Used General 350 vs. Rockwell 1.5 HP Cabinet

[Aaron Mills]

Is a used 350 worth $1100 CDN vs. the $400-$700 CDN being asked for a Rockwell? There's only one General available, but 3 Rockwell's on the market. I would have considered dropping the cash for a new 650 (left tilt), but the used 350 or even one of the better Rockwells has me seriously reconsidering.

Now, the question of the hour is whether or not the General 350 is worth the extra cash over the Rockwells??

Thanks,

Aaron

[Don Baer]

Aaron,
I'd go with the General in a heart beat. Here is a link to a guy who was faced with a similar delema and why he bought the General.

http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/general350.shtml

[Joe Meazle]

Which ever is in the best condition is how I would go. We don't get many used Generals down here but the ones I have seen are very very nice. Would 1100 CD be aorud 800 USD? That is a sweet deal if it has a good fence. Still agood deal even if it does not.

Joe

[Donnie Raines]

I had a Rockwell saw....and that it was great. I can't imgaine that the General would be that much better...at least with the added cost taken into account.

As was stated, if the condition's are equal,I say pocket the cash and get the Rockwell.

[Dev Emch]

Arron...

Without any thought on the matter... Get the general in a heartbeat!

Some folks like left tilt. I personally dont care. I am comfortable either way. But I will say that I kinda like the older style general 350 better. There isnt much difference between a new 350 and an older 350 other than the older 350 has a removeable louver door and smaller, more conservative nampe plates.

So if you can get a good deal on the general 350, buy it. Just check it out and examin it as you would any used tool. As they say on TV... "If the ride is more fly.... than you must buy!".

[Aaron Mills]

If the General is 3 phase, would you still jump on the opportunity to have the General for roughly $800 USD?

[Greg Ladd]

Aaron,

For what it is worth...I purchased and restored a 1949 model Unisaw that I purchased at an auction. A few years later I decided to buy a new saw and went with the General 350.

I can say without any question that the General is heavier with much thicker trunnions and castings overall. After comparing the two saws side by side, I was pretty amazed of the difference in quality inside the cabinet, under the table itself.There are also some differences internally with some shrouding around the blade and the way the motor mounts.

I certainly would buy the General even if you had to change out a motor and switch. If this is a saw that you plan on keeping for the rest of your life. total cost difference would amount to a few dollars per year.

All that being said, there are many old Unisaws that people are thrilled with....

Greg

[Paul Canaris]

Having used both, it's the General (Canadian) hands down ;)

[Frank Pellow]

That's a great deal on the General 350 (aasuming that it is in good condition). If I had not already purchased a new General 650 earlier this year, I would be right in the queue behind you in case you pssed up on the offer.

[Jim Becker]

If the General is 3 phase, would you still jump on the opportunity to have the General for roughly $800 USD?

If it is 3-phase, you need to consider your costs to accomodate 3-phase with a converter or for changing out the motor as part of your decision. The machine is excellent, however.

[Dev Emch]

If its three phase, so much the better!:D

Personally, I am not a fan of the newer unisaws. The older unisaws esp. those made with the Rockwell name were very good saws. Many folks have these and love them. I have used them and they are great. Having said this, keep the following items in mind.

First of all, the general 350 and 650 saw is in my humble opinion the best of the unisaw footprint table saws with the exception of the oliver 232. But bear in mind that the mitre slot size and location of the slots is a quasi standard typical of the unisaw. The general is in the unisaw class because it has this layout. Cross cut sleds, angle sleds, tenon jigs, etc. all designed for the unisaw work on the general. This cannot be said about the oliver 232. Its mitre slots and locations are different.

The standard motor used in the unisaw was unique. Its mounting brackets were a special adaptation to the unisaw and you have to purchase a new unisaw specific motor for this saw. Now some folks have made bracket adapters for converting regulare frame motors for use with the unisaws. In fact, rumor has it that there is a unisaw on the drawing boards that will be made in china and will utilize a version of this bracket.

The general 350 has always utilized a standard industry motor frame mount. This means that I can adapt a number of different motors for use in the general. In fact, you will find general 350 saws with 3 and 5 HP motors and some motors will be leeson and some will be baldor and you may even find makes you have never heard of. This makes the general design much more versatile.

The best motors for use in a woodshop are three phase motors. Much simpler in construction and not prone to sawdust oil paste lock up. This is where bearing oil and sawdust drawn in through the cooling fan plug up the starter cutout switch and burn the motor out. You should pull the end bell on a single phase motor once a year or more to clean this gunk out if you have a single phase motor running in a high sawdust environment such as a table saw.

This saw is most likely a 3 HP saw. For the price of a new motor and starter, you can get into a phase converter. You can also build a phase converter from internet plans and they are very simple to build. I designed and built my first phase converter from junk salvaged off of ebay and it worked for quite a while before I upgraded it to run my shaper.

And for $800 dollars US, that is a pretty good deal for a general 350! Note that there are many more unisaws than general 350 saws. So it is harder to get you hands onto a general 350.

Best of luck...

[David Eisan]

Hello there,

I have a strange unnatural attachment to old Unisaws,

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=20693

Even though I know a new 350 is probably a better saw.

I am the sales manager for a large tool store in Ontario Canada and I sell 25:1 General 350's to Unisaws. I have been to the factory in Drummondville and seen how the saws are made, they are top notch. A General 350 will always be worth more than a Unisaw used due to there being that many fewer of them out there.

Buy the one that requires the least work to restore to new.

Read the thread, and the two referenced to see what you should look for when buying an old saw.

David.

[Aaron Mills]

Well, a couple of things happened with the cabinet saw search. Turns out that the few Rockwell saws that were true cabinet saws were already sold, meaning only old bench saws were available. Scratch the Rockwell Beaver from the possible list of saws.

But wait...after several days of phone tag I was finally able to get in touch with the seller and arrange a visit to see the saw. I had my reservations because it was 3 phase, but was willing to take the challenge of building a phase converter, especially if the price was right and the saw was in good condition.

I can't comment on whether or not it works, yet, since it wasn't wired up, but I got to do a good physical inspection and things look good right now. The saw has its original 3 HP Leeson, single phase motor and its original Biesemeyer fence system. I must comment on how heavy the fence system is. It was nearly enough to tip the saw off balance given the torque scenario. That said, the fence railings were attached to an extension table that had no leg supports, so they may not be true. I'll be checking that on my next visit, when we'll have it wired and ready to test cut.

It's been unused for four years, and its previous owner used it primarily for cutting concrete forms. The top needs a little buffing, and the motor cover is missing, as is the guard, but I can make do without those accessories.

Pretty glad I pursued the General despite its supposed 3 phase motor. Turns out 3 other guys didn't bother to check out the saw because it had a 3 phase motor. It very well could have been a 3 phase motor though since the saw was in an industrial park setting which was likely wired for 3 phase. I only hope that everything works out and I can soon call this baby mine!

Thanks,

Aaron

[Joe Meazle]

congrats on the saw. Sounds like you got a good fence too. Replacing the motor may be easier and chaeper than a phase converter. check with area motor repair shops. Goodluck

Joe

[Aaron Mills]

congrats on the saw. Sounds like you got a good fence too. Replacing the motor may be easier and chaeper than a phase converter. check with area motor repair shops. Goodluck

Joe

Just to clarify, the saw is actually single phase, not 3 phase. The seller was confused and assumed 220 hookup meant 3 phase.

[Dev Emch]

Boy, this is sounding more promising every day!:)

Note that a three phase mag starter arangement can be used to start up a single phase motor with no problems. You just cannot use a single phase setup to run a three phase motor. So you may have a three phase starter and the motor was swaped out. Not a problem! Many times, single phase versions of these tools are made by just using the three phase electricals with a single phase motor.

You may need to add a rip saw extension bench. These are best made by making them yourself as many SMCers have already done. Also, there is a good chance the rails are a tad out of alignment. So What! You can realign these when you install your rip bench extension.:D

I would be more concerned with the insides of the saw. Any cracked items? Have a look inside. You may need to clean a few areas out. Check for broken or damaged items. You may be able to use these to bargan.

As it stands, I would caution you on this deal! Consider yourself lucky that the others have not investigated this saw. Had this saw been in my neck of the woods, I would have to say with about 80 percent certainty that it would be gone and off the market and in my barn!:) From the sounds of it, it sounds like something I would be very interested in. So if your really serious, I would work at closing this deal as soon as possible if your really serious.

I would not worry about the motor cover. In as far as all the good things I have said about general, their covers are only so so. They make these from fibreglass. Being that this machine is so much like the unisaws, I would and I have personally already considered obtaining a cast iron goose egg cover and adapting it to the general. The goose egg was used for years by the unisaws. Right now, there is a fellow who is having these covers made in PA and selling them. They are cast iron reproductions and there is a good chance they would work on the general.:D

Let us know how things go.

[Aaron Mills]

Note that a three phase mag starter arangement can be used to start up a single phase motor with no problems. You just cannot use a single phase setup to run a three phase motor. So you may have a three phase starter and the motor was swaped out. Not a problem! Many times, single phase versions of these tools are made by just using the three phase electricals with a single phase motor.


The manufacturing plate on the machine lists it as a single phase machine and the motor on the inside confirmed that.


You may need to add a rip saw extension bench. These are best made by making them yourself as many SMCers have already done. Also, there is a good chance the rails are a tad out of alignment. So What! You can realign these when you install your rip bench extension.:D

Any threads or websites with some good pics of a rip saw extension bench to get ideas from?



I would be more concerned with the insides of the saw. Any cracked items? Have a look inside. You may need to clean a few areas out. Check for broken or damaged items. You may be able to use these to bargan.



Went over it quite closely yesterday, clearing off the sawdust to check everything, but I haven't been able to see it during the day time or in action, so once it's wired up, I'll be back to see it and go over with a much closer attention to detail. I'd like to check for any arbor runout, but I'm not sure how, so if anyone can help out with that, I'd appreciate it.



As it stands, I would caution you on this deal! Consider yourself lucky that the others have not investigated this saw. Had this saw been in my neck of the woods, I would have to say with about 80 percent certainty that it would be gone and off the market and in my barn!:) From the sounds of it, it sounds like something I would be very interested in. So if your really serious, I would work at closing this deal as soon as possible if your really serious.


I'm very anxious about having this saw snatched up by someone else and would have bought it already if I had a chance to see it cut wood, but as it stands I have to wait until the seller gets back to me and lets me know that he has it wired up and ready to view. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and may phone him later today to put in a deposit on the saw if it'll keep it from being sold.



I would not worry about the motor cover. In as far as all the good things I have said about general, their covers are only so so. They make these from fibreglass. Being that this machine is so much like the unisaws, I would and I have personally already considered obtaining a cast iron goose egg cover and adapting it to the general. The goose egg was used for years by the unisaws. Right now, there is a fellow who is having these covers made in PA and selling them. They are cast iron reproductions and there is a good chance they would work on the general.:D


I'm not particularly concerned about it myself, but am actually more curious about if the opening were the motor previously existed could be used to mount my a custom fabricated dust collection port. There's no existing port, so it would require some drilling if the dust collection were to be from above ground. Any thoughts on the pros/cons of using the motor cover mounting brackets to mount a custom DC port?

Thanks,

Aaron