are not in the business to lose money and overall, their return policy is extremely tame. Before they existed, who would let you use a power tool for 90 days or less and return it for a full refund or get a new one if there was an issue? That was unheard of, even Sears didn't do that.

As others have stated, it's not that bad, just use a credit card, get an emailed receipt, etc...use other avenues to make things easier for yourself.

David


P.s. If Mr. Smith says I won't shop there anymore, trust me, they're fine with that because Mr. Wilson still will.










IMO, the generous return policies many big box stores are offering are a form of courtesy and in no way are they obligated to do so and if I owned a retail store my policy would be - no receipt no return.
I can't say whether HD has changed their return policy but I could easily understand why they would. Walmart released last years numbers a few weeks ago and they posted (if I remember correctly) $8 Billion - with a 'B' shrinkage due to theft and fraud.
My son worked part time at the local, relatively small, CO OP hardware store while in High School when the lady working the customer service counter made up fake cash returns and was eventually charged with theft over $150.000. She was picked up by police at home while hosting a big family event.
I'm not saying that any HD employees are dishonest, but at our CO OP it was the employee causing great damage. As I am a CO OP member she also affected my bottom line.

[Bert Kemp]

Check your financial institution to see if they have card use alerts. Every time I use my debit card I get an alert email that it was used, were it was used and how much I spent.(as good as a recite) A couple years ago before I had this and the main reason for setting it up was someone stole my card info at a restaurant I ate at and racked up 1400$ worth of charges in another state. Lucky for me I was able to prove my were abouts at the time the crooks were using my card. Took 2 weeks but I got my money back, also had to get a new debit card.


yes! This works great! I usually get the email before I've left the parking lot. Gmail nicely filters them all into a Home Depot folder too

[Von Bickley]

Take stuff back? Good heavens, why?

What are my favorite things is to go fix something in the house and find that I have the tools and the parts I need on hand. Of course this means a two-minute repair and no trip to the hardware store but it still feels good.

I'm with you Tom. I seldom take anything back, and I don't buy small plastic bags of screws, I buy a box. I will buy extra screws, nails, pvc fittings, pipe fitting and clamps. If I need something, I can usually find it in the shop. Once you buy them, they are paid for and they don't eat or cost you in the future. I will buy extra boxes of screws in different sizes because one day I might need them.

[Brian Henderson]

In Home Depot, they won't stop you or grab you if you walk past a register with a tool, or whatever, and haven't paid for it. They can call the police, etc...but employees can't grab you. Loss prevention has a different set of rules, but not "regular" employees. They can write your plate down, they can yell out "wait, you didn't pay for that", but they cannot physically grab you.

Just as an FYI, loss prevention can't do anything legally either. Those people are not law enforcement officials, they have no legal power to do anything. They can ask you to accompany them, they cannot lay hands on anyone and drag them away, that is a crime and they can be prosecuted for it. They can issue a citizen's arrest, but that carries zero legal weight, it depends on the "arrestee" agreeing to go along with it. They can just walk away and there's nothing the "arrestor" can do about it. They can follow the person, they can write down license plates, they simply cannot touch the individual or that qualifies as assault. The only reason they have loss prevention people in most big stores is because those people have been trained what they are allowed to do and what they are not allowed to do. That way, stores don't get sued when some overzealous employee decides to throw someone to the ground because they think they're stealing something. It's happened and the stores always lose.

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks for this. Good to know. Next time I shop lift, I'll ride my bicycle.

[Chris Padilla]

I'd steal the bike, too, Prashun. ;)

[Bob Falk]

If you don't have a reciept with a return at Menards, they only give you the last sale price back on the item. I've never had a problem with returns at Home Depot, but I carry a HD commercial credit card (they also give 5% off every purchase)

[John Huds0n]

Just as an FYI, loss prevention can't do anything legally either. Those people are not law enforcement officials, they have no legal power to do anything. They can ask you to accompany them, they cannot lay hands on anyone and drag them away, that is a crime and they can be prosecuted for it. They can issue a citizen's arrest, but that carries zero legal weight, it depends on the "arrestee" agreeing to go along with it. They can just walk away and there's nothing the "arrestor" can do about it. They can follow the person, they can write down license plates, they simply cannot touch the individual or that qualifies as assault. The only reason they have loss prevention people in most big stores is because those people have been trained what they are allowed to do and what they are not allowed to do. That way, stores don't get sued when some overzealous employee decides to throw someone to the ground because they think they're stealing something. It's happened and the stores always lose.

I don't know where you are from, but in California someone trying to make a citizen's arrest can use 'reasonable force' to keep a person in custody until the Police arrive. Citizen Arrests are primarily used in misdemeanor type cases where a Police Officer did not witness the crime - think petty theft or drunk driving. There is no difference between a citizens arrest for a misdemeanor or a Police Officer making the arrest - the crime is the same. In a lot of these 'shoplifting' cases were the suspect is being detained by store security when the Police Officer gets there and starts investigating - they find that the person entered the store with the intent to commit a crime, which then becomes burglary (which is a Felony) and an Officer can arrest for a Felony not committed in their presence, so the citizen's arrest is no longer needed

"Store Policy" may prevent an employee from physically contacting someone, but the law doesn't

[Brian Elfert]

I just returned an item without receipt at Home Depot last weekend and got a store credit no problem. I usually use a credit card, but my credit card only allows me to redeem my rewards for gift cards so I get Home Depot gift cards. I should do emailed receipts, but I use gift cards, but I don't.

I still remember when Home Depot would give cash refunds without receipt on anything with no limits. The returns desk was a lot busier then. People were stealing things and then returning them for cash all the time.

Home Depot, Menards, and all the rest actively encourage folks to buy extra and then return what they didn't need. They know a certain percentage will never be returned. I return everything I don't use as long as the item is unused and still salable as new. I don't want my garage to end up as a warehouse of extra parts. It costs money for that stuff too.

[Robert Engel]

So your main gripe is not the policy but they didn't tell every person in the United States they changed it?

It never crossed my mind to expect a cash refund with no receipt.
You get a store credit if you don't have a receipt and they are being generous even with that.

If you want to gripe about something, how about the scarcity of orange apron people.

[Brian Elfert]

I don't think the policy has changed in quite a while. There is some limit on no receipt returns and has been for a few years at least. I think it is three no receipt returns in 90 days. I have a Home Depot receipt in front of me and it states right on it "The Home Depot reserves the right to limit / deny returns."

Good luck shopping at Lowes. They are almost always the highest priced on just about everything. I guess you are paying more for their "hassle free" returns. I never have had any problem with returns at any of the three home improvement chains.

[Brian Elfert]

What I hate the most about returns at Home Depot/Menards are the guys who have a wallet full of receipts. They wait until they are at the counter to start looking through the stack for their receipt. Sometimes they look at 30 or 40 receipts, don't have it, and then ask for a store credit. Find your darned receipts before you get to the counter! If I have multiple returns with various receipts I will usually have my returns sorted by receipt although the registers now don't make that necessary.

[Clarence Martin]

You mean I can't buy that $7,000+ General International 20 inch helical Planer, run 10,000 BD FT of Iron Wood through it , and then return it in less than 30 days for a FULL REFUND?????:D:p

Dang!!


LOL:D

[Brian Ashton]

Don't think this has been mentioned but no store has to inform anyone that they are going to follow the law more closely. Certain returns are backed up by consumer protection law i.e. not fit for purpose, defective... but not convenience or customer satisfaction returns. And, why should they, negative advertising isn't exactly what stores strive for.

[Clarence Martin]

If you think that their return policy is bad, imagine buying a product from a store, finding out an hour after it was delivered and set up, that the product was all rusted inside. The store you bought it from won't deal with you and tells you to take it up with the manufacturer.

2 Months later, you get the manufacturer to give you your money back !!

[Ole Anderson]

Everything I buy at HD is through my non-HD credit card. I always say yes when asked if I want an e-mail receipt also. I have a folder on my PC for HD email receipts. 127 at last count. Always toss the receipts. When returning an item they just want my credit card and it automatically pulls up the transaction. No problem. Never even had to print out a receipt from my PC. I do believe they are now adding a last-date-for-return to the receipts. If you pay cash and can't produce the receipt you have no business expecting a refund unless it is a HD only product, unopened.

[John K Jordan]

I like the emailed receipt idea. I've never done that but I can see it's a smart thing to do.


... If you pay cash and can't produce the receipt you have no business expecting a refund unless it is a HD only product, unopened.

A friend who worked at HD said they have a huge problem with people walking out one door with stolen goods then coming in the other door to return them, unopened, unused, but no receipt. He said work gloves are a popular target since they can be stuffed into clothes. I have no idea how to combat that without hiding security tags on everything in the store.

He also said people will also buy things in boxes, replace the contents with something worthless of equal weight, then reseal and return for cash with the cash receipt in hand. I bought a garden sprayer at HD once that was caked with residue of deck stain where someone bought, used, then returned. And on a public photography forum one person told how he gets good photo lights for a job for free - buy, use, return. Gasp.

It astounds me to even know about such things.

JKJ

[Jim Koepke]

And on a public photography forum one person told how he gets good photo lights for a job for free - buy, use, return. Gasp.

IMO, there is a special very hot uncomfortable place reserved for people like this.

My wife's first husband thought he was smart for doing this. His son by his second wife just got married. He was not allowed to attend. His children by my wife do not want to have anything to do with him. They all get along with me.

Most of the time when there are things bought for a job that were not needed they go into my parts accumulation instead of being returned.

jtk

[Al Launier]

WOW! 79 responses to this thread. Sounds like the OP hit a nerve.

It seems to me that many abuse the practice of buying things using guesswork instead of homework. Buying several items to ensure getting the right thing and then to return the non-used items for a refund without a receipt, and doing so much later is a lot to ask.

If you have to get multiples to save yourself a trip back place the receipt with the extra items. I can only ask if it were your business would you be so accommodating? Businesses have to absorb this extra cost by pricing it right back to the consumer. A large retail store can usually handle this better than a small business, but sometimes the larger stores do go out of business too.

Also, if practicing multiple purchase to get the right thing, at least return it to the same store, otherwise a store at a different location has to absorb the expense rather than the original store.

Ole's idea is a good one!

And to hear of some of the tactics used like those stated above in post #80 is incredible.

I was told by a friend who worked at Lowes that they are very well aware of the thefts that go on, yet it is not worth the expense to challenge the thieves, so in most cases dealing with small items they don't bother. I didn't realize how commonplace this was.

[Erik Loza]

...I bought a garden sprayer at HD once that was caked with residue of deck stain where someone bought, used, then returned...

This is funny. My trusty Dremel tool (10 years old) died literally right in the middle of a project over the weekend. So, I run over to HD and buy a replacement. Open it up from the plastic clamshell case and the whole tool is covered in dust. Not sawdust but like, "house dust". As it if had been sitting on the shelf for a while. REALLY DUSTY. The cardboard sleeve did not appear to have been opened previously. At least that I could tell. And nothing else inside the clamshell was dusty, just the Dremel tool. I HAD to get this project done that afternoon and the tool worked fine, so keeping it, but that was really weird.

Erik

[Jim Becker]

WOW! 79 responses to this thread. Sounds like the OP hit a nerve..

The thread was started in 2015...

[Ken Fitzgerald]

A couple years ago I was in HD shopping for a carpet cleaner. A guy walking by, stopped and asked me what I was buying. After I told him, he stated he came into the store, bought one, took it to the new home he was buying, used it to clean all the carpets in the house he was buying and then returned it for a refund. I am often surprised places like HD and Costco have such a easy return policy. Do people realize or even care that once something is used, it can't be sold as new and the business can lose money or profit? In the end, the buying public pays higher prices to make up for the people who do this stuff.

[Edwin Santos]

WOW! 79 responses to this thread. Sounds like the OP hit a nerve.

It seems to me that many abuse the practice of buying things using guesswork instead of homework. Buying several items to ensure getting the right thing and then to return the non-used items for a refund without a receipt, and doing so much later is a lot to ask.

If you have to get multiples to save yourself a trip back place the receipt with the extra items. I can only ask if it were your business would you be so accommodating? Businesses have to absorb this extra cost by pricing it right back to the consumer. A large retail store can usually handle this better than a small business, but sometimes the larger stores do go out of business too.



I understand your point of view, especially from the ground view. But most larger, sophisticated retailers view this issue from a high level and the thinking in support of a liberal return policy is as follows:

1. A meaningful number of customers buy multiples with the intention of returning the unused product, and never get around to doing the return - Retailer wins
2. A trip back to the store to do the return results in some % of customers making another purchase now that they're there - Retailer wins
3. Making it painless to return things makes the customer buy if in doubt i.e. "I'm not sure, but I'll just buy it anyway because I can always return it" - Retailer wins
4. A trip back to the store for a return brings the customer back on the premises. This is what they also spend $$ in advertising to do - get you in the store - Retailer wins
5. The studies show that customers are creatures of habit and the no-hassle policy of returns results in relationship acquisition - Retailer wins
6. A retailer who folds his arms, shakes his head and says no, I won't take this return back, maybe lecturing the customer in the process, will accomplish the opposite of all these things, in other words - Retailer wins one battle, but loses the relationship, hence the war

Another note, HD is very clever, if you sign up for their credit card, in addition to the sign up perks they offer, you get one year to return an item. So guess what, in this case if that feature attracted you, then the enhanced return policy is a form of cc customer acquisition, and credit cards are a monster source of income to retailers and the partner issuing bank.


Every once in a while I see a suggestion that using a return policy is unethical, or at least borderline unethical. Personally I don't agree with this. I generally think the retailers are sophisticated, competent business people who set up their policies knowing the pros and cons, risks and rewards. To take them up on it is no less ethical than taking a tax deduction that the IRS allows.
Though I do agree that examples like the one of the guy "renting" the carpet cleaner that he had not intention of keeping is pushing it. But again, the retailer knows a small % of people will do things like that and their financial guys have built an allowance reserve into their financials for it, kind of like a bad debt allowance (not that it makes it okay for the ill-intentioned customer to do so). A tough return policy might win the retailer some nickels but lose them dollars.

How many successful retailers (not mom & pops) do you know that have tough return policies?

Amazon has now made it this easy - on many items, you don't even have to repackage the item to send it back, you have the option of simply taking it to the UPS store unpackaged and show a QR code on your phone and they take it from there.

[Doug Dawson]

It seems to me that many abuse the practice of buying things using guesswork instead of homework. Buying several items to ensure getting the right thing and then to return the non-used items for a refund without a receipt, and doing so much later is a lot to ask.


What difference does it make? All it costs them is the minimal labor to put something back on the shelf, which is repaid by the good will of the customer.

[Mike Henderson]

My wife was at a party and noticed a tag on another's woman's dress. She had a folding scissors in her purse so she offered to cut the tag off for the woman. But the woman said, "No, I can't cut that off. I'm going to return this dress tomorrow."

Mike

[Roger Feeley]

I agree completely. We all end up paying extra to make up for the people that abuse the system.

I usually check every boxed item and won't purchase it if there are signs that it has been opened before.

Steve

I guess I'm the sucker. I try to buy the opened stuff. I don't mind the damaged packaging. I do check the item inside to make sure everything's there..

[Curt Harms]

I was in the tool section of Home Depot recently and noticed a couple pairs of bolt cutters that appeared WELL used judging by their jaws. They were being sold as new. I guess the hope is that people would buy the used one, take it home and return it rather than a new looking one.

[Kev Williams]

My wife was at a party and noticed a tag on another's woman's dress. She had a folding scissors in her purse so she offered to cut the tag off for the woman. But the woman said, "No, I can't cut that off. I'm going to return this dress tomorrow."

Mike
There are online clothing places where they let you try clothes and return them if you don't like them, could've been that sort of deal. I guess the minor catch is, if you buy from them it's likely you'd be aware of the possibility someone's worn them before. But then, how long have fitting rooms been in existence? ;)

There's a real easy fix for dealing with cash sales, that nearly every B&M store can do with their current cashiering equipment and be paperless to boot: the cashier types your first name into the register, you sign the CC machine's screen, take your stuff and go home. Your sale is now recorded with what you bought, where you bought it, the date, your name and your signature. It would be reasonably failsafe, the actual buyer could easily prove he WAS the buyer, a thief not so much, and just by trying he'd put himself in jeopardy of being caught in possession of stolen goods. AND, with your cash sale being recorded, it'll deter the chronic bringer-backer's...

[william watts]

I am feed up with with squares​ that aren't square, parallel clamps that aren't parallel, and tools with steel so soft they bend at the first use. Three weeks ago I purchased a Makita 2012nb planer from HD. Every few passes the work would not feed, wnen it did feed it cut a small snip. I expected a snip even though the POP
Material says "no snip" Exhanged it for another one, same make and model. This one would not feed at all. Returned the second one and received a refund , no questions asked. The reason I purchased this, and many other items from HD is their return policy. I have never bought, used, and returned any item that worked properly. HD needs to know what products have a high failure rate, the manufacturer needs to know and the consumer needs to receive products that work properly. It must be good for business or the policy fade away.
Bill

[Mark Flippin]

That's a great idea

[Doug Dawson]

I am feed up with with squares​ that aren't square, parallel clamps that aren't parallel, and tools with steel so soft they bend at the first use. Three weeks ago I purchased a Makita 2012nb planer from HD. Every few passes the work would not feed, wnen it did feed it cut a small snip. I expected a snip even though the POP
Material says "no snip" Exhanged it for another one, same make and model. This one would not feed at all. Returned the second one and received a refund , no questions asked. The reason I purchased this, and many other items from HD is their return policy. I have never bought, used, and returned any item that worked properly. HD needs to know what products have a high failure rate, the manufacturer needs to know and the consumer needs to receive products that work properly. It must be good for business or the policy fade away.


Yes indeed. If a product is unsuitable for its purpose, you should be able to return it, but of course you need to _tell_ them that it's a useless piece of ..., in a way that makes it clear that that's why it's being returned. That's why they ask. Things should eventually be set right, with the manufacturer or whatever.

[william watts]

Yes indeed. If a product is unsuitable for its purpose, you should be able to return it, but of course you need to _tell_ them that it's a useless piece of ..., in a way that makes it clear that that's why it's being returned. That's why they ask. Things should eventually be set right, with the manufacturer or whatever.

Well, they do ask "anything wrong with it" and I tell them.

[Jon Nuckles]

A couple years ago I was in HD shopping for a carpet cleaner. A guy walking by, stopped and asked me what I was buying. After I told him, he stated he came into the store, bought one, took it to the new home he was buying, used it to clean all the carpets in the house he was buying and then returned it for a refund. I am often surprised places like HD and Costco have such a easy return policy. Do people realize or even care that once something is used, it can't be sold as new and the business can lose money or profit? In the end, the buying public pays higher prices to make up for the people who do this stuff.

This is how I feel about people who avoid paying sales/use tax on online purchases or otherwise cheat on their taxes. They take advantage of the system and everyone else pays a higher rate to make up for the dishonest ones.

[Ole Anderson]

This is how I feel about people who avoid paying sales/use tax on online purchases or otherwise cheat on their taxes. They take advantage of the system and everyone else pays a higher rate to make up for the dishonest ones. Hold on... We don't choose to not pay taxes, they choose not to charge us. Although that has pretty much stopped. And we often buy online because the selection is often much better than available locally. Not to mention pricing. No dishonesty here bub.

[George Bokros]

Hold on... We don't choose to not pay taxes, they choose not to charge us. Although that has pretty much stopped. And we often buy online because the selection is often much better than available locally. Not to mention pricing. No dishonesty here bub.

Same here. In addition though is that it saves a lot of time running around to get the item even if it is available locally.

[Jim Becker]

Hold on... We don't choose to not pay taxes, they choose not to charge us. Although that has pretty much stopped. And we often buy online because the selection is often much better than available locally. Not to mention pricing. No dishonesty here bub.

Actually, people do "choose" not to pay the sale tax when it's not collected because pretty much every state that has a sales/use tax has a mechanism (and requirement) for us to pay sales/use tax at Income Tax Return time (15 April more or less) on purchases made online that did not collect sales tax. While that has indeed stopped with retailers who do more than a particular amount of business in various states due to recent law changes, it still happens with smaller firms.

One other place that some folks make choices...folks who own businesses and have a tax exemption number. That tax exemption isn't "blanket" for all purchases. It only applies to things like materials use to produce a product or to be resold, etc....the exact requirements are state specific. PA actually regularly reminds businesses about this via various communication channels. While I'm careful to only claim tax exemption on applicable purchases, I know a lot of folks who but all kinds of things for personal use or even business use that technically do not qualify for sales tax exemption. It's a choice that people make.

[Jon Nuckles]

Hold on... We don't choose to not pay taxes, they choose not to charge us. Although that has pretty much stopped. And we often buy online because the selection is often much better than available locally. Not to mention pricing. No dishonesty here bub.

As Jim pointed out, your state’s sales tax law almost certainly requires you to pay “use” tax even if the seller did not collect “sales” tax. They are the same tax and are the responsibility of the buyer in either case. The seller only collects sales tax from the buyer and transmits it to the taxing authority. And your taxing authority did not “choose not to charge” you, they just don’t currently have the power to compel some online sellers to collect it for them. As you note, that is changing.

There are many reasons to buy online, but you still have the obligation to pay taxes on those purchases. Bottom line, you are being dishonest whether you are aware of it or not.

[william watts]

Here in California retailers are not required to collect sales tax, only remit it to the state. Now and then an ad appears with a big header that states " buy this Gizmo and don't pay the sales tax". The seller still pays it to the state with his own budget. The consumer would not be responsible to report on his income tax. Randomly a state auditor my come to your business,​ just to check.

[Edward Dyas]

Hello all,

I had some small items left over from various things I've done around the house recently and decided to gather them up to take back to Home Depot. These items were purchased at various times over the past couple weeks and I of course misplaced my receipts. Meaning they got washed, tossed, used for scratch paper.. you know how it goes. I didn't think anything of it, as it's never been an issue- take things back, get a store credit, buy more crap I probably don't need.

They rang me out, ran my ID and the return was declined. I was shocked- I do return a lot to HD, but most of the time it's with a receipt- things like, do I need #6x3/4" screws or #8x3/4"? Buy both, return the wrong size next time I go to HD. I return without a receipt every 3 or 4 months I would say, at most. I called the return verification company and they told me I didn't have any bad marks or excessive returns, Home Depot themselves have tightened up returns without a receipt and if I have a problem with that, I need to contact HD in writing and wait 4-6 weeks for a response. No, says I, that just won't do.

I go back in to the returns desk and ask for a number for corporate. The checker goes and confers with someone in the customer service pen and comes back, asks me to step to the side and wait for a store manager. She comes up and I tell her the story I was just told. She says that's nonsense, it has to be me making too many returns and asks for the return denial receipt. I give it to her and wait as she calls the number herself in front of me. They tell her the exact same thing. Incredulous, she tries to tell me it's my return record. I ask her if they said that to her, ir if they said it was a HD corporate change. Reluctantly, she backpedals and says they told her it was corporate, but anyway, she would do an override and accept the return- this time. I thanked her and waited for her to get it done. To occupy my time, I looked up the number and called corporate customer service on my cell while I waited.

By now, the manager was still having some type of issue with the return, so she disappeared and another woman, who I assume may have been a district manager who happened to be at the store, comes to carry on where the other manager left off. I finally get through to CS on the phone, who tells me that yes, they have recently made changes to their returns policy through the verification system. I thank him for the information and go back to the new woman helping me, who has now run the return 3 times with no luck. She says "we'll have to go above manager" and digs into her ID pocket to get out another folded up piece of paper with other higher up pass codes. She gets the return done, give me my store credit and I tell her what corporate just told me. She's noticeably perturbed, apologizes and tells me nothing at all has come down the pipeline to them in the stores on this change. We discuss how this is going to mean managers getting to deal with ticked off customers a lot more now, and I go on my way.

So, in short, Home Depot has unofficially changed their return policy for items paid with a gift card or store credit, as well as any cash based purchases without a receipt. The CS rep from corporate explained to me that gift cards, store credit and cash are all processed the same, and not recorded for tracking in the system- there's no way to look up purchases with any of those payment methods. So basically, now HD will only easily accept returns without receipt on purchases they can search for in the system, made with credit, debit or check payments.


I tell ya, that was the hardest fought $30 worth of gang boxes, conduit terminations and sundry items I've ever returned. It was all small stuff- the most expensive item was a $8 quick release 1/4" quarter turn plastic valve I ended up not needing when installing a water filter system.

-MichaelI don't know of any store that will take items back without a receipt. There is a small lumber company next door to my HD that sells a lot of items cheaper than HD. Without a receipt you could buy those items and go next door to HD and take them in for a refund and make a profit. What I don't like is Home Depot taking items back that were misused or used and put them back into inventory. I've bought lumber before that has had saw cuts on it. I've seen recessed light fixtures with overspray all over them. I did a tile job yesterday where I bought 6x6 wall tiles only to find out two of them were 5 1/2"x6". Someone had cut them and took them back. I was able to use the two in places I had to cut but I could easily had to make another trip back to the store to do the job.

[George Bokros]

I purchased an electric razor at the local Walmart. When I went to take out of the package I noticed that the inside of the package and razor were covered with the results of some one having used the razor, it was covered in the whiskers. I returned it and made Walmart aware that the condition was gross.

[Edward Dyas]

I purchased an electric razor at the local Walmart. When I went to take out of the package I noticed that the inside of the package and razor were covered with the results of some one having used the razor, it was covered in the whiskers. I returned it and made Walmart aware that the condition was gross.I've made a purchase at walmart and damaged the box a little getting it open. Then find out the product was defective so I took it back. A few days later I see the item I returned back on the store shelf. Recognized the box. I guess they figure they will eventually sell it to someone not willing to return it.

[Ole Anderson]

Bottom line, you are being dishonest whether you are aware of it or not.

Dishonesty is doing something intentionally which you know is wrong. Acting without honesty. Many of us choose to have a professional prepare our taxes, so we are not aware of the nuances in the sales tax laws of each state. So we not being dishonest. Hold up your hand anyone that voluntarily keeps track of all of your online purchases where tax was not collected.

[Jim Becker]

Many of us choose to have a professional prepare our taxes, so we are not aware of the nuances in the sales tax laws of each state.

As part of the tax preparation process, your paid preparer should be asking you if you have any sales/use tax to declare for out of state online purchases if your state has sales/use taxes...they cannot answer the question on the return forthrightly without asking you that. You may not know the answer, but they have to ask if it's on the return. Tax preparation software that many of us use to do our own taxes also asks the question as do the paper forms for most, if not all states, that have sales/use taxes. The issue has been in the press quite a bit over the past few years as new regulations are passed. So I'd contend that for "most folks", there's little reason for them not to know about it. As in all things about the law, not knowing the law does't release us from it, either.

But yes, it's absolutely true that most people do not keep track and remit. That's why many states are now requiring (legally enforceable) that out of state vendors who's revenue from their state exceeds a certain amount must collect and remit sales tax at the state's rate for purchases by residents of their state. PA requires that now, by example. I suspect it will not be much longer until this becomes universal and that the only thing holding it back is the complexity that it poses for small business software to be able to track, maintain and remit sales/use tax for the over 3000 individual jurisdictions in the US that would apply.

[John K Jordan]

One other place that some folks make choices...folks who own businesses and have a tax exemption number. That tax exemption isn't "blanket" for all purchases.

I have no business but a farm and get farm tax exemption. Careful not to abuse it. Fortunately, the farm stores make this easy and automatically omit sales tax on items that qualify, for example animal feed. I don't get charged sales tax on peacock feed but do on bird seed since it can be used for song birds and such, even though I buy it to mix with the poultry feed. The stores also charge tax on things like fencing and such, for example anything that is permanently attached to the ground is taxable, at least here.

JKJ

[Kev Williams]

Bottom line, you are being dishonest whether you are aware of it or not.
Bull****. If I'm not aware of something, how can I possibly be dishonest about it?

With all due respect: Suppose your kid is smoking dope in the garage late at night but you don't know it. And one day the neighbor complains about the smell. So you tell him "sorry, nobody here smokes dope."

--By your rationale, you're being dishonest with the neighbor.

Negligent, maybe. Dishonest, not hardly...

[Bert Kemp]

Now you got me wondering, a lot of times I'll have my daughter in NH buy something for me because she has prime and I don't. It gets free shipping that way but NH has no sales tax ans AZ does. I never noticed it they charge her sales tax because she sent it to me here in AZ . I'll have to ask her about that.

[Jon Nuckles]

Bull****. If I'm not aware of something, how can I possibly be dishonest about it?

With all due respect: Suppose your kid is smoking dope in the garage late at night but you don't know it. And one day the neighbor complains about the smell. So you tell him "sorry, nobody here smokes dope."

--By your rationale, you're being dishonest with the neighbor.

Negligent, maybe. Dishonest, not hardly...

The difference between your example and the tax situation is that in your example, the person isn’t aware of the illegal action. In the tax case, the person is aware of his action or inaction, but is somehow not aware that it is illegal. That’s a very important distinction in criminal law. Otherwise, you could drive 55 mph in a school zone or even shoot your neighbor as long as you could honestly say you were unaware that to do so was against the law. We all have a responsibility to learn the laws that govern our actions, and the sales/use tax laws are well publicized.

So I retract my statement that you are being dishonest, but you are violating the law.

This is all sort of beside the point of my first post, which was intended to call out those who know they should pay this or any other tax and don’t. They tell themselves that their taxes are too high and they are “only” cheating the government. In fact, they are cheating all of their fellow citizens who have to pay higher rates to make up for the tax cheats. I apologize for not making that more clear.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Exact opposite from original poster. I ordered FOUR tires thru Walmart, shipped to the store. They came in two shipments, and I picked up FOUR tires. Two weeks later, I get an email from Walmart telling me because I didn't pick up two of the tires, they were being credited back to my CC. First went out and looked at van and made sure there were four new tires on it, (There was.) Tried on multiple occasions, without success to contact Walmart. Even filled out the online customer experience survey, and stated that I had received FOUR tires, not two. So now I'm riding on a couple tires that Walmart actually owns.

[Doug Garson]

Bull****. If I'm not aware of something, how can I possibly be dishonest about it?

With all due respect: Suppose your kid is smoking dope in the garage late at night but you don't know it. And one day the neighbor complains about the smell. So you tell him "sorry, nobody here smokes dope."

--By your rationale, you're being dishonest with the neighbor.

Negligent, maybe. Dishonest, not hardly...
In a way you are dishonest, you are saying no one here smokes dope as if it is a fact when actually you don't know that for a fact. If you said "as far as I know, no one here smokes dope" or "I don't think anyone here smokes dope" then you are honest but to state as a fact that no one here smokes dope when you don't actually know if anyone here smokes dope that is dishonest. Admittedly it is a bit of trap because even if you asked your son and were told no, you still wouldn't know for a fact. Obviously we are talking hypothetically, I'm not suggesting anyone would lie.

[Bert Kemp]

Now you got me wondering, a lot of times I'll have my daughter in NH buy something for me because she has prime and I don't. It gets free shipping that way but NH has no sales tax ans AZ does. I never noticed it they charge her sales tax because she sent it to me here in AZ . I'll have to ask her about that.
UPDATE they do charge me tax if she orders in NH but sends to me in AZ418109
U

[Rob Damon]

I only return items if they are defective. If I buy extras because I am too lazy to do up front research to find the right part and I buy extras, I take the hit and keep it.

I got tired of buying things from HD when they ended up being a returned item.

If they only have one item and it clearly has been opened I ask the sales person if they have one in stock that has not been opened. If they find one I buy it. If they don't have one that is unopened, I point out that the one on the shelf has clearly been purchased and returned and they should not be selling it as new. I will offer them 50% of the new price for the used item, if I believe it is going to be fine. Most of the time they mark it down on the spot.

I do not want to drive up the cost of buying things at any store just to return five 8 cent screws...………...

[Al Launier]

I understand your point of view, especially from the ground view. But most larger, sophisticated retailers view this issue from a high level and the thinking in support of a liberal return policy is as follows:

1. A meaningful number of customers buy multiples with the intention of returning the unused product, and never get around to doing the return - Retailer wins
2. A trip back to the store to do the return results in some % of customers making another purchase now that they're there - Retailer wins
3. Making it painless to return things makes the customer buy if in doubt i.e. "I'm not sure, but I'll just buy it anyway because I can always return it" - Retailer wins
4. A trip back to the store for a return brings the customer back on the premises. This is what they also spend $$ in advertising to do - get you in the store - Retailer wins
5. The studies show that customers are creatures of habit and the no-hassle policy of returns results in relationship acquisition - Retailer wins
6. A retailer who folds his arms, shakes his head and says no, I won't take this return back, maybe lecturing the customer in the process, will accomplish the opposite of all these things, in other words - Retailer wins one battle, but loses the relationship, hence the war

Another note, HD is very clever, if you sign up for their credit card, in addition to the sign up perks they offer, you get one year to return an item. So guess what, in this case if that feature attracted you, then the enhanced return policy is a form of cc customer acquisition, and credit cards are a monster source of income to retailers and the partner issuing bank.


Every once in a while I see a suggestion that using a return policy is unethical, or at least borderline unethical. Personally I don't agree with this. I generally think the retailers are sophisticated, competent business people who set up their policies knowing the pros and cons, risks and rewards. To take them up on it is no less ethical than taking a tax deduction that the IRS allows.
Though I do agree that examples like the one of the guy "renting" the carpet cleaner that he had not intention of keeping is pushing it. But again, the retailer knows a small % of people will do things like that and their financial guys have built an allowance reserve into their financials for it, kind of like a bad debt allowance (not that it makes it okay for the ill-intentioned customer to do so). A tough return policy might win the retailer some nickels but lose them dollars.

How many successful retailers (not mom & pops) do you know that have tough return policies?

Amazon has now made it this easy - on many items, you don't even have to repackage the item to send it back, you have the option of simply taking it to the UPS store unpackaged and show a QR code on your phone and they take it from there.

Good insight to the business side of things. I hadn't given much thought to the points you made. Well stated! I've always thought that if people "short changed" businesses, causing a loss in profits, we could be "short changed" if they go out of business, i.e. profits are good for all of us

[Bill Dufour]

Home Depot does have a policy that if you return too many things too often they stop the no receipt return policy for you for a few months. I use my credit card for all HD purchases to generate a paper trail for returns and to show I am buying a lot more then I return.
Bil lD.

[Mike Henderson]

Home Depot does have a policy that if you return too many things too often they stop the no receipt return policy for you for a few months. I use my credit card for all HD purchases to generate a paper trail for returns and to show I am buying a lot more then I return.
Bil lD.

If you register your credit card with Home Depot they will email you a copy of your receipt. I do that so that I have a record of all my purchases on my computer. And if I need to take something back I can print out the receipt.

I don't remember exactly how to do that registration. I signed up for the HD Pro program and it may be part of that program. But however it's done, it's a very valuable feature.

The one thing that Lowes does that I wish HD would do is that Lowes will register your veteran's status to your credit card so that any time I make a purchase at Lowes and use my registered credit card, I get the veteran's discount. At HD I have to find a clerk and have them enter the discount.

Both companies allow you to register multiple credit cards so if you use different cards for different kinds of purchases (personal, company, for example) it's no problem.

Mike

[Frank Pratt]

On a related note; in Canada, the CRA (our version of the IRS) has compelled HD to turn over the purchasing records of HD commercial credit card holders. It's a campaign to reduce the underground economy that flourishes in the home reno market. I bet that will trigger a ton of audits.

[Jim Becker]

If you register your credit card with Home Depot they will email you a copy of your receipt. I do that so that I have a record of all my purchases on my computer. And if I need to take something back I can print out the receipt.

I don't remember exactly how to do that registration. I signed up for the HD Pro program and it may be part of that program. But however it's done, it's a very valuable feature.

You do it at checkout on the CC terminal. The first time you register an email address with a particular credit card, it will remember it. If you use a different card, you need to put in an email address for that card and it will remember it going forward. If your card number changes (because of a replacement, etc), you have to re-do the email thing as I found out recently with my business card. This does work out nice for me because personal receipts go to my personal "shopping" email address and business purchases go to my business email address.

[Joe Hendershott]

The only thing I would add is imagine how much HD loses when some things are returned. I can't but it must be astounding. We buy a huge amount there and do, like others here and buy a couple sizes and take back the stuff that isn't right. We just use a card and do not usually keep receipts on small items. Just return, swipe the card, and they see the item right away. Even if I chose not to have one emailed they email it anyway.

The one thing that surprised me recently though was buying some arc fault breakers. Bought 28 of them and they had some new security device that the cashier, and even the manager, did not have a tool to cut them off. So they decided to cut the packaging to get them off. When I asked about returning with a cutup package the manager said not to worry as they just trash everything. Costs too much to deal with them. So that right there would be more than a $1000 if I returned them. Imagine the amount each store each day.

[Mike Henderson]

The only thing I would add is imagine how much HD loses when some things are returned. I can't but it must be astounding. We buy a huge amount there and do, like others here and buy a couple sizes and take back the stuff that isn't right. We just use a card and do not usually keep receipts on small items. Just return, swipe the card, and they see the item right away. Even if I chose not to have one emailed they email it anyway.

The one thing that surprised me recently though was buying some arc fault breakers. Bought 28 of them and they had some new security device that the cashier, and even the manager, did not have a tool to cut them off. So they decided to cut the packaging to get them off. When I asked about returning with a cutup package the manager said not to worry as they just trash everything. Costs too much to deal with them. So that right there would be more than a $1000 if I returned them. Imagine the amount each store each day.

I know for a fact that they reshop items that are returned at the store I go to.

But an easy return policy gets people to purchase. Not only to purchase but to purchase more and some of that more is never returned. Without a return policy I'd be hesitant to purchase.

Mike

[Frank Pratt]

Being able to purchase multiple sizes, shapes, kinds, etc. of an item and return what's not needed is a tremendous benefit for the consumer. I'm more than happy to pay the additional cost of such a system that is built into the price of the goods sold. Imagine the amount of wasted time, fuel, and vehicle wear there would be if all sales were final.

I don't understand the view of some that buying excess & returning the unneeded portion is somehow a sin, or an abuse of the system.

And that comment by the store 'manager' that they just throw returns out is pure BS. That was probably the assistant night duty manager that had just started there last week.

[Jim Becker]

The local HD I shop at handles returns pretty well...they ask if there are issues and segregate anything that 'was not worthy' into separate "return to supplier" carts and put returned products that are just excess or with no problems (according to the customer returning them) into re-stocking carts. And yes, even without a physical receipt, purchases made with a CC show up in the register when they scan the items and the CC to verify the prior purchase.

[lowell holmes]

Maybe you fellows should go to Lowes.
I have a Home Depot near by and occasionally go there, but I have a credit card at Lowes.

[Frank Pratt]

I don't think anyone is complaining about HD's return policies being too harsh. Just the opposite; some feel they are too lenient.

[lowell holmes]

There is a Lowes store 1/4 mile from our Home Depot. Both stores are very accomodating.

Imagine that. :)

[Mark Bolton]

My lord. Reading through these comments makes me realize a total lack of concept or consideration for the supplier (forget about the retailer in this instance). Do you all realize that often times the big boxes force their vendors into blanket acceptance of any and all returns without recourse? This is why there are now labels inside products saying "do not return this item please call this number". Home Crapo is not bearing the brunt of the returns, the vendors who are picking up tractor and trailer loads of returns and boxes with items that were used for a job and returned fraudulently, bought by someone and it sat in their basement for a month gathering dust and they returned it, and now Home Depot is suppose to dust off the box to get it back to a pretty item so you'll put it in your cart? The ones who return the most are usually the ones who wont take a box with a piece of tape on it without a discount lol. Its insane. If any of you were in business and selling a product and forced to live by your own rule you're heads would explode and I would guess would be the most vocal complainers about the returns cutting into your profit.

I honestly have no idea whatsover how these business models stay afloat. There is no way the volume covers the loss but I would guess the profit margins do. I once was going to order a pair of hiking boots that cost $250 a pair and called the online shop asking how the sizes ran and they told me to just order a pair or two above and below my size and keep the pair that fit best and return the rest?!?!? So not only am I going to lock up 1500.00 of my credit card for a couple weeks to try on some shoes, I am going to return 2-4 pairs of shoes that have been opened, tied, worn, walked in, the cost to the vendor and the planet for the return freight (at their cost) and then they will likely ship the returned pairs out to someone who will reject them because they have clearly been tied up? (they probably re-tie before shipping but still).

I remember sitting in the stride rite as a kid and the owner would go in the back and fit me with a pair of shoes that may have been tried on nine times for all I know. Never thought twice.

I go into my lumberyard who gives me great service and when I have a job that can use a bunch of scabs/blocking material I dont even think twice and just load some of the picked over material from the retail crowd to help them move material. The service they provide pays for itself far and away more than arguing over a discount for a piece of packing tape on a box.

My lord. We are doomed. Part of me says pour it on the big boxes. They made their own misery with no question returns. Its unfortunately spawned a horrible horrible consumer mindset.

If I were home depot I would tell the people returning beat up crap to go pound sand. And just like they look in everything when your checking out I would be looking in the returns. And when someone returns a taped box and its loaded full of rocks or junk the cops would have their info, license, photo, and so on. I have several friends that have worked on the vendor/supply side of the big boxes and they, and the consumers, leave some horrifically insane scenarios in their wake.

Its simply unsustainable.

[Mike Henderson]

I once was going to order a pair of hiking boots that cost $250 a pair and called the online shop asking how the sizes ran and they told me to just order a pair or two above and below my size and keep the pair that fit best and return the rest?!?!? So not only am I going to lock up 1500.00 of my credit card for a couple weeks to try on some shoes, I am going to return 2-4 pairs of shoes that have been opened, tied, worn, walked in, the cost to the vendor and the planet for the return freight (at their cost) and then they will likely ship the returned pairs out to someone who will reject them because they have clearly been tied up? (they probably re-tie before shipping but still).

To comment just on shoes, the markup on shoes and boots is significant. Part of the need for that markup is that the shoe dealer has to have all sizes and not all of them will sell. The Internet shoe people save money by not having a brick and mortar store but they have the additional costs of shipping and returns.

Perhaps another reason is that people think expensive shoes are better than lower cost shoes so part of the price is just marketing.

Eyeglasses are similar. The manufactured cost of eyeglasses is very small compared to the selling price.

These companies have found ways to price their products and make money. While we may regret the high price of the products, we get what was choose to purchase.

Mike

[Doug Garson]

I agree with Mark, we have become accustomed to expecting to return purchases without question and some people abuse the privilege. I agree it is reasonable to pick up a few extra parts and return them unused a few days later, actually using them and then returning them is an abuse. Not sure if it applies in other markets but there is a chain of four stores in western Canada that sell only open box electronics returns from big box stores including TVs, cameras, tablets, smart phones, Dyson vacuums etc. When I saw the huge inventory in one of the stores and commented on it the salesman advised that 40% of all big box electronics are returned. That's got to have a huge impact on the big box stores bottom line and the pricing that we see. Most suppliers to contractors (plumbing, electrical etc.) charge restocking fees typically around 15%, they probably wave it for their good customers. No surprise their prices are lower than the big box stores.

[Edwin Santos]

I've had the benefit of performing financial analysis on more than one large retailer, so even with that perspective, I don't share the fatalistic view.

There are two kinds of returns at issue here. One type is return policy abuse. This is where a person "rents" an item that they never intended to buy and uses the return policy to do so. Other examples are returning items the customer has damaged or rendered unsaleable for some other reason like extended use.
Then there's fraud. Examples of fraud are when a person steals an item and then tries to "return" it for money i.e. personal gain. Other examples might be buying an item from one store for a given price and returning it to another where it sold for a higher price in an attempt to pocket the difference.
Of course there are also grey areas that fall in between these two definitions. All fraudulent and abusive returns are just plain wrong.

Let's peel back the onion a little. The industry estimates that fraudulent returns and abusive returns combined represent around 6.5% of total returns. In other words 93.5% of returns are honest, legitimate, non-abusive. So for example, if I am doing a painting project at home and want to avoid multiple trips or interruptions, I might buy more rollers, masking tape and other supplies than I really ultimately need, knowing I will come back and return the extra, unopened items. In this case my return falls into the 93.5%. When I go to Home Depot and I look around at the return counter, my observations are consistent with this, the vast majority of returns I see around me look legit.

This is not to say the 6.5% is not a staggering number in real terms because it is, but it's the cost of doing business from the perspective of a company that does $108 billion in annual sales and is playing the long game. Which is to say sometimes you take it on the chin for a nickel in order to make a dollar.
For the home improvement sector, the average national rate of returns as a percent of overall sales is about 11%. So fraud and abuse represents 6.5% of 11%. Therefore if we're going to be specific, they are taking it on the chin for 7 tenths of 1 cent in order to achieve a dollar in sales. I'd take that deal.

I happen to think Home Depot is a phenomenal American success story. The company celebrated its 40th anniversary last year, has achieved a market cap of about $260 billion, and the two original founders became multi-billionaires along the way. Low/no-hassle returns has been a core piece of their formula. How much more sustainable can you get?

[Mark Bolton]

and the two original founders became multi-billionaires along the way

Capitalism at its core which I support. That said, no differnt than the walmart model, off the backs of maintaining a low wage workforce, crushing vendors and suppliers at any and every opportunity, patently turning their backs on their country of origin with regards to workforce and supply chain, and for me, by far the worst, is single handedly destroying the quality of goods in the home building/home repair industry on mass in lieu of personal profit. Anyone in the trade, any vendor, any supply house, will tell you the degradation in product quality to support those founders multi-billion dollar net worth has come at a horrific cost to the industry, the planet, and the consumer, across the board. Entire dishwashers are ripped out rather than repaired, faucets thrown away instead of repaired. Light fixtures changed numerous times over the course of short span homeownership due to rust, failure, and not because of changing tastes. The list is endless. And its all in the landfill, and its all re-purchased by the consumer 2, 3, 4, times but todays average consumer knows no better and the younger generations have no idea that you can even repair a faucet.

To their credit they have crossed the event horizon and are in clear air where the consumer today has never had the knowledge, or recollection, of a quality tool, light fixture, or appliance. They are completely accustomed to things not lasting, falling apart, falling short, and simply re-buying several times instead of once. They have changed the market to an extent that there are no longer many quality alternatives easily accessible for comparison. Its an ingenious business model. You "take it on the chin" long enough to eliminate all the competition and then you only offer the items to your customers that feed you the best margin.

Anyone in business is familiar with lost leaders. It happens every day even in my small world.

Your view at the return counter is far different than a lot I have seen. People unloading entire carts of material covered in dust, been poorly kept in their project, material that is pretty much valueless as the time it would take to clean it up and put it back on the rack would exceed its value instantly. If I am planning on returning something I guess I have some old world notion that it needs to be as pristine as it was the day I bought it so the retailer has a chance to resell it. If its been in my house, shop, truck, whatever, and is bing'd up, dusty, clearly used, I can not in good conscience expect to get my money back.

I guess my point is not whether or not its an acceptable loss to the big box "taking it on the chin". Its that they are spawning a consumer that is lazy, opportunistic, and pretty much downright selfish. A consumer that if they were treated in an identical manner would be incensed and railing against such behavior.

Its a sad state of affairs, but as you say, they have created the system, they have done the math, and the billionaires prove there is money to be made. The question to me is what is the global cost.

[Edwin Santos]

I guess my point is not whether or not its an acceptable loss to the big box "taking it on the chin". Its that they are spawning a consumer that is lazy, opportunistic, and pretty much downright selfish. A consumer that if they were treated in an identical manner would be incensed and railing against such behavior.

Its a sad state of affairs, but as you say, they have created the system, they have done the math, and the billionaires prove there is money to be made. The question to me is what is the global cost.

Alright, valid points above. But I wonder - and this is just speculation on my part - is the root cause the retailers and their no-hassle return policies spawning the selfish consumer? Or was the consumer already there, and already so pre-disposed, and the retailer just came up with a way to build these habits into their system and capitalize on it?

In my opinion, the deterioration in values, integrity and personal accountability that you reference is not created the the retailer. It starts at home and in childhood, and the root cause is parenting and lack thereof.
That's what's changed over time, and yes, it's a whole other subject so once again, we're off topic in the off topic forum.

[Mark Bolton]

is the root cause the retailers and their no-hassle return policies spawning the selfish consumer? Or was the consumer already there, and already so pre-disposed, and the retailer just came up with a way to build these habits into their system and capitalize on it?

I dont believe so but that is also delusional optimism on my part. I dont know if when I was young people didnt pull this crap because they were nicer, or it just wasnt an option, the retail policy didnt allow it, or the retailers just didnt stand for it. Who knows. Without a doubt the sheer access to cheap labor manufacturing has allowed big box retailers to eat a lot of loss at the expense of the planet, the consumer, and the countries manufacturing base.


In my opinion, the deterioration in values, integrity and personal accountability that you reference is not created the the retailer.

Its only created by the retailer in that globalization and raping, polluting, capitalizing on, other countries is now a much easier option. We have learned from those bad practices in this country yet even with our painful learning curve we now ship our business to countries that are not wise enough to learn from our horrid mistakes and are flushing plating materials and thousands of tons of waste down the rivers like we did in the industrial revolution. Again, one would hope the billionaires of HD and the like would not wish such a fate on their worst enemy but in the pursuit of the all mighty buck people will do anything.



It starts at home and in childhood, and the root cause is parenting and lack thereof.
That's what's changed over time,

You'll never get an argument from me there. Thats a war that's being waged by the few, and the grandparents and great grandparents at this point. In my guess its a whisper lost in the noise.


we're off topic in the off topic forum.

Off topic is off topic, the thread is old/reconstituted anyway.

[Frank Pratt]

I think this has been a really good thread. All the opinions presented, whether I agree with them or not, have provoked a lot of thought. And I love that it's gone off, off topic.

[lowell holmes]

I returned a new in box purchase to Lowes this morning and purchased a replacement. They cheerfully refunded my credit card.

[Edwin Santos]

I returned a new in box purchase to Lowes this morning and purchased a replacement. They cheerfully refunded my credit card.

You must have worked some of that infamous charm, you devil!

[lowell holmes]

It was a Lowes card. They take care of their regular customers.

[Darcy Warner]

I rarely return any left over stuff. I will eventually use it and it's not worth the effort gathering up and taking back 7 bucks worth of stuff.

[Ole Anderson]

I rarely return any left over stuff. I will eventually use it and it's not worth the effort gathering up and taking back 7 bucks worth of stuff. Unless I have a near term use for the stuff I didn't use, it goes back. Just me trying to stay organized and not being overwhelmed by stuff I don't need.

[Jim Becker]

Unless I have a near term use for the stuff I didn't use, it goes back. Just me trying to stay organized and not being overwhelmed by stuff I don't need.

Yea, I keep an HD bag on a hook near my shop door for odds-and-ends returns, but try to get leftovers from a project back to the store sooner, rather than later myself. It's a lot easier to return the odd-ball stuff these days because of the CC records in their system, unlike back when having a paper receipt pretty much was expected.

[Brian Elfert]

I just bought an open box deadbolt lock from an Ebay seller. I got it and things didn't go together quite right. I finally realized the thumb turn part had been replaced with a part that wasn't the right one. It even had paint on it. This is the type of scam customers pull with returns.

My guess is this was returned to a retailer and the Ebay seller buys returned goods and resells them. I don't blame the Ebay seller as it isn't easy to tell that the wrong part is in the box. They refunded my money and didn't make me return the item.