Grizzly closing the Muncy PA store.

[Randy Red Bemont]

I just saw this on the Grizzly facebook page.

"Our Muncy PA location is closing and moving its operations to our newly expanded facility in Missouri. We will be posting special deals and details on our website homepage later today. All in-store purchases will be at a 10% discount and our demo machines will be 25% off."

Wow!

Red

[Peter Aeschliman]

I'm glad I live near their corporate headquarters! Although I suppose that could always move too. :)

[Matt Day]

Wow, bummer. I've only been there once but it was an impressive place.

[Harold Burrell]

What??? :eek:

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

[Scott DelPorte]

Thats too bad for us in the Northeast..

[Bill Space]

Shocked to hear that!

Positive might be that we Pennsylvanians will not have to pay sales tax on future orders?

Last two purchases I had shipped anyway...table saw and jointer...will miss you Grizzly, but a four hour drive one way is not done frequently anyway.

Bill

[Anthony Whitesell]

Not cool. Granted I have only been there once and that was on a strategically planned trip in order to get near enough to go. Otherwise I wouldn't have been within 3 hours of the facility. In the short time I was in Muncy, I was surprised such a large store was in such a low population area. I hope they reconsider the consolidation by perhaps relocating nearer a larger population center on the east coast.

[Wade Lippman]

That stinks!
I have never been there, but will be 10 minutes away a week before they close. Maybe they will be 80% on the dregs?

(naw, "stinks" just sounds lame)

[David C. Roseman]

Shocked to hear that!

Positive might be that we Pennsylvanians will not have to pay sales tax on future orders?
[snip]

Bill

Unfortunately, no. Still will be responsible for reporting and paying PA use tax, at same rate as sales tax. http://www.revenue.pa.gov/FormsandPublications/FormsforBusinesses/Documents/Sales-Use%20Tax/pa-1.pdf

[Jay Aubuchon]

That is deeply disappointing. The Muncy store is only 1 1/2 hours from me. And it is between me and my lumber source, Lewis Lumber. And close to the Rockler in Wiiliamsport. And, and, ...

I guess it isn't the end of the world for me, though. I've already picked up several large tools there, probably just about all I'll ever want.

[Jim Finn]

[QUOTE=Bill Space;2462581]Shocked to hear that!

".....Positive might be that we Pennsylvanians will not have to pay sales tax on future orders?....."
Sales taxes are now being charged on internet purchases.

[ian maybury]

As a European from a small market (Ireland) i'm just amazed that anybody can move enough machines to support the overhead represented by even a single location like the Missouri store which i took a look at just now - never mind three: https://www.grizzly.com/showrooms/mo

That said we forget over here just how large the US geography and market are, the three stores are over 1,000m apart from each other.

The stores seem to be admin centres as well, and presumably a large part of their trade is with distant customers rather than from local population centres. Could be the locations are designed to utilise easy access low cost real estate and labour, closeness to major routes etc etc as much as to be near to large population centres....

[Dan Masshardt]

I can't find it on their Facebook page. Wonder if they pulled it down?

[Harold Burrell]

I can't find it on their Facebook page. Wonder if they pulled it down?

Not the FB page, but info nonetheless...

https://www.grizzly.com/events/2015/09/PA-Moving-Sale

[Randy Red Bemont]

Here it is.

Red

http://cdn0.grizzly.com/events/2015/09/090115-Grizzly-Press-Release.pdf

[David C. Roseman]

".....Positive might be that we Pennsylvanians will not have to pay sales tax on future orders?....."
Sales taxes are now being charged on internet purchases.

If you're referring to PA's e-commerce sales tax initiative, it is my understanding that a "tax nexus" is still considered by the PA revenuers as necessary in order to require an out-of-state seller to collect sales tax at point of sale. That, as distinguished from the use tax, which is self-reporting by the in-state purchaser. Some out-of-state internet sellers are nonetheless voluntarily collecting and remitting sales tax at point of sale despite having no nexus, typically a physical presence in the state. In Grizzly's case, its release says it intends to maintain a call center in PA, and given the enormity of its Muncy warehouse and showroom facilities, it may have connections through real estate that will continue long beyond its pull-out. So my guess is that Grizzly may continue to collect PA sales tax for some time to come. I suspect the pull-out will be a big blow to the local economy, though.

[Erik Loza]

...i'm just amazed that anybody can move enough machines to support the overhead represented by even a single location...

Yep, that's it in a nutshell.

Erik

[J.R. Rutter]

~ $100,000,000 annual revenue helps. ; )

[Anthony Whitesell]

I posted before seeing this, but wasn't far off. "Being far from a metropolis adds many expenses that are no longer feasible for a remote location." I read that as 'Muncy, PA is too far away from the major trucking routes incurring additional expenses which have grown above and beyond what business can support". Unfortunately for us east coasters, it appears the decision was made to expand the Missouri facility rather than relocate on the east coast closer to the trucking/shipping lanes. It also appears this is happening quickly, as the last day of retail and shipping operations from Muncy is Oct 31, 2015.

[Rick Moyer]

Bummer. Only half hour away. Fortunately, I've already got most of what I needed before, although that bigger band saw won't be as accessible now.

[Randy Red Bemont]

Could be some great deals if anyone is local enough to drive there. I'm too far and don't need anything anyway. Good luck to those that get there.

Red

[Curt Harms]

I posted before seeing this, but wasn't far off. "Being far from a metropolis adds many expenses that are no longer feasible for a remote location." I read that as 'Muncy, PA is too far away from the major trucking routes incurring additional expenses which have grown above and beyond what business can support". Unfortunately for us east coasters, it appears the decision was made to expand the Missouri facility rather than relocate on the east coast closer to the trucking/shipping lanes. It also appears this is happening quickly, as the last day of retail and shipping operations from Muncy is Oct 31, 2015.

As I recall it's about 15 mi. N. of I-80 so that doesn't seem likely. I'm guessing Grizzly has looked at where the bulk of their sales occur and the Northeast ain't it so no benefit to a Northeast shipping facility. Grizzly is maintaining a call center according to the press release. I guess there'll be one more large empty complex in Pennsylvania.

[Roger Feeley]

I never understood the benefit of the Springfield, MO location. It's on I-44 but really, it's kind of off the beaten path. Maybe someone can explain to me the business case for Springfield (other than some sort of great tax deal).

Kansas City to the north is a major transportation hub and the nexus of I-70, I-35 and I-29. There's a place on the Kansas side called the Legends that has loads of testosterone. It has Minor League Baseball, Major League Soccer, Cabelas, Nebraska Furniture Mart and Schlitterbahn all within a mile or so. I always thought that a place like Grizzly or Rockler would do really well there.

[Dave Cav]

It's all about logistics and shipping costs. I suspect the walk in stores generate a minuscule amount of business compared with their mail order traffic. I have been to the Bellingham store numerous times and it's never that busy, and it's not open on Saturdays. That tells me that although the walk in traffic is nice, it's not what their business model is based on. Bellingham is also somewhat off the beaten path, but it is two miles from I-5 and about 100 miles from I-90, and close to some major east-west rail lines. Bellingham also has a deep water port, and is only about 100 miles from Seattle and 150 miles from Tacoma, both major west coast ports. Springfield is not that far from St. Louis and the Mississippi river, and it's possible that those machines are shipped via the Panama Canal and barged up the Mississippi river, but I imagine it's more likely they travel via container rail from the West Coast to Springfield. The logistics of bulk shipping to PA from Asia probably didn't work well given the amount of product they shipped, and Springfield is pretty centrally located from a geographic standpoint. I expect the lease was coming up on the PA location and they decided consolidation made more sense.

On a separate note, I was in the Bellingham store in mid-August, and a LOT of machines had "Out of Stock" tags on them. It seemed like it was concentrated on the metalworking machine tools (lathes/mills) but it seemed to be a much higher proportion than I'm used to seeing.

[Phillip Gregory]

As a European from a small market (Ireland) i'm just amazed that anybody can move enough machines to support the overhead represented by even a single location like the Missouri store which i took a look at just now - never mind three: https://www.grizzly.com/showrooms/mo

That said we forget over here just how large the US geography and market are, the three stores are over 1,000m apart from each other.

The stores seem to be admin centres as well, and presumably a large part of their trade is with distant customers rather than from local population centres. Could be the locations are designed to utilise easy access low cost real estate and labour, closeness to major routes etc etc as much as to be near to large population centres....

They do their shipping from these locations and mail-order is their business. Having three locations spread evenly throughout the country made a lot of sense. Maybe they found it was cheaper to ship from MO to the Northeast rather than have a facility there with redundant personnel, etc.


I never understood the benefit of the Springfield, MO location. It's on I-44 but really, it's kind of off the beaten path. Maybe someone can explain to me the business case for Springfield (other than some sort of great tax deal).

Kansas City to the north is a major transportation hub and the nexus of I-70, I-35 and I-29. There's a place on the Kansas side called the Legends that has loads of testosterone. It has Minor League Baseball, Major League Soccer, Cabelas, Nebraska Furniture Mart and Schlitterbahn all within a mile or so. I always thought that a place like Grizzly or Rockler would do really well there.

Springfield is far from being off the beaten path. It's along I-44 and I-49 (former US 71). I-44 is every bit as busy as I-70 and much busier than I-35 or I-29. I-49 in MO is at least as busy as I-35 in MO as it carries a bunch of traffic from KC to Springfield and points southward. I-49 is way busier than I-29. Hardly anybody goes on I-29 north of MCI (or really flies out of MCI in the first place :D). North of that is St. Joe, then 200 miles of nothing through northern MO and Iowa until you get to Omaha/Council Bluffs. There really is nothing up there, I always had to watch the fuel gauge closely particularly after the flood in 2011 that closed pretty well every little dinky gas station in Iowa along I-29.

[Rod Sheridan]

Bummer. Only half hour away. Fortunately, I've already got most of what I needed before, although that bigger band saw won't be as accessible now.

Rick, your sentence made me smile.

The saw would have come thousands of miles from China, yet the next 30 miles were a consideration.

It's amazing how far most of our purchases travel isn't it?

Regards, Rod.

P.S. Sorry to hear of the store closing, I wonder if many of the employees went to other locations?

[Curt Harms]

...........................................
P.S. Sorry to hear of the store closing, I wonder if many of the employees went to other locations?

The press release I printed out said they're going to keep a call center in PA. The technical support phone # was a PA. number - 570 something and it'd be smart to keep some people with experience that are familiar with common problems and solutions. I'm sure some people will be cut loose though, perhaps they don't want to relocate.

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks for the information Curt...............Regards, Rod.

[Rick Moyer]

Rick, your sentence made me smile.

The saw would have come thousands of miles from China, yet the next 30 miles were a consideration.

It's amazing how far most of our purchases travel isn't it?

Regards, Rod.

P.S. Sorry to hear of the store closing, I wonder if many of the employees went to other locations?
Glad to make you smile. The "30 miles" was a consideration because I would not have to pay freight, whereas now I will if I decide to purchase one down the road.

btw. I think I heard there were about 80 employees. Not sure if that number is accurate. Not a lot of available jobs around here, but I would doubt relocating would make sense for very many (cost of living vs. level of wage)

[Rod Sheridan]

Glad to make you smile. The "30 miles" was a consideration because I would not have to pay freight, whereas now I will if I decide to purchase one down the road.

btw. I think I heard there were about 80 employees. Not sure if that number is accurate. Not a lot of available jobs around here, but I would doubt relocating would make sense for very many (cost of living vs. level of wage)

Hi Rick, yes I assumed you meant the loss of convenience and shipping savings.

Sorry to hear about the employment prospects in your area.

I was at a BMW bike rally in the US Labour day weekend, the average age of riders was 59.5 years, and attendance was down again this year. Riding like woodworking doesn't seem to be affordable for younger people. (Or perhaps they aren't interested in it?)

Regards, Rod.

[Roger Feeley]

I guess I stand corrected. Thanks for the education.

[Tom Owad]

The press release I printed out said they're going to keep a call center in PA. The technical support phone # was a PA. number - 570 something and it'd be smart to keep some people with experience that are familiar with common problems and solutions. I'm sure some people will be cut loose though, perhaps they don't want to relocate.

What I heard today is that a call center of five people will remain, most of the management is moving to MO, and few to none of the ordinary employees are going.

[Tom Owad]

One other bit of information I wanted to share: I had the opportunity to talk to Shabir (son of founder Shiraz) at the Grizzly sale on Saturday. They're planning a new benchtop bandsaw for next year, that will feature upper/lower ball bearing blade guides, as well as other innovations. It sounds like it will be a very nice bandsaw.

[Curt Harms]

What I heard today is that a call center of five people will remain, most of the management is moving to MO, and few to none of the ordinary employees are going.

Keeping a facility open for 5 people? I wonder why? Do they have to maintain a presence for so many years to fulfil some agreement? I don't think it's a surprise that most workers are not relocating. I'd guess that aside from tech support most of the jobs in Muncy are ordinary office and warehouse jobs not worth relocating for.

[Tom Owad]

The call center won't be in the current facility; they'll just be renting office space. The impression I got was that they have some very experienced people with a lot of product knowledge, and didn't want to lose them.

[Tommy Parker]

I will be especially sad to see the store closed. I was a salesman on the showroom floor for three years and enjoyed it very much. Lots of good people have lost a job which will be hard to replace in this area. In addition to that if you have purchased machinery from Grizzly you've got to order new blades, sanding belts, etc. I lived very close to the store - within 10 miles and it was convenient to stop there and get what I needed. I know that this will impact many customers because even though "we are in the sticks" out here as one person said the area is saturated with woodworkers that paid thousands of dollars of hard earned money for Grizzly tools - I sold millions of dollars myself! We will all now be forced to shop elsewhere or put up with mail order hassles! You can call me a disgruntled customer - its ok because that's what I am.

[Phillip Gregory]

Tommy,

That is the exact same case as far as I can see in the Springfield, MO store. I don't work for Grizzly but I live relatively close to the showroom there and am one of those woodworkers that live "out in the sticks" in the rural Ozarks and yet have bought several pieces of large equipment as well as blades, belts, etc. from them and have been to the showroom multiple times. The staff they have working there is very good- much better than the staff at the big box stores. I wouldn't think it's any different in Muncy, PA vs. here so it will certainly be a big loss. Hopefully you and the rest of the staff are able to find decent employment elsewhere.

[Harold Burrell]

I will be especially sad to see the store closed. I was a salesman on the showroom floor for three years and enjoyed it very much. Lots of good people have lost a job which will be hard to replace in this area. In addition to that if you have purchased machinery from Grizzly you've got to order new blades, sanding belts, etc. I lived very close to the store - within 10 miles and it was convenient to stop there and get what I needed. I know that this will impact many customers because even though "we are in the sticks" out here as one person said the area is saturated with woodworkers that paid thousands of dollars of hard earned money for Grizzly tools - I sold millions of dollars myself! We will all now be forced to shop elsewhere or put up with mail order hassles! You can call me a disgruntled customer - its ok because that's what I am.

If you worked at the Muncy store, then we have probably met. One thing that I will miss as much as anything will be the good folks that worked there at the store. I always enjoyed going in there, even if I had nothing that I needed...and I was always impressed by the knowledgeability and friendliness of the staff.

[Michael Yadfar]

I never knew about this until today when I got my Grizzly catalogue, opened it up, didn't see the Muncy located listed, so I googled and found this. What a bummer! I drove up there last year to buy a 15" planer and a 14" bandsaw. It was a three hour drive, but sure beat the freight charge regardless. I also had to drive my planer back about 8 months ago to get fixed, and the customer service was great. Luckily I don't need any more power tools, just eventually upgrades in the somewhat distant future. That place was huge and relatively new, still shocks me!

BTW, I read an article saying 70 employees were laid off, and were given almost no notice. It's a shame because that area really is in the middle of nowhere