Kapex Dust Collection

[Dan Case LR]

I'm considering upgrading my miter saw to a Kapex. The primary driver behind the change is the need for extreme accuracy and repeatability for compound miters used in segmented turning. This will be a fixed in-shop miter station with no mobile applications. I have an existing central dust collector (Oneida V3000 Resin-body cyclone) with 7" mains and 6" drops, with an existing drop reduced to 4" for a Dewalt DW-715 using a "big gulp" hood mounted to the back of the saw.

I have in mind building a stand with an integrated dust hood and the Kapex dust port connected to a plenum in that hood with the shortest-possible length of 36mm hose. The hose catches what it can, and the hood catches the rest.

Kapex owners, do you see any problem with this idea?

I know the Festool answer is a CT-26 extractor that sells for just under half the price of the saw. I have no compulsion to go that way when I have a DC drop next to the saw--and my idea should catch nearly 100% of the dust.

Thoughts, anyone?

D.

[Steve Wilde]

Dan,
I have pretty much the same setup as you, a kapex and a V3000. I was thinking of doing the same. I was going to add a drop for my kapex with a hood to collect the extra dust that the hose doesn't collect. I was just thinking of tapping off the drop for the hose and then just open in the hood.
Steve

[Jim Dwight]

Dan,

I don't own a Kapex but have a couple thoughts. I would look over at the Festool Owners Group (FOG) for information if you haven't already. Kapex's get more negative comments than most Festools. They also get lots of positive ones.

I don't see why your idea won't work but the Kapex has a little soft plastic blade shroud or whatever it is called to help a shop vacuum get most of the dust. I never had a really good DC and don't have mine hooked up right now but I never got the velocity from mine that my shop vacuum has. If you can get the air moving through the 35mm hose that a shop vacuum does, this should work very well. At worst it seems like it would work like other CMSs where the hood has to get most of the dust. If you want the Kapex for accuracy more than dust control, this makes sense to me.

You don't need a Festool extractor if you have a shop vacuum. I'm sure they are much nicer but they don't do anything other vacuum don't do. I use a Bosch 5m hose on my Rigid shop vacuum (Hepa filter)/DD combination and also an aftermarket trigger switch to turn it on with the tool and have, I think, better functionality than even a Fein or Festool shop vacuum (due to the cyclone and easier disposal). It's all on a little plywood cart I adapted from a Woodsmith plan. You might want to try the shop vacuum, if you have one, to see how it works alone.

Another suggestion is to consider the Paulk workstation for the Kapex. His is portable but the basic idea of a two layer top with the ability to clamp stops and jigs to it is attractive to me - to the point I'm planning to do it in my shop.

[Dan Case LR]

Another suggestion is to consider the Paulk workstation for the Kapex. His is portable but the basic idea of a two layer top with the ability to clamp stops and jigs to it is attractive to me - to the point I'm planning to do it in my shop.

I don't think I've seen that yet. Do you have a like where I can get some design details?

Thanks!

D.

[Kent Adams]

I'd recommend a sled such as Incra's 5000 for making accurate cuts for segmented turning. It's ability to accurately dial in repeated cuts I believe is far beyond the Kapex and faster imho. I love my Festools, but a precision miter sled that can dial in to a 10th of a thousand is likely far better than a miter saw for this application. I make segmented wood turnings and I don't think the 5000 can be beat. Of course, if you are doing segmented turnings for something like a pen, pepper grinder etc., I don't think it matters as much. But for something like a segmented bowl, the 5000 is a great tool.

I recently purchased a Kapex, but I wouldn't use it to make a segmented bowl. The sled is extremely accurate and very fast.

[mreza Salav]

I have done a bunch of segmented turnings and I think a sled with setup jigs is the best way to go. No miter saw is as accurate even Kapex (and I have used it).
BTW, Kapex has too many plastic parts that break far too easily and often. My finish carpenter had two Kapex and was using one as a quick replacement part supplier to get going while ordering parts. It didn't perform better than my Milwaukee when I checked them side-by-side.

[peter gagliardi]

If your going festool, two things to know for good dust collection.
1. They make 3 sizes of hose, you want the middle size one , that goes over, not in the dust outlet on the saw.
2. Proper cutting technique goes a loooong way to maximum dust pickup. You want to bring the saw head toward you as far as necessary to clear the piece, then drop the saw into the cut, and push it back towards the fence. This will probably more than double the effective dust pickup, so it's important.

[Kent Adams]

If your going festool, two things to know for good dust collection.
1. They make 3 sizes of hose, you want the middle size one , that goes over, not in the dust outlet on the saw.
2. Proper cutting technique goes a loooong way to maximum dust pickup. You want to bring the saw head toward you as far as necessary to clear the piece, then drop the saw into the cut, and push it back towards the fence. This will probably more than double the effective dust pickup, so it's important.

I can concur this is exactly what you want to do, especially #2 and that goes for any miter saw, not just Festool.

[Wade Lippman]

I use a Dyson vacuum with a Dust Deputy on my kapex, with a hose that goes over the tube. Probably 85% effective. (compared to when I have the wrong blastgate open and get no dust collection).

I don't see why your scheme wouldn't work, maybe even better than mine; but I haven't found it necessary.

[Greg R Bradley]

Kapex strong points are light weight, easy portability, great accuracy for the weight, great dust collection for a mobile saw, etc.

Your first requirement tells you not to bother buying a Kapex. Wrong use of a nice saw, which is a bit overpriced.

No miter saw collects dust well when hooked up to a dust collection system. The high volume, low vacuum pressure doesn't work with those systems. They need high vacuum pressure and can live with the lower volume. Use a decent shop vac, any good vac, and a large hose, preferably short. If its fixed in your shop, hook the dust collection to a dust hood behind the saw.

[Dan Case LR]

I'd recommend a sled such as Incra's 5000 for making accurate cuts for segmented turning. It's ability to accurately dial in repeated cuts I believe is far beyond the Kapex and faster imho. I love my Festools, but a precision miter sled that can dial in to a 10th of a thousand is likely far better than a miter saw for this application. I make segmented wood turnings and I don't think the 5000 can be beat. Of course, if you are doing segmented turnings for something like a pen, pepper grinder etc., I don't think it matters as much. But for something like a segmented bowl, the 5000 is a great tool.

I recently purchased a Kapex, but I wouldn't use it to make a segmented bowl. The sled is extremely accurate and very fast.

I've used a sled before, and that method works well, particularly for stacked rings. For compound cuts (staves, for example), I find it quicker and easier to use a good miter saw (talking fairly short staves here--around 4". Longer staves are a different matter entirely). Regardless of how I cut them, the fine-tuning is done on a precision sanding jig. I used to groan when I heard people talk about using sanding jigs for segmented work, but a week with Curt Theobald about a year ago made me a believer.

That said, a couple weeks ago at SWAT 2015 Malcolm Tibbets (who literally wrote the book on segmented turning) said he no longer uses the segment sanding jigs described in his book. He cuts all of his segments on a Kapex and goes right from saw to glue-up.

Like most things, there's more than one "right way" to cut pieces for segmented turning.

D.

[Erik Christensen]

I have a kapex hooked up to a pretty much dedicated shop vac. I agree with the others - it seems to get 85-95% - a lot better than the typical miter saw that gets maybe half that at best. I also have a 12" delta RAS with the DC you were proposing - a 6" pipe to a backstop collector with a flex hose to the RAS guard - it works even better than the Kapex & shop vac - gets maybe 99%. That works for the RAS which I use as a production tool - set it up, turn it on and cut a lot of wood.

My use of a miter saw is much more intermittent - I have thought of hooking up the Kapex to the central DC but every time decided not to as i don't want to cycle the DC system that frequently nor leave it running for extended periods of time.

If you use your Kapex as a production tool you might be happy with the DC connection you propose - that is not how I use mine.

[Greg R Bradley]

I actually tried hooking up a Kapex & Makita 1214 sliding Miter Saws plus Dewalt 10" & Rigid 12" CMS to a dust collection system that also had a hood hooked up to the dust collection system. In each case the dust collection hooked up to the vac port made little difference. It helped the most on the two CMS saws that had a large port directly behind the blade that didn't slide. Added the shop vac and an iVac controller and that helped quite a bit except on the Makita 1214, which was still hopeless.

The vac hooked up to the saw dust port was the big collector. The dust hood with the big air volume going to the DC helped with the rest of the dust not picked up by the vac.

[Don Kondra]

Remove the little dust port on the saw and build a hood for a central dust collection :)

320648

Cheers, Don

[Kent Adams]

"That said, a couple weeks ago at SWAT 2015 Malcolm Tibbets (who literally wrote the book on segmented turning) said he no longer uses the segment sanding jigs described in his book. He cuts all of his segments on a Kapex and goes right from saw to glue-up. " That's curious because it doesn't make any sense. I have the Kapex and it isn't anymore accurate than any other miter saw after squaring. The Kapex has a lot of neat features I like, but for this application....


It sure isn't as accurate as a good sled for segmented cuttings. Did he mention an endrosement? I love my Kapex, but saying its more accurate than an accurate sled beggers belief.

[Jim Dwight]

Here's a link to Ron Paulk's "Ultimate Miter Stand" youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGZPubkww-E

He has a website where you can order plans. They are pretty inexpensive.

[guy knight]

nothing special about the kapex over the other top saws when it comes to accuracy i just bought the dewalt 780 to replace my kapex dead on and holds it same with my non dewalt double compound chopsaw

[Don Kondra]

Hi Dan,

For what you want to do, your existing saw may be sufficient to the task. Given you have a good blade on it, zero clearance fence and a bed with hold downs.

It could be argued that a double bevel, sliding saw may not necessarily give you a more accurate cut on the size of material you are using, flex in the rods, etc.

Having said that, I do prefer using my Dewalt 780 (half the price of a Kapex) over my table saw, just personal preference but the key to both methods is using hold downs.

For extreme accuracy, a touch up on a disc sander works for me.

Dust collection wise, you can't beat a dedicated hood on a SCMS..


https://youtu.be/jQWSlUTz88k

Cheers, Don

[Al Bacon]

I don't think I've seen that yet. Do you have a like where I can get some design details?

Thanks!

D.

Here is the vedio of Ron Paulk's miter stand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGZPubkww-E

Al

Sorry, didn't see page 2 and this answer

[Dan Case LR]

It sure isn't as accurate as a good sled for segmented cuttings. Did he mention an endrosement? I love my Kapex, but saying its more accurate than an accurate sled beggers belief.

Nobody said it was more accurate. He prefers using a miter saw. With his previous saw, he had to sand segments before gluing. With the Kapex, they come from the saw ready-to-glue. His experience, YMMV.

As a professional segmenter, his time is money. He finds the miter saw faster for much of his work, and the Kapex even faster. He also uses table saw sleds in some cases and told the group to use what they like.

BTW, he also disclosed that Festool gave him a Kapex, but if it died tomorrow he'd buy one to replace it.

D.