what bandsaw should I get for this one job?

[Tom M King]

Yeah, I know....another which bandsaw should I get, but hopefully this is a little bit different. We need to resaw 8,000 lineal feet of Cypress mostly 5" thick cuts to make shingles I can't get anywhere else. The saw may not ever be used again, or it might. The only bandsaw I have right now is an old Delta 14" with riser that someone gave me which has never even been plugged in here.

I'm leaning towards a 24" Grizzly, but also checking CL. There is a Hitachi resaw 75 listed on CL an hour and a half away, but the guy is not responding.

Opinions welcomed on saw and blade.

[Jamie Buxton]

8000 feet? I'd look to a big saw, plus a power feeder. In the old days, there were bandsaws all set up for this task, including the power feeder. Back east, you might get lucky if you ping machinery dealers.

[Tom M King]

I have some feeders laying around. 4,000 pieces 2' long. It doesn't have to be all done in one shot-no deadline. The guys will probably run a hundred or two pieces at the time. I've seen some big bandsaws on CL, but I don't want to get into changing motors. It'll probably get set up in the yard at the old house. I'm thinking a carbide blade, or several, on a 24" saw should do fine for this one job.

[Andrew Hughes]

Will a powered feeder taper the shingle? I have never laid cypress shingles I'd be interested to see how they look.

[Myk Rian]

A good old Delta 20" with a 1" re-saw blade will do it.

[Tom M King]

Yeah, I wish I still had the old Delta 20" I bought and sold for another job 30 years ago. Might go with a sled with a vacuum hold on the work piece-have done similar to that before too. I can drive a couple of hours and buy a Woodtek from Woodworkers Supply, but haven't looked at them yet.

The original Cypress shingles on the roof of this house can be seen if you scroll down on the "structural" page on my website. They were the roof on the house from 1850 to 1986, when Terne tin was put over them. Cypress shingles were standard building materials around this part of the country from the late 1600's through the middle 1800's. 16 million were shipped out of the port of Edenton from 1771 until the Revolution in 1776. They were number 2 on cargo bulk shipped out of there during that period, behind barrel staves. It's not unusual for them to last 150 years, but they have to be made out of good heartwood, and be applied properly-which is different than what is known today as standard wood shingle and shake installation.

[Erik Loza]

....The saw may not ever be used again, or it might...

Alternate suggestion: Buy an Italian saw, use it, then re-sell on the open market as soon as you are done. You'd probably get at least 2/3rds the value back out of it and if the phone calls I take are any indicataion, guys would line up to buy something like that at a discount. I can easily see you killing a cheap bandsaw or spending more time fixing a "Craiglslist Special" than actually running it. Best of luck, whatever you decide to do.

Erik

[Tom M King]

Eric, that's a good idea. Just found a Laguna LT16HD on CL for a price cheap enough for just this one job. Would that saw be enough saw....16 seems a little small, but I'm not really a bandsaw guy?

[Erik Loza]

Eric, that's a good idea. Just found a Laguna LT16HD on CL for a price cheap enough for just this one job. Would that saw be enough saw....16 seems a little small, but I'm not really a bandsaw guy?

Personally, I would go for a 20" or 24".

Erik

[Tom M King]

That's what I was thinking. At 1100 bucks, the Laguna looks like a good buy and maybe worth a try, but I'll bow to your experience, and if you say it's not enough saw, I'll go with a bigger saw. Even the old growth Heart Cypress is still a fairly soft wood. Really appreciate the advice.

[Jamie Buxton]

And a carbide blade, like the Lenox Woodmaster CT. Higher initial cost than plain steel, but the longer life makes it the less expensive choice long-term.

[Erik Loza]

The reason I say to go bigger is that you have the additional mass of the flywheels working for you and just a heavier overall machine, since you mentioned using a feeder. But, if you can get an ACM saw for $1,100 and don't necessarily care if it lasts, then I would definitely go for that over a newer Chaiwanese one. If you kill it, it was still probably cheaper and if it lives, they you flip it and get most of the cash back.

You appear to be in the enviable position of having the option of a used Italian machien available locally for a good price. That's an element not often available.

Erik

[Tom M King]

Thanks so much!! I'm going to tell the guy I will get it. Hopefully it will last, but if it doesn't it will not be a serious disaster, but a good bonus if it does.

[rudy de haas]

An alternate suggestion..

You say you have about 4,000 pieces, each 2 feet long and you want to make shingles? Do you want the shingles to be thicker at one end than the other? If so this could be a nasty job with any band saw - and before you buy anything I'd suggest you find a friend with a 20" saw and try a few.

On the other, the job is relatively easy for a shop with the right (horizontal and $100K+ ) gear to push everything through in a few hours. In your place I'd go looking for someone with that kind of tools in place willing to contract the job.

[Tom M King]

Thanks. Yes, tapered. 5/8" on the thick end. Quotes so far for farming it out have been 8k and above, plus I'd have to carry the wood there, and then go get it-so basically a dollar and above per shingle, plus two times at least more than a half day on the road. We've already run some on a friends small bandsaw, and it wasn't that bad of a job even without anything like an ideal setup. Janka is only 25% harder than Basswood.

The plan is to keep the wood on a trailer, going straight off the trailer to be cut to length, and then immediately through the bandsaw, into the loader bucket, followed by up to the roof when the loader bucket has enough in it. Tarp will go over saws at end of day, and trailer back in shed.

Plus, the wood is not cheap, and the owners feel better about getting me to do it than farming it out. We do almost everything on a house, and this is not too far out of line for what we do every day. Check out my website to maybe get an idea of what a day on the job is like for us:
www.HistoricHousePreservation.com (http://www.HistoricHousePreservation.com)

[Tom M King]

Someone else beat me to the Laguna. It only lasted a few hours on CL.

[Jay Jolliffe]

Do you know someone with a sawmill ? You can get a jig to hold the blocks to cut the shingles....Where I live a friend has one....looks to work really well

[Judson Green]

Have you thought of just doing it on your Delta? Maybe make a overlay table, with a fence incorporated and room and mountings for your feeder. Get a super carbide whatever blade and have at it. If you just doing an hour a day or so... just a thought.

Maybe your fence is made of casters

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Someone else beat me to the Laguna. It only lasted a few hours on CL.

Out on the other coast, there is this 36" Kimwood resaw bandsaw 20 hp double power feed. Fun to look at. But a lot of money. http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/bfd/5143119644.html
http://images.craigslist.org/00O0O_a7NXUzVx5zl_600x450.jpg

[Tom M King]

Do you know someone with a sawmill ? You can get a jig to hold the blocks to cut the shingles....Where I live a friend has one....looks to work really well

I've seen those, but it would require a lot of steps. Our setup will not require the guys doing the feeding, and stacking to have to move more than a few steps each.

[Tom M King]

Have you thought of just doing it on your Delta? Maybe make a overlay table, with a fence incorporated and room and mountings for your feeder. Get a super carbide whatever blade and have at it. If you just doing an hour a day or so... just a thought.

Maybe your fence is made of casters
I found a horse and a half 1725 rpm Baldor that my Dad had this afternoon. I don't have anything to put it on but that bandsaw anyway, so I ordered a cast iron 3" pulley for it. I needed to get that bandsaw going anway. I'm going to see how long it takes the guys to run a hundred pieces through it when I get the chance. This wood cuts like butter with anything I've run it through so far. I'm not sure if we're going to use a feeder, or a sled I have designed in my head with a vacuum place holder. We'll just use a sled for this run.

[Tom M King]

Out on the other coast, there is this 36" Kimwood resaw bandsaw 20 hp double power feed. Fun to look at. But a lot of money. http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/bfd/5143119644.html
http://images.craigslist.org/00O0O_a7NXUzVx5zl_600x450.jpg
I don't know if my tractor with loader could even pick that thing up. There are some fairly cheap old, big iron bandsaws on CL in these parts, but I don't expect to go that route. I want something the guys can run for a while without me having to come down off the roof to fiddle with it.

[Bruce Wrenn]

The sawyer at the state fair used to have a shingle mill. Contact the fair and see if they could have him give you a call. (They won't give out his phone #.) Woodmizer makes a shingle attachment for their mills. You could possibly get someone who has a Woodmizer to saw them. Contact Woodmizer to see if anyone close to you has such. Check with with Scott Smith as he may have a shingle mill for his Baker horizontal saw.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I must be the dumb one in the conversation.

Describe for me the wood. You have 5" thick slabs of cypress. 5" thick x what width x what length?

And - what do the finished shingles look like? For example: 6" wide x 8" long. the grain runs from the fat 3/4" end to the thin 3/8" end. [instead of the grain running across the slope.] Or maybe - the shingles are not "wedge shaped" at all - just thin slices of wood?

And you you have to take these out of 5" thick by 6" wide x 10' slabs? So you need to cut the slabs to 8" long, then cut tapers in them to get the 6" x 8" shingles with the grain in the proper orientation?

I know how to do that, and I know the equipment that will do it, and that equipment has a high resale value %, .........but I am not sure I understand what you are starting with and what the end product looks like......... so maybe I know doodly-squat.

[Peter Quinn]

I'm thinking a 20" or better saw with the quickest blade speed you can do and a carbide blade, foot actuated vacuum clamp on a sled, 2 operators: one feed, one catch and bundle. If the average shingle is 5" width and its all cypress thats not much stress on the machine. Is the lumber green? Most shingles we get here are still pretty moist, sawing green lumber may benefit from a blade with that purpose in mind...ie they make blades for sawing green lumber with wider set to remove the mush that it creates more effectively. I know they have shingle machines, and if you find one or get use of one that may be cost effective...but the videos I've seen of them make them look like an amputee station, the bandsaw may be a safer option on your volume for a single job. Sounds like an ambitious project!

As a side note I've used a 24" grizzly at work in the past, I think that saw would be more than up to this task should you go that way.

[Larry Frank]

I would look for a shingle cutter. I have seen them at historic equipment and steam shows many times. I think you might make a deal with them to cut the shingles.

Just a thought as setting up to cut them on a bandsaw will take some time. You could use your current bandsaw to run trials as to the best way and how long it will take.

[Tom M King]

I must be the dumb one in the conversation.

Describe for me the wood. You have 5" thick slabs of cypress. 5" thick x what width x what length?

And - what do the finished shingles look like? For example: 6" wide x 8" long. the grain runs from the fat 3/4" end to the thin 3/8" end. [instead of the grain running across the slope.] Or maybe - the shingles are not "wedge shaped" at all - just thin slices of wood?

And you you have to take these out of 5" thick by 6" wide x 10' slabs? So you need to cut the slabs to 8" long, then cut tapers in them to get the 6" x 8" shingles with the grain in the proper orientation?

I know how to do that, and I know the equipment that will do it, and that equipment has a high resale value %, .........but I am not sure I understand what you are starting with and what the end product looks like......... so maybe I know doodly-squat.

5" wide. 22" to 24" long by 5" wide. 7" will be exposed. We're getting the wood sawn 4 quarters thick. We're sticking close to the old shingles, but only "improving" on the ones that failed at 131 years old-a little too thin and quartersawn. Ours will be a little thicker, and no quarter sawn individuals. Ours will mostly be the width of the widest ones on the roof, which are all still fine being thick enough and flat sawn. It looks like the soft grain eroded away enough on the quartersawn ones to allow water to freeze in the groove, splitting that shingle, but that's just my theory from what I see.

I've found a few old shingle mills, but no one who wants this much work to do. We aren't cutting the wood into blocks that would work on them anyway. 4/4 looks like the best way to get the least amount of waste, and no trouble finding a mill to do that.

I've already run some trials, and it works fine even on a saw that is theoretically not up to the task. The wood Jankas around 540 and is very stable. It's also dry.

Scroll down on the "structural" page on my website, and I believe there is one picture of the 131 year old shingles: www.HistoricHousePreservation.com (http://www.HistoricHousePreservation.com)

I've seen the Woodmizer shingle cutter, but our method will require a lot less footsteps, and I don't have to carry the wood anywhere else. The cuts don't have to be perfect, just fairly close. My method will allow the guys to take the wood off the trailer, and end up in the loader bucket to be lifted up to the roof with very few footsteps.

We will use three operators-maybe four. One takes a board off the trailer, cuts it to length-might put two guys on this step. Next guy takes cut to length piece and feeds it through bandsaw to cut taper. Third guy catches the two shingles at the outfeed, and stacks them into the loader bucket. "Building something is not about knowing what goes where. It's about how you get the plywood in the house."-Randolph Pierce 73 years old in 1973. I don't build stuff with a telephone and a truck.

I've been approached by a cable TV show production company about filming one of my projects. I'm thinking this might be a good one.

[Andrew Hughes]

Out here on the west coast we call that size Royals,That's a nice roof shingle.If you plan on hand nailing I got two nail strippers that are collecting dust you are welcome to use.
My roofing days are done so you would not need to send them back.

[Tom M King]

Andrew, I appreciate the offer, but I'm not a purist to the point of wearing Lindsey-Woolsey underwear. I'll be shooting these: http://www.amazon.com/Senco-N19BGBN-Crown-Stainless-Staple/dp/B00B5LJ9MS/ref=sr_1_4?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1439746422&sr=1-4&keywords=senco+7%2F16%22+crown+staples I have Cedar shake roofs I put on 40 years ago with the galvanized version of that which are still in great shape without losing a shingle even through three hurricanes here. The originals have one hand forged nail in the middle or each shingle 15" up from the bottom. I won't be putting any on the edges either, but will play with putting a couple offset near the middle high and low on each 5/4 Heart Pine purlin to see what I like best when I get into it. Purlins are 3-1/2" wide with a 3-1/2" space between them.

[Andrew Hughes]

I hear Ya Tom the crown nailer is a good choice,we use them out here for shakes when shakes are allowed.I like the look of a wood roof done right.As I mentioned my roofing days are done tendonitis in both elbows.Shuffling boards around he wood shop is hard enough.
I saw the link of the House that's quite the project.Ill prey that it goes well for you and safe.

[mark mcfarlane]

Does the Cypress need to be treated for fire resistance?

FWIW, I paid a lot of money to have Cedar kindling' removed from a house before I would move in. Seems like they attracted bottle rockets in the Houston area, and it saved me a bit on insurance.

[Peter Quinn]

Does the Cypress need to be treated for fire resistance?

FWIW, I paid a lot of money to have Cedar kindling' removed from a house before I would move in. Seems like they attracted bottle rockets in the Houston area, and it saved me a bit on insurance.

Must be a regional thing. Here in New England, its plenty wet plenty of the time, and we don't get dry lightening. Cedar shake is a premium roof and they typically go 100+ years, no fire retardant. Siding too. If I lived in certain parts of California , Colorado, or Arizona not a chance in America I would use cedar for siding or roofing. Clay sounds good. Perhaps Texas should be on the list of places to not use wood roofs? Lots and lots of sun, occasional 10 year droughts, forrest fires, not conducive with wood roofs. But wood roofs are quite happy in the Pacific Northwest generally.

[Tom M King]

Fire is not much of a worry where this house is, or even around here generally. It's in a quiet Historic town with a fire hydrant at the street, and a Fire Department a hundred yards away. There is no difference in insurance cost because of a wood roof, or any such other building material exclusions.

[Mike Schuch]

I thought shingles were supposed to be split not sawn? When you split wood you aren't opening up the pores of the wood to moisture like sawing the wood does? I am no shingle expert though!

[Don Sundberg]

I believe shakes are split and shingles are sawn.

Have you looked around to see if there are any antique farm machinery clubs that may have an operational shingle mill? You may get same help and motive power to run it just because you are giving them an excuse to run the toys.

[Tom M King]

The originals on the house, made in 1850, are sawn. There was all sorts of steam powered equipment around here after 1818 at least. Yes, shakes split, and shingles sawn. I've talked to some of those guys, but this job is to the size of being real work, and those guys just want to play.

[Jesse Busenitz]

Tom, I'd love to see your operation/process once you get it up and running. Totally new aspect of woodworking.

[Scott T Smith]

Yeah, I know....another which bandsaw should I get, but hopefully this is a little bit different. We need to resaw 8,000 lineal feet of Cypress mostly 5" thick cuts to make shingles I can't get anywhere else. The saw may not ever be used again, or it might. The only bandsaw I have right now is an old Delta 14" with riser that someone gave me which has never even been plugged in here.

I'm leaning towards a 24" Grizzly, but also checking CL. There is a Hitachi resaw 75 listed on CL an hour and a half away, but the guy is not responding.

Opinions welcomed on saw and blade.

Tom, have you considered finding a sawyer with a shingle making attachment for their sawmill? Woodmizer makes one and you might find someone within driving distance that can make the shingles a lot easier than you can with a vertical bandsaw.

[Tom M King]

I've seen that Woodmizer rig, but it would require a LOT of footsteps and handling. I'm getting the wood sawn into 4/4 boards. I bought a used Centauro 600 for the resaw. See post #27

[Tom M King]

Tom, I'd love to see your operation/process once you get it up and running. Totally new aspect of woodworking.
It will be well documented with pictures, and movie of the shingle making on my website.

[Bill Adamsen]

Tom: That machine should work great for the intended purpose. I added a fence to the stock iron fence of my CO700 and love the machine, previously had a slab of bb screwed to it and that worked great too. The machine can adequately tension a larger blade and that makes the cutting very smooth.

[Tom M King]

I feel like it should do fine. Now that we've answered the saw question, the blade question still remains. It looks like to me that we are past the Resaw King stage now.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Tom, call Woodcraft Bands and ask for their recommendation.

[paul cottingham]

Buy a froe. Split em by hand. Cheap, and good exercise. :-)

[Tom M King]

I've done that, but it's not in the budget for this job.

I was looking at some band site last night, and decided I probably need to call. I didn't realize there were so many variables. Probably going with one of the Lennox carbide tipped blades, but quite a number of different decisions to make other than tooth count.

[Kent Adams]

Tom, check the craigslist for Greensboro. There are several monster size bandsaws in there, some with 42" throat clearance, a Crescent and a Tannewitz, all for under $1600. You'd be hard pressed to find better deals on these monster saws.

[Tom M King]

Thanks. I had seen those, but got a Centauro 600 for 600 bucks.