Building Permit to build a DOG HOUSE?????

[Clarence Martin]

I was told this by my Town Clerk today, that if a Dog House exceeds a certain size, it would require a BUILDING PERMIT!!!! Any truth to that???

[Jon Nuckles]

That type of requirement would almost certainly come from a local ordinance, so it is unlikely that anyone outside your town would be able to give you any advice. I'd start by looking at your town's or township's website for local codes, or go to your public library. The town clerk might be wrong, but it seems like something he or she ought to be well-versed in. Hard to imagine why they'd require a permit for a doghouse other than to generate permit fees, unless you are putting in gas or electric for heat or running water so your dog can refresh its own water bowl.

[Mike Henderson]

I imagine the code says that any structure bigger than some size requires a permit. You can bet someone will want to build a garage (or mother-in-law quarters) and call it a doghouse.

Mike

[Brian Elfert]

A dog house would probably be classified the same as a shed or accessory structure. It is common that sheds/accessory structures over 120 square feet require a building permit. Not all cities have the same size limits so check with your town.

[Randy Red Bemont]

I agree. I would check with someone else in town hall to see what the square footage requirement is. Myself, I would just go ahead and build the dog house. Where I live anything under 144 square feet does not need a permit.

Red

[William Adams]

Another consideration is if it's movable, or on a foundation.

[Jerome Stanek]

I have a 1600 sq ft dog house I'm always in

[Rich Engelhardt]

I have a 1600 sq ft dog house I'm always in

:D - You too eh?

RE: OP - yeah, things like that are common.
Check you local codes & also check your HOA if that applies.

The HOA can be a real pain about things like that.

[Robert Engel]

Building codes and most all permits are revenue sources.
The insurance companies are the ones who should be inspecting, not the government.

In my area you can't even build a 4x4 pumphouse without a permit.

Just another example why we are not the home of the free anymore.

[Fred Perreault]

The town Building Inspector or Building Commissioner, along with the town zoning by-laws would fully spell out what triggers a permit, setback distances from front, rear and side lines, building height and what form of documents/engineering are needed for any structure... be it habitable or not, or as an accessory structure, or whether it will have electricity, water, heat, septic etc. It's all in the municipal by-laws. In our town, an accessory structure (shed) with no services can be built as close to the lot line as the shed's height, not exceeding 120 ft. sq. in size, and the permit can be had for a $10 fee and only a sketch drawn by the homeowner showing size and location/offsets. It can be on piers or blocks, but requires an inspection and proof of offset distances before a Certificate of Compliance is rendered. Contrast all of that with a structure that requires a minimum of engineered documents, septic permit, electrical permit, municipal water connection permit, frost proof (or seismic) foundation, numerous inspections for additional fees, etc, etc.

[glenn bradley]

I imagine the code says that any structure bigger than some size requires a permit. You can bet someone will want to build a garage (or mother-in-law quarters) and call it a doghouse.

Mike

Bingo. Another rule put in place to use in case of knuckleheads.

[John A langley]

building permits are there for revenue, As probably stated also to protect us from unscrupulous contractors and homeowners who will cut corners .have a good example The state Attorney General build a large pole barn which requires minimal building permit and then proceeded to build a house inside the barn without a permit. This is a fine example of our government at work

[Art Mann]

If a pole barn is an acceptable structure for a particular location, what difference does it make what is inside? I have an acquaintance who built a house inside half of a giant military surplus quonset hut. The other half was where he kept his tractor and farm implements.

[Brian Elfert]

House generally require permits. Accessory structures and houses often have different requirements for setbacks and so on.

[Dave Anderson NH]

As stated before, building permits are a protection against shoddy contractors. They also are a protection against unqualified homeowners metaphorically shooting themselves in the foot because of a lack of knowledge and/or construction and design skills. Remember that not everyone understands proper building technique or has the skills to execute. Competent building inspectors often find structural deficiencies and electrical and plumbing defects are even more common. As a layman, try reading the electrical code some time. 'Nuf said.

[Bob Cumming]

This is the kind of that is designed to keep dogs from opening small home-based businesses, and local revenue streams active. Ask your zoning guru where you apply for a peaceful demonstration permit? While waiting for an answer, build the dog house. The worst that can happen is that following losing the lawsuit brought by the city, having your marriage go up in smoke, losing all your worldly possessions including children under 18 being taken from you and placed in foster care in Sumatra, you'll be taken to the city's motor pool storage area where you'll be tied and fitted with a blindfold then shot but only wounded by the zoning department's chief clerk.

[Mel Fulks]

Bob, you summed that up well. But you missed the fact that many in the "small house movement" disguise their homes as dog houses.

[Mike Henderson]

As stated before, building permits are a protection against shoddy contractors. They also are a protection against unqualified homeowners metaphorically shooting themselves in the foot because of a lack of knowledge and/or construction and design skills. Remember that not everyone understands proper building technique or has the skills to execute. Competent building inspectors often find structural deficiencies and electrical and plumbing defects are even more common. As a layman, try reading the electrical code some time. 'Nuf said.

I would add to Dave's comment that building permits also protect the eventual buyer of the house. If there were no building permits, every buyer would have to have a complete inspection of the house - the foundation, the structure, the roof, the electrical, the plumbing, etc. before buying. If the buyer knows that work was performed under a permit and inspected, s/he has some assurances that the work was done to some minimum level (code is the minimum you can get away with, not necessarily the best level).

Mike

[John A langley]

Art there are Living quarters built in pole barns around here all time that was not the point he tried to get away without having a permit And he enforces our state laws and Dave said it better

[Brian Henderson]

:D - You too eh?

RE: OP - yeah, things like that are common.
Check you local codes & also check your HOA if that applies.

The HOA can be a real pain about things like that.

That's why you don't ever live anywhere with a HOA.

[Lee Schierer]

Building permits also are used to update the tax appraisals so that you and your neighbors pay appropriate taxes based on improvements to the property. They are also to protect your property from some shoddy construction against your property line that endangers your property or that affects your property values.

[Frederick Skelly]

I imagine the code says that any structure bigger than some size requires a permit. You can bet someone will want to build a garage (or mother-in-law quarters) and call it a doghouse.

Mike

I agree with this point (see example below) and most of the other points made in this thread.

Example: Google "Tiny Houses". This is a recent fad where folks build really small living quarters - the size of a shed (10' x 12') or less. They can be built on blocks, a concrete pad or on a trailer. They certainly didn't write your village code with those in mind, but it's a case in point I think.

[Clarence Martin]

I got a hold of the Building Inspector . Told him exactly what was said to me in regards to the permit for a Dog House..

Guess what he said....................


HE LAUGHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He told me that in NO WAY!!! would he EVER require someone to get a Building Permit for a Dog House!!
So, if I want build my new Dog a Dog House with heat, central AC, plumbing for his water bowl and Electric for lights and a radio or a TV, I DON"T NEED A BUILDING PERMIT.

BECAUSE....


It's a Dog House !!!:)

[Larry Edgerton]

Congratulations on living in an area with reason. Don't try that in NYC, My friend just finished a job out there and just the permits were over 150K! On a house! A big house but come on?

I deal with building departments every day, and some are reasonable, and some are not. They can add unnecessary cost to a project easily if they are in a bad mood.

Codes are not all a good thing. many of them are just plain bad science lobbied for by some sleazebag in DC that want to sell a product. One example is the window wrap that is national code. It is not part of an integrated moisture control system, just a code that was lobbied for by manufacturers. So what happens is instead of keeping water out it keeps water vapor in, collecting on the back side and causing rot that would not have been there otherwise. It is a product that is not necessary in a properly constructed home. There are many such examples such as this. In the 60"s they required that if you had electric heat you had to insulate between the joists and cover with plastic on the bottom side. What this meant is that in the seventies people were falling through their floors, because they had followed code.

Most locations follow the national Boca code. This is a code that was come up with in DC to serve the whole country. The problem is the whole country is not in the same climate so needs are different, especially in regards to insulation/ventilation. Even in one state needs are different. Take my state, in the upper peninsula they can get 200 inches of snow,, and it stays on the roof all winter. But in southern Michigan they get a lot less snow and it melts through the winter. This changes roof loading and it changes ventilation needs. Obviously downstate has to deal with more water vapor, and then little things like venting of the cold side of the roof has to be different. How good are ridge vent going to be with two feet of snow on them?

Not saying a code system is a bad thing, there are indeed unscrupulous builders out there, but just because something is in the code book do not assume it is the gods truth.

I gave my local building department a list of code that I have no intention of following on my own house, and as luck would have it the inspector at the time was a builder/retired and agreed saying he would not do those things on his own house either and giving me a green sticker. It could have gone the other way, but I was prepared to lawyer up if need be.

Larry

[Myk Rian]

If you were to travel north on I-75, near Wolverine, Mi., you will find "Rays Doghouse" at the 298 mile marker. It's been there for many years.
Satellite and local TV. What more could you ask for. I don't believe he needed a permit to build it.
On the side it says,
Obey Wife or live here. Rays doghouse.

320605

[Larry Edgerton]

I live about 5 miles as the crow flies from that Myk.

[Myk Rian]

For some reason I placed you N.W. of Indian River.

[Malcolm McLeod]

I remember a story about a law still on the books in Atlanta. It is illegal to keep a mule on the 2nd floor in that fine city.

Your natural tendency is to assume the city council lost it's collective mind immediately before a stated meeting and passed this ordinance. But if for a second you assume they were NOT crazy, then it begs the question of why they enacted this... Perhaps mules on the 2nd floor posed a problem?? We may never know what it was, but I bet it is a h#!! of a story.


Most (but not all) laws, permits, building codes, and even HOA rules, aren't driven by idiots on a crusade, or even greedy manufacturers. They are just people's attempts to address a problem.

[Bert Kemp]

When HOA's tell Veterans they can't fly an American flag from their home or tell parents they can't paint the kids swingset in the back yrd the color the kids want , or a disabled vet is threatened with jail time because he built a wheel chair ramp so he could get in and out of his home, then yes these people are idiots and theres nothing you could say to convince me otherwise.They should outlaw HOA's. and jail the idiots that run them.:D

[Malcolm McLeod]

When HOA's tell ....They should outlaw HOA's. and jail the idiots that run them.:D

Bert,
Veterans are our national treasure and my hat's off to all who serve. Assume from your avatar, that this includes you. Thank you!

(My dad had 20 years in single-seat fighters, but Jimmy Carter declined my offer to serve.)

And you are so right about HOAs. My neighbors asked and elected me to represent them on our HOA board of directors. I reluctantly agreed. As did 2 of my neighbors and friends. I am asked to commit atrocities such as paying our bills, managing our common areas, and occasionally reminding the lazy builder to mow his vacant lot. Our board meetings are at midnight over a bubbling caldron, deciding which children to sell into slavery. We are just pure evil! ...I'll report to jail immediately.

I do have to pose a question tho' ... Are only veterans allowed to agree to the (HOA) rules they live by and then pick the ones to ignore? Or can active duty personnel do this with the US Military Code of Conduct?

And again, THANK YOU for your service!

[Dan Mages]

Of course it does! How else will the government protect the civil rights of dogs? After all, don't they know more about how we should live our lives than us? :rolleyes:

[Brian Elfert]

Bert,I do have to pose a question tho' ... Are only veterans allowed to agree to the (HOA) rules they live by and then pick the ones to ignore? Or can active duty personnel do this with the US Military Code of Conduct?

I thought you entirely missed the poster's point. Why do some HOAs have rules against flying the American Flag or against building a handicapped ramp? Are there really homeowners who don't want American flags being displayed so some HOAs have rules against it? Are you expected to sell your house and move if you become disabled and need a wheelchair? Wheelchair ramps don't always look the best, but nice ones that are barely noticeable are possible.

I made darn sure not to buy any house with an HOA and also made sure that the property didn't have any covenants or deed restrictions. It is very common in my area for subdivisions created in the 90s and later to have deed restrictions or covenants that restrict what you can do with your property.

[Malcolm McLeod]

...I made darn sure not to buy any house with an HOA and also made sure that the property didn't have any covenants or deed restrictions....

Well said! Caveat emptor.

[Mike Henderson]

When HOA's tell Veterans they can't fly an American flag from their home or tell parents they can't paint the kids swingset in the back yrd the color the kids want , or a disabled vet is threatened with jail time because he built a wheel chair ramp so he could get in and out of his home, then yes these people are idiots and theres nothing you could say to convince me otherwise.They should outlaw HOA's. and jail the idiots that run them.:D
I'm pretty sure that an HOA cannot refuse to allow a disabled ramp on a home. That would fall under the Americans with Disabilities Act. An HOA might try, but if the need is genuine they would lose in court (and pay attorney's fees).

Regarding flying flags (any flags): If it was prohibited by the covenants when you moved in, you don't get to ignore the covenants later, even if you're a veteran. The rules apply to all.

The main thing is: Read the CC&Rs before you buy. You're going to be bound by them during your residency. If you don't like the CC&Rs, don't buy.

Mike

[Malcolm McLeod]

I'm pretty sure that an HOA cannot refuse to allow a disabled ramp on a home.

Mike

HOA can't jail you either, but if you repeat the 'evil-ness' myth often enough, it becomes the HOA's fault. Not the fault of the member who didn't read the By-Laws (or ignored them.)

Personal responsibility is dying a slow, noisy, and litigious death. (...Kind of like the YS debate?)

By the way, our HOA will write you an exemption for a flag pole. All you have to do is ask.

[Art Mann]

When HOA's tell Veterans they can't fly an American flag from their home or tell parents they can't paint the kids swingset in the back yrd the color the kids want , or a disabled vet is threatened with jail time because he built a wheel chair ramp so he could get in and out of his home, then yes these people are idiots and theres nothing you could say to convince me otherwise.They should outlaw HOA's. and jail the idiots that run them.:D

While I would never live in a neighborhood with a HOA, I have a good friend who sought out a neighborhood like that. He wants to live in a place where all the houses look the same. He believes it will protect the appearance of the neighborhood and property values. I am 100% against people violating the HOA, even if it bans raising the US flag or painting a swing set an unapproved color. Every homeowner in his neighborhood was briefed about the rules and regulations ahead of time and signed an agreement to abide by them. Someone who violates the rules is violating the rights of someone like my friend to live in an environment he paid extra for.

[Brian Elfert]

I understand why HOAs exist and why some homeowners like them. I also understand that you have to obey the rules if you are in a HOA. I just fail to understand why homeowners would be so against flags that HOAs would enact rules stating you can't display an American flag?

I do wonder how many homeowners have been forced to sell or forced into foreclosure from an HOA forcing them to make home repairs they couldn't afford? A former co-worker owns a condo. The condo board decided to replace all the windows and his portion was $8,000. He could afford it, but the condos are only valued around $60,000 and I bet some didn't have the money.

[Malcolm McLeod]

...enact rules stating you can't display an American flag?

Brian,
I can give you facts as they apply to me and my perspective only.

Most HOA By-Laws are 'boiler plate' legal-eze, especially as it applies to a single family dwelling. Most by-laws restrict "flags/banners/signs".

If 1 is OK, then 2, or eleventy-seven. That MUST be OK as well! Ask yourself how any of it can go wrong. Because sooner or later someone, somewhere, will abuse it (kind of like a mule on the 2nd floor). So it becomes all inclusive.

Do you want to try selling your house when the guy next door paints his house camo-pink, and flags it to look like a used car lot, all to attract attention to his new bail bond business on the front porch?

Its like anything else, some people have to push the envelope until it breaks.

Disengaging now.

[Brian Elfert]

Why couldn't the flag rule have an exception to allow the display of ONE American flag? Limit the size of the flag if someone is worried about a Perkins sized flag at a house.

[Mike Henderson]

Why couldn't the flag rule have an exception to allow the display of ONE American flag? Limit the size of the flag if someone is worried about a Perkins sized flag at a house.

The CC&Rs can be changed by a vote of the homeowners. But some HOA's will give an variance if you ask for it.

The problem is that some people won't go through the process. They feel that the rules shouldn't apply to them and they put up a flagpole and flag without asking for permission. In those cases, the HOA will usually assess fines which will become a lien on the property and will have to be paid off when the house is sold. In more extreme cases, the HOA will bring suit and the homeowner will usually lose and have to pay the fines, plus the HOAs attorney's cost.

It all gets to the situation of those people who don't want to live by the CC&Rs that they agreed to when they bought the property.

Mike

[Brian Elfert]

My question is still why the heck do HOAs disallow the display of the American flag in the first place? Are homeowners that anal about all the homes looking the same that they don't want their neighbors displaying an American flag?

I understand that HOAs don't want houses to look like used car dealers with banners and all that.

[Malcolm McLeod]

My question is still why the heck do HOAs disallow the display of the American flag in the first place? Are homeowners that anal about all the homes looking the same that they don't want their neighbors displaying an American flag?

I understand that HOAs don't want houses to look like used car dealers with banners and all that.

Last one ...I promise. And this one is purely out of respect for my father.

Because we all suffer from a failure of imagination. "Allowed: 1 American flag with maximum flat dimensions no more than 2'x3' on a pole maximum 15' above ground level & 3" diameter."

Can it be displayed at night? It has to be lit or its disrespectful and the east neighbor refuses to allow such denigration.
So light? And the west neighbor files suit because it shines in his window.
Re-aim the light? Now its north guy.
Is the light burned-out?
How long?
Is it faded?
How faded?
Is it tattered?
How tattered?
Does the cable bang in the wind?
How loud?
Is it the current flag?
Or a historical one?
Hey the pole fell, when are you gonna make him fix that?
Hey he didn't polish the brass eagle while it was down, when is he?
Hey eagles are endangered and I'm a PETA member, can you make him take it down?
Is it the disabled veteran's flag?
Surely he can add the USMC banner, and the state, and Scotland, and...?
But he can't take them down at night now (wheelchair), so is it tattered (begin circular logic)....?

And I'm neither a lawyer nor a flag expert, so I'll let you continue the list. Perhaps someone will draft the new By-Law clause to make this easily enforceable by the evil HOA (aka Joe next door).

Oh, and let's not forget the neighborhood can dissolve the HOA after a specified number of years.

[Clarence Martin]

So, in other words, even after you have paid off your Mortgage after 30 years and have your property taxes all up to date, and paid your Homeowner's Insurance; when it comes to HOA , the property owner really doesn't own their Home ! The HOA can still come in and tell John and Mary Doe that they have to live by rules that were formed by a group of busy bodies that have nothing better to do with themselves ? They go around telling people how to live , how to keep their property up, telling them what colors and what they can and cannot have on property that the Homeowner bought 30 years ago ?


It reminds me of those Historical Preservation groups that tell people what color paint they can paint their house. When those groups pay for the property taxes, the Mortgages and the repairs and Utilities on those Houses, THEN !! they can tell the Owners what to do.

[Art Mann]

As someone already mentioned, rules can be changed and variances can be allowed. The answer to your question is no, the homeowner does not have complete control of his property. He surrendered that when he signed an agreement to obey the rules in the HOA. Are you saying his neighbor's rights expire after 20 or 30 years? Why should he be allowed out of his obligation just because he paid his property tax or his mortgage? A HOA is a binding contract.

[Clarence Martin]

As someone already mentioned, rules can be changed and variances can be allowed. The answer to your question is no, the homeowner does not have complete control of his property. He surrendered that when he signed an agreement to obey the rules in the HOA. Are you saying his neighbor's rights expire after 20 or 30 years? Why should he be allowed out of his obligation just because he paid his property tax or his mortgage? A HOA is a binding contract.

Yes, I understand that, But, what if the homeowner refused to join the HOA to begin with ? Can a HOA FORCE a property owner to join the HOA as a condition of buying their house ? If they can , it sure doesn't seem right for them to be able to do that.

[Brian Elfert]

I'm pretty sure HOAs are written into the deed. I'm seen some associations and deed restrictions that expire 20 or 30 years from the original date the development was first started.

[Mike Henderson]

Yes, I understand that, But, what if the homeowner refused to join the HOA to begin with ? Can a HOA FORCE a property owner to join the HOA as a condition of buying their house ? If they can , it sure doesn't seem right for them to be able to do that.

You don't have a choice about being bound by the CC&Rs. Whether you join the HOA or not, the CC&Rs still apply to you. They apply to you because you bought the property - you can think of them as being part of the property. The HOA enforces the CC&Rs and whether you join the HOA or not makes no difference. They will still enforce the CC&Rs.

Brian mentioned that some subdivisions have sunset provisions on the CC&Rs. However, often those sunset provisions have clauses that require the homeowners to take some action - like a vote - or the CC&Rs renew for another term. It all depends on how the CC&Rs are written. CC&Rs are a contract between the homeowners and just about anything can be in the contract. Whether you like them or not, you agreed to them when you bought the property - they pass with the deed.

Whether you have a loan on the property or not, whether you paid your property taxes or not, none of those things affect the CC&Rs. If they did, someone could pay cash for their house and paint it purple. If you don't like CC&Rs, or the specific CC&Rs on a piece of property, don't buy it. Go find a house in a location without any CC&Rs, or a set of CC&Rs that you can live with. Once you buy the property you will be expected to live up to the restrictions in the CC&Rs.

Mike

[Myk Rian]

My question is still why the heck do HOAs disallow the display of the American flag in the first place? Are homeowners that anal about all the homes looking the same that they don't want their neighbors displaying an American flag?

I understand that HOAs don't want houses to look like used car dealers with banners and all that.
You can't lump all HOAs into one group, because they are individual, and unique to themselves.
Keep that in mind when bashing them as one group.

I have been a board member of our HOA for 35 years. Many comments in this thread are (Admin Edit), and I shouldn't be sent to jail. (That was one comment)
The only 3 major restrictions we have are no fences, no sheds larger than 12'x12', and garages must be attached to the home. Our main function is to keep the streets plowed and repaired, have the park and beach areas mowed, and take care of whatever else needs doing.

If someone doesn't like the rules set forth by their HOA, they are free to join the board and try to elicit change.
Time to move on.

[Brian Elfert]

I have been a board member of our HOA for 35 years. Many comments in this thread are (Admin Edit), and I shouldn't be sent to jail. (That was one comment)
The only 3 major restrictions we have are no fences, no sheds larger than 12'x12', and garages must be attached to the home. Our main function is to keep the streets plowed and repaired, have the park and beach areas mowed, and take care of whatever else needs doing.

Does your HOA restrict colors house can be painted or what type of landscaping can be installed? Would a new house or an addition need an architectural review? I know both of these are reasons people don't like HOAs.


If someone doesn't like the rules set forth by their HOA, they are free to join the board and try to elicit change.
Time to move on.

A lot of times the restrictions are written into the deed so joining the board won't help. Your no fences and no detached garages would be no go issues for many potential owners.

Most of the lots in my area are 2 acres or more. Many of the subdivisions have deed restrictions that basically mean the only thing you can build on those two acre lots is a house. You can't park an RV outside and you can't build an accessory structure so you couldn't build a garage to store an RV. The ability to build a garage big enough to store an RV is one of the main reasons I moved out where I live now.