Cherry Secretary - suggestions on fitting lid?

[Terry D May]

I'm nearing completion of an early American period secretary. I've saved the desk lid for last (no particular reason). I've got it nearly finished, but I'm not sure how to handle the hinge joint between the fixed writing surface and the lid.

Both the desk surface and lid are the same thickness, but the lip of the top drawer overlaps the bottom of the desk surface by about a quarter of an inch. It seems that the lip will prevent the lid from opening fully. There will be a bead milled on the bottom (when opened) of the lid that will remove a little material but not much. Hopefully the pictures will make it clear what I'm talking about. I'm still waiting on hardware (read as 'saving money for hardware'), which is why the gallery door is not attached.

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to handle this hinged joint? (I've got the rabbets on the top and sides figured out, just not sure how to ensure there will be clearance for the top drawer lip.) My design is based primarily on pictures of period pieces, along with techniques borrowed from articles on building other styles of secretaries, so I don't actually have a set of plans to go by..

Thanks for any input,
Terry

[Gene Davis]

Looks beautiful so far, but I gotta say, to have reached this point in a project without having worked out the mechanics of movement and hardware, well, it just surprises me.

[Yonak Hawkins]

Terry, that's a nice looking piece of furniture. It looks like the lid support is below the top of the drawer face, which exacerbates the problem, it seems to me. The only four solutions I can think of, and none of them are attractive, are :

• Devise a way for the top drawer front to fold down and out of the way.

• Have the lid fold out and down so there would be a gap between the desk surface and the lid.

• Have the lid fold down high, above the desk surface.

• Make the top drawer narrower.

[Pat Barry]

IThere will be a bead milled on the bottom (when opened) of the lid that will remove a little material but not much.

I think you need to make this more than a bead. You need to make it big enough to clear the top drawer front. I would take a scrap piece, and make a rabbet along that entire edge, set it in place and tweak the rabbet with a small roundover or a bead if you like to make the appearance what you are looking for

[Robert LaPlaca]

Terry secretary looks great. I built a couple of the secretaries featured in FWW design by Lonnie Bird, so I know the quandary that you are in, the top center drawer in the lower case needs to lose the rabbited thumbnail bead on the top of the drawer, otherwise the lid will never open.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Very nice work...

Not sure how you envision the top and side rabbets, but if you bevel the hinge edge of the top, does it give you enough clearance for the drawer front..?? i.e.

319980

[Al Launier]

Absolutely nice work!


I think the resolution is not with the hinges, but with a modification to the lid or drawer lip.
How much does the lip of the drawer protrude above the drawer opening?
Any opportunity to lower the top edge of the front drawer panel by reshaping it while still allowint it to support the lid when the lid is opened? (No doubt you've already thought of this, but I had to ask.)
Opportunity for a "decorative groove" along edges of the lid that will be located to match the position of the opened drawer lip & "sit" on it for support when in use. Groove would be deep enough to sit on the drawer lip at the correct height.

[Patrick McCarthy]

Terry, appears to be done well, so well worth the time to figure out a save. I do not have the experience of the others, and Yonak has pretty much summed it up. That being said, the one thought I have is a variation of Patrick Barry's suggestion. My thought would be to essentially make a plumb cut on the bottom leading edge of the door, kind of an over- sized chamfer.
set it up with scrap to see how much removal is necessary, as you do not want to have the hinge screws protruding, obviously.
you may also have to lower the top edge of the drawer front, depending upo how much overlap you have to work with. Hopefully, with a little removal here, little there, it will work.
also have some concern about the supports; it appears the top of the support arm may be below the elevation of the top of the drawer front . If so, you may have to make taller supports and increase the height of the slot into which they slide. I am hoping it is just picture angle that is giving wrong perspective.

edit: exactly like Malcolm diagramed. Obviously I am the slowest typist of the forum. Good luck.

[Patrick McCarthy]

Malcolm, we think alike, and that ought to scare the heck out of YOU .

Terry, on the bottom plumb cut, make sure that you have enough depth for your screws. I do not know (but sure others here can help) if they make hinges that are a bit longer so you can get full purchase of the screws into the top.

good luck and please let us know the ultimate solution. Patrick

[Patrick McCarthy]

Terry, what is the thickness of the lid?
I assume the elevation of the side supports is tied into that thickness, otherwise I was wondering the feasibility of thinning the lid . . . .

[Malcolm McLeod]

This is like FWW Tool Tip isn't it? -- best suggestion wins the secretary.

Be right back, gotta clean the drool off the keyboard.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Terry secretary looks great. I built a couple of the secretaries featured in FWW design by Lonnie Bird, so I know the quandary that you are in, the top center drawer in the lower case needs to lose the rabbited thumbnail bead on the top of the drawer, otherwise the lid will never open.

A picture is worth a thousand words.. 319987

[Terry D May]

Hi Malcolm,

I had considered a solution like you suggested, but I'm not sure how it would look, or the impact on the structural integrity of the piece. But it definitely would solve the problem.

[Terry D May]

Hi Patrick,

Yes the lid supports are designed for the full thickness of the lid. So I I don't think I want to go down the road of thinning the lid, but I see where you're coming from.

[Terry D May]

Thanks for all the replies so far! Sounds like there are two best options:

1) Notch the bottom edge of the lid (somehow) to accommodate the top drawer lip
2) Remove the lip of the top drawer (e.g. reduce the drawer height by a quarter inch)

I think I'm leaning with the second option. I'm guessing this is the way the originals pieces were built? My mistake for not considering movement of the parts collectively (and definitely not the first mistake on this project). But at least the solution will involve removing wood instead of having to put it back!

Thanks again for the comments. I'll post a follow up when I get the lid ready.

Terry

[Terry D May]

Hi Robert,

That is what I suspected. It makes since to not have a lip on the top drawer now that you mention it. When building the drawers I was just focusing on the spacing and fitting of drawers. Fortunately removing the lip and re-doing the bead should be an easy alteration.

Thanks for the advice!

[Terry D May]

Hi Al,

All good suggestions. I think will alter the drawer face as you and Robert suggested. I suspect that is the appropriate solution. Now that I think about it, I'm sure I've seen secretaries where the top of the upper drawer is obviously not lipped, and I think the issue of clearance for the opened lid is the reason why.

Terry

[Terry D May]

Robert,

I wasn't able to open your attachment, but I've reworked the top drawer with a lip only on the sides. I've attached some pictures showing the detail of the drawer edges. (Hopefully the visualization will help someone else avoid the same mistake.)

Now the lid will be unobstructed and the hinged joint will be a simple butt joint. Thanks again to all who offered suggestions.320016320017

[Andrew Hughes]

Along with your woodworking I really like the even color of the cherry.Maybe all from the same tree?Its just gonna get better looking with age! Thanks for sharing your work.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Terry, yes that is exactly the solution that I was describing to you.. As you have stated, thankfully the solution entailes reducing the net height of the drawer front (no board stretchers are required), then re-profiling the thumbnail on the top of the drawer front a simple fix... I good luck with the rest of your build, the secretary looks great.. I used a sacrificial popular to work out how the lid fit to the lower case..


Jeez it looks like I made a boo boo uploading my image, jeez sorry, but our solutions are identical? 320055