Help - Buying a New Drill Press

[John Akerblom]

Hey everybody,

I need a little help figuring out which drill press to buy. I do hobby/semi pro work in my garage. I am looking to spend about $600-$800. I work with a lot of burl, exotic hardwood, and other dense unpleasant to mill woods.

I want a drill press with 1. 5" - 6" spindle travel, 2. power, 3. large table (preferably with mdf insert).

Right now, I am deciding between the following models.

Jet 17" DP (JDP-17) ($740) - 5" quill travel, 3/4 hp, large table with replaceable mdf insert
NEW - Rikon 17" DP (30-236) ($750) - 6" quill travel 1.5 hp, smaller table with what looks like no insert
Grizzly 20" DP - (G7948) ($670 w/ freight) - 4 3/4" quill travel, 1.5 HP, large table with no insert

If anyone else knows of any other good drill presses with long quill travel and large tables, I'm all ears.

I have a couple of questions besides feedback regarding pros/cons of each model:

1. If the table only has a certain size hole, do I have to make some sort of jig to drill large holes? (i.e. drilling a 2" or 3" hole with forstner bit?)

2. Will 3/4 HP be powerful enough to drill large holes through exotic hardwoods? I don't do much with metal, so that's a minimal concern.

3. Does anyone have any experience with the new Rikon? It seems pretty great with the 6" quill travel, but I don't like the smaller table and haven't been able to track down any reviews.

4. What fence (with dust port) works best with a larger drill press?


Again, any and all feedback is greatly appreciated. My garage is starting to come together nicely, and it's great to have a resource like this when it's tough to track down reviews.

John Akerblom

[John Akerblom]

Also, it seems as if only the Jet and Grizzly (of the models I've listed) include T-Slot Grooves that would allow the addition of a standard fence. This isn't necessarily a deal breaker as for most projects I would just be lining up the individual hole and clamping it down, but a fence could come in handy for some repetitive tasks.

[Sean Tracey]

Stroke is the most important feature of those you listed. You want 6 inches of stroke.

The table is unimportant as long as it is rigid. You can always make or buy a table to put on it and it will have the MDF insert.

Drills don't need a whole lot of power. But lots of speeds or a good variable speed mechanism are important.

[Scott Brandstetter]

I am a huge fan of Grizzly tools and have nothing but great things to say. I wanted to buy one of their drill presses but want more stroke and I wanted a better way to change speeds. I am hoping to get a new press myself and I'm very intrigued by the Rikon (I don't own any of their tools yet). I like the Powermatic but don't want to pay the upcharge for the name.

Let us know what you end up with and give a review.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Stroke is the most important feature of those you listed.

Wait until a vintage Rockwell or Powermatic shows up on Craigslist. That budget is more than enough for an excellent specimen.

[Mark Stubblefield]

Also take note that the Rikon will be $650 at woodcraft in their upcoming sale... 8/29-9/25 Use the $100 you saved to buy a WP table: http://www.woodpeck.com/wpdrillpresstable.html

[Thomas Canfield]

I would make the following suggestions to consider, but no recommendation:
1. Look at speed ranges available. A slow speed down to about 250 is needed for the larger Forstner bits. Also check the available speeds and what is required to change belts to obtain the speeds ( some require complete removal of 2 belts to make minor speed change) and have big gaps in speed range.
2. Check spindle lock. Handy when setting up for drilling and also for sanding
3. Check drill depth gauge method
4. A smaller table is not a killer since as mentioned you can add a table with fence, hold-downs, removable insert, etc easily
5. Check the strength of the column and baseplate. The cast iron base on my 17" Delta has flex and can vibrate with heavy loads.
6. Get a good one. I think the drill press is the most underrated tool in the shop, and mine gets a lot of use.
7. I usually have a belt slippage issue rather than a power issue when drilling 3" Forstner holes.

[daryl moses]

The size of hole in the table is a non issue IMO. I NEVER drill deeper than the top of the table I ALWAYS use a sacrificial piece under the work piece. It prevents an inadvertent hole in the table and prevents tear out on the piece you are drilling.

[Cary Falk]

The low speed on the Rikon sucks.
The quill travel on the Jet sucks and the new model is ugly.:D
The quill travel Grizzly sucks.

I am glad I am not in the market for a drill press. I love my PM1200

[John Lankers]

I can't comment on the drill presses you're considering, but don't forget about the swing. I had a nice 14" General International but the quill travel was only 3 1/2" and the 14" swing gave me less than 7" of reach which was not enough for what I needed it to do, I would look for at least 20" better 22" or more swing.
A 3/4 hp motor should be enough for larger forstner bits at low speed though.

[Earl Rumans]

I have the Delta 18-900L and it meets all your requirements. I know there have been some quality control problems with Delta but I have had my DP for over 2 years and it has been a great piece for me and hasn't given me a single problem. When I was looking for a DP, I had many of your same requirements but I added low speed capability to the list, because it's needed for the larger drill bits. I narrowed it down to the Delta or the Powermatic and I didn't really like the way the belt system worked on the PM so I got the Delta. It is not an inexpensive DP but I really like mine.

[Kent Adams]

The low speed on the Rikon sucks.
The quill travel on the Jet sucks and the new model is ugly.:D
The quill travel Grizzly sucks.

I am glad I am not in the market for a drill press. I love my PM1200

Isn't the PM1200 an air filtration system?

[Cary Falk]

Isn't the PM1200 an air filtration system?

Didn't use to be. It was a 20" dp with 6" quill travel that weighed in at about 600 lbs.
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q297/caryincamas/DSC_1325_zpsc9eead75.jpg

Looks like the subtle difference in the naming is the Powermatic 1200 vs the Powermatic PM1200

[Ronald Blue]

The 6" of quill travel seems to be a plus but I would want to see it in person. I wonder how much lateral movement it has as the quill reaches full extension. The deal killer is the low RPM minimum. That is fast for anything with diameter. It certainly would not be very useful if you wanted or needed to drill steel. They had something going here and they could have incorporated a two speed pulley setup to allow greater range in each direction. Where are you located? Craigslist might offer some good older options. Even a 3 phase would be good with a 3 phase converter. Then you could have variable speed and a good old American workhorse. Good luck whatever you choose to do.

[Chip Byrd]

I just noticed that Woodcraft is offering $100 off the Rikon.

[pat warner]

Great presses (for wood, metal, & plastic) start at 2500$ new. Wood only, no precision required? Buy cheap import.
Not good enough? Maybe a rebuilt is your best buy.
What old drills are great? They must be re-built x reputable sources. But if done well, they pay for themsleves 5x over.
Buffalo, Atlas, DoAll, Davis & Wells, Powermatics, Rockwells, General, Clausing, Delta, Pre'65 Sears, walker-turner, Duro, & Wilton
e.g.

[Larry Copas]

The last FWW had a compressive test of drill presses. It would be a must read for someone planning a purchase.

I bought a vintage Rockwell drill press with variable speed via a reeves drive a few years ago. Think I paid $250. After a quick clean up and lube job I put it to work. I wouldn't trade it for any of the machines in the FWW test.

[glenn bradley]

Like any tool, your happiness with a drill press stems from what you do with it. I very rarely have to drill a 6" deep hole and when I do it is not on the drill press. The longer the stroke the more opportunity for inaccuracy. The table height adjusts, right? Speed range is of primary importance to me and I find it interesting that it is not one of your criteria. Proper speed to cutter/material settings can make or break your result.

I should have started with a disclaimer; I am a disgruntled drill press shopper. I have seen nothing in the sub-$3000 range that I would spend more than a few hundred dollars on. It is not beyond us to build a decent drill press so I assume there is just not adequate demand for a reasonably priced, quality product to make it worth bringing one to market.

-- Are you sensing the sour grapes here :) --

The new Steel City, Powermatic, Jet and Rikon offerings all fall short in vertical quill slop. I could attribute it to poor setup of floor models but, there are no adjustments on these machines for removing this slop; it is what it is. So much for drilling consistent depth holes :rolleyes:. I did run across one PM2800B at a show that had only about 1/32" of depth slop so you can get lucky (if not really accurate). Most that I have laid hands on have around a 1/16" of play.

A table is not a deal breaker for me. I do enjoy the left/right/front/back tilt on my current little Delta but, even the best "woodworking" tables I've seen would get an add-on. I need more positioning and holddown options than the makers think I do. Again, this is of value to me and may not be important to what you are doing.

The upside in the DP market right now is that there are $500 DP's that are basically as good as $1500 DP's in the areas that are important to me. I berate myself for giving away (yes, for free) my Grandpa's 1940's Delta. My Delta 19-750 gets me by. If not stellar in its performance it is at least predictable.

There are a bevy of older machines out there. The challenge is finding one large enough that is not being sold by someone who knows why you want it and prices it accordingly. If you can do with a 14" machine, there are a lot of old Delta DP-200-ish machines out there. I needed more capacity but, wasn't willing to spend $1000 plus for what is currently offered.

I patiently wait for an opportunity or a shift in the industry ;)

[Kent Adams]

Cool. I like that drill's looks a lot. Is that 80's vintage (just a guess based on the belt housing design).

[Jesse Busenitz]

Wait until a vintage Rockwell or Powermatic shows up on Craigslist. That budget is more than enough for an excellent specimen.

+1 I have a PM1100 and a Walker Turner 900, both are solid drill presses. The WT is a bench model but the PO bolted it to a sweet looking cast iron base with decorative legs and it really looks sweet too.

[Larry Fox]

IMHO the thing you should do before purchasing any drill press is to talk to Pat Warner. Guy is super nice / helpful and has a wealth of information. I faced the drill press buying decision recently and went with a vintage rockwell and an Albreicht keyless chuck. Was NOT an inexpensive undertaking but worth it. No experience with the models you mention but a conversation with Pat will likely save you some $$ and point you in the right direction.

[Bob Cumming]

I have several drill presses. I agree that quill travel is important, and suggest buying the one with the most travel. I also agree that purchasing an aftermarket table or building one yourself are possibilities that will increase versatility. Above and beyond all these, however, are the following:
1. Variable speed;
2. Sharpness of accessories
On scale of 1 to 10 (10 is best), I'd rate features that mean the most to me as follows:

Variable speed: 10
Quill travel: 9-10
Table size: 8
Throat: 8
Table height adjustment: 8
Ability of table to accommodate accessories (drill press vise, etc.): 7
lighting: 10

The vast majority of drill presses have poor work area lighting. I found that two commercial sewing machine lamps with goose necks mounted on a bracket clamped to the drill press head tube provides excellent illumination that can be easily adjusted and controlled by a small 3-4 multi-outlet attached conveniently with Velcro. With both lamp switches left on the on position, both can be controlled by turning the outlet on/off. LED screw-in bulbs provide very good illumination. Here's a link to the type that I mounted on my vertical mill:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLEXIBLE-GOOSENECK-lamps-LIGHT-steel-Bendable-21-long-for-sewing-machine-/181654319818?hash=item2a4b70f2ca

[Peter Aeschliman]

I'm curious- what operations are you guys doing in woodworking that requires drilling precision? Boring the center of turned pens? I've survived the last 10 years with a crumby bench top Jet drill drill press and didn't wish for something nicer until I needed to drill through-holes in some structural 6x6 posts for my basement renovation. My little drill press wasn't up for it, so I used it as an excuse to buy the new Jet drill press.

I haven't gotten out a dial indicator, but I'm sure it has run out. I'm sure it has something to do with the haphazard way in which in stalled the taper (needed to get to work ASAP). And it looks funky (like a drone!). Speed adjustment is pretty easy, and it has a wider speed range than the reeves drive systems like the 2x more expensive Powermatic. For the price, I'm fine with what I got. I'm not jumping for joy, and it certainly won't be the nicest tool in my shop, but I probably only use my drill press once every few months...

I'm not machining parts for an engine. So I'm really curious what ya'all are using your drill presses for in woodworking that requires so much precision and so many features.

[Kent A Bathurst]

So I'm really curious what ya'all are using your drill presses for in woodworking that requires so much precision and so many features.

Silly Rabbit. Tricks are for WW Kids.

You might as well ask why my till is full of LN planes, LV planes, Adria backsaws........

[pat warner]

"I'm curious- what operations are you guys doing in woodworking that requires drilling precision?"
************************************************
This router table (http://patwarner.com/images/new_router_table1.jpg) is full of holes. No drill skills, no router table.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Silly Rabbit. Tricks are for WW Kids.

You might as well ask why my till is full of LN planes, LV planes, Adria backsaws........

I'm serious though! Give me some examples in furniture making where you need the level of precision that requires a $3k+ drill press. I totally get the idea of having awesome tools just because they're awesome. If that's what gives a hobbiest joy, then I won't stand in the way or criticize. But as a practical matter, I'm curious what examples you have of cases where you need nearly no run out when drilling through wood for furniture-making.



"I'm curious- what operations are you guys doing in woodworking that requires drilling precision?"
************************************************
This router table (http://patwarner.com/images/new_router_table1.jpg) is full of holes. No drill skills, no router table.

Okay, you got me on a technicality, Pat! haha. I would call that machining more than woodworking. So your example makes sense, but you're talking about building a tool in this case, not a furniture piece.

BTW I'm going to have to stare at that thing for a while! I have no idea what's going on with all of the nobs, threaded rod, dial indicators, etc. Looks like a work of art.

[pat warner]

I use the DP for all the furniture I make. This printer stand (http://patwarner.com/images/printer_stand1.jpg) is designed to stand the tests of time, e.g.
And steel cross doweling requires precision location/layout and high drill skills.

[Cary Falk]

Cool. I like that drill's looks a lot. Is that 80's vintage (just a guess based on the belt housing design).

I don't remember the exact date but I believe it was early '80's.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Give me some examples in furniture making where you need the level of precision that requires a $3k+ drill press.

I dunno $3k. But - runout is a legitimate deal, as it is with your table saw. Just a couple of examples -

> a row of holes to outline a mortise that will be cleaned up with chisels - how much wandering are you OK with?

> Holes for pegged joinery - how oversize/oblong can the holes be and look good to you?

The problem today is that the selection of DPs on offer today seem to be of marginal quality, and you have to go big to get in the accuracy game.

Me? I went old arn - 30 yr old PM 1150A VS. Lovely. Modern manufacture? I can't tell you where to turn, Peter.........

The 6" quill travel is more problematic - I like it, because that means one whole damn lot less of table height adjustment. There are occasions where I need it to get the hole I require, but that is the exception.

The VS feature? Saves a lot of time getting to the best speed, and - honestly - means I am on the best speed much more often because screwing around with the belts and stacked pulleys annoys me.

[Sean Tracey]

6 inch stroke is not necessarily about drilling a deep hole. It's about being able to perform multiple operations on the same hole without having to move the table to accomodate longer tools.

[Peter Aeschliman]

> a row of holes to outline a mortise that will be cleaned up with chisels - how much wandering are you OK with?


I suppose.. although in this case, my personal preference would be to stay inside the lines because I'm going to have to come back to the base line with a chisel anyway.


> Holes for pegged joinery - how oversize/oblong can the holes be and look good to you?


I think the point here is that it's a matter of degrees and not absolutes. I would say that if you don't get a good friction fit or there are perceivable gaps, then it's a problem. Not sure how much runout would be a problem since I don't do much pegged joinery. At some point I'll get out the dial indicator and reset the taper i\on my new drill press. But I probably won't bother until I have a task that demands that level of precision... which in my case may be never.

To each his own I guess. Some guys probably need it (Pat is an obvious example). I just must not make furniture or do the type of joinery that requires it.

[Kent A Bathurst]

It does not matter to your work methods, therefore, it does not matter to your work

All good, Peter........... Cannot argue that point at all.

But - for me - it is groovy.............. :D

Regards

Kent

[pat warner]

Here's my bottomline on close order drilling.
(Has little to do with making furniture.)
*********************************************
Drilling is an important part of woodworking. Fine woodworking requires jigs & fixtures. And, unlike the metal working industry, woodworking jigs & fixtures are rarely excavated (shouldered, morticed e.g.) to accommodate the location of their components. Consequently, they are screwed together. And if you can't drill, you can't make jigs & fixtures (accurately) and your woodworking will be compromised.

[John Akerblom]

Man. Fantastic responses. Can't thank you all enough for the information. gonna try and respond to the questions most relevant to what my uses for the do is and see if that narrows the field at all.

1. I don't know shit about drill presses. All I've used are my grand uncle's 1000 yr old ShopSmith and a cheap bench top model with zero precision. I'd like to buy a new one, instead of an older used model, for the sole reason that I would have no idea how to shop for an old one, know if I was getting a good deal, or know how to clean and tune the machine to get it up to speed. Some guy on Craigslist would probably unload a heap of scrap on me for a couple hundred bucks. At least with a new drill I'd have some kind of warranty and customer service.

If if someone knows a reputable source for used/refurbished dps, that's another story, but otherwise I'm out of my depth.

2. I don't do a lot of complex joinery, but I do occasionally need to drill long, accurate holes for SS pins to hold speargun mechanisms in place in 4" plus thick hardwoods. Also, I build unorthodox furniture and sculptures and occasionally need the longer stroke, up to 5-6 inches for various purposes. However. Anything will be an upgrade, and I don't need (and can't afford, the precision of a $3000 dp.

3. I no longer care much about the table, thanks to the advice here, as long as it is flat, sturdy, and stable. I'll use aftermarket tables when I need one.

4. Thanks for the advice about speed range, didn't even realize that was an issue. The Rikon I am leaning towards has a minimum speed of 550. How big of drill bits, for hardwoods, could I use with this as the low end limit? How low of a speed do I need to use 2" to 3" Forster bits?

5. Has anyone used the new Rikon, besides the high low end speed, it is my leading contender with the $650 price tag, 6" stroke, and 1 1/5 HP. The only drill I've seen with similar specs, below $1500, is the $1400 Powermatic, which is a lot more, with the only better features being a wider speed range, bigger table, heavier machine, and yellow paint job. Granted those are all nice, but I don't know if it's worth $750, given my relatively basic needs and skill level.


Again, can't thank you enough for the info, making the jump from hand tools and hand me downs to a nice little garage shop and its a huge help for all the background info before skipping a student loan payment and buying a tool.

John

[John Akerblom]

Shit. Just looked at a drill press recommended speed chart. A minimum speed of 550 negates a lot of options. It's hard to believe none of these manufacturers could make a drill press w/ 6" quill travel, variable speed (250-3000), and minimal runout. If anyone bothered they'd corner the market!

[Jack Jackson]

I own that 20" Grizzly... I haven't measured the run out with a dial indicator but it's very small. I've used everything from 2" Forstners down to about 3/16" twist bits and it handles them all just fine. The built in light is nice... the table is a huge chunk of iron that means it doesn't move when you crank on something. In fact, the whole thing is a beast of a machine. The belts are just like all the rest - not fun to mess with but changing speeds takes about 3-4 mins, no biggie. Getting the table back to perpendicular to the quill is kind of a hassle when you have to move the table for something but not a deal breaker. I really only got one this big because I got a good deal on a new "used" model someone bought then never used. I've read other people say that Jet 17" is a no-go, just generally bad quality. Don't know anything about the Rikon.

[Earl Rumans]

Shit. Just looked at a drill press recommended speed chart. A minimum speed of 550 negates a lot of options. It's hard to believe none of these manufacturers could make a drill press w/ 6" quill travel, variable speed (250-3000), and minimal runout. If anyone bothered they'd corner the market!
Delta does. http://www.deltamachinery.com/products/drilling-boring-machines/item/18-900l

[Cary Falk]

Delta does. http://www.deltamachinery.com/products/drilling-boring-machines/item/18-900l

You didn't get the memo? Delta is all but dead. It looks like a great DP on paper and I know a few people have them but I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

[Prashun Patel]

Some things I wish I'd considered when purchasing:

- Easy to adjust and align table
- Easy to adjust quill stroke
- Easy to adjust belts

These things are hard to get aftermarket.

IMHO, hp isn't a big deal for boring. Proper bit and speed is more important.

[michael langman]

For 2000.00 you could buy a good used Bridgeport vertical milling machine. The best most versatile drill press out there.:)

[ian maybury]

Must say that i think that even in woodworking that reasonable spindle and other accuracies are important. It's not critically important (i struggled by from the late 90s on a cheap eastern press with a wobbly chuck) much of the time, but the day comes when you want to make a fixture, drill a hole accurately centered and to size, or to place a hole accurately between two lines, or to place a hole accurately offset from a line, or to place screws accurately when making a tool as below. i.e. the two stops had to be accurately placed so that it holds blades squarely.

It's always possible to a degree to work around the issues, but the problem is that it's always on the very piece that matters that they get away from you/the cards fall wrongly and the job goes pear shaped.

If this doesn't matter to you (and i'd argue that it does, even on basic woodworking - try getting a clean entry to a hole with a Forstner that's wobbling through 1/32in because of 0.015 runout at the chuck) then just scrap this thread right now - because anything goes. Why not use a hand drill?

I can't speak for the presses available in the US, but the issue on the cheap end tends to be that the quality of eastern clones is hugely unreliable. One example can be very decent indeed, the next an absolute mess. It's just in my experience not possible to buy a drill in that market off a spec sheet/brochure without testing the example you have in mind. Or playing Russian roulette on the matter. Used as Pat (or even an eastern model) can be a very decent bet for this reason.

Go more upmarket to a more powerful/heavier press and they tend to be set up for engineering needs - to get strong, heavy (more than we need), accurate and expensive, but to still have short spindle travels and the like. There's only a few with decent spindle travel in the US, even less here.

It wouldn't suit everybody (it does more than just drill holes accurately), but I plumped for a Rong Fu RF 31 mill drill clone from the UK with an XY table - after coming very close to buying a drill very similar to the Rikon mentioned earlier sold under the SIP brand in the UK. It was by then getting into significant money, so I decided to go a bit more to have light milling capability as well. Even then a lot of care is needed to get a good quality example, but i lucked out with one that actually is pretty damn accurate. Almost zero runout at the quill taper, and about 0.003in on a dowel mounted in the chuck, well over 5in of quill travel, a decent sized work envelope and an X/Y positioning table.

Magic to be able to drill a hole with a good quality brad point that's more or less right on size. Better still to be able to pop a hole in aluminium with a slightly doctored end end mill dead on a centreline that's tight enough to size that a ground dowel pin is a press fit. Even nicer to be able to mill up some T stock for T nuts for the woodworking table that's almost finished for it…..

320570

[Jim German]

For 2000.00 you could buy a good used Bridgeport vertical milling machine. The best most versatile drill press out there.:)

I was just going to post that. I picked one up a month or two ago for $1500 Not only does it have lots of quill travel, but you can also lift the table for basically any depth you might ever need. I've got a variable speed one, so it will drop down to like 40RPM or something. The table is huge, and can be precisely moved if you want to drill a row of holes. Mine also has a digital read out if you need to drill to a precise depth or precisely space holes.

Plus it can be used with end mills for cutting slots!

[Wakahisa Shinta]

I've been following this thread because I also want to upgrade my bench-top, bought-for-cheap-on-CL Ryobi. Like John, I know nothing about drill press. Cary Falk said Delta is "dead." What does "dead" mean? I've been looking at the 18-900L. It looks to be a very good DP on paper with a good number of happy users. :confused:

[ian maybury]

Just search here W - there's been several threads with quality and support problems to the fore regarding the Delta. There's seemingly good ones, and not very good ones...

[glenn bradley]

I've been following this thread because I also want to upgrade my bench-top, bought-for-cheap-on-CL Ryobi. Like John, I know nothing about drill press. Cary Falk said Delta is "dead." What does "dead" mean? I've been looking at the 18-900L. It looks to be a very good DP on paper with a good number of happy users. :confused:

The 18-900 was certainly the sweet spot for price to features and quality but, I am not sure of the situation now that Delta has gone belly up. Despite some research I have never received a satisfactory answer to just what the heck is going on with the name/brand.

The "new" Unisaw still seems to be out there with a few other items in the stable of DELTA PEC (the folks driving the "Detla" name at this point in their tragic recent history). I'm sure their hope is to lean on the near century of Delta history but, as to whether they are businessmen or tool-makers remains to be seen.

If I were them I might have tried to start cold. I'm not sure which battle will be more uphill at this point; fixing the huge black eye that "Delta" has taken by stranding decades of tool owners or trying to win new brand loyalty in this age of 96% sub-optimal offerings.

I'm a silver lining sort of guy but after watching the promising birth of Orion turn into Steel City and then watching helplessly while the founders exited (business decision or force out depending where you hear it) and the company was raced to the bottom . . . my silver lining search engine is in need of a tune-up.

[John Akerblom]

As of right now, I'm leaning towards the Grizzly 20" drill press. I'd sacrifice 1.25" of quill travel, but have a much better low-end speed for large forstner bits. 4 3/4" of quill travel would cover 95% of what I plan on using the drill press for. One of the customer service reps at Grizzly said they would measure the runout at the factory before shipment, which is at least something in terms of ensuring accuracy.

I'm going to look into the Delta 18-900, but have reservations.

[John Akerblom]

Plus, the Delta 18-900 is up over a $1000, at which point I'd probably just splurge and get the new $1400 Powermatic.

[Jack Jackson]

yeah, personally if I was going to spend more than about $800 then I'd drop the extra $400 for the Powermatic, that thing looks really nice

[Kent A Bathurst]

yeah, personally if I was going to spend more than about $800 then I'd drop the extra $400 for the Powermatic, that thing looks really nice

Yeah - - in a similar situation, me to probably. BUT - I would try to find a way to buy it from a bricks-and-mortar store with a solid history and rep. Check the runout in the store before swiping the credit card.

Plus - you have flesh-and-blood to go to if you have any problems.......... Just a bit nervous about the quality thing of the newer ChiWanEse stuff, that's all........

Or - a PM 1100/1150/1200 - for that price you can get one damn fine DP from the mid 70's - mid 80's. The golden age of USA-built PM stuff.

[pat warner]

"I was just going to post that. I picked one up a month or two ago for $1500 Not..."
**************************************************
But can you easily drill a through hole on your mill?

[Ronald Blue]

"I was just going to post that. I picked one up a month or two ago for $1500 Not..."
**************************************************
But can you easily drill a through hole on your mill?

You can easily add a secondary table just as many do on a drill press so the short answer is yes. Another feature of a Bridgeport is power feed on the quill as I recall. It's been a few years. Plus the head can be moved forward and back for special projects as well as greatly increasing the potential throat depth. Also the head can be swung around on it's base. Also the head can be angled both forward and back and rotated to the right or left. So the Bridgeport can be a very versatile tool. Not for everyone but if you stumble into one for $1500 then grab it. Even a very experienced one is better than most drill presses.

[Cary Falk]

yeah, personally if I was going to spend more than about $800 then I'd drop the extra $400 for the Powermatic, that thing looks really nice
The PM gets mixed reviews also.

[Bill Space]

Wow! Four pages of replies no one suggested Shopsmith!

I just checked one of mine and the spindle travel is only four and half inches, so if 6 inches is an absolute requirement a shopsmith would not work.

A decently functioning shopsmith can be found on craigslist for under $200 if you wait and watch.

Shopsmiths can can be used for both vertical AND horizontal boring. They are not for metal but excell with wood.

HP is either 3/4 or 1.25 HP depending on vintage. Variable speed reduction is mechanical in all but the latest model.

I could go go on and on...I do have a 20" drill press for metal, but the Shopsmith is my choice for wood.

At under $200 a used Shopsmith is almost free (compared to some of the options cited above). Don't laugh off this suggestion until you have tried one.

I really do do love my Shopsmiths for drilling and horizontal boring of wood! ( I would not consider one at the price they sell for new though, but for $100 to 200 they are a no brainier in my book)

PS... The ones I paid $200 for included bandsaws...

Bill

[John Akerblom]

Does anyone recognize this model? Current rage level is pretty high at all new offerings in this area, so trying to wade my way through the used listings.

http://palmsprings.craigslist.org/tls/5200692463.html

Also, I guess I should look into a 3phase to 1phase converter as a lot of the old powermatics for sale seem to be 3 phase.

Lastly, any and all suggestions for locations, websites, etc to buy used/refurbished/rebuild DPs would be greatly appreciated.

[John Akerblom]

Or this listing? http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/5119716680.html

I'm out of my depth here, but a cheap used machine, with precision above and beyond any new offerings would be amazing.

[Steven Wayne]

I'd call the guy with the Atlas as fast as you can. That's a great looking machine!

I have a few old American made drill presses. They are great!!

[Jim German]

+1 on jumping on the atlas.

5" stroke, American made, looks to be in great shape and $275 seems dirt cheap to me. Unless there is something major wrong with it that looks great.

[Joe Presley]

I also have the Delta 18-900L. I've had it for a couple of years and use it regularly. I initially set it up with care and waxed everything with Johnson's paste wax. It's never rusted and I've never had a problem with it. It's got a solid 3/4 hp motor that runs cool. It has a large woodworker's table and a nice fence available. I really like it and I expect it to be around for a very long time (like those 1940 drill presses). It's a great drill press. People are very easy to spend your $400 on a PM. I certainly don't see any advantages in getting involved with variable speed complexities, it's just something that will wear out before its time.

No truth to any rumors that 'Delta Machinery going out of business'. Easy enough, search Google with my quoted phrase. Think Mark Twain, some troll is just trying to win...

[glenn bradley]

No truth to any rumors that 'Delta Machinery going out of business'. Easy enough, search Google with my quoted phrase. Think Mark Twain, some troll is just trying to win...

The 18-900 is part of the limited offerings from the new Delta badge, "Delta PEC" and are being supported by them. I hope the 18-900 remains as it is still my current choice for a new DP. I wish Delta PEC the best but, need to wait a bit longer to be sure they stabilize; that's just me :). Parts and service for my existing Delta machines are non-existent as is true for the bulk of the old Delta catalog ;-( Delta has gone through many changes over the years. I think it was the fairly recent vanishing of parts and service that gave them the big black eye. I'd love to see them fight their way back.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Plus, the Delta 18-900 is up over a $1000, at which point I'd probably just splurge and get the new $1400 Powermatic.
both crapola

[Todd Brewer]

I'm curious- what operations are you guys doing in woodworking that requires drilling precision? Boring the center of turned pens? I've survived the last 10 years with a crumby bench top Jet drill drill press and didn't wish for something nicer until I needed to drill through-holes in some structural 6x6 posts for my basement renovation. My little drill press wasn't up for it, so I used it as an excuse to buy the new Jet drill press.

I haven't gotten out a dial indicator, but I'm sure it has run out. I'm sure it has something to do with the haphazard way in which in stalled the taper (needed to get to work ASAP). And it looks funky (like a drone!). Speed adjustment is pretty easy, and it has a wider speed range than the reeves drive systems like the 2x more expensive Powermatic. For the price, I'm fine with what I got. I'm not jumping for joy, and it certainly won't be the nicest tool in my shop, but I probably only use my drill press once every few months...

I'm not machining parts for an engine. So I'm really curious what ya'all are using your drill presses for in woodworking that requires so much precision and so many features.


I second this!

The internet has a way of raising expectations and setting standards far above what is required. I have fallen into that trap many times. Getting older and wiser (I hope).

[ian maybury]

:) Must say that as already posted a couple of pages back (and explained) i flat out don't. (second that)

Why make a virtue out of something that doesn't need to be?

The very last thing we and the industry need is for it to be handed the justification to sling out even more junky drill presses. Precision isn't a requirement on every hole, but a drill press is the sort of thing you should be buying once - and there's more than a few scenarios where the need (for reasonable precision) comes up. We can pretty much make holes in wood with a pointed stick if we have to, but do we really want to? We don't need micron accuracies as in some fields of engineering, but why buy a drill press at all if reasonable accuracy doesn't matter?

Making a drill with a reasonably true running spindle isn't exactly rocket science. Do you really want to live with a wobbly load of rubbish that heads off across the floor on its own when it's started up for half a lifetime for the sake of perhaps $50 or $100????

[Todd Brewer]

My issue with Delta is with rebates. Several years ago I bought the 18-900 with a $100 dollar rebate. After waiting more than 6 months with no rebate check in hand, I started emailing them. After several emails they replied in a less-than-professional-manor. They claimed all rebate checks had to be signed by the VP and due to my complaining I was moved to the front of the line, and now others would be delayed because of me. What BS! If you offer a rebate get the rebate to the customer in a reasonable time. To me that is within 8 weeks, 12 at the max. Not 6+ months later and then only because I complained.

I imagine they were being intentionally slow with hopes people will forget they have a rebate coming.

I said then and I still say, I will never buy another delta product as long as I live. There are other options available.

[John Akerblom]

Took a risk and went with a new Delta 18-900L. Home Depot is having a sale, list price only $799.

I realize there is a risk if I need parts or service, but I ran into bad reviews and warnings with every single new offering on the market, at this price, I just felt like the Delta was a good calculated risk.

Thanks again for all the advice and guidance, I'll be sure to run a review and post here if I encounter any issues with parts or customer service.

John

[Erik Manchester]

John,

I have the Steel City 20520 that I bought used a few years ago and it is almost identical to your Delta, I think that you will be very pleased with it.

[ian maybury]

You can reduce the risk considerably by physically inspecting the press before it's delivered - if it's coming from a shop or other local premises and is not sealed into a crate...

[Earl Rumans]

Took a risk and went with a new Delta 18-900L. Home Depot is having a sale, list price only $799.

I realize there is a risk if I need parts or service, but I ran into bad reviews and warnings with every single new offering on the market, at this price, I just felt like the Delta was a good calculated risk.

Thanks again for all the advice and guidance, I'll be sure to run a review and post here if I encounter any issues with parts or customer service.

John
I think you will be very happy with it. It also goes together very easily, with decent instructions. A helper is nice to have for putting the head on the pole, it's fairly heavy.

[Peter Aeschliman]

We can pretty much make holes in wood with a pointed stick if we have to, but do we really want to? We don't need micron accuracies as in some fields of engineering, but why buy a drill press at all if reasonable accuracy doesn't matter?

I hear what you're saying. The operative word in your post is "reasonable." We're of course debating degrees of accuracy, not absolute accuracy.

It's interesting to me how, in my observation, two major groups seem to exist in amongst woodworking hobbyists: those whose standard of accuracy is based on the end product and those who expect absolute precision.

Those in the latter group tend to post complaints about the accuracy of drill presses, cast iron machine tables that are .002" out of flat, etc.

IMHO, "reasonable" for a furniture piece is as a piston-fitting joint, or a joint where there are no perceivable gaps. Runout is moot if the end product is within your tolerances. Right?

My personal experience, limited to the two low end Asian import drill presses I've owned, is that both work perfectly fine and within my standard of reasonable accuracy. Hence my challenge to the group earlier in the thread. I've never taken out the dial indicator because I've never had an issue with unreasonably inaccurate holes.

Others may disagree based on their work. I think the key is that people are aware of the precision they need in the practical world, not just having it for the sake of having it.

IMHO.

[John Huds0n]

Took a risk and went with a new Delta 18-900L. Home Depot is having a sale, list price only $799.

I realize there is a risk if I need parts or service, but I ran into bad reviews and warnings with every single new offering on the market, at this price, I just felt like the Delta was a good calculated risk.

Thanks again for all the advice and guidance, I'll be sure to run a review and post here if I encounter any issues with parts or customer service.

John

Thanks for the tip :)

Fine WoodWorking rated the Delta Delta 18-900L drill press the "Best Overall" in their Oct 2015 issue. I was considering buying the Powermatic (which wasn't in the review) the next time it went on sale, but the Home Depot Sale on the Delta pushed me off the fence.

I had a 10% coupon from Lowes - so I called Customer Service and they were willing to apply it to the Drill Press, so the total out-the-door price for me was $776, and I can pick it up from my local store when it comes in. (they never even asked me for the coupon code)

[ian maybury]

Perhaps that's the difference Peter. This is long because i think the story needs setting out.

I got by with a $250 cheap Eastern drill press from the late 90s until recently, but it was cr**. It drilled holes, but was a mess and ultimately very poor economy. It caused so much hassle over the years. I can imagine that a cheap press may seem good value if you happen to get a decent one. Trouble is that tends to be a lottery - and $250 or $300 at entry level is still enough that it makes no sense to play roulette with it. People are paying more than double that (it seems to be possible to pay up to $1,000 and machines still have problems with flimsy tables and runout) with still no certainty of getting a reasonable machine. It's only necessary to scan this forum to see mixed good and bad reports. (with the same faults popping up again and again)

People time and again come on forums to ask what to buy, and get suckered into coughing up by the 'mine's great' brigade. They labouriously compare spec sheets as though they were buying a typical 100% quality consumer product - blissfully ignoring the advice of those who have found the hard way that it's often not that simple. Or recognise the risks, but plunk the money down anyway hoping they get a decent one since the alternatives are limited and take work. The cautious few head off and physically check a machine before buying.

It seems very much as though our compulsion to buy cheap and big up what we bought has resulted in a market where there is minimal pressure for quality. We're creating that reality by these actions...

My situation wasn't about tight engineering vs. reasonable woodworking tolerances. The runout was so bad that i never actually bothered to put a dial gauge on to check it - drills obviously whirled when looked at by eye alone. Probably .020in plus. The chuck was so bad that the key didn't fit properly, and it tended to slip on drills. I bought every chuck key i could get my hands on over the years, but could never find one that engaged properly in the teeth - the hole that the nose pushed into was oversize in the chuck. No point whatsoever buying a new chuck since the spindle was all over the place. (see below) It as a result of out of balance pulleys clattered and vibrated badly enough at top RPM to almost move itself across the floor. The table didn't clamp tightly enough to the column to be fully reliable in holding a position. Almost every single knob (e.g. the screws locking the belt tension adjustment) had plastic heads which broke off, and had to be replaced.

It needed great care when drilling larger holes (10mm dia in wood :rolleyes: ) as there was vertical slop in the spindle which allowed a form of chatter to get going - which apart from making a mess of a hole would at times cause the chuck to drop out of the taper. 8mm dia was about its limit in steel. The belts stretched and went beyond the range of adjustment in a year or so. The crank that adjusted the table height by turning a gear that engaged in a rack on the column broke after a year or so too because it was in a cheap plastic that went brittle - probably because it had no UV inhibitor in it. The rack that the table was adjusted up and down on was so flimsy that it bowed under the (minimal) load of the table, and had to be straightened and wired to the column.

I drilled many holes with it in wood to put in screws or whatever, there was never a problem in that regard because accuracy didn't matter. Likewise when it was a case of placing a hole in the face of a piece of ply - because it was a lightening hole or something. Against that trying to drill a clean hole in ply with a forstner caused a ragged hole entry because of the amount by which it was 'whirling'. I sometimes make a hand drill guide by putting a hole though a block of wood to clamp on if i want to place a hole square and accurately centred in say the edge of a board for a catch. Trouble is that requires placing the hole to within a small part of a mm, and the tip of e.g. a brad point was whirling by a lot more than that.

I make fixtures and stuff from especially aluminium and phenolic, and sometimes rely on e.g. dowel pins to locate parts. It's just not possible to drill a hole to an accurate or even a predictable size with a drill with lots of runout - never mind to the required size tolerance to give an interference fit so the dowel can be pressed in. It's not possible either to locate a hole centre using a known thickness slip to space the side of the drill from a fence either - a stock technique. My background is engineering, and the point is that given a machine with reasonable capability there's possibilities that open up.

i.e. there are lots of jobs where even a woodworking drill press needs reasonable accuracy.

The fundamental frustration for me is that (a) the quality of most cheap drill presses is so inconsistent - examples of the same machine can be decent, or really bad, and (b) it's all so unnecessary. It's actually as easy to make a spindle that runs reasonably accurately as it is to make one that wobbles all over the place. The wobbles follow from either a total lack of care in set up, bad tooling, or from running a worn out machine. None is the difference between a cheap press or even a moderately expensive one - the impact on cost is only incremental. It'll never happen though as long as we don't push back by refusing to buy junk.

What in heaven is the motivation that seeks to turn something so far from being acceptable into a virtue? If hand held power drills were produced at this level of quality (and some of the cheap ones are not great either - but somehow most feel able to step up to the mark and buy the better brands in this case) WW3 would break out and they would be off the market in a month...

[Mike Hollingsworth]

For Lucky Texans, Beautiful Powermatic 1150VS showed up Buy it Now today for $850. DP for a lifetime.

[John Huds0n]

I picked up my Delta 18-900L from Home Depot today and I am VERY pleased with the purchase

First impression - fit and finish is excellent. I checked the runout on the the spindle with my Betterly Una Gauge and the needle barely even moved. If I had to guess I would say it was a .0002. The runout on the chuck was also very reasonable at .002

Minor problem - the top cover had a very small crack in it at the back, I am guessing from shipping. I called the 1-800 number and spoke with customer service. They requested I take a pic of the crack along with my receipt that I then emailed to me and they responded by saying they will send me the new part

I also called tech support to ask about the spindle runout - and was speaking with a tech in less that 10 minutes.

So, at this point - very pleased with the drill press and Delta customer service. At $776 out the door and no rebates - this was a great deal

[glenn bradley]

I picked up my Delta 18-900L from Home Depot today and I am VERY pleased with the purchase

First impression - fit and finish is excellent. I checked the runout on the the spindle with my Betterly Una Gauge and the needle barely even moved. If I had to guess I would say it was a .0002. The runout on the chuck was also very reasonable at .002

Minor problem - the top cover had a very small crack in it at the back, I am guessing from shipping. I called the 1-800 number and spoke with customer service. They requested I take a pic of the crack along with my receipt that I then emailed to me and they responded by saying they will send me the new part

I also called tech support to ask about the spindle runout - and was speaking with a tech in less that 10 minutes.

So, at this point - very pleased with the drill press and Delta customer service. At $776 out the door and no rebates - this was a great deal

This is so great to hear. Sounds like the "new" folks plan to add some oomph to their reputation. That is a fantastic price as well. Congrats.

[David V Carpenter]

Hi,

I joined the forum to thank John Akerblom and the other person who's post must have gotten deleted. Like John I was waiting for the PM to go on sale but the Delta price drop, which I would not have learned except from John, caused me to take the Delta plunge. I used the Lowes 10% off idea from a following post.

For those interested, the Delta is a nice drill press. The castings are rough, (as I expected from all the comments about Chinese mfg), where it doesn't matter and the machining was very good in the areas it does matter. I measured runout with my dial indicator on the spindle piece, before I set the chuck, and it was .0005, yes 5 tenths. The runout on the outer surface of the chuck below the key insert hole was .0025, on on a drill bit it was about .0015. I did not have a machined concentric rod to chuck up to provide a better measurement. The belt changing is quite easy and while it isn't as featured or as nice as the PM, it will do for me. I would rather have the PM but with the difference in $ I bought a mobile base, a nice Wilton DP vise, and some quality drill bits from WL Fuller, and Norseman. I am still up hundreds of dollars over the PM.

For what it is worth the worst part of the entire package was the chuck key. It has the spring pin, and there is a lot of play between the teeth of the key and the chuck. It doesn't fit very well and the spring force doesn't help. The chuck is well machined and I am going to look for another key.

I would have posted earlier but I had a lot of trouble joining the forum. It took longer than when I got my security clearance 35 years ago, long since expired. I guess, like the government, Sawmill Creek had to interview all of my neighbors and former teachers. My grade school teachers are probably long gone and that was probably the hold up.