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cody michael
08-28-2015, 9:03 AM
I have seen people use bandsaw mills, but chainsaw mills seem a lot cheaper, how do they compare?

If you use a chainsaw mill and have a 10ft long tree say 26 inches round how long does it take to have a stack of boards?

how much wood do you lose to the wider kerf of the saw?

Charles Randal Smith
08-28-2015, 11:20 PM
It is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. They both give you flat lumber, but do so with markedly different costs and efficiencies.

If you have only an occasional tree to mill, then a chainsaw mill is a great solution. It may not give a thickness of cut that is quite as consistent or may not yield as good a surface as with a bandsaw mill, but it is nevertheless quite acceptable. And with experience, these issues become negligible.

From your example, I am not certain if you are referencing a log 26 inches in diameter or one with a circumference of 26 inches, which would be about 8 ž inches in diameter.

The length of time it takes to mill a log is, of course, dependent on the number of cuts you are going to take (i.e., the board thickness), the length and diameter of the log, and the type of wood, among other factors. With a chainsaw mill, you may go through 1 or 2 feet of log length a minute for smaller logs, and up to several minutes per foot for massive logs. Remember that the length of time to take a cut with a bandsaw mill or a chainsaw mill is only a part of the overall amount of time it takes to mill a log. Setup time, moving the log, adjusting the mill, and stacking the boards are only some of the activities which also burn up time.

The biggest cost in a chainsaw mill is the powerhead (i.e., the chainsaw’s motor), if you do not already own one. You will need a good-sized powerhead if you are cutting a 26 inch diameter log. A small log (under 16 or 18 inches diameter) can be well handled by a powerhead of 50 or 60 ccs, give or take. A 26 inch diameter log needs a much larger chainsaw motor (think closer to 85 ccs). And when you get into the larger logs, this is a two-person operation.

When using a chainsaw mill with a rip chain, your kerf is ž inches, as compared to a bandsaw mill which typically has a 1/8 inch kerf. Hence, your waste is somewhat greater.

There is one situation wherein a chainsaw mill is clearly superior to a bandsaw mill (besides being a fraction of the cost of an entry-level bandsaw mill). Bandsaw mills have an upper limit of the width which they can cut. That is often in the range of 26 to 28 inches, which means the largest log you can possible mill on a bandsaw mill is an absolute maximum of 36 inches (which generates a cant about 26 inches square). However a chainsaw mill with a huge motor can handle a bar length of 48 or even 60 inches, thus allowing you to (slowly!) mill logs which are beyond the capacity of a more expensive bandsaw mill.

A second advantage to a chainsaw mill is that it can get into loci that are inaccessible to a bandsaw mill. For example, if you have a large log to be milled in someone’s back yard, removing an intact log from a fenced-in yard may be difficult or impossible because of limited access to the location. But you can carry a chainsaw mill into a back yard and come out with beautiful boards or slabs that one person (or perhaps two) can easily carry.

It is important to keep in mind that sometimes it is not a question of chainsaw versus bandsaw mill. Both are needed on occasion. Full disclosure: I have a Wood-Mizer bandsaw mill that cost a bit under $40,000, and for occasional use, I employ the Granberg Alaskan chainsaw mill with 48 inch bar that cost about 5% of the bandsaw mill. But for my next big log that is waiting to be milled (Black Walnut 15 feet long and 35-40 inches diameter) I need my chainsaw mill as it is too big for my Wood-Mizer.

Regardless of which way you go, you will discover the joy of opening a log and seeing incredibly beautiful grain patterns. A significant benefit of milling your own logs is that you have some control over how well the grain is shown.

Charles

Scott T Smith
08-29-2015, 6:01 AM
It is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. They both give you flat lumber, but do so with markedly different costs and efficiencies.

If you have only an occasional tree to mill, then a chainsaw mill is a great solution. It may not give a thickness of cut that is quite as consistent or may not yield as good a surface as with a bandsaw mill, but it is nevertheless quite acceptable. And with experience, these issues become negligible.

From your example, I am not certain if you are referencing a log 26 inches in diameter or one with a circumference of 26 inches, which would be about 8 ž inches in diameter.

The length of time it takes to mill a log is, of course, dependent on the number of cuts you are going to take (i.e., the board thickness), the length and diameter of the log, and the type of wood, among other factors. With a chainsaw mill, you may go through 1 or 2 feet of log length a minute for smaller logs, and up to several minutes per foot for massive logs. Remember that the length of time to take a cut with a bandsaw mill or a chainsaw mill is only a part of the overall amount of time it takes to mill a log. Setup time, moving the log, adjusting the mill, and stacking the boards are only some of the activities which also burn up time.

The biggest cost in a chainsaw mill is the powerhead (i.e., the chainsaw’s motor), if you do not already own one. You will need a good-sized powerhead if you are cutting a 26 inch diameter log. A small log (under 16 or 18 inches diameter) can be well handled by a powerhead of 50 or 60 ccs, give or take. A 26 inch diameter log needs a much larger chainsaw motor (think closer to 85 ccs). And when you get into the larger logs, this is a two-person operation.

When using a chainsaw mill with a rip chain, your kerf is ž inches, as compared to a bandsaw mill which typically has a 1/8 inch kerf. Hence, your waste is somewhat greater.

There is one situation wherein a chainsaw mill is clearly superior to a bandsaw mill (besides being a fraction of the cost of an entry-level bandsaw mill). Bandsaw mills have an upper limit of the width which they can cut. That is often in the range of 26 to 28 inches, which means the largest log you can possible mill on a bandsaw mill is an absolute maximum of 36 inches (which generates a cant about 26 inches square). However a chainsaw mill with a huge motor can handle a bar length of 48 or even 60 inches, thus allowing you to (slowly!) mill logs which are beyond the capacity of a more expensive bandsaw mill.

A second advantage to a chainsaw mill is that it can get into loci that are inaccessible to a bandsaw mill. For example, if you have a large log to be milled in someone’s back yard, removing an intact log from a fenced-in yard may be difficult or impossible because of limited access to the location. But you can carry a chainsaw mill into a back yard and come out with beautiful boards or slabs that one person (or perhaps two) can easily carry.

It is important to keep in mind that sometimes it is not a question of chainsaw versus bandsaw mill. Both are needed on occasion. Full disclosure: I have a Wood-Mizer bandsaw mill that cost a bit under $40,000, and for occasional use, I employ the Granberg Alaskan chainsaw mill with 48 inch bar that cost about 5% of the bandsaw mill. But for my next big log that is waiting to be milled (Black Walnut 15 feet long and 35-40 inches diameter) I need my chainsaw mill as it is too big for my Wood-Mizer.

Regardless of which way you go, you will discover the joy of opening a log and seeing incredibly beautiful grain patterns. A significant benefit of milling your own logs is that you have some control over how well the grain is shown.

Charles

EXCELLENT answer Charles! Thank you for joining into the conversation. Welcome to the Creek and what a great first post!

Scott

cody michael
08-29-2015, 9:00 AM
Thanks, I had someone mill a walnut at my house with a woodmizer and was super jealous, this last weekend I had a bunch of maple from a storm I could have had if I had a mill. Right now anything is out of my price range but a chainsaw mill is something I might be able to afford, where a 40k bandsaw mill is definitely out of reach. Thanks for you very clear response, I was saying 26 inch diameter...

Art Mann
08-29-2015, 11:15 AM
Warning! Trees that are salvaged from a strong storm or tornado may be unusable. In 2011, a series of strong tornadoes ripped through North Alabama and destroyed hundreds of houses and downed thousands of big hardwood trees. Some took days to remove from the roads. I talked to my local sawmill operator later about all the beautiful logs that were available from that disaster. He told me he tried to salvage a few that looked beautiful and showed no signs of damage. He discovered that internal stresses created by the powerful winds had destroyed the wood structure. Lumber cut from those logs looked perfectly good when milled but split and even shredded as they were kiln dried or worked in a shop. He said to look for evidence of twisting of the tree and leave those trees where they fell.

John TenEyck
08-29-2015, 7:21 PM
I use an 85 cc saw with 42" bar on my home built mill. I can mill logs up to about 33". It takes all day to mill two large logs. The saw costs around $1200 new today. I probably have about $2500 total invested in the saw and mill and accessories. I've milled over 4000bf of lumber with it and my prior Alaska mill. If you want mill on the cheap a chainsaw and Alaska mill is the lowest cost option.

John

Charles Randal Smith
08-29-2015, 10:57 PM
Art, your note explains why I have had some failures when I milled windfalls and found the trunk bore major fractures internally while manifesting a largely-intact exterior.

John, I would be interested in knowing more about the design/construction of your home-built chainsaw mill.

Scott and Cody, thank you for your kind replies. I must apologize to you as I may have misled you in terms of the cost of a bandsaw mill.

Please do not think that a bandsaw mill must cost $40K. Indeed, that is perhaps in the middle of the price range, which varies from entry-level machines at about $10K, to commercial rigs that approach six figures. My mill is perhaps at the upper end of what a person would pay if they wanted something for hobbyist or occasional use. But there are lots of folks who use my model of sawmill on a daily basis for their income, so it is a capable workhorse.

The entry level bandsaw mills will mill the same logs as mine, generating the same lumber as mine. The difference is all the other stuff that makes life easier. (Parenthetically, for a 65-year old geezer like me, that is what makes milling possible.) The more expensive bandsaw mills give you a larger motor, portability, hydraulics for lifting and turning logs, computer control of milling head, etc.

If you are seeking a low-cost bandsaw mill, there are a couple of other options. One is a kit (of which I have no experience). As well, used sawmills are available, some with few hours on their clock. I have seen them on the usual websites (e.g., CL, Kijiji) as well as on a dedicated website which serves as a used sawmill exchange.

Finally, if you do have just an occasional log, you might find a sawyer in your area who is willing to mill your logs in exchange for splitting the lumber, usually 50/50, rather than paying for the sawmill per hour or per board foot. This is a reasonable exchange, as most logs have a value of less than $1 per bd ft, and custom milling for such logs can cost almost as much per board foot as the log is worth. Hence, the log’s owner and the sawyer split the costs by splitting the lumber. I know that some hobbyists or occasional sawyers will consider doing this. If you lived close to me (Toronto area), I’d be willing to do so.

Charles

Danny Hamsley
08-30-2015, 11:47 AM
The Woodmizer manual bandmill, the LT15 with the 25 HP motor and a power feed is a fine set-up for less than $10,000. You can buy one used for half that. I milled about 80,000 BF on one.

So, if you will be milling on more than the odd one-time-a-year basis, and will be sawing logs fairly frequently, one of these lower cost bandmills is superior to a chainsaw mill.

One other thought. By the time that you spend $2500 - $3000 in a good chainsaw mill set-up, for about 2x that, you can have a bandmill that will out-produce a chainsaw mill 3:1. However, the only way that makes sense is if you will be milling more frequently instead of much less frequently.

You do need to think ahead.

Scott T Smith
08-30-2015, 8:24 PM
Warning! Trees that are salvaged from a strong storm or tornado may be unusable. In 2011, a series of strong tornadoes ripped through North Alabama and destroyed hundreds of houses and downed thousands of big hardwood trees. Some took days to remove from the roads. I talked to my local sawmill operator later about all the beautiful logs that were available from that disaster. He told me he tried to salvage a few that looked beautiful and showed no signs of damage. He discovered that internal stresses created by the powerful winds had destroyed the wood structure. Lumber cut from those logs looked perfectly good when milled but split and even shredded as they were kiln dried or worked in a shop. He said to look for evidence of twisting of the tree and leave those trees where they fell.

Art, that's referred to as "wind shake" and it is commonly found in trees that were sheared off and left a root ball still embedded in the ground.

Trees that have been uprooted usually don't have shake if the root ball is still attached.

Scott T Smith
08-30-2015, 8:32 PM
Scott and Cody, thank you for your kind replies. I must apologize to you as I may have misled you in terms of the cost of a bandsaw

Charles

Charles, no apology needed. I am well versed with the costs as I own a Baker 3638D band mill along with a Peterson WPF Swing-blade mill and a dedicated slabbing mill.

When you get a chance please fill out the sawyers introduction thread and let us know about your equipment and background. Thanks!

Jack Lilley
08-31-2015, 1:38 PM
The reviews are quite good for the Harbor Freight bandsaw mill and you can get it on sale for around $2000. It may be worth checking out.

cody michael
08-31-2015, 10:54 PM
The reviews are quite good for the Harbor Freight bandsaw mill and you can get it on sale for around $2000. It may be worth checking out.

I have seen that one, and it has actually went in sale cheaper, but it is limited to a 20 inch log, is that a big issue for normal use? That seems like a small log.

John Fairbairn III
09-01-2015, 1:04 PM
It seems to me that a 20" capacity will be extremely limiting. I know for us, we have a 30" and that will be too small sometimes because every knob, piece of bark, or slight curve on a big log can cause a problem. 20" may be better than nothing, but I would try to find a used one. they are hard to find - but they are out there.

Jared Sankovich
09-01-2015, 2:09 PM
It seems to me that a 20" capacity will be extremely limiting. I know for us, we have a 30" and that will be too small sometimes because every knob, piece of bark, or slight curve on a big log can cause a problem. 20" may be better than nothing, but I would try to find a used one. they are hard to find - but they are out there.



The HF is the same as the woodland HM126 mill. The HF has a 26" log capacity. 20" capacity is referring to the widest board you can cut.

John TenEyck
09-02-2015, 12:02 PM
Here's a picture of my chainsaw mill with about the largest log I've ever milled on it. We par buckled it up the ramps to get it on the bunks. It's over 33" diameter, with a couple protrusions I had to cut off for the mill to roll past it.

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The base of the mill is just some 4 x 4's that I shim to get all in the same plane. On top are more 4 x 4's on which aluminum angles sit for the mill to roll on. The bunks are a couple of 6 x 6 pieces. It all just screws together so it can be set up/taken down for storage or to take the mill to the work. Where it now is is in my driveway.

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Here's a better shot of the mill, in a different location milling a smaller log. It's made from 1" steel tubing so that it's light and portable. I copied the design from various pics. I saw on the web. I bought the tubing and other steel parts, cut to length, from a local Metal Supermarkets store, and welded it together myself. The box casters I bought on the net somewhere, same for the sprockets and chain. All in I have about $350 in it. The aluminum angles were a shocking $140 if I remember correctly, but they will never rust so I got over the cost.

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The sprockets are sized so that one turn of the crank raises or lowers the saw by 1/4". The saw is a Husky 85 cc saw with a 42" Oregon bar and Oregon full complement ripping chain. There is a supplementary oiler that adds oil to the end of the bar. The saw is attached to the mill with a bolt at each end of the bar. Here's a shot with the saw removed so you can see what the attachment points look like.

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And with the saw bolted in place; very easy to install or remove, and very secure by using self locking nuts.

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This is the cut quality typical from the mill. I've never been envious of a bandsaw mill in terms of cut quality, only speed and kerf size.

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This is what I got from that big red oak log and another.

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I have a SketchUp model of the basic mill frame if anyone is interested.

John

Charles Randal Smith
09-02-2015, 9:59 PM
John, thank you for posting these images. The quality of the final product, in photo #6, bears mute testimony to the quality of the workmanship you put into your mill. Well done!

Charles

AL Ursich
09-03-2015, 2:09 PM
I have a Kit Bandsaw Mill that I bought over 10 years ago that I was doing some resaw on. Had a Chainsaw Mill but never used it as I had no help at the time and needed money and sadly sold it... Wish I had not sold it and had it for one of the aluminum frame mills...

Doing some strange things like end boards to try to get more quarter saw stock... Have learned a few tricks since then...

Want to buy a big Log Arch this fall, I have lots of logs if I ever get caught up in my Fire Tag stuff...

Bryan Rocker
09-07-2015, 12:58 AM
I would like the sketup model if you don't mind.........

John TenEyck
09-09-2015, 10:01 AM
It's not hard to build a log arch. Here's the one I made, and then enlarged to handle a 34" dia. log. Nothing more than some 2" tubing and stub axles from an old GM X-body car. The axles and tires are right at their load limit with a big log but nothing has broken so far. I first built it for a 24" log and used a pair of log tongs mounted to the arch to pick up logs. I bought a larger set of tongs to use with the enlarged arch in the picture, but I don't weigh enough to pull the tongue down in order to lift a large log, so I installed the winch and pulley which works very well. I did break the first cable even though it said it was rated to 3500 lbs. All is well with the 1/4" cable now installed. Anyway, this probably cost me about $400 to build.

John

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John TenEyck
09-09-2015, 10:05 AM
I'll post the model when I get back home. Thanks for your patience.

John

AL Ursich
09-09-2015, 1:04 PM
It's not hard to build a log arch. Here's the one I made, and then enlarged to handle a 34" dia. log. Nothing more than some 2" tubing and stub axles from an old GM X-body car. The axles and tires are right at their load limit with a big log but nothing has broken so far. I first built it for a 24" log and used a pair of log tongs mounted to the arch to pick up logs. I bought a larger set of tongs to use with the enlarged arch in the picture, but I don't weigh enough to pull the tongue down in order to lift a large log, so I installed the winch and pulley which works very well. I did break the first cable even though it said it was rated to 3500 lbs. All is well with the 1/4" cable now installed. Anyway, this probably cost me about $400 to build.



John

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John,

I am getting a little off topic.... That is what I need. I am checking with the local PD on the Legality of driving on a short section of Public Road crossing the highway and about 2000 yards of highway to the Driveway. The LogRite 36 inch Log Arch is a off road device.... Might better do it with my Boat Trailer converted to move logs since it is licensed.

Thanks,

AL

John TenEyck
09-09-2015, 2:08 PM
Worst case you should be able to license it as a home built trailer. I have not been able to find out if it even needs to registered in NYS. Car dollies, log splitters, welders and such do not need to be licensed here.

John

Jeff Bartley
09-09-2015, 10:10 PM
John, Nice work on your mill! I borrowed an alaskan mill, a 4' bar, and a stihl 480 (I think?) from a friend a couple years ago to mill some huge crotch logs. Your rig would have made that job so much easier!! But let's not kid anyone: using a chainsaw to mill large slabs is never gonna be easy work.....but it sure is fun!

John TenEyck
09-20-2015, 1:06 PM
Here's a link to photos and a SketchUp Model of my chainsaw mill. The model is at the bottom of the page and can be downloaded by clicking on the downward pointing arrow at near the right hand margin. As I said earlier, the model is not complete but should be pretty easy to understand when looking at the pictures. I'm happy to answer any questions anyone has.

https://sites.google.com/site/jteneyckwoodworker/current-projects/chainsaw-lumber-mill

John
(https://sites.google.com/site/jteneyckwoodworker/current-projects/chainsaw-lumber-mill)

Bryan Rocker
09-20-2015, 1:51 PM
Thanks John, your rig cuts up logs nicely!!!!!

John TenEyck
09-20-2015, 2:32 PM
Al, I like how you rolled those logs onto the trailer. What did you use to peel the bark off those logs? They look nice and clean.

John

nelson lasaosa
10-08-2015, 10:14 PM
Scott what you say makes a lot of sense, Imagine the force involved to shear off a big tree plus the momentum from its own weight... awesome , versus a tree leaning to the ground usually wáter logged, thatīs pushed by the wind... two different beasts, right ? This reminded me of an event I was lucky to come alive and with no injuries, as I was felling a tree without making that wedge cut (I donīt know what is called) first in the direction the tree leans. I just went straight and put the chainsaw in the oposite side and everything was going fine till acumulated stress about half way, made the log snap towards that cut a long section of about 6 ft with an extreme force and a scary sound. Had I been on the way it would have snapped my head off too like that. Thatīs what can happen when a seeemingly harmless chainsaw is in the wrong hands.... pray the lord.