Track saw vs. track saw systems

[Michael Cole]

Just bought my Domino and can cross that off the list. Now to research my next purchase, a track saw or , for lack of better name, a track saw "system" such as the EZ Smart or True-Trac. Don't really have the room to rip full size plywood in my little shop so now do it in an open bay with my DeWalt cordless saw (which I like, especially the blade side) and a clamped straight edge. It works okay, but would eventually like something better. For those of you with a track saw or other tell me your experiences. Would you purchase the same system again? Do you like it? Etc?

[Michelle Rich]

I have researched the EZ and it is cheaper than Festool , but I do question using a 75.00+- circular saw to get as good results as the festool saw. You generally get what you pay for in tools. But I have to admit , if I had seen the EZ system when I bought my festool, I'd have been hard pressed to justify the festool .

[George Bokros]

I have the EZSmart system. I mounted my old Craftsman 7 1/4 saw with a $20 Freud 60 tooth blade and it does a fine job of cutting ply. Th blade is thin, like only 1/16" kerf. I am satisfied with the system and would buy again. I do not need the plunge feature of the more expensive systems. The track is heavy and when I join two sections for ripping a sheet of ply I find I have no issues. I think it is because of the three piece joining system.

[Cary Falk]

I got the DeWalt saw and track for $310. My friend has the Makita. They both work fine. I have never used a Festool track saw.

[Reinis Kanders]

EZsmart is all you need if you can cut outside or in the garage. Festools biggest advantage is probably integrated dust collection. Ezsmart edge guide is really nice and easy, no need for any tracks to quickly dimension plywood.
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=73301&cat=51&ap=1

[shane lyall]

I bought a TS 75 because I also use it to straightline rough lumber as well as sheet goods. The ts55 can do any sheet goods and is less expensive but will struggle with anything over 8/4 IMO. Yes, Festool is great with dust collection BUT, I don't even use it on the tracksaw. With the rubber piece on the track, and the splinterguard on the saw, I cut plywood with no tearout. I do this for a living so I feel the expense of the Festool was justified. Had I been a hobby woodworker, I'm not sure.

If you veneer over plywood anyway, a good circ saw and a straightedge will do the same job. If tearout matters, I'd buy the Festool.

[Brian Hood]

~8 years ago got the EZ system to install but my saw wasn't compatible with it so ended up buying the Festool saw that came with a 40" track. The two systems are somewhat compatible so I use the EZ track with the Festool saw and Festool router (which has a guide that runs on the track).

My power tools seem to last forever and there is some extra, sometimes a lot of extra pleasure and joy in using a really well crafted and designed tool. The Festool ATF55 I use is one of those tools, it quieter, smoother, lots less dust, feels better, looks better. For me the extra costs spread over the years I'll own it was worth whatever that cost was, which I can't even remember now.

[Mike Henderson]

I bought the Festool TS-55 and have been very satisfied. No experience with the EZ system.

Mike

[Jim Dwight]

The issue I would have with the systems that use a circular saw is the circular saw. I used one (a Milwaukee) for decades but despite trying multiple and finer toothed blades, the cut quality was never the same as my DeWalt track saw. Dust collection is also non-existant on my Milwaukee and very good on my DeWalt. The edge guide of my home made guides used with the Milwaukee would always get chewed up with use. The DeWalt doesn't. I think it's a difference in the arbor bearings. Loosing the edge lining up with the cut eliminates the ability to lay the guide on the cut marks and make the cut. That's a key feature of the track saw.

I like my DeWalt and would buy it again. Other ones to consider are the Makita and possibly the Grizzly and Triton. I've seen one favorable review on the Triton, it may be up there with the DeWalt and Makita. The main advantage of the Festool is the accessories and the integration. I had to make my own parallel guides for the DeWalt, there are at least 4 makers of such guides for the Festool. DeWalt makes a router guide for their tracks but I don't think any of the other manufacturers do (except Festool). For a hobbiest, I think it is totally rational to spend roughly half the Festool price and spend a little time and money making the jigs you need. If you are making money with your tools and making jigs takes away from your income, it is probably worthwhile just to get a Festool. A hobbiest with the cash and/or wanting the integration could also make a rational decision to get the Festool. But the reviews I've seen suggest the Makita and DeWalt are right up there with the Festool in cut quality and dust extraction ad capability. The Grizzly needs a better blade and probably a different plunge spring. There is no long track for it so you have to join tracks (which many do anyway). I think it's a solid notch down from the others in fit/finish and possibly in capability. But it is another solid notch down on price too. You could probably get the Grizzly for less than the tracks you use with a circular saw. I would want the Grizzly any day versus a circular saw on a nice track.

Festool tools all have cases with the same cross section that can be fastened together for transportation. They all have removable power cords that are interchangeable. The tool cases can be stacked on the shop vacuums (which have wheels) for transportation. Most of the Festool tools have industry leading dust collection. That kind of stuff is what I'm referring to as integration. I think it, again, is more important for people who use their tools to make a living. Mine mostly stay in the shop.

[David Hawxhurst]

i have the ez smart system since 2008 it works great. they use to have a dust collection mod, i have it and it works pretty good. it would work better if the side of the saw was covered like the festool or dewalt. i played around with the idea and placed a piece of card board over the opening next to the blade, it greatly increased the dust collection. ez smart maybe have the advantage as far as accessories go (to include some router stuff). with the ez smart you will not be able to cut the max depth of the saw because of the track, festool has factored that in with their system. i use a makatia 7 1/4" and on the track it is not capable of cutting 8/4 lumber in a single pass. guess i could remedy this buy getting a bigger saw and new mounting plate, but thats not what i use the track system for. i once saw a 16" circular saw on the ez smart track system. just about any saw will work with the ez smart while festool only gives you a choice of two.

[Michael Cole]

Thanks for the responses so far! Keep them coming!

[Michael Cole]

I see that Rockler has the Triton on sale for $279 but no track. Haven't read as much about it as the others, but the price is attractive. Don't know how long that price is in effect though.

[John Schweikert]

Personally I would say go for the Makita track saw. Amazon has it with 55 inch rail for $414 with prime shipping. It has the second most powerful motor (1800w) of any of the track saws mentioned behind the Festool TS75 (which I own).

That Triton will need a rail, Rockler charges shipping, so you haven't really saved much money for a less powerful saw.

[Michael Cole]

I just looked up the Grizzly and for $300 or so you can have the saw, 2 55" tracks and the clamps. Doesn't get great reviews, but price is good. Would like to hear from users of it. Are other blades available?

[Kent A Bathurst]

I have to ask: What problems are you having with your current setup? What is it failing to do that you need it to do?

I "get" the whole track saw schtick - I use a mickey-mouse version on occasion for breakdown, and I helped a friend assemble a system for ply - shelf units, etc: Saw Boss, 1/4" hardboard, aluminum bar stock for guide.

But the "official" systems -- still scratching my head.

[Cary Falk]

Rockler free shipping code "5A008"

[Victor Robinson]

If you think you might ever purchase a Festool router, would just make sense to go with Festool's rail and saw.

I have had a TS55 for a few years now and am very happy with it. The fact you can get chip free cuts on both sides of your cut on something like melamine or crosscutting expensive plywood is nice...you won't get that with a circ saw and guide/EZ, unless you tape your cut lines and even then who knows. Not sure about Dewalt/Makita/Triton/Grizzly and what they have implemented to combat chip-out on both sides.

Festool's warranty and service are quite excellent.

[David Hawxhurst]

If you think you might ever purchase a Festool router, would just make sense to go with Festool's rail and saw.

I have had a TS55 for a few years now and am very happy with it. The fact you can get chip free cuts on both sides of your cut on something like melamine or crosscutting expensive plywood is nice...you won't get that with a circ saw and guide/EZ, unless you tape your cut lines and even then who knows. Not sure about Dewalt/Makita/Triton/Grizzly and what they have implemented to combat chip-out on both sides.

Festool's warranty and service are quite excellent.

you get chip free cuts with the ez smart as well. the have a replaceable strip similar to festool, which is what gives you the nice chip free cuts. ez smart even has router bases. you could even mount a festool router to it.

[Kent A Bathurst]

.... you could even mount a festool router to it.......

Heretic.....

[Mike Cutler]

Michael

I have both, Festool, and EZ guide rails.While similar, simply looking at bottom line is a disservice to both.

If it's depth of cut you need, then Festool comes out ahead for depth of cut versus cost. The baseplate on the EZ system subtracts about 11/16 Th's of an inch from the saw blade. To get the same depth of cut as the Festool, you need a bigger saw, and then you start to move towards Festool's in price. 10 and 12 inch circular saws aren't cheap. My 7 1/4" Makita, on an EZ rail does not have enough depth of cut to go through store bought 2x lumber. I have to use my Milwaukee 8 1/2" worms rive with it to cut 2x lumber.
If you know that you will only ever cut sheets of plywood, the EZ System will shine for you. There is no difference in the cut quality of my ancient Makita, with a good blade, and my TS75 with Festool's plywood blade. I am just as accurate with my EZ System, as my Festool.
Depth of cut and dust collection are the differences.

[Frank Martin]

I have had a Festool for about 12 years and would do the same if I were to do it again. Great dust collection, excellent accuracy. System approach to use the track for other things, e.g., 32mm holes, I think better overall than anything else. Again, just my opinion.

[Jim Dwight]

The Grizzly uses the same blades as the others. I'm going to try a Oshlun but it would be safer to get a Freud or DeWalt or Festool. If you want reviews, all you have to do is google something like "Grizzly track saw review". They are mixed.

[Greg Hines, MD]

I have the Grizzly saw and track, have had it for a few weeks and used it last weekend on a project, and I like it. So far, I have not needed two tracks, and, frankly, would like to get a shorter track, but they do not seem to make one. I have never used the Festool, but I do have some of their track clamps, which are better than the Grizzly clamps.

Doc

[Chris Parks]

I have used both a home made saw guide and a Festool track saw a lot for breaking down large sheets. There is zero advantage in using the Festool for simply breaking down sheets and I would not waste a lot of money buying any track system just for that. Both the home made and the Festool are used the same, make the mark, put down the guide on the mark and cut.

[Allan Speers]

you get chip free cuts with the ez smart as well. the have a replaceable strip similar to festool, which is what gives you the nice chip free cuts. ez smart even has router bases. you could even mount a festool router to it.

This.

I have used both systems a lot, as I own a deluxe EZ system, and my neighbor friend has all the Festool stuff (He's a contractor.) I VASTLY prefer the EZ system, due to a few factors:

The rail is very stiff. This can be very helpful with certain tasks.

The basic smart table uses standoffs, which let you get underneath your stock for adjustments. (and also gives a place to place tools, pencils, etc.)

The clamps (several types) are a dream to use.

The biggest drawback of the EZ system is that you lose an additional 1/2" or so of cut-depth, but I recently got the 10-1/4" Makita 5104, and with a "Moduni" base I can cut 8/4 stock at 45 degrees, so no more worries. I WAS going to get the Festool saw, which is excellent, but one can make any saw similarly dust-free with a small amount of work, and I figured out how to make my own riving knife. It would be nice to have the plunge feature, but since I also have the Eurekazone deluxe "EZ-ONE" table, I can plunge-cut using it's trapezoid rail lifter.

As to the OP's original question, both EZ and Festool make fantastic extended systems. At a minimum, having a roter attached to the rail is a dream. It doesn't completely replace a router table, but for the jobs this does cover, it does them better & safer than any other way. I especially like that I can rout in the "wrong" direction, which gives a better finish, because the bit can't pull away from the stock.

As for going further than that, i.e. building a deluxe table (such as the EZ-ONE) and even retiring your table saw, well, that's a tough call. I did it, selling my Unisaw, but there are some negatives to this. The primary problem is that one is then stuck with a saw that is somewhat underpowered for thick, hard stock.
I have an idea to try to modify a 2-3 HP RAS head, to fit on an EZ base. If I ever get around to it, that should be one heckuva' system. Until then, I will find myself sometimes wishing I still had that Uni. (But I'm sure glad to have freed up that space in my shop.)

[George Bokros]

If you get an 8 /14" circ saw you will gain enough with the EZSmart system to cut 1 1/2 inch stock, drawback is blade selection in the 8 1/4" size. I believe the DeWalt DWE575SB 7 1/4" has a cut capacity of 2 9/16 at 90*. Subtracting the 11/16 you loose for the EZSmart base and track you are at 1 7/8 so you can easily cut through 2 sheets of 3/4" ply if you need to.

[Jim Dwight]

I think the best track clamps are the DeWalt. Many Festool owners agree. They are just special quick acting clamps. So they are limited in clamping force but it is plenty with the soft bottom on the track and they are easy to operate with one hand.

While a track saw can be used to break down sheet goods (when you intend to use the table saw to cut to final dimensions) I certainly wouldn't get a Festool to do that, maybe a Grizzly. The track saw makes sense when you want to cut to finished dimensions and avoid the table saw entirely for sizing large pieces.

The only significant thing I see better about the track saw for rough sizing is the fact that it will follow the track regardless of how you push. It isn't hard to wander away from a homemade guide. But it isn't hard to use it correctly, either.

[Ole Anderson]

I just looked up the Grizzly and for $300 or so you can have the saw, 2 55" tracks and the clamps. Doesn't get great reviews, but price is good. Would like to hear from users of it. Are other blades available?

I have the Grizz with two 55" tracks and have no major issues. Price was a major inducement. I did put a shoe near the front of the blade to help with dust collection, when I care about dust collection. I would buy it again. I do use a Freud blade on it, not that the other blade was bad, just seemed like a good idea when cutting up eight $100 sheets of 3/4" hickory for my kitchen cabs. I dropped the saw once and bent the cast aluminum base plate out of flat. Judicious use of a dead blow hammer set everything straight again.

[mark mcfarlane]

....Both the home made and the Festool are used the same, make the mark, put down the guide on the mark and cut.

Chris, FYI, that is only one of the ways to use a Festool rail for breaking down sheet goods. Another way is to use the parallel guides. Another way is to use an MFT & rail for perfect 45 and 90 degree cuts.

No marks to make, very fast setup for 'the next cut' (after the initial-purchase calibration), no worry about drifting off the mark and running back and forth end-to-end readjusting clamps, integrated clamping beneath the work you are cutting, and you get multiple pieces that are exact same width with the parallel guides,....

Then there are all the sheet good breakdown cross cut options (with an MFT,...) for perfect 90 degree cuts without measuring and drawing lines,....

I don't use my Festool tracksaw in any way even remotely similar to how I used to use a homemade track jig.

[Warren Lake]

As ive read this stuff ive thought what am I missing how do people break down a 4 x 8? are they measuring is there a guide system for square, how accurate is it, is there a guide system for Parrallel, how accurate is it, cut a 4 x 8 into six pieces how long does it take and how accurate.

My Mcgiver stick has worked just fine and if it takes a few minutes longer to put two clamps on the odd job I need it for on a 100 hour job so what. I watched the fancy video and saw a bunch of guys talk about how great it is onsite, no dust cut doors better than their table saw. No one showed a 4 x 8 cut down for say kitchen lowers and uppers to see how fast it is, or with tolerances or the whole story So Mark thanks for mentioning there is more to it but would be nice if one of them shows the whole story. I do see the value and its better than my Mcgiver stick and can do more however. Jointing with a track saw? It cant do a spring joint. Ripping thick lumber, my 3 hp saw is underpowered at times for that. Whats the cost of the whole rig? its all new to me and have to digest it, if someone knows of a video that gives the whole story please put it up. I looked up the saw and track and there was nothing for jig guides for square or parallel on the site that I looked at

[Kent A Bathurst]

I have used both a home made saw guide and a Festool track saw a lot for breaking down large sheets. There is zero advantage in using the Festool for simply breaking down sheets and I would not waste a lot of money buying any track system just for that. Both the home made and the Festool are used the same, make the mark, put down the guide on the mark and cut.


Chris, FYI, that is only one of the ways to use a Festool rail for breaking down sheet goods. Another way is to use the parallel guides. Another way is to use an MFT & rail for perfect 45 and 90 degree cuts.

No marks to make, very fast setup for 'the next cut' (after the initial-purchase calibration), no worry about drifting off the mark and running back and forth end-to-end readjusting clamps, integrated clamping beneath the work you are cutting, and you get multiple pieces that are exact same width with the parallel guides,....

Then there are all the sheet good breakdown cross cut options (with an MFT,...) for perfect 90 degree cuts without measuring and drawing lines,....

I don't use my Festool tracksaw in any way even remotely similar to how I used to use a homemade track jig.


OK - so I think the answer to my question comes down to this: Would I be using the track saw system as a replacement for a table saw, or for sheet goods breakdown?

If my predominant work is in sheet goods.......... then the "system" has advantages.

If construction out of sheet goods is only an occasional task, then I can afford the extra set up time Mark correctly notes.

Any problems with my summary analysis? I am trying to get my head around this topic, and welcome comments.

[Ken Kortge]

I'll add my $0.02 worth ...

I've used Eurekazone tracks for 7 years now, and they have completely changed my woodworking life.

Regarding home-made guides:
I have never been successful using a circular saw by hand. It always "walked" off the cut line as if it hated me. I even bought a brand new saw thinking that there was something wrong with the original one - no difference. I made the standard two-layer homemade cut guide and tried that, but the saw still wondered off to one side of the guide. You can imagine how frustrating that was. I've worked with others manhandling a sheet of plywood through a small table saw. I KNOW the cut was not as straight as it should have been, and I hated the sound and the smell of burning wood while the wood jammed into the blade. I went years avoiding working with plywood because of this. It was only when I discovered the Eurekazone track system in 2008 that I was able to cut plywood - and cut it very easily, accurately, and cleanly.

Regarding their "system":
Over the years I've purchased several accessories and have enjoyed using them. These include an earlier version of their multiform table, the right angle miter, the router system, the special clamp system that allows ripping narrow boards, and the repeaters that provide accurate and repeatable parallel cuts.

Comparing the tracks themselves:
Take a look at this picture to see the obvious difference between the track extrusion used by Festool (and most others) and the much more robust Eurkekazone track:
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mbg/media/EZ%20Smart/Rails/Rails.jpg.html

I've read some say that the flexibility of the thinner tracks is a feature. Really? Why don't table saws use flexible tables then?

This picture also shows the Eurekazone track's unique dovetail grove feature that allows accessories to self-center - for amazing accuracy without have to adjust alignment or squareness each time.

I've thought about getting Eurekazone's saw edge guide to do parallel cuts, but given my history of problems with the homemade guide I chose to stick with the tracks. Its very tempting though.

Regarding cut quality:
With a table saw the blade rotates with the teeth hitting downward at the cut edge. The top of the cut is clean, but the bottom is where tearout can happen - unless you are using a good zero clearence insert. Most people I know do not use such an insert.

With a circular saw the blade rotates with the teeth hitting upward at the cut edge. The bottom of the cut is clean, but the top is where the tearout can happen. This is where the track saw base and track edge comes into play. The Eurekazone's saw base has a replaceable ($5) anti-chip insert and track has a replaceable (~$8) edge are custom cut for each saw and blade. They completely cover the top edges of the cut kerf on both sides so the track saw has a cut quality like that of the table saw with the zero clearance insert.

The Eurekazone base also has a replaceable anti-kickback fin that prevents kickback. Somewhere there is a video of Dino (the inventor of the system) twisting a saw during a cut trying to cause kickback - without any luck. I hope you table saw users keep the riving knife and/or anti-kickback pawls on - but many don't. I have friends who brag about yanking the guards off.

Regarding cut depth:
The Hitachi 7-1/4" saw used on track will almost - but not quite - cut clean through 2x dimensional lumber. It leaves a bit of wood somewhere between the thickness of paper and cereal box cardboard. I can easily cut it off with a knife - which is exactly what I do. Its not been a problem for me. I bought Eurekazone's special "Clamp System" (not their regular clamp), which allows me to rip full lengths on 2x4 or 2x6 lumber without a table saw. I've thought about getting the Makita saw with the bigger blade, but so for the 7-1/4 saw is doing me fine. Oh, and I also have a sliding miter saw for easy cross cuts.

Dust collection:
I use an "EZ-ready" Hitachi saw purchased from Eurekazone. If you go to their site you'll see what I'm talking about. It came with the base and a dust collection port added . They added a clear flexible plastic hood over the front base of the saw to help trap dust. Works well for me.

About using Routers with the track:
Just to be clear, Eurekazone has a pretty slick but simple router system that works with its tracks. Just like with the rest of the system - you provide your own router - or you can buy an "EZ-ready router" if you wish to. I went with an extra plunge base for use with my Bosch 1617 router.

I guess that was more than $0.02 worth. Finding the track saw was as important to me as finding the Kreg Jig. Life changing for me.

[Scott DelPorte]

Hi Kent, I think your reasoning is sound. I have a track saw that I use for breaking down sheet goods so I can use a table saw. I also sometimes use it to square up the end of a large glue up.

Both can be done using other methods without a "system", so it really comes down to (at least for me) a trade off between owning yet one more contraption in my shop and the convenience of making these two types of cuts quickly. Right now the track saw is earning its keep.

[Bryan Cramer]

I too have the EZ system and I do agree with the above comments. I really like the system and only use it to cut plywood. If you are going with a guide system that uses a circular saw then the best saw to get is this Dewalt (http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW364-Circular-Electric-Adjustment/dp/B00002231Y/ref=dp_ob_title_hi) with a blade paralleling adjustment. The rear screw turns to adjust the blade like a table saw trunion. This saw has very good bearings and lots of power. I have seen a few framing crews that use this saw instead of worm drive saws. There is also an 8 1/4" model (http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW384-4-Inch-Circular-Adjustment/dp/B000022320/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1440979194&sr=1-1&keywords=dewalt+8+1+4+circular+saw&pebp=1440979196428&perid=1C1AKEYG77BFTDNE964X).

[Allan Speers]

The Eurekazone base also has a replaceable anti-kickback fin that prevents kickback. Somewhere there is a video of Dino (the inventor of the system) twisting a saw during a cut trying to cause kickback - without any luck. I hope you table saw users keep the riving knife and/or anti-kickback pawls on - but many don't. I have friends who brag about yanking the guards off.


Ken, I agree wholeheartedly with everything else you wrote, but I have to make a negative comment about the "fin." IMO is almost worthless. I received two of them when they first came out, installed one, and was stunned to find that it (literally) doesn't extend into the wood, when cutting on the track! All I can figure is that it's supposed to help when cutting freehand, with the other insert.

I promptly made my own fin, out of a piece of aluminum "L" channel, and it works great.

Now I'm planning to make an actual riving knife: My idea is to cut back the blade guard, and attach a splitter to the end of it. This would then follow the angle of the blade (you cannot make a bevel cut with the fin) and because of the guard's spring, it would even allow for plunge cuts, which I occasionally do via my EZ-ONE table's bridge system.

My new Makita 10" saw has a brake, so I'm not worried about losing the actual blade guard to much. I wouldn't do this on a brake-less saw, though.

--------------

You also mentioned that you've considered the "edge guide" by which I assume you mean the UEG.

I have one, and have never used it. I thought it would be a great way to quickly make 3-4 identical cuts. However, what they don't tell you is that you have to swap inserts in your base to use the UEG. You can't just take it off your track, and attach the UEG. Well, have you ever tried removing that bloody insert? It's insanely difficult. Then attaching the UEG is harder than you'd expect, as the four bolts flop around independently. (This can be improved with some work & hard thinking) And last, the thing won't stay square, no matter how well you align it. I beefed mine up by bolting on some aluminum channel to the back end, across the two arms, but it should have been designed that way in the first place.

Anyway, the only way I'd ever use the UEG is if I had a saw & base dedicated to it. For that, one would have to rip a LOT of 8' plywood. For the typical hobbyist, making 3, 4, 5 cuts, it's much faster to just mark your line and use the track.

[Michael Cole]

I appreciate all the information.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I also sometimes use it to square up the end of a large glue up.

Yeah - I can definitely see that............

[Warren Wilson]

I have used shop-built tracks with circular saws in a couple of iterations and the best seems to have been a fine-toothed DeWalt 6.5 inch cordless riding along a two-layered track. I bought a DeWalt track saw and I prefer it to any of its shop-made predecessors.

1. The clamps on my shop made tracks always seemed to want to get in the way. Not a problem with the track saw. (I suppose I could have put a bigger effort into creating a clamping system similar to that of store-bought tracks).

2. An aluminum track is considerably less influenced by humidity than a plywood track.

3. The quality of cut is superior. It is, in fact, superior to that obtained on my table saw -- a big point in favor of those of us who do not have sliders.

4. (This was the deal-maker for me) The bevel cuts available from the track saw are clean, consistent and precise. I actually bought the track saw when building a corner cabinet and getting frustrated by both my table saw and my home-made track system. Since getting the track saw I have used the ability to rip long perfect bevels often: maybe just because I can.

If anyone objects to the notion of buying an expensive tool just to complete one project, please say it quietly enough that my wife cannot hear.

[Jim Dwight]

Kent,

I don't accept that you need to use sheet goods a lot to get good use out of a track saw. The last project I used mine on was all solid wood (softwood, my wife wanted pickled pine finish). I used the track saw to cut a straight edge on each board prior to glueup (I needed 16 inch wide pieces). I used the track saw to cut to final width and length. This project had no fancy edges and I used my router table to rabbet for the back but I could have hunted around and possibly found my router setup for the track and used that too.

I don't think you will get good use out of a track saw if you build consistently little things. It is possible to cut small pieces with a track saw but it is a bit of a pain. Table saw, CMS and RAS work better. The track saw shines with larger pieces of material. They are a pain to put through a table saw although a lot less so if you have infeed and outfeed support (or a slider). With a track saw, it is easy to support the workpiece and make the cut. I have used mine several times to trim doors. I beveled one with it. I needed almost my full depth of cut, however. I could have done it with a circular saw and guide but the cut would have been rougher and I would have had to concentrate on it more.

My rule of thumb is track saw for big pieces, other tools for little pieces. I made a board for a project my wife wants to make, for instance, yesterday. It is about 14 high and 24 wide. I could have used the track saw but it was easier to true up on the table saw. Once I get my workbench done with a crosscut jig on it, however, it would have been about as easy for the track saw to do. So it matters some how well set up you are with other tools. I nice slider table saw and no need for something at other locations and maybe you don't need a track saw. Nice track saw setup complete with MFT or better bench, maybe you don't need a table saw.

[George Bokros]

I too have the EZ system and I do agree with the above comments. I really like the system and only use it to cut plywood. If you are going with a guide system that uses a circular saw then the best saw to get is this Dewalt (http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW364-Circular-Electric-Adjustment/dp/B00002231Y/ref=dp_ob_title_hi) with a blade paralleling adjustment. The rear screw turns to adjust the blade like a table saw trunion. This saw has very good bearings and lots of power. I have seen a few framing crews that use this saw instead of worm drive saws. There is also an 8 1/4" model (http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW384-4-Inch-Circular-Adjustment/dp/B000022320/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1440979194&sr=1-1&keywords=dewalt+8+1+4+circular+saw&pebp=1440979196428&perid=1C1AKEYG77BFTDNE964X).


Brian will the 7 1/4" saw you recommend cut through two sheets of ply with the EZ tracksaw track? The DW 575 will but it does not have the blade parallel adjustment feature.

[Mike Goetzke]

I stumbled on Eurekazone (EZ) saw track many years ago. I bought it because one day I was ripping a sheet of ply on my Uni and stalled it when I ever so slightly skewed the sheet (even with using roller stands). I loved the saw track so much after the initial purchase I eventually added about everything they offered over the next several years. I even made my own PBB (power-bench-bridge) and later modified it into an EZ-One bench. After building cabinets for our kitchen I decided sell my TS and try using a track saw only. After several months I missed my TS and got lucky and found a 1950 Uni locally and fully restored it. For sheet goods I exclusively use my track saw system. The ends of ply are usually not square but the long ends are very straight and parallel to each other. I use a Universal Edge Guide (UEG) from EZ that I have my Makita 18V cordless saw attached to to quickly and precisely rip sheets of ply to size. I then use the EZ Square or Cabinet Maker to perform X-cuts. I almost no longer use the bulky EZ-One bench for breaking down ply.

Mike

[Bill McNiel]

Michael,
Please check your Purchase Agreement for the Domino, I believe you will find, in the very fine print on the reverse side, that you are now required/obligated to purchase only Festool products or have the existing warranty voided and your personal well being put at risk.

My personal experience is that once you "buy" into the Festool system you will continue to build upon it. This is expensive but rewarding in the long run. I have designed, built, used many saw guidance elements over the years and IMHO the Festool track and saws are the best I've experienced.

[mark mcfarlane]

OK - so I think the answer to my question comes down to this: Would I be using the track saw system as a replacement for a table saw, or for sheet goods breakdown?

If my predominant work is in sheet goods.......... then the "system" has advantages.

If construction out of sheet goods is only an occasional task, then I can afford the extra set up time Mark correctly notes.

Any problems with my summary analysis? I am trying to get my head around this topic, and welcome comments.

Stated slightly differently,...

Assuming you are working in a shop, not a job site...

If you have something large and unwieldily to cut, and you want a fast accurate cut, and you don't already have a slider with an 8' rip and crosscut capability, a tracksaw is awfully handy, easy to setup, and accurate.

My old workflow was to cut down sheet goods to approximate size, then finalize the size on a table saw. With a good tracksaw you can simply skip the 2-cut approach and go right to finished size, with minimal or no tearout. The first cut on a full sheet is better for me on a tracksaw compared to a non-sliding table saw 'cause I always had a problem manhandling that heavy a sheet through the blade.

FWIW, I've built 2 bookcases and a small table out of red oak using only a TS55 and MFT rig. It was a 'different' experience from using a table saw, but during these 3 builds my workflow and confidence has improved with the track system to where I think I can could work at a similar speed to using a table saw, and with similar accuracy. Note that an MFT setup provides a lot more than just a 'track saw', with a miter system, fence, fence stops, efficient clamping,...

Although I still see a slider in my future, if I can't find the space for one I am confident I can make excellent furniture fairly efficiently using only a tracksaw. Not exactly neanderthal,...

So my summary: the tracksaw is awesome for large, bulky work, but can also be used for other smaller stuff.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

So, what are the benefits of say the Dewalt or the Festool track saws?



They can plunge cut. This can be really nice at times, but is not really needed. I like it so that I can have the saw sitting more on the wood than off the wood before I start the cut (the the track won't be as likely to bend).
Great dust collection built in.
Great nice cut. No, wait, this probably has more to do with the blade. Just drop in an appropriate blade into your circular saw, and it will make a huge difference.
When you make your cut, you cut through the rubber edge so that you know right where the blade will cut. You probably have this with every system.


You get the idea.

[Jim Dwight]

So, what are the benefits of say the Dewalt or the Festool track saws?



They can plunge cut. This can be really nice at times, but is not really needed. I like it so that I can have the saw sitting more on the wood than off the wood before I start the cut (the the track won't be as likely to bend).
Great dust collection built in.
Great nice cut. No, wait, this probably has more to do with the blade. Just drop in an appropriate blade into your circular saw, and it will make a huge difference.
When you make your cut, you cut through the rubber edge so that you know right where the blade will cut. You probably have this with every system.


You get the idea.

Much greater depth of cut. Much better dust collection. Lighter less bulky tracks. It's admittedly a small thing but better blade attachment/easier blade changes. The DeWalt is sometimes faulted for this but I took mine off for cleaning over the weekend (was thinking of replacing but it was sharp, just dirty). It's a bit different but easier than any circular saw I've used. There is an additional step to plunge the blade and lock it down so you can get to the screw. The advantages I see is a better attachment (slotted so it doesn't rotate with a nicely machined washer), tool carried on the saw (allen wrench in handle), and lock button is on top where it is easily accessed. I've seen the comments from others citing same cut quality for circular saws, I haven't see that. But I believe the build quality of the track saws is just better than the vast majority of circular saws. It is not reasonable to think you can get a circular saw for ~$100 that is equal to a track saw at ~$300 or more.

[Jim Dwight]

As ive read this stuff ive thought what am I missing how do people break down a 4 x 8? are they measuring is there a guide system for square, how accurate is it, is there a guide system for Parrallel, how accurate is it, cut a 4 x 8 into six pieces how long does it take and how accurate.

My Mcgiver stick has worked just fine and if it takes a few minutes longer to put two clamps on the odd job I need it for on a 100 hour job so what. I watched the fancy video and saw a bunch of guys talk about how great it is onsite, no dust cut doors better than their table saw. No one showed a 4 x 8 cut down for say kitchen lowers and uppers to see how fast it is, or with tolerances or the whole story So Mark thanks for mentioning there is more to it but would be nice if one of them shows the whole story. I do see the value and its better than my Mcgiver stick and can do more however. Jointing with a track saw? It cant do a spring joint. Ripping thick lumber, my 3 hp saw is underpowered at times for that. Whats the cost of the whole rig? its all new to me and have to digest it, if someone knows of a video that gives the whole story please put it up. I looked up the saw and track and there was nothing for jig guides for square or parallel on the site that I looked at

I don't think you can get everything in one place but here is a good video of Ron Paulk using a Festool with parallel guide (Festool, there are 3 others available) to cut up multiple sheets of plywood for some garage cabinets:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqA9edtoSCs

It doesn't have a real elapsed time but it gives you a good view of the process. Ron's bench is easily adapted to other brands of saws. Parallel guides do not, to my knowledge, exist for other brands but I made one for my DeWalt based upon a thread on this website. Ron's workbench design has a crosscut jig setup that should be extremely accurate - it can be trued as necessary. Parallel guide accuracy is quite good but I prefer to clamp the rail so it can't shift during cutting. For sheet goods that doesn't seem necessary but I like to use mine on solid wood too and it isn't as dependably flat so the track can move easier. There are a couple parallel jigs that do not prevent clamping. That would be an advantage.

The things you have to look out for are different with a track saw but used correctly, I don't see any reason for it to be less accurate than a table saw. The saw cuts EXACTLY on the edge of the guide. Not even 1/128 off. You just have to put the track where you want the cut to be. Speed will be a function of the setup for both.

[Kent A Bathurst]

...My old workflow was to cut down sheet goods to approximate size, then finalize the size on a table saw. With a good tracksaw you can simply skip the 2-cut approach and go right to finished size......

OK, Mark - I get that.

I'm still not sure I could not eliminate the TS from the shop.......too much work is solid wood from rough stock. So - for me - a shop-made version to break down ply first seems to fit best. I am taking a couple more steps that I would with a real system, but it is not a big % of what I do, so there is a balance in there somewhere...

Thanks for your comments - well thought out.

Kent

[Chris Padilla]

I didn't read the whole thread but if anyone cuts at anything other than the blade at 0 degrees (or 90 degrees depending on how you like to call it), can the r'glar old circular saws and EZ handle that with no problem? It is no problem with the Festool because of the pivot point. You you use the same trace and the same zero-clearance little rubber piece at the track's edge to keep those cuts splinter/tear-out free.

[Allan Speers]

I didn't read the whole thread but if anyone cuts at anything other than the blade at 0 degrees (or 90 degrees depending on how you like to call it), can the r'glar old circular saws and EZ handle that with no problem? It is no problem with the Festool because of the pivot point. You you use the same trace and the same zero-clearance little rubber piece at the track's edge to keep those cuts splinter/tear-out free.

You raise a good point. With the EZ system, only normal cuts and 90º cuts put the blade right against the anti-chip edge. All other bevelled cuts leave a gap.

Of course, such cuts then still leave an edge as good as a table saw, (which has NO anti-chip edge at all) so it's not the biggest problem in the world. (And how often do you cut 33 degrees?

I have an idea to solve this, however, with my EZ-ONE table, and improve dust collection at the same time: My idea is to angle the TRACK instead of the blade, always leaving the saw in its "stock" blade position. I have to figure out how to angle the bridge, so only the front plastic edge of the track is touching the stock. I think this is a viable plan,the EZ track, because the EZ track is extremely stiff and should support the saw without bending. - But we shall see. The 10" Makita is a bit heavy, so there might be a problem with the plastic edge itself bending.

[Michael Cole]

Michael,
Please check your Purchase Agreement for the Domino, I believe you will find, in the very fine print on the reverse side, that you are now required/obligated to purchase only Festool products or have the existing warranty voided and your personal well being put at risk.

My personal experience is that once you "buy" into the Festool system you will continue to build upon it. This is expensive but rewarding in the long run. I have designed, built, used many saw guidance elements over the years and IMHO the Festool track and saws are the best I've experienced.

To be honest, my first choice would be the Festool (probably the cordless one), but it is quite a bit more expensive. However, I have learned over my 62 years that sometimes when you spend more, you get more and after a short time you will forget about the extra money.

[mark mcfarlane]

OK, Mark - I get that.

I'm still not sure I could not eliminate the TS from the shop.......too much work is solid wood from rough stock. So - for me - a shop-made version to break down ply first seems to fit best. I am taking a couple more steps that I would with a real system, but it is not a big % of what I do, so there is a balance in there somewhere...

Thanks for your comments - well thought out.

Kent

Two last thoughts. Although I haven't tried it, I suspect a tracksaw wouldn't be very good at cutting off the live edge on a warped/cupped board. A slider with clamps seems ideal for this.

My limited experience with my track saw indicates they aren't very good at working with narrow wood. Although you can use another board to help support the track, there is no obvious way to clamp and rip a 1" wide board and the risk of board movement is pretty high. Still, I was able to do tapers on 8/4 legs with the tracksaw, but was a tad nervous.

[Kent A Bathurst]

A slider with clamps seems ideal for this.

True - but I have a nice sled w/clamps that does the same thing on my TS.........put it in play when I have that task at hand.

Lately, though, I have been getting good enough free-handing through the BS that I can do that, and then go to the jointer - a couple extra passes, but I don't have to drag out the sled.

[Allan Speers]

Two last thoughts. Although I haven't tried it, I suspect a tracksaw wouldn't be very good at cutting off the live edge on a warped/cupped board. A slider with clamps seems ideal for this.

That's one example of how the stiffness of the EZ track can be beneficial, over the flexibility of all other tracks. The same is true of cutting 1/8 & 1/4" ply, especially if it's a little warped. In the first case, the track's stiffness helps maintain a level (hence 90 degree) cut over the wonky stock. In the second case, when you clamp the thin ply to the stiff track, it straightens the ply out to some degree.

[Bryan Cramer]

No I don't think so. It is very close; within an 1/8". Maybe I can find a 7 1/2" blade to do that. There is room in the guard.