Laser Engraver/Cutter - Questions and Decisions

[Jack Clague]

Hi all,

Hope everyone is doing well, I decided to sign up to the site as I have been a lurker for some time and found most of the threads here to be informative and helpful, recently I have decided to take my workshop to a higher level by looking to purchase a laser engraving and cutting machine, I have been researching the last 2-3 months on these machines and trawling over many of the threads here to get a better understanding of the machines, their capabilities, the requirements to run and the downsides or running the machines for both hobby use and business ventures

I live in Australia so these machines are not easy to come by, we do however have a few of the more common and trusted brands available here in AU, Trotec, Epilog, GCC, Gravograph, and a few others but I do not recall the names
I’m going to be basing my decision on what laser to purchase on the below factors in order of priority:



After sales service, support and warranty
Quality of components
Features of machine
Price of machine


My Requirements:

I have minimal requirements really, as this will be a joint hobby/side business venture I hope to make use of the machine in as wide a variety of ways, my primary hobby is flying large scale radio control aircraft, I hope to use the machine to not only benefit myself but also create products and parts which I could sell to the local flying community, as with all products the more inventive and unique the better and I have a few ideas up my sleeve in regards to this.
Material requirements will be limited to the capabilities of a co2 machines, I cannot justify the expense of a fibre or even dual capability machine just yet, maybe in the future this is something I may consider
Working area, I am looking to keep the working area in the 24x12” range, this seems to be the best starting point if you’re serious about working with a laser engraver, also I would like to work with rotary objects and the smaller size machines do not offer a rotary attachment as a future option

Budget, although limited many years of failures and dud machines has taught me the long term benefit of buy once buy right and buy with confidence, this in mind I will be less concerned about the overall price and more about the longevity and support of the machine, of course I have a limit but with finance options available with most manufactures this can be stretched out and budgeted

Features, key features I would like and what I would use are probably two different things entirely but I’ll list them anyway; *Air Assist; *optimized raster engraving; *relocatable origin; Autofocus; 3D engraving; *Memory Buffer and saveable settings; *colour mapping; Differing / Halftone Conversion; *Metal or Ceramic Tube; *Good quality optics, Red-dot; there are some more features but I think the above is a good base, the ones noted with * are pretty much a requirement instead of a want.

So I guess I should list what I can get hold of here in AU and what I have discerned so far

Lasers that are supported locally to me here and fit or closely fit the above requirements are:

"Trotec;- Speedy range 100, 300
ceramic tube, great optics, from what I have read very good machines, upgradable to the flex range at a later date to include fibre right into the same machine, similar features compared to other brands, price indicative to the quality"

Epilog;- Zing 16,24 – Mini 18,24,Helix
Metal Tube, Good optics, very feature packed (allot of what I listed above is standard), Higher watt ratings available and seems to be best value machine in its range for an overseas produced and supported local machine (in AU)

GCC;- Laserpro range
Supported in AU but not local to me, highest warranty time from all suppliers, I know very little about these machines though

Gravograph;- LS100Ex
Supported in AU but not local to me, I know very little about these machines though

Well I wrote allot but didn’t really ask anything, I guess I wrote all this down to also help me understand my options better and work from there, my main question is really am I on the right path with the machines I am looking at, are there alternate options I have not considered? Are there features or parts of machines I have not thought about?

Kindest Regards
Jack

[Keith Winter]

I see the Trotec Speedy on your list. Cannot go wrong with it.

[David Somers]

I agree with Keith. If you are not concerned with the $$ and want to buy once and buy right....Trotec would be my first choice and Epi the second. Keep in mind I was not in that category though and have a Chinese machine. I am quite happy with it at this point however. If I could of swung it and justified it though I would have done a Trotec, an Epi, or from our Ohio based Rabbit Lasers USA in that order.

Whatever you buy....the best to you!!! And stay with us!! We love to hear how folks are doing with new toys and try to help if we can.

Dave

[Jack Clague]

I agree with Keith. If you are not concerned with the $$ and want to buy once and buy right....Trotec would be my first choice and Epi the second. Keep in mind I was not in that category though and have a Chinese machine. I am quite happy with it at this point however. If I could of swung it and justified it though I would have done a Trotec, an Epi, or from our Ohio based Rabbit Lasers USA in that order.

Whatever you buy....the best to you!!! And stay with us!! We love to hear how folks are doing with new toys and try to help if we can.

Dave

Thanks Dave and Keith

What are your reasons for choosing Trotec over Epilog?

[David Somers]

Speed and the fineness of its optics. Also very well built machine. Check with other owners here that have multiple machines. Dan Hintz, Scott Shephard, etc. They can give you comparisons and direct experience. Scott convinced me to buy a Trotec you know. He just failed to give me an account number! <teasing grin for Scott!!!! :p>

[Jack Clague]

Speed and the fineness of its optics. Also very well built machine. Check with other owners here that have multiple machines. Dan Hintz, Scott Shephard, etc. They can give you comparisons and direct experience. Scott convinced me to buy a Trotec you know. He just failed to give me an account number! <teasing grin for Scott!!!! :p>

Thanks, although I did say $ was not important it is still a factor and I am not sure if my budget will stretch far enough for good Trotec, there machines are a fair chunk more than the Epilogs, and going by the comments i can understand why, I do have a limit and Trotec might breach it :(

I have contacted my local rep though and will discuss with him on a price for a package or if they have any pre-owned machines available

[Ron Gosnell]

I hope to make use of the machine in as wide a variety of ways, my primary hobby is flying large scale radio control aircraft

I went the other way. Smaller scale aircraft (30 inch wing spans) so I can just find a parking lot or field and fly. I love RC flying.
I use a Chinese machine myself just because it's strictly a hobby for me. Dollar tree foam board, some colored tape and about a day for building.
It used to take weeks but the laser can cut out the parts faster than I could print out the plans.
Whatever you choose for a machine I know you will have a blast with it. Life is good.

Gozzie

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[Jack Clague]

I went the other way. Smaller scale aircraft (30 inch wing spans) so I can just find a parking lot or field and fly. I love RC flying.
I use a Chinese machine myself just because it's strictly a hobby for me. Dollar tree foam board, some colored tape and about a day for building.
It used to take weeks but the laser can cut out the parts faster than I could print out the plans.
Whatever you choose for a machine I know you will have a blast with it. Life is good.

Gozzie

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Hi Ron,

Nice designs :)

Just got off with the Trotec dealer and wow, impressed with the level of service from these guys, was a very friendly informative and helpful bloke, he's gonna see what he can do for me and hunt around for a few different options in my budget range, looks like there is a Speedy 300 60W pre-owned available and a demo unit as well for sale so will be getting some quotes on those as options, the biggest part i liked about Trotec was the after sales support, training and warranty options, the level of support far exceeds other companies I have contracted and might by itself be worth the extra initial investment

Will see what they can come up with and certainly keep them in mind if this becomes part of my stable.

[Keith Outten]

Jack,

Actually Trotec prices are comparable to Epilog and the other major laser manufacturers. In fact Members of SawMill Creek have always been offered a considerable discount when purchasing Trotec machines. Possibly your local sales representative is not aware so you should contact the main office in Michigan and ask for the Sales Manager before you make any decisions.
.

[Jerome Stanek]

Jack,

Actually Trotec prices are comparable to Epilog and the other major laser manufacturers. In fact Members of SawMill Creek have always been offered a considerable discount when purchasing Trotec machines. Possibly your local sales representative is not aware so you should contact the main office in Michigan and ask for the Sales Manager before you make any decisions.
.

Does the office in MI cover Australia where he lives

[Jack Clague]

Jack,

Actually Trotec prices are comparable to Epilog and the other major laser manufacturers. In fact Members of SawMill Creek have always been offered a considerable discount when purchasing Trotec machines. Possibly your local sales representative is not aware so you should contact the main office in Michigan and ask for the Sales Manager before you make any decisions.
.

Thanks for the heads up Kieth, I will ask but I'm not sure AU is covered under any promotion for this site.

[Keith Winter]

Really great looking Ron!

Jack you're right, they do have demo models from time to time might save you a couple thousand if you are willing to wait for one.


I went the other way. Smaller scale aircraft (30 inch wing spans) so I can just find a parking lot or field and fly. I love RC flying.
I use a Chinese machine myself just because it's strictly a hobby for me. Dollar tree foam board, some colored tape and about a day for building.
It used to take weeks but the laser can cut out the parts faster than I could print out the plans.
Whatever you choose for a machine I know you will have a blast with it. Life is good.

Gozzie

320264 320265 320266 320267 320268

[Keith Outten]

Thanks for the heads up Keith, I will ask but I'm not sure AU is covered under any promotion for this site.

Jack,

Its not a promotion type of situation between SawMill Creek and Trotec. The company is a major supporter here and they have been very generous towards our Members who purchase their machines. Call the office in Michigan and ask for the Sales Manager or the VP of Sales and tell them you are a Member of SawMill Creek and would like to inquire about the discount they have been providing to our Community. After your conversation they will contact your local Trotec office on your behalf and let them know about our relationship, at that point you should receive a discount towards the machine you are interested in purchasing.

Good Luck!

[Jack Clague]

Jack,

Its not a promotion type of situation between SawMill Creek and Trotec. The company is a major supporter here and they have been very generous towards our Members who purchase their machines. Call the office in Michigan and ask for the Sales Manager or the VP of Sales and tell them you are a Member of SawMill Creek and would like to inquire about the discount they have been providing to our Community. After your conversation they will contact your local Trotec office on your behalf and let them know about our relationship, at that point you should receive a discount towards the machine you are interested in purchasing.

Good Luck!


Many thanks Keith,

I will certainly do that

Jack

[Jack Clague]

Really great looking Ron!

Jack you're right, they do have demo models from time to time might save you a couple thousand if you are willing to wait for one.

Yer the Rep was awesome to deal with, Will still take the call from Epilog's dealer and see what they can offer as well but Trotec is top of the cards currently

[Jack Clague]

I have a question in regards to extraction and fumes, the Trotec Rep in AU advised that guys like myself who will be using the machine at the start for only a few hours a weekend can use a system like a Carbatec Dust Extractor to save some $ with the initial investment, obviously they did market to me their fully integrated system but at $5k odd its a fair expense to start with, I tried a small search on the subject and there are some DIY options, I don't mind spending upto a 1k on the extraction system so if there is an alternative that might be available here please shout away.

[David Somers]

Jack. Is you shop somplace that requires filtration? If you live away from others you could just vent outside?

Dan Hintz had posted on a home made filter. I think he put it in his SMC blog for easy access. The thread is worth looking at though. And there have been other discussions since.

[Jack Clague]

Jack. Is you shop somplace that requires filtration? If you live away from others you could just vent outside?

Dan Hintz had posted on a home made filter. I think he put it in his SMC blog for easy access. The thread is worth looking at though. And there have been other discussions since.


Hi David,

My workshop is my home garage (small double car) and I live in a suburb so my house is about 3m from the next, probably not good to vent outside as they have windows facing my garage and will probably get hit with smells and particulate, so for me its either fully internal filtration or part internal part external, I have a band-saw which I use one of these with (https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/W885#) and it works great, but i doubt that will suffice for a laser machine, I saw Dan's blog post on that, will look around for the parts here in AU but I have a feeling that getting together those materials here will cost close to the same as maybe getting a good pre-made unit

Another option and I will find out the cost but the Epilog dealer here also sells Bofa (http://www.alfexcnc.com.au/products/bofa-laser-fume-extraction.html) so I could contact them about those units and see what they retail for as an alternate

[Kim McIntosh]

Hi Jack,
Could you tell us where in Oz your located and what you will be cutting?

Cheers
Kim

[Jack Clague]

Hi Jack,
Could you tell us where in Oz your located and what you will be cutting?

Cheers
Kim

Hi Kim, I am located in Melbourne and I do not have a set material I will be working with, I am looking to work with all of the below

Cutting:
Acrylic, G10 & other suitable plastics
Ply, Balsa, MDF
Paper, Card, Monocote
Fiberglass

Engraving:
Anodized metals
Wood
Plastic
Glass
Leather

[Keith Outten]

Purchase an inexpensive dust collector.
Throw away the bags and filters.
Run the DC outlet pipe directly to a dryer vent that you install in the wall.

The smell from cutting acrylic will dissipate quickly and its unlikely your neighbors will know the difference. The exception to this rule is rubber.

I ran the Laser Engraver at Christopher Newport University with this setup on the edge of campus in a house that had very close neighbors on both sides and a walking path for students just 15 feet from the laser exhaust.
.

[Jerome Stanek]

Purchase an inexpensive dust collector.
Throw away the bags and filters.
Run the DC outlet pipe directly to a dryer vent that you install in the wall.

The smell from cutting acrylic will dissipate quickly and its unlikely your neighbors will know the difference. The exception to this rule is rubber.

I ran the Laser Engraver at Christopher Newport University with this setup on the edge of campus in a house that had very close neighbors on both sides and a walking path for students just 15 feet from the laser exhaust.
.


Are you sure the students didn't think you were cooking drugs in there.

[Tim Bateson]

Jack,

First I want to say wow! Not enough newbies have done the type of research you obviously have done. Good work!

I'm obviously a big fan of Epilog & the Mini is a real beast that will work day in & day out. I don't know much about the Zing, but would guess it has the same quality. My Mini is 9 years old and was still running on the original tube up until a couple months ago when I bought the Fusion M2. Now my Mini is used more as a workbench. It would still run if I need it, but I'll probably refurbish it and find a new home for it likely after the 1st of next year.

I should add that it never hurts to push a laser dealer on price by dropping hints of any other quotes you have.

Good luck to you.

[Kim McIntosh]

Jack,
I have a friend who lives in Sydney, neighbors close on both sides, and he vents straight outside to a PVC chimney. He hasn't had a complaint in four years. I live rural so neighbors aren't an issue but I added a chimney as well just to get the smoke up a bit higher. As Keith said, buy yourself a dust extractor, Gasweld recently had a 1HP for $99, and use that. I did away with the Chinese 3/4HP that came with my machine and switched to the 1HP (still Chinese) much quieter plus better extraction.

Kim

[Jack Clague]

Jack,

First I want to say wow! Not enough newbies have done the type of research you obviously have done. Good work!

I'm obviously a big fan of Epilog & the Mini is a real beast that will work day in & day out. I don't know much about the Zing, but would guess it has the same quality. My Mini is 9 years old and was still running on the original tube up until a couple months ago when I bought the Fusion M2. Now my Mini is used more as a workbench. It would still run if I need it, but I'll probably refurbish it and find a new home for it likely after the 1st of next year.

I should add that it never hurts to push a laser dealer on price by dropping hints of any other quotes you have.

Good luck to you.

Thanks Tim, I'm treating this like a car purchase, heck it will probably end up costing more that my car so not doing the research is only gonna hurt me in the long run


Jack,
I have a friend who lives in Sydney, neighbors close on both sides, and he vents straight outside to a PVC chimney. He hasn't had a complaint in four years. I live rural so neighbors aren't an issue but I added a chimney as well just to get the smoke up a bit higher. As Keith said, buy yourself a dust extractor, Gasweld recently had a 1HP for $99, and use that. I did away with the Chinese 3/4HP that came with my machine and switched to the 1HP (still Chinese) much quieter plus better extraction.

Kim

Thanks for the info Kim, I might not be able to do a Chimney as I live in a single story and my neighbor lives in a double with windows inline with my garage, I'm thinking of taking Keith's advise and getting a dryer vent and placing it at ground level at the back door of the garage, hopefully by the time any of the smoke or fumes reaches the neighbors 2nd level height it would have dissipated, I'll get at-least 1hp, maybe more thinking this one (https://www.carbatec.com.au/dust-control/dust-extractors/dust-extractor-single-bag-1hp-1-c-24kg-44-41-42cm)

[Jack Clague]

Small update, Just got off the line with my Epilog dealer and i'm just as pleased with the result of the call as Trotec so its in the air at the moment, this is how I view it so far:

Trotec:
High Quality Machine
Sold by Trotec AU instead of a dealer (could also be a downside due to number of clients etc, no office hours for walk in support or quick part pickup)
Good Buy Back Policy (75% in 1st year)
Great Support after sale
Machine comes with probably 80% of what I want so investment is required for the other 20%
Offers some benefits for AU work via a specific website and material discounts (limited)
Pricing is yet to be determined (awaiting quotes)
Not located close to my home

Epilog
Great Quality Machine (probably more than capable for what I want)
Sold by a dealer and not MFG
Dealer also sells a wide variety of laser materials and laser support equipment, offers good discounts for machine owners, after sales support so far seems as good as Trotec
Machine comes with around 90% of the features I want which reduces some of the initial investment
Good Buy Back Policy (to be confirmed, they confirm to Epilog US policy so I presume it will be equivalent to Trotec)
Now this is a biggy and might be the deciding factor after quotes come through: Located only 10min from my day Job and 25min from home (Easy access for materials each day, same day orders available and can pickup)
Pricing yet to be determined (awaiting quotes)

So that it so far, Once the quotes are in I can start getting together some 5 year P & L spreadsheets so I can see what I will be in for in worse case scenarios

[Jack Clague]

Small update, Just got off the line with my Epilog dealer and i'm just as pleased with the result of the call as Trotec so its in the air at the moment, this is how I view it so far:

Trotec:
High Quality Machine
Sold by Trotec AU instead of a dealer (could also be a downside due to number of clients etc, no office hours for walk in support or quick part pickup)
Good Buy Back Policy (75% in 1st year)
Great Support after sale
Machine comes with probably 80% of what I want so investment is required for the other 20%
Offers some benefits for AU work via a specific website and material discounts (limited)
Pricing is yet to be determined (awaiting quotes)
Not located close to my home

Epilog
Great Quality Machine (probably more than capable for what I want)
Sold by a dealer and not MFG
Dealer also sells a wide variety of laser materials and laser support equipment, offers good discounts for machine owners, after sales support so far seems as good as Trotec
Machine comes with around 90% of the features I want which reduces some of the initial investment
Good Buy Back Policy (to be confirmed, they confirm to Epilog US policy so I presume it will be equivalent to Trotec)
Now this is a biggy and might be the deciding factor after quotes come through: Located only 10min from my day Job and 25min from home (Easy access for materials each day, same day orders available and can pickup)
Pricing yet to be determined (awaiting quotes)

So that it so far, Once the quotes are in I can start getting together some 5 year P & L spreadsheets so I can see what I will be in for in worse case scenarios

[Scott Shepherd]

If you plan on doing a 5 YR P&L to make it, you better be including the speed at which it engraves. 5 years is a long time to go slower on every thing you put in the machine that requires engraving.

[Jerome Stanek]

If you plan on doing a 5 YR P&L to make it, you better be including the speed at which it engraves. 5 years is a long time to go slower on every thing you put in the machine that requires engraving.


If he can't get the material for an extra day like he could from the Epilog what difference does the speed make

[Keith Outten]

Getting material is not much of a problem, in fact most of us keep an inventory of material that we use regularly and plan ahead for the jobs we know are coming in the near term.

The speed of the machine is a factor every time you turn it on, unless you are a hobby engraver. The reason we continue to bring up the performance of the Trotec is that experience has taught us how important it can be when your in a production environment. Its also important to mention that if you don't get at least a 75 watt machine IMO the speed won't be as big an issue, if you have to slow the machine down to get the proper engraving you will rarely use the higher speed.

When I sold my Epilog it was dirty because it was almost impossible to keep it clean, the Trotec is a whole other story based on the way it is designed. I'm not bashing Epilog, they make a good machine but the Trotec is a step up due to superior engineering IMO. You have to look beyond the specifications if you are interested in the rest of the story.

150 IPS with 5G acceleration is hard to beat and a machine with lesser specs can double the engraving time. Imagine you have thousands of signs to engrave and one machine engraves a sign in just 4 minutes and another takes 6 minutes. Now consider twelve months of engraving 40 hours per week and you can easily see how the metrics shake out. in my case I was four months early using a 75 watt Trotec on three commercial buildings instead of being late using a 60 watt Xenetech. When you analyze the numbers its not just the power of the tube, the speed and acceleration is just as important.
.

[Jerome Stanek]

We are blessed here in the states where we have a big choice of suppliers. I keep reading that in Australia they don't have that and some are hundreds of miles (kilometers) away.

[Jack Clague]

Every factor is being taken into consideration. Be aware though that this first purchase for me as stated is a side business with hobby use, meaning I will not be taking on big contracts, I have a full time job which pays my bills and this machine will be night and weekend use only. The 5 year p&l is there for my own reference so I can see what I will need to break even more than make a big profit from the investment. I understand the speed benefit from trotec but I also have a limit on my budget and to make use of that speed I will unlikely be able to afford a machine that can output the power needed to make use of it.

As I said though I am pending quotes and options from both suppliers so my decision has yet to be made.

[Jack Clague]

Trotec have come back with a price for a Speedy 100 50 Watt per-owned (12months old) that fits into the budget so that is currently number one choice, I would have prefered a 60W machine but looks like I cannot stretch that far just yet.

Epilog will be quoting for me when I can confirm my financial situation but have indicated their prices to me and a new Mini 24 60W might end up around the same price as the Speedy 100 50W or only a few K more, will be making my decision in the next few weeks after I can confirm how much I can put towards this venture.

[Tim Bateson]

Both machines are good choices. Don't forget to add up the extras - what comes with and does not come with each machine.

[Jack Clague]

Well to coin a phase "this s$%t just got real" my financial backer for this project just gave me the green light to start purchasing equipment, eek, its rolling on a bit faster than I anticipated... better get to it, lots of setup to get done, exhaust syste to be put in place, 15amp circuit for my garage to run the unit and website/business name to sort out, although I've got most of last part already done

[Gary Hair]

I just bought a Trotec Speedy 400 80 watt and I couldn't be happier! I don't think you could go wrong with either machine but I'm so happy with mine that I would urge you to consider the Trotec very seriously. One more thing - buy more machine than you think you'll need. If the Speedy 100 or the Mini 24 will do what you want them to do now, I can guarantee you that they won't be able to do what you want in a year or two, or at the very least you'll discover things you could have done if you would have bought a bigger/more powerful machine. The difference between 50 and 60 watts is negligible, but you should look at the Speedy 360 or even the 400 and imagine what you could do with either one of them. You could always upgrade later but it will cost you more in the long run than if you just bite the bullet and upgrade now. Just my $.02

Gary

[Jack Clague]

Hi Gary,

Thanks for the thoughts, I do have a limit on my budget and the Speedy 100 gets pretty darn close to it, I think the 360 will be way over what I can realistically afford to purchase, this is not a full time venture for me, I have a 8-5 job that pays my bills and this will be 6-10 on weekdays and weekends, I agree though getting a machine that is more than i need now can benefit in the long run but I can only go so far, I will be querying with Trotec and Epilog what a Speedy 300 and Fusion will cost me though so I can compare the cost.

[Glenn Chua]

Jack,

Let's chat. I'll PM you. I'm currently in talks w/ my local Trotec rep to purchase either a Speedy 300 or 400.

Thanks

[Ron Philman]

360 is nice but too much. would be interested to know what you decide between the 300 or 400 and how it performs.

[Jack Clague]

At this stage it looks like I will be going with Epilog, Trotec's AU price is just outrageous

Will keep you all updated though which way I go.

[Jack Clague]

Progress each day... moving on to final equipment choices, getting the garage ready now for the machine, extractor unit and venting should be done by next week, i purchased the laptop today to run the machine and do the coraldraw work on / show off designs etc if I'm at a clients home, i do have a question about coraldraw, should i get the home edition or pay for a year on the graphics suite?

[Bert Kemp]

I'm not sure but I don't think the home edition is for commercial use, or maybe I'm mixing thet up with the student edition. I would check with corel to be sure.

[Shane Archie]

The Home/Student edition is more limited than the suite. I always gone with Suite as Home can't be used for commercial use.

Excluded Pro Features for CorelDRAW® Home & Student Suite X7:

- Native 64-bit OS support
- VBA / VSTA support
- Macro functions disabled
- Some Professional Print options disabled (CMYK features, composite, color separations, PostScript and prepress tabs in the print dialog)
- Enhanced Color Management, Default Color Management settings and large print preview disabled
- Some additional functions and support removed: Color Styles, Object Styles , Color Harmonies, QR codes, Planar Mask tool in Corel PHOTO-PAINT, color
proofing option, Undo dockers, Universal Laser & Roland color palettes, the ability to create left & right master pages, and custom placeholder text
- Some external file format support removed: DXF/DWG, DCS, CGM, JPEG 2000, etc.
- The layout tab has been simplified
- Option to purchase Premium Membership not available for CorelDRAW® Home & Student Suite Users

I've got an Epilog Mini 40 and was thinking of upgrading. Just had my second laser tube replaced on the machine in two years. So looking at other options. How much did Trotec want for their lasers?

[Tony Lenkic]

Hi Jack,

You have contacted Trotec and Epilog reps but have you ever considered third option.......Universal Laser Systems (ULSINC.COM)
I'm sure they would have a rep down under. In my estimate they rank second to Trotec.

[Jack Clague]

Yes just checked your right it's not. I might just get the 1 year subscription then

[Jack Clague]

Hi All,

thanks for the advise and help the past few weeks, it has been invaluable, I am at the stage of getting a final quote now for a machine so your help has gone a long way, i have summed up what is available in AU, my budget, my requirements and also what sort of local support I can get as that will play a huge effect on my purchase, I have made the decision to stick with Epilog as they fulfill more of my criteria than any other manufacturer here in Australia, I have decided to opt for the Helix model for its flexibility in use, wattage I have opted for 50W with an option to consider the 60W, I just have to see if the final price difference between the two will be worth the extra $

Ducting parts were purchased this weekend and the extractor should be here this week, all in all I am getting closer to being setup and ready to roll

Will keep you all updated.

[Scott Shepherd]

Jack, the Helix is a solid model for Epilog. It's been out for a long time and it's been a staple in Epilog's line up for a while. You should be quite happy with it, congratulations!

[Jack Clague]

Jack, the Helix is a solid model for Epilog. It's been out for a long time and it's been a staple in Epilog's line up for a while. You should be quite happy with it, congratulations!

Thanks Scott, I know allot of guys and gals here use Trotec but I had to make a decision based on my criteria and Epilog just filled more of it than Trotec could, no bagging Trotec at all, they have amazing machines and If i was looking for a larger machine I think they would have a better fit

Saying that I can not fault AU customer service for Epilog, they should be very proud of their AU reps, my contact was amazing to deal with (still is) i think its been two weeks plus of questions all with prompt answers and if they could not answer right away they always let me know they got the question and will get back to me as soon as they could, couldn't be happier with the service which is one of the major tipping points of going with them

Quotes are in and I am happy with the prices so its just down to choosing 50W or 60W now, the cost difference is just under 10% of the budget, both machines will fit in my P&L but the 60W will make it a tougher first few years, that said though I might have some contracts lined up that need 6-8mm ply cut which probably suits the 60W more than the 50W

[Keith Winter]

Thanks Scott, I know allot of guys and gals here use Trotec but I had to make a decision based on my criteria and Epilog just filled more of it than Trotec could, no bagging Trotec at all, they have amazing machines and If i was looking for a larger machine I think they would have a better fit

Saying that I can not fault AU customer service for Epilog, they should be very proud of their AU reps, my contact was amazing to deal with (still is) i think its been two weeks plus of questions all with prompt answers and if they could not answer right away they always let me know they got the question and will get back to me as soon as they could, couldn't be happier with the service which is one of the major tipping points of going with them

Quotes are in and I am happy with the prices so its just down to choosing 50W or 60W now, the cost difference is just under 10% of the budget, both machines will fit in my P&L but the 60W will make it a tougher first few years, that said though I might have some contracts lined up that need 6-8mm ply cut which probably suits the 60W more than the 50W

Go more power option, you will never regret it

[Jack Clague]

Hi Guys, rather my thread does not turn into a Chinese vs Western war but here is a breakdown of why I chose a Western made machine over a Chinese import:



Software, ability to store all my required settings in one system with list of all older jobs so i can quickly re-engrave or cut a previous project right from the machine
Optics, creating a much finer cut and higher quality engraving
Designed for both engraving & cutting, If I was only cutting 6mm ply all day long I would be getting a Chinese laser, but cutting is only 20% of my work, the rest will be high rez engraving
Features, inbuilt features such as relocatable origin, red-dot checker, air assist, optimized raster and vector engraving, colour mapping
Support, the Chinese lasers in AU have no support, I contacted two companies that bring in "imports" and did not get one email back, Epilog and Trotec responded in 12 hours or less
Ongoing Support and Training, all part of the package, a full day setup and training is provided in the cost
Warranty, a full 2 year comprehensive warranty is part of the package, which includes tube, optics etc, bumper to bumper with options to extend up to 10 years

[Tim Bateson]

Why is this thread being hijacked to discuss Chinese glass tubes? Maybe a good discussion, but go start another thread for it.

Back on topic... Jack if you have any Epilog questions, peer advice is free here. Take what is said with a grain of salt. As we all have our own opinions and experiences.

[Jack Clague]

Why is this thread being hijacked to discuss Chinese glass tubes? Maybe a good discussion, but go start another thread for it.

Back on topic... Jack if you have any Epilog questions, peer advice is free here. Take what is said with a grain of salt. As we all have our own opinions and experiences.


Thanks Tim, much appreciated

I think my thread subject was a bit too vague so they may have not read the entire thread and only read recent posts assuming it was a general debate thread, its ok I don't mind a bit of banter as long as my questions don't get lost in the fog of war

Appreciate the advise if needed, will be calling on the experience of saw mill creek users allot over the next year

Exciting times

p.s I have decided to get the 60W Helix instead of the 50W, just waiting on finance to confirm and then I can sign the paperwork.

[Scott Shepherd]

Thanks Tim, much appreciated

I think my thread subject was a bit too vague so they may have not read the entire thread and only read recent posts assuming it was a general debate thread, its ok I don't mind a bit of banter as long as my questions don't get lost in the fog of war

Appreciate the advise if needed, will be calling on the experience of saw mill creek users allot over the next year

Exciting times

p.s I have decided to get the 60W Helix instead of the 50W, just waiting on finance to confirm and then I can sign the paperwork.

Good choice Jack, I think you'll be happy with it. When people ask me about the various brands of lasers, I almost always tell them that the Epilog is the easiest to use of any of the 3 major brands. I think you'll find the learning curve quite small and you'll be making things in no time. I can't wait to see what you do with it. Hurry up, would you? ;) I think you'll be really glad you do the 60W. 60W is probably going to measure close to 70W when you get it (you should get them to measure the power when they set it up).

[Jack Clague]

Good choice Jack, I think you'll be happy with it. When people ask me about the various brands of lasers, I almost always tell them that the Epilog is the easiest to use of any of the 3 major brands. I think you'll find the learning curve quite small and you'll be making things in no time. I can't wait to see what you do with it. Hurry up, would you? ;) I think you'll be really glad you do the 60W. 60W is probably going to measure close to 70W when you get it (you should get them to measure the power when they set it up).

Haha, as much as I want the machine in my place like right now I need to make sure I am ready to take it, got a short list of stuff to get done, almost there, once finance is sorted I can sign for the machine and get to work on finalizing the garage, I received my extractor unit today so that is ready to be put in its place, I bought semi rigid 4" ducting, I need to cut a hole for the vent through the rear door, I need to add secure bolts to the rear door for security, Might also consider adding a wireless camera for the front of the garage to "deter" opportunist crime, benches are being moved into place for work space and convenience, shelving is almost done to hold stock of materials, laptop is purchased and CorelDraw has been purchased so I have started training on that, hope to have 2 or 3 designs ready to test before the Epilog guys turn up.

Will make a note to ask for a power test when they arrive, thanks

[Scott Shepherd]

Many, many, many apologies to those who had the discussion about the 60W glass vs. 60W metal tube discussion. It had highjacked Jack's thread about buying his own laser and I "attempted" to split the thread and create a new thread from all those posts that weren't about Jack's adventure. I selected them all, told it to "Copy" them, it asked where to, and gave me a opportunity to give the new thread a new name, I did, and submitted it and now all the threads are gone and there's no new thread.

Sorry about that guys, I was trying to clean things up and looks like I made a mess of it all. Really sorry, that certainly wasn't my intention. Apparently that copy feature does something different than I expected it to do.

[Jack Clague]

Many, many, many apologies to those who had the discussion about the 60W glass vs. 60W metal tube discussion. It had highjacked Jack's thread about buying his own laser and I "attempted" to split the thread and create a new thread from all those posts that weren't about Jack's adventure. I selected them all, told it to "Copy" them, it asked where to, and gave me a opportunity to give the new thread a new name, I did, and submitted it and now all the threads are gone and there's no new thread.

Sorry about that guys, I was trying to clean things up and looks like I made a mess of it all. Really sorry, that certainly wasn't my intention. Apparently that copy feature does something different than I expected it to do.

Ahh shucks now i kinda feel guilty as well..

Hope I haven't offended anyone, it was just getting a bit over-run and off topic.

Thank you though Scott for taking the time and trying to split the thread.

[Jack Clague]

Hi all,

Did a test fitting for the extractor today, can anyone see any problems with my proposed setup, I did a test run and it had great suction at the other end, its a 1hp unit around 650cfm stated on the box, I am hoping those two 90 deg turns and the 180deg turn I need will not effect the draw too much, Epilog state 350-400 cfm, with those bends do you think i'm getting that? the tubing is around 2.5m long total.
321392321393321394

Jack

[Tim Bateson]

I didn't have any luck with that flexible metal piping. It leaked fumes and smoke. I converted to PVC piping.

[Bert Kemp]

I agree mine leaks also and when I get back home will change to pvc.


I didn't have any luck with that flexible metal piping. It leaked fumes and smoke. I converted to PVC piping.

[Gary Hair]

I don't think the 90's will hurt it too badly but the 180 will. Why not just flip it over and eliminate the 180?

[Jack Clague]

no way to flip it over, the only exit i have is that door, if i flip it over then the out flow is facing the wrong way

[Jack Clague]

Ahh shucks, I guess I'll have to see what PVC fittings I can get hold of, did it leak that bad? it seems pretty solid the one I have, its the semi rigid piping

EDIT: Tim is this the sort of stuff you were talking about, i can get this from the same supplier i got the extractor: https://www.carbatec.com.au/dust-control/hoses-and-pipes/hose-clear-pvc-2m-boxed


I didn't have any luck with that flexible metal piping. It leaked fumes and smoke. I converted to PVC piping.

[Gary Hair]

I don't mean front to back, I mean side to side - in the picture you posted, rotate it 180 degrees clockwise so that the inflow is pointing left instead off right. Yes, it will be upside down but it won't matter. I have two of them mounted the exact same way for the same reason. Just need to make a stand or adapt the one that came with it.

[Glen Monaghan]

Since you have the flex on the suction side, you really shouldn't have issues with fumes/smoke escaping back into the room from there (since it will have negative pressure inside), but PVC would be smoother and reduce friction losses and have essentially no infiltration of room air. Bends are a greater concern. You have to consider the air velocity, cfm, duct diameter, and radius of the bend versus duct diameter to determine specifics, but the turbulence caused by a 90 degree bend can cause losses in the bend that are equivalent to the losses in a straight piece of duct that are on the order of 20-40 feet. A 45 degree bend might cause a third as much loss as a 90 degree bend, so two 45s would be better than one 90, and a large radius bend (radius on the order of 2-3 times the duct diameter) is much better than a sharp radius bend (radius under about 0.75 times the duct diameter). A tight 180 degree bend like you have is about the worst layout you could have.

If you must position the blower to the right of the outlet as shown, you'd be much better off making a mount for the blower to hold it "upside down" so that the duct can enter straight from the left, eliminating that 180 bend entirely. The blower won't mind that orientation at all. Then, make that first 90 degree bend as large a radius (gradual) as you can. Remember that I said two 45 degree bends cause less loss than a 90, and that a large radius bend causes less loss than a small radius? Well apply that here by changing the layout of the longer run over to the blower... instead of having that 1st bend go straight down the wall into the 2nd 90 degree bend and then running horizontally along the floor over to the blower, turn the first (now large radius) 90 degree bend so the previously vertical leg instead goes diagonally down to the right, toward and gradually curving into the blower's inlet, basically eliminating the 2nd 90 degree bend.

[Tim Bateson]

That type of tubing will likely come with you engraver. I use a short run of that to my PVC pipe, then a short run to connect the PVC to the blower.

[Keith Winter]

I agree mine leaks also and when I get back home will change to pvc.

Be sure to ground it properly, I'm not an HVAC contractor but I've read that the reason metal is normally used is because it prevents sparks. I believe you can use PVC but you need to make sure the pvc is all grounded to be 100% safe. On a small run like your it may not matter, but depending on what you are cutting it may. I thought I'd mention it at least.

It's a pain to have to redo a system after it's done, so best to do it right the first time. I should know I've redone mine three times :) Glen has provided you some excellent advance above I'd try to incorporate as many of his suggestions as you can.

As for metal piping leaks:
The way to stop leaks with metal piping is to screw AND metal tape all joints AND elbows. Buy the extreme weather metal tape and you'll be golden, that stuff called "duct tape" is really quite awful for real duct work and comes loose easily in my experience. My system pushes around 4,000 cfm with rigid metal pipes and we have little to no leaks using this screw and tape method.

Edit: When I look at it again, Jack you have no joints in that layout just one solid piece of flex pipe so I'm not sure Tim or my suggestions even apply here.

[Jack Clague]

Thanks guys. I will check my local place tonight for PVC tubing and bends the might work and see about making up some legs for the unit to sit upside down on

[Gary Hair]

Thanks guys. I will check my local place tonight for PVC tubing and bends the might work and see about making up some legs for the unit to sit upside down on

Just realized what country you are in... it's already upside down, you need to turn it rightside up!

[Phil Vernon]

Hi Jack,
Sorry not having been on for a while.
I am in Melbourne and have worked for 2 of the 3 multi-nationals you mentioned.
My advice would be to not sign just yet but go to the Visual Impact exhibition this week at Jeffs Shed, Thursday, Friday and Saturday. They will all be there http://www.viie.com.au/melbourneexhibition2015
You will be in a good bargaining position..the 3 main players all have their strength and weaknesses.
Happy to talk to you about it.
Regards,
Phil.

[Jack Clague]

Just realized what country you are in... it's already upside down, you need to turn it rightside up!

Haha :D

For convenience and also to clear some floor space I have thought that maybe the below might be a better solution, sorry for my sucky drawing abilities but how about this? (I do not intend to use the door and want it barred as its a security risk)

321460

The idea is to mount the extractor on one of the "barring" braces I am putting on the door using the supplied hanging clips, on the photos above you can see the holes in the base that the hooks fit into, this will have the inflow facing the machine and if i measure it right I can get it in the exact same height line as well, the output will then be facing the floor and will turn a casual 90deg into an exit duct through the door.

Thoughts?

[Jack Clague]

Hi Jack,
Sorry not having been on for a while.
I am in Melbourne and have worked for 2 of the 3 multi-nationals you mentioned.
My advice would be to not sign just yet but go to the Visual Impact exhibition this week at Jeffs Shed, Thursday, Friday and Saturday. They will all be there http://www.viie.com.au/melbourneexhibition2015
You will be in a good bargaining position..the 3 main players all have their strength and weaknesses.
Happy to talk to you about it.
Regards,
Phil.

Hi Phil,

Thanks mate, I intend to visit that exhibition, I am taking Friday off work to go, I have though already signed for my machine.

I did allot of prodding and poking with the top 3 runners here in AU and I think the overall deal I got was pretty good.

Are you going?

Jack

[Gary Hair]

Haha :D

For convenience and also to clear some floor space I have thought that maybe the below might be a better solution, sorry for my sucky drawing abilities but how about this? (I do not intend to use the door and want it barred as its a security risk)

321460

The idea is to mount the extractor on one of the "barring" braces I am putting on the door using the supplied hanging clips, on the photos above you can see the holes in the base that the hooks fit into, this will have the inflow facing the machine and if i measure it right I can get it in the exact same height line as well, the output will then be facing the floor and will turn a casual 90deg into an exit duct through the door.

Thoughts?


I think the door will vibrate off its hinges and drive you crazy in the mean time. I would probably leave it on the ground with rubber feet instead.

Is there any way you could put it outside and run the duct through the door? That would eliminate a lot of noise if you could.

[Jack Clague]

Hi Gary,

The Brace will not be touching the door, the brace is being securely fixed to the two supporting wood braces either side of the door and will be heavy duty timber, do you think this will still cause some issues?

I could place another brace at the lower part of the machine as well so instead of it "hanging" there is will be essentially bolted to the wall?


I think the door will vibrate off its hinges and drive you crazy in the mean time. I would probably leave it on the ground with rubber feet instead.

[Phil Vernon]

Are you going?

Jack

Hi Jack,
I hadn't really decided actually.
Got a mate down in Hoppers Crossing owns an Engraving Business that I'm gonna call to see when he's going.
I may be able to get off from work early to go on Friday, will run it pass the boss who is overseas atm.
Will pm you my mobile number.
I live NE Melbourne in the Diamond Valley...yourself?

Cheers,
Phil.

[Jack Clague]

Taylors Hill, NW, yer chuck me your number I'll give you a text so you have mine, would be great to keep in touch

[Gary Hair]

Mine is bolted to the wall in my shop and it isn't too terrible, although it is about 16' above me with ceiling tiles between it and me and the walls are 6" steel studs with two layers of sheetrock sandwiching a sheet of 3/4" plywood. Not sure why they built it that way but it sure is strong!


Hi Gary,

The Brace will not be touching the door, the brace is being securely fixed to the two supporting wood braces either side of the door and will be heavy duty timber, do you think this will still cause some issues?

I could place another brace at the lower part of the machine as well so instead of it "hanging" there is will be essentially bolted to the wall?

[Jack Clague]

I have decided to visit the local exhibition here in Melbourne that is hosting the 3 main manufacturers for engraving and will be revisiting my options for the machine, although I have signed a "proposal" to purchase no money has changed hands so I want to make sure I am making the right decision with the machine before I pay my deposit.

The good thing is now I know exactly how much I have in my budget and that I am ready to purchase on the spot.

[David Somers]

Jack,

Not sure if this would work for you. But a number of people here have described placing their fans outside in an insulated, covered but ventilated box they built just for it. In some cases the boxes have included filtration systems to cut down on fumes for the neighbors. This has the advantage of freeing up space in your shop, and also reduces the noise in your shop. And since your pipe in the garage would be on the suction side of the fan leaks will not be an issue. Not sure how noisy that unit is when running. If it is like my Chinese fan I think I would stand a fair chance of winning a competition with a Boeing 737 jet engine.

In my case, I had the house crawl space on the other side of the garage wall where the laser is. After pondering a bit it occurred to me to run my vent hose into that crawl space and put the fan in there, right where it is blowing out of the house. The crawl space is dry, stays above 50 in the coldest weather (I kept watch on temps under there all last winter) and the space is well insulated so the noise of the fan is hardly noticeable in the shop. The noise also can't be heard in the house (it is below the kitchen anyway so a little bit of noise would have been fine) and it doesn't bother my neighbors at all, either for noise or fumes. (I keep checking with them out of courtesy) Anyway.....I also set it up so I have an air intake to the laser from under the house so when the fan is running the replacement air to the laser is not coming from my heated shop but instead comes from the crawl space. I put a gate in the pipe so I can swap for intake from the garage directly if I want.

Anyway....just thoughts!! Fun to watch someone else going through the "pre-laser" process!!

Dave

[Tim Bateson]

You are not locked in, so if you find a better deal, jump on it. Also dealers tend to have their lowest prices at these shows, so go ahead and push for a better deal or more items thrown into your deal.

[Jack Clague]

Thanks Dave, noise wise it actually not that bad, its about the same as vacuum cleaner just a bit deeper, with some home made sound proofing it should be very tolerable, I will be looking at filtering options at the show this weekend as well and seeing if there is something that might work to help keep the smell down, or even a home made filter just for the smell


Jack,

Not sure if this would work for you. But a number of people here have described placing their fans outside in an insulated, covered but ventilated box they built just for it. In some cases the boxes have included filtration systems to cut down on fumes for the neighbors. This has the advantage of freeing up space in your shop, and also reduces the noise in your shop. And since your pipe in the garage would be on the suction side of the fan leaks will not be an issue. Not sure how noisy that unit is when running. If it is like my Chinese fan I think I would stand a fair chance of winning a competition with a Boeing 737 jet engine.

In my case, I had the house crawl space on the other side of the garage wall where the laser is. After pondering a bit it occurred to me to run my vent hose into that crawl space and put the fan in there, right where it is blowing out of the house. The crawl space is dry, stays above 50 in the coldest weather (I kept watch on temps under there all last winter) and the space is well insulated so the noise of the fan is hardly noticeable in the shop. The noise also can't be heard in the house (it is below the kitchen anyway so a little bit of noise would have been fine) and it doesn't bother my neighbors at all, either for noise or fumes. (I keep checking with them out of courtesy) Anyway.....I also set it up so I have an air intake to the laser from under the house so when the fan is running the replacement air to the laser is not coming from my heated shop but instead comes from the crawl space. I put a gate in the pipe so I can swap for intake from the garage directly if I want.

Anyway....just thoughts!! Fun to watch someone else going through the "pre-laser" process!!

Dave

Hi Tim,

Thanks, I felt bad telling Epilogs dealer I wanted to hold off but its allot of money for me to invest so I need to be 100% sure I am making the right decision


You are not locked in, so if you find a better deal, jump on it. Also dealers tend to have their lowest prices at these shows, so go ahead and push for a better deal or more items thrown into your deal.

[David Somers]

Hi Jack,

If you are toying with the idea of a homemade filter, check out Dan Hintz thread about it from a ways back. There were great ideas, Dan's included, along with lots of thought and experiences. It got so popular he put it in his blog entry on this site so it was easier to find. Here is the link to it.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/blog.php?26182

I am fortunate in that I haven't needed it. If you are venting outside you may not need one at all for your protection inside the shop. In that case the main concern would be people near you who could be affected by the output, or any laws that affect you regardless of where you output.

Dave

[Jack Clague]

I found this site recently, thought it was a great place to link for those like me that need to know what NOT to cut with their new laser: http://atxhackerspace.org/wiki/Laser_Cutter_Materials

[Gary Hair]

Just beware that they say it's ok to cut teflon and it is certainly not ok! The two materials my laser manufacturer specifically say not to use in the laser are teflon and pvc. So, just because someone puts a list together on the internet doesn't mean it's correct... caveat emptor

[Jack Clague]

Just beware that they say it's ok to cut teflon and it is certainly not ok! The two materials my laser manufacturer specifically say not to use in the laser are teflon and pvc. So, just because someone puts a list together on the internet doesn't mean it's correct... caveat emptor

Thanks Gary,

I will add that to my own list, any new material for me I will be ensuring it is all ok to do the work before quoting a client or running the machine. I'm sure the manufactures also have a good understanding on what not to cut or engrave and I can fall back on them if I cannot find out from multiple sources online.

[Scott Shepherd]

Jack, here's a good list of things....

http://www.ulsinc.com/materials-library/search/material/

Note that is does say you can laser Teflon. I've always heard you can't, but they are showing it as something you can, with no cautions at all. Interesting.

[Kev Williams]

Not sure why Teflon would be considered not-laserable, if it was poisonous when burned I doubt they'd be coating frying pans with the stuff?

quote Wiki:
"While PTFE is stable and nontoxic at lower temperatures, it begins to deteriorate after the temperature of cookware reaches about 260 °C (500 °F), and decomposes above 350 °C (662 °F). These degradation by-products can be lethal to birds, and can cause flu-like symptoms in humans."

I'm thinking 'flu-like symptoms' can be caused by LOTS of stuff considered 'ok' to laser.

I tried to cut thru some 10 mil teflon once with my 25w ULS, very slow and not very good results. Never tried since.

[Tim Bateson]

I found this site recently, thought it was a great place to link for those like me that need to know what NOT to cut with their new laser: http://atxhackerspace.org/wiki/Laser_Cutter_Materials

Jack, maybe use that site as a "rough" guide. I believe the site is a good attempt and means well, so I won't pile-on with additional inaccuracies.

[Jack Clague]

Jack, maybe use that site as a "rough" guide. I believe the site is a good attempt and means well, so I won't pile-on with additional inaccuracies.


Yep plan to, taking every bit of info I get online with a large pile of salt on the side.

[Jack Clague]

Righty o, I'm off the exhibition tomorrow here in Melbourne, all the laser guys will be there touting their machines, any thing to look out for that I may not already know?

I'm taking some scrap leather with me and a USB with a vector logo on it to ask if they demonstrate their machine on my own design and material, it should be a good test to see how much they know about their own machines and to see how well they can engrave and cut into 4mm leather hide

Will take the Camera and get some shots of the models on display :)

[David Somers]

Good Luck Jack! Here's to a terrific machine in your future! Or a really fun trip to Melbourne if nothing else!

Dave

[Jack Clague]

Well just got back from the show, knackered, who would have thought looking at all those machines would be so tiring haha

And I have signed for a machine.... To say I'm excited is an understatement :D

[Jack Clague]

Here are some pics :)

321641
Massive Trotec line up at the show
321642
321643
A sample I had done for a demo on some English leather and one of my friends company logo's, this was raster engraved

And my ugly mug next to the machine I bought, although i didn't get the Flexx I just got the CO2 version, it looks tiny next to me lol
321644

[Mike Null]

Jack

Excellent choice. Congratulations!!

[Tim Bateson]

Not a bad machine. They must have really wanted your business. Welcome to the insanity.

[Jack Clague]

Thanks Tim, Mike,

I am very glad I went to the show, no doubt about it. and I still feel the next day I have made the right choice so all in all I'm stoked

They have estimated 2 weeks for delivery and setup so I'm planning around that, got two client chomping at the bit for me to get started so cannot wait to get rolling

Overall I cannot fault any team at the show; Trotec Australia, they were just amazing to deal with and really pulled out all the stops for me which won me over.

[Keith Outten]

Congratulations Jack!
.

[Steve Morris]

Nice one Jack, you won't be disappointed.

[Jack Clague]

Not sure the reason but I got a stellar deal on upgrading my purchase to a new 300 same wattage, i'm guessing someone in my state ordered it and backed out or upgraded and they have the machine here so instead of shipping it back to the central state they are moving it on at first come first serve prices, so i took it, its not much over my budget including the harsh environment kit so I can live with the cost... Cannot wait... damn now i need to make more room in the garage.

[Scott Shepherd]

WOW Jack, that's a GREAT upgrade! Congratulations!

Somewhere on there, there's a "Trotec Training" thread. I think it's listed in a sticky on the top of the forum. Take some time and watch the couple videos I have up. I know they are long, but it'll give you some insight into some things that will be very important in hitting the ground running.

[michel flon]

Epilog, best choice for engravers ?
Hi,Thanks for accepting me on this forum . Please excuse the numerous mistakes I will do in this post but French is my mother language . I am a retired engineer (70) and I had a company with 17 co-workers . I had the chance to order in my life ,10 CNC machines,among these, a production C02 laser 1500W from MAZAK ,Two HAAS cnc mill and lathe and 2 Epilog engravers ( one helix 60W and a legend mini 40W ) . These latest were bought in France by the french representative of Epilog in 2010 . They are used about 100 hours a year to cut Plexiglass 1/4 and 3/8 . This allow me to realise the projects I am still developing for Hobby . I was first of all very surprised that the laser tubes needed to be refill every 4-6 years , independently of the use , and that, on my Helix 60 W , Mean Time Between Failures was very low . After exchanging the tube under waranty in 2011, I had to buy another motherboard in 2014, and now in 2015 , after several test with the dealer , il have to ask a tube exchange ( no longer under waranty). Although I suspected a problem with the RF module , dealer didn't wanted to open the tube . exchange quote is 3.987 $ . I decided to open the tube by myself and I found 2 standard components ( a small chip and a capacitor) fried on the daughter board plugged on the base board of the tube . I took several pictures and I am writing now to Epilog a 3 page letter . This letter can be found on my website following this link . I would really appreciate your comments just to see if a low MTBF is normal, if, for a world distributed company, the lack of abroad competence center able to refill a tube or to exchange small pcb's is also normal or if I had really no luck with this machine . I will try to have a better layout next time but this is the first time I post on a forum. Michel

[Jack Clague]

WOW Jack, that's a GREAT upgrade! Congratulations!

Somewhere on there, there's a "Trotec Training" thread. I think it's listed in a sticky on the top of the forum. Take some time and watch the couple videos I have up. I know they are long, but it'll give you some insight into some things that will be very important in hitting the ground running.


Thanks Scott, I will save that to my fav and have a watch when I get home.

Jack

[Jack Clague]

Scott, or anyone with a Trotec, has anyone run the latest Job control software under windows 10?

I got my confirmation of delivery today and noted it said windows 7/8 so was wondering if anyone has run on 10 yet, all my computers are running 10 but I can push my laptop back to 8.1 if I really really need to, just a pain is all.

Jack

[Scott Shepherd]

I don't know Jack. I wouldn't take my production machines to W10, but that's just me. On my design computer, I don't mind updating OS's, almost the day it comes out if I want to, but on our production machines, we don't do that. Too many stories (and experiences) of lost time, additional expenses (something is no longer compatible), or countless other issues causes us to just get things working well and stick with them until you HAVE to update something.

We are looking at another piece of equipment right now which requires it's own computer and it's probably going to have to have W7 on it because I couldn't see putting W8 on it and W10 isn't some place I'd like to go yet with production :)

[Ross Moshinsky]

I don't know Jack. I wouldn't take my production machines to W10, but that's just me. On my design computer, I don't mind updating OS's, almost the day it comes out if I want to, but on our production machines, we don't do that. Too many stories (and experiences) of lost time, additional expenses (something is no longer compatible), or countless other issues causes us to just get things working well and stick with them until you HAVE to update something.

We are looking at another piece of equipment right now which requires it's own computer and it's probably going to have to have W7 on it because I couldn't see putting W8 on it and W10 isn't some place I'd like to go yet with production :)

Don't rule out Win8. Classic Shell makes Win8 a very usable OS.

[Bill George]

Ditto, just because Windows 10 is "free" there are so many issues you will need to deal with, #1 is user privacy. Posts all over the internet about those and the other biggie is Windows Update has downloaded without permission the Win 10 install on your computer, just in case you change your mind and would want to update. If you have Win 7 and it works, don't mess with success.

[Scott Shepherd]

Don't rule out Win8. Classic Shell makes Win8 a very usable OS.

It might very well be, but those OS's offer no advantage to us on the machines they run on. We don't need social media integration on them. They just need to open Corel, or ONYX, and work.

I don't mind it for my desktop computer where I create artwork, but for the machines we run daily and count on, I like stability over everything else. Just my personal preference.

[Ross Moshinsky]

It might very well be, but those OS's offer no advantage to us on the machines they run on. We don't need social media integration on them. They just need to open Corel, or ONYX, and work.

I don't mind it for my desktop computer where I create artwork, but for the machines we run daily and count on, I like stability over everything else. Just my personal preference.

If you have a Win8 machine, install Classic Shell and see what I mean. Once it's installed and you have everything configured (which isn't much), I bet you'll think you're running a Win7 machine.

[David Somers]

Jack,

I agree with folks. If you are doing fine with Win 7 or 8 and rely on the machine for business then I would be reluctant to update. Having said that though, if the machine is going to be attached to the internet, or exchanging data with machines that are on the internet via nike net (using USB thumbdrives carried machine to machine for example) then I would keep a few things in mind.

1st. Win7 is no longer getting anything but security updates applied to it. There will be no general fixes or corrections unless they are security oriented. Even that will drop in Jan of 2020. Once support for security fixes goes you should have moved on to a more current version or you have a high risk of becoming affected by viruses and malware. Anti virus software and anti malware software is an add on protection to an operating system that has up to date security patches. They are not a substitute or replacement for a fully security patched OS.

For Win8.x you are good into 2023.

Keep an eye on your software and be sure that any updates you buy for those programs are compatible with your Operating System. Windows 10 is in a weird position right now in that I have seen a very few packages that say WIN10 on them but their web sites say NOT compatible with Windows 8. I havent called to question those packages yet. That doesnt make sense this early in the product cycles. And of course, be sure anything you are running including that caution includes things like printer drivers will run in Windows 10. I asked my laser software company if they are Win10 compatible and they said "Ohhhhh it should be fine. But we didnt tell you that." Hmmmmm.

Also, remember you have a bit less than 1 year now (July 29 2016) to upgrade for free to Win10 if you are eligible (you are a licensed user of Win 7 or better in other words). After that you have to pay retail for the package, which is currently around $150 per seat I think?

Anyway...being able to work is obviously your first concern, but security should be a close second, and only by a nose hair so watch those dates. And dont ignore the OS hoping to rely on anti-virus/anti-malware to protect you.

If you do update your machine's Operating System I would be paranoid and be sure you have a fill image backup of your disk BEFORE you update. That does not mean a backup with a basic backup package like you find on most external hard disks nowadays. An image is a byte by byte backup of the whole disk so you can restore the entire disk as it was before the backup. There are third party packages that can do this, and depending on your setup Windows can do it. Then, if your upgrade goes somewhere in a handbasket you can simply restore the entire image back to the disk and you are right back where you were exactly, no harm no foul. Except some time lost. An image backup and restore is generally fairly quick.

Dave

[Jack Clague]

Thanks guys, Much appreciated, Trotec also noted the same.

I'm gonna run similar to Scott and keep windows 10 on my office design computer and run windows 8.1 on the control laptop, at least this way I can keep only the essential items on the control laptop and strip everything else off it, should keep it nice and smooth, I run a home network so can link the laptop to the central computer and save any graphics changes done on that laptop in the workshop to an external drive inside the house.

[Scott Shepherd]

I run a home network so can link the laptop to the central computer and save any graphics changes done on that laptop in the workshop to an external drive inside the house.

That's what we do. We have a network drive with a RAID array, and all files are saved to that. If any computer in the place goes down, then we can pretty easily put another one in place, load 2-3 programs, and we're set.

[Kev Williams]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Ross Moshinsky http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=2470143#post2470143)
Don't rule out Win8. Classic Shell makes Win8 a very usable OS.


It might very well be, but those OS's offer no advantage to us on the machines they run on. We don't need social media integration on them. They just need to open Corel, or ONYX, and work.

Big ditto!

In my list of machines below, the Triumph and the 2 "IS" machines are the only ones that can be run with Vista or higher. The only thing Vista or Win7 can do at ALL that's of any help, is they will load a generic text driver I can use. However, even doing that requires a work-around in Gravostyle's post-processor. Win8 won't even do that.

So, most of my machines are run by XP computers. One machine and 3 programs I use daily require Win98. My Vanguard 5000 still runs off it's original 1989 Motorola proprietary computer--but I could upgrade off that if I ever need to, but right now, for the jobs I do on that machine there's no need to.

I'm all for computer upgrades, but the fact drivers that work fine in XP will not work whatsoever in Vista, 7 or 8 is ridiculous...

[Tim Bateson]

That's what we do. We have a network drive with a RAID array, and all files are saved to that. If any computer in the place goes down, then we can pretty easily put another one in place, load 2-3 programs, and we're set.

Ditto, minus the RAID. I use to backup-up real-time, but that put too much load on my system. I switched to Allway Sync Pro for bi-directional backups and recovery. I often work on my laptop & it keeps the files in sync with the work PC. A central Sever with RAID would be idea, but the cost of that is a non-starter for me.

[Jack Clague]

Ditto, minus the RAID. I use to backup-up real-time, but that put too much load on my system. I switched to Allway Sync Pro for bi-directional backups and recovery. I often work on my laptop & it keeps the files in sync with the work PC. A central Sever with RAID would be idea, but the cost of that is a non-starter for me.

Yep looked into that as well, I decided as it was a home business the simple home network over wifi with shared files would work well for me, I have a good portable hard-drive as well that I can use with the laptop for faster file reading, just need to back it up every now week.

[David Somers]

Jack,

A suggestion. Look at some sort of scheduled backup software rather than relying on your good intentions to do it yourself. My experiences over the years with people in the offices I covered was that no matter how well intentioned or well organized a person was the odds of their keeping up with a manually performed backup was VERY low. They might start off OK but circumstances would eventually kick in and they would forget. 6 months to a year later I get a call that their hard disk died, I go check it out, look at their backup disk and see that their last backup was done a longgggggggg time ago. Gnashing of teeth and general unhappiness followed.

Dave

[Jeffrey Dewing]

I went with a Speedy 300, 80 watt. The job control alone has made it worth wile for me. I also use their support team all the time and they have been fabulous. I'm still learning new time saving tricks built into this machine. I don't work for them, or get anything for saying any of this. I've found it to be fast, and a work horse. I don't know from experience, but have heard Epilog lasers are very good, and have a good support team as well. I'm glad I went the way I did. Good Luck with what ever you decide! Jeff A. Dewing, Bellwether Laser LLC, Durham, NH....

[Jack Clague]

Jack,

A suggestion. Look at some sort of scheduled backup software rather than relying on your good intentions to do it yourself. My experiences over the years with people in the offices I covered was that no matter how well intentioned or well organized a person was the odds of their keeping up with a manually performed backup was VERY low. They might start off OK but circumstances would eventually kick in and they would forget. 6 months to a year later I get a call that their hard disk died, I go check it out, look at their backup disk and see that their last backup was done a longgggggggg time ago. Gnashing of teeth and general unhappiness followed.

Dave

Thank Dave for the advise, I believe I can setup windows to automatically backup a particular drive every week, if not I will look into getting some software that will do that for me.

[Jack Clague]

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Got allot done on the weekend, Just missing one piece of equipment now.....

Can't wait.. ETA Wednesday......

[Jack Clague]

It arrived all in one piece.... so fracking happy right now.

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Edit: some more pics from the day:

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I had to do a test run on some of my leather I had :)
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[Mike Null]

Jack

Very nice set up. It looks like you're already an expert with it. Leather is a fun material to work with.

I'd love to have 80 watts but my 45 watt has been printing money for 9 years now.

[Jack Clague]

Jack

Very nice set up. It looks like you're already an expert with it. Leather is a fun material to work with.

I'd love to have 80 watts but my 45 watt has been printing money for 9 years now.

Thanks for the compliment Mike, I would be no where as near as confident to use the machine without the help sawmill creek and the Trotec guys in AU have given me, I cannot express how much the support from Trotec here has made a difference to my experience so far.

Leather is awesome to work with and only 20min from my day Job there is a wholesaler for hides, they have a 40sqft warehouse with leather everywhere, gonna be trying lots of different things me thinks

I did some small little tags for my wife's side business which is cakes and party decorations, they came up pretty well for a first go, very happy with the 6pt font at the bottom

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You can see the start point for the laser on the cut line, as its such a small curve it took some tweaking to get the power just right so it did not make a big dent there, I might see over the next week if i can learn about starting a cut line at a different location to help with that

[Scott Shepherd]

Jack, that start line is because it's moving when it's cutting. You might have too much heat in it. It's hard to explain, but once you see it happen, it'll make sense. When you put a lot of heat into some materials, they want to really move around. As it gets closer to the end of the cut, it shifts around in the kerf and causes that mismatch. What speed/power did you use to cut through it? I was cutting some acrylic the other day and watched it actually move the material 1/8" when I was cutting it, while the acrylic was moving around as it was cutting. There are techniques to deal with it all.

[Mike Null]

The mark you referred to happens when I'm cutting 1/32" and sometimes 1/16" material. I have been able to remove it by rubbing the edge with denatured alcohol. It doesn't happen often but I am familiar with it. I believe it occurs at the start point but with thin materials the heat will cause them to move.
By the way, DNA removes the sticky stuff from the edges as well.

[Jack Clague]

Jack, that start line is because it's moving when it's cutting. You might have too much heat in it. It's hard to explain, but once you see it happen, it'll make sense. When you put a lot of heat into some materials, they want to really move around. As it gets closer to the end of the cut, it shifts around in the kerf and causes that mismatch. What speed/power did you use to cut through it? I was cutting some acrylic the other day and watched it actually move the material 1/8" when I was cutting it, while the acrylic was moving around as it was cutting. There are techniques to deal with it all.


The mark you referred to happens when I'm cutting 1/32" and sometimes 1/16" material. I have been able to remove it by rubbing the edge with denatured alcohol. It doesn't happen often but I am familiar with it. I believe it occurs at the start point but with thin materials the heat will cause them to move.
By the way, DNA removes the sticky stuff from the edges as well.

Thanks. That makes perfect sense. It is a trolase and I was able to get a much cleaner cut by reducing the power. I'll experiment some more and try to find the optimum power speed ratio for cutting that material so it moves as little as possible.

I'm shut down for the night but will post my settings up tmrw for you Scott

I think for a first day it was rather productive

[Matt McCoy]

Looks awesome. Enjoyed following along. Best of luck.

[Jack Clague]

I did these today, anodized / brushed aluminum, came up so well my mate wanted his iphone 5 done with it, very happy with the quality, I specifically chose a very detailed image and scaled it right down, the Trotec did a great job replicating it.

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Close up shot
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[Glen Monaghan]

You engraved the display screen (3rd picture)???

[Scott Shepherd]

That's the black back Glen.

[Bert Kemp]

Yikes I surely hope its the back:eek:



That's the black back Glen.

[Scott Shepherd]

Yikes I surely hope its the back:eek:

Since is says "iPhone", where it's made, the CE label, and the apple logo, I think it's a safe bet that it's the back, along with the fact that I think he's smart enough to figure out which side needs to be engraved ;)

[Jack Clague]

yes its the back haha... not missing that many brain cells (yet)

[Jacob John]

That is a beautiful piece of machinery. I am so damn jealous. :)

[Jack Clague]

Hi Guys,

I made a light box last night using makercase and opal white acrylic sheets, the finger slots are not a press fit so I will need to bond the pieces together, any suggestions to what I can use?

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[Scott Shepherd]

Weld On #16.

[Jack Clague]

Weld On #16.

Many Thanks Scott, will see who can supply that here in AU, any tips to applying?

[Scott Shepherd]

It's like model glue, it's runny, but a little thicker than the #3 that most people use. No real tips, just slather it on best you can and try not to get it where you don't want it :)

[Jack Clague]

It's like model glue, it's runny, but a little thicker than the #3 that most people use. No real tips, just slather it on best you can and try not to get it where you don't want it :)


Ha, sounds allot like my CA and other bonding glues for my flying hobby