How to REMOVE this leg?

[Allan Speers]

I am refinishing a small table that has a tripod base. I want to get the legs off, so as to re-glue them tighter to the center column than they were originally. (There were originally small gaps.)

I can't get two of the legs off to save my life. I need some suggestions.

-----------

The Details:

Here are pics of the patient:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31826742/Table%20Legs%20-%201%20%20%20.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31826742/Table%20Legs%20-%202%20%20%20.jpg


One leg had one of its 2 dowels broken, and I was able to remove it quite easily by heating it with a hair dryer & twisting.

However, the other two legs are holding on for dear life. I heated one for maybe five full minutes, and then puled and rocked it with all my might, but you can see how little it moved. I can't really put a screwdriver in-between the two pieces for leverage, as that would likely damage the wood.

Ughh.


Any ideas?

[Scott Brandstetter]

It's a bit hard to tell from the pic's but what about building a sled and running them through the band saw. Once apart, the drill out the plugs and replace for a tight fit.

[Allan Speers]

Scott, that's a pretty good idea!

Sadly, I don't own a drill press. I can't imagine doing that by hand, and not destroying the piece. Even WITH a DP, that would be a tricky maneuver, though definitely possible.

I'm now thinking maybe I could put plastic tie-straps through the opening, then use those somehow in conjunction with a spreader-clamp. Hmm ....

[Robert Engel]

What Scott said except I would just use a handsaw and clean up both surfaces with a block plane.
Rather than a screw driver, you could try a heavy chisel from the bottom using wedge effect just to open a gap to get a saw in.
If you don't want to use your good chisels, just get a cheap one they are heavier anyway.

The failure with those things is the dowels and/or the glue, so once you get it apart, the question is re-dowel and glue or do something else?

You could re-dowel it and use epoxy, but I would put a screw through the top part of the leg into the pedestal shaft to counteract the lever forces.
Then counter sink and plug. Yeah, you'll see the plug but at least you know it won't come apart again.

I recently watched Andrew Pitts has a video on a similar repair here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-et0CnHFG0).

[Bill Ryall]

I've done similar with a small saw like this:

http://s7g3.scene7.com/is/image/ae235/21885_P?$p$
Slip it into the gap, and clean things up with a block plane and sandpaper. Drill for new dowels upon reassembly.

That particular saw is about $14 from the local [chain home improvement store]. Pull saw with an ultra thin flexible blade. Very handy to have around the shop.

[glenn bradley]

Bill R's idea is the first thing that came to mind. That maneuver is just the place for a thin kerf handsaw. Since you are doing all the legs, the small dimensional change will probably go unnoticed if you can refrain from telling everyone about it ;-)

[Prashun Patel]

I too would use a flush cut saw in the kerf, then drill new dowel holes.

How were you planning to re-attach them? If you are planning to use dowels, then drilling the round post will be tricky without a good jig; even the commercially available ones will have a tough time, since they're designed to work on flat stock.

[lowell holmes]

I too would use a flush cut saw in the kerf, then drill new dowel holes.

How were you planning to re-attach them? If you are planning to use dowels, then drilling the round post will be tricky without a good jig; even the commercially available ones will have a tough time, since they're designed to work on flat stock.

The Lee Valley flush cut saw would be ideal for the task. Then pare the results with a very sharp bench chisel.

[Joe Bradshaw]

Allan, you could try steam and the use of the plastic tie straps to put some pulling force on the joint.
Joe

[Rich Engelhardt]

Soak it with vinegar before trying anything else.

Vinegar can soften some PVA glues.

[Bill White]

Any idea as to what glue was used? Hide glue? How old is the table?
Ammonia on hide glue will soften and release.
Bill

[Yonak Hawkins]

Allan, have you tried putting the leg in a vice and using an old chisel to pry up, using the vice top to leverage against and the point of the chisel inside the joint ? ..Maybe use some of the glue loosening ideas previously mentioned in combination ?

[mike holden]

Good heavens! all these destructive methods. apply heat, while using a pair of wooden wedges one from each side and tap them in as the glue softens.
Simple.
Mike

[Allan Speers]

Great ideas, guys, thanks !


I'm going to try Mike Holden's idea first, using wooden clamps and then spreading THOSE.

Then I'll go down the list, with cutting the legs off as a last resort.

[Allan Speers]

Soak it with vinegar before trying anything else.
Vinegar can soften some PVA glues.


Any idea as to what glue was used? Hide glue? How old is the table?
Ammonia on hide glue will soften and release.
Bill

Can either of these damage the surface of the wood? How long of a soak is safe? (or should I use an eye dropper and just get a little bit into the joint itself?

Also, is there a way to determine if it's hide glue, vs PVA?

[Randy Red Bemont]

I've done the vinegar method many times and it worked like a charm. Same setup as you with the doweled legs. It did not damage the finish and the dowels did come out. I cleaned it all up afterwards, let it dry well and re-glued. Happy customer.

Red

[Peter Aeschliman]

Good heavens! all these destructive methods. apply heat, while using a pair of wooden wedges one from each side and tap them in as the glue softens.
Simple.
Mike

Seconded. I would use soft wood wedges to try and minimize marring. Sounds like vinegar might be a viable option in lieu of a heat gun- I've never tried that trick myself.

[Greg Hines, MD]

I would go ahead and cut off the two exposed dowels and redrill them as you would anyway, while the other legs are there to stabilize the piece, before you go any further.

Doc

[Rich Engelhardt]

Vinegar is 99% safe.
I hate to say 100% because you never know.
Ammonia can damage some varnishes & will attack shellac and some NC lacquers as well as waterbornes.

[Allan Speers]

I've done the vinegar method many times and it worked like a charm. Same setup as you with the doweled legs. It did not damage the finish and the dowels did come out. I cleaned it all up afterwards, let it dry well and re-glued. Happy customer.



Vinegar is 99% safe.
I hate to say 100% because you never know.
Ammonia can damage some varnishes & will attack shellac and some NC lacquers as well as waterbornes.


Thanks for this !

[David C. Roseman]

Allan, if you end up having to cut and drill out the dowels after all, you don't need a drill press to do it. Pare or sand the exposed ends of the dowels flush, then mark the centers carefully (ideally with a sharp awl, perhaps followed by a spring-loaded center punch). Then just use a hand drill, starting with a 1/16" twist bit, to drill well into the dowels, followed by increasingly larger bits. An inexpensive set of brad-point bits would also be good to avoid wandering, but it really shouldn't be necessary.

[Clint Baxter]

If you do cut off those dowels, and/or legs, you don't need a drill press to re-drill your dowel holes. Use one of these, http://www.biggatortools.com/products.html with your hand drill. Just clamp it in place and drill nice straight holes in round or flat stock.

Clint

[Alan Marchbanks]

Looks like you might have enough room to try two or three pair of opposing wedges driven from opposite sides.