Do I need a new router?

[Jake Elkins]

I've always made raised panels (coves) and rail and stile profiles on the table saw. This is time consuming, with lots of sanding and fidgeting. I want to make a bunch of window treatments for the house, and I'm thinking its time for full sized (3.25 in) raised panel bits and rail-stile bits. I've got a few routers, but my largest is the 2hp bosch 1617 combo router. I have a router table. I am thinking about Whiteside bits, to the tune of 200 bucks or so for the sets.

Is it worth upgrading to a 3.25+hp router? I've made it 10+ years and never had a problem with the Bosch, so I don't see myself using a large router after this job too much, but it is appealing to think of having a dedicated router table router. Budget is, of course, tight. No coin for shapers, etc.

If I do upgrade, any opinions on a good budget big router? I've heard good things about the Triton.

I appreciate your response. Thanks.

[Leo Graywacz]

New router. Yes. Of course you need one.

[Wade Lippman]

I had a 2hp Bosch and upgraded to a 3.5hp Freud. The difference in power was pretty obvious.
Do you need it? No. Go slow, take small cuts, etc. etc. But I recommend the upgrade.

[Leo Graywacz]

If you do enough panels then get a shaper.

[pat warner]

Often routers are actually sold at a loss!
Even at 250-350$, those in the router pipe line, don't make money.
The money is in the cutters. 5 or 10 cutters = 1-1.5 router$.
Would not hesitate to get a big router, nevertheless.
However, in my view, no 110vac router should see cutters larger or longer than 2".
Raised panel cutters belong in the shaper; a tool made from such demanding work.

[Tom Giacomo]

If you do go for a larger router speed control and soft start would be advised.

[Rick Fisher]

The only router I have run a big cutter in and not felt .. weird .. is the Festool 2200. It seems to handle big cutters way nicer than anything else I have tried.. but its shockingly expensive ..

[Paul Wunder]

I had the same questions regarding occasional raised panels when buying a router. My local Woodcraft store owner (he also runs a community shop on his second floor) told me that he runs 2 1/4 HP routers exclusively for customers needing to make panels. He opined that for the occasional panel maker a 2 1/4 HP is perfectly adequate although you will need to make lighter cuts.

[Jim Dwight]

I have 4 routers I use regularly and a couple others that I may have thrown out or may still have somewhere. I have made raised panels using a 3 inch diameter bit in one of my PC690s - roughly equivalent to your Bosch. It worked fine but you have to give it little bites. I use a little bit bigger motor, 13.3A, in my main router table and it works slightly better for big bits. I still have to take multiple bites. The cheapest 15A router may be a Hitachi:

http://www.toolbarn.com/hitachi-m12ve.html?gclid=CJiSitvXo8cCFRCCaQodIoAICQ&ad=60682793534

A little over $200. It is a plunge router so you could put a "router raiser" on it to have screw adjustable height adjustment.

I don't think a bigger router will be a huge change in capability but it is nice to have multiple routers so you don't have to keep moving bits in and out and the motor in and out of bases. I put my biggest into the router table. Heavier routers are harder to use hand-held.

[Curt Harms]

Is it worth upgrading to a 3.25+hp router? I've made it 10+ years and never had a problem with the Bosch, so I don't see myself using a large router after this job too much, but it is appealing to think of having a dedicated router table router. Budget is, of course, tight. No coin for shapers, etc.

If I do upgrade, any opinions on a good budget big router? I've heard good things about the Triton.

I appreciate your response. Thanks.

If you're not in a hurry, I'd keep an eye on bigskytools.com. They often have reconditioned 3+ h.p. Hitachi routers for pretty low $$. The downside to Hitachi AFAIK is that they don't have above-the-table height adjustment. I have a Freud (no longer available in the U.S.) with a router raizer and it works well. You'd have to consider the cost of a router + router raizer or lift mechanism. If you're not concerned about above-the-table height adjustment you might get a like-new Hitachi for around $130-$150. The new ones are kinda ugly but under the table, who cares?

[Mike Schuch]

NO DEFINITELY NOT!!!! When you get into panel raising, rail and style doors it is time for a SHAPER!!!!!

I have 2 shapers and both of them were cheaper than my Porter Cable 7538 3hp plunge router with the router raizer attachment.

Since you don't have the tooling for your router just jump into the shaper world and skip the high power router table. My Walker Turner 3hp shaper was $200 and the VFD was $150. My 1ph Sunhill 5hp sliding table shaper was $300 with a good Freeborn rail and stile set and a changeable head with a few knives. The replacement bearings for the Sunhill were only about $100. The sliding table is great for end cuts on rails. After about 10 years of owning a shaper I finally scored a good buy on a power feeder. My pretty sturdy router table would have had to been rebuilt to support the 1hp powerfeeder.

For a home shop I have found the Grizzly shaper cutters to be excellent and very close to the cost of comparable router bits! If you need to ship 3000 kitchen cabinet doors this month then the high priced shaper cutters are a good investment.


http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/tls/5158414304.html

[Jake Elkins]

I would love to get a shaper, but I have a couple of issues. First, I really don't have 230 available in the garage as all my slots are taken, so I can't run most of the used shapers that I come across without swapping out the motor or running an extension line from my dryer or oven. I know there are some smaller stationary 1.5 hp shapers from grizzly or shop fox, but the amps are the same on the motor as for a large router, so I wonder if these could really spin those larger bits better than a large router. Finally money is an issue. I've got a line out for a used green pm model 26 shaper for 400, but I would still need to buy cutters, etc. Finally, it might be hard to hide the shaper from the wife, with accusatory questions ensuing. A router I can stuff in a drawer with no questions asked.

So, from reading the above, I've got anywhere from "the bosch is fine with little bites" to "definitely need a shaper". Of course I appreciate all the input, but curious to know if anyone else has any sage advice. Thanks again.

[Mike Heidrick]

You own the bosch and have convinced yourself you are not using a shaper so get the router bit and give it a try on the bosch. It will do it fine. If you want a 3.25 router get a milwaukee 5625 and use it in a table dedcated and use its built in through table adjustments. It will be cheaper than a hitachi and router raiser. Should run you $250.

[John T Thomas]

The Triton 3+ hp router is on sale this month at Rockler for $229.

Pretty good deal if you ask me.

[Mike Schuch]

I would love to get a shaper, but I have a couple of issues. First, I really don't have 230 available in the garage as all my slots are taken, so I can't run most of the used shapers that I come across without swapping out the motor or running an extension line from my dryer or oven. I know there are some smaller stationary 1.5 hp shapers from grizzly or shop fox, but the amps are the same on the motor as for a large router, so I wonder if these could really spin those larger bits better than a large router. Finally money is an issue. I've got a line out for a used green pm model 26 shaper for 400, but I would still need to buy cutters, etc. Finally, it might be hard to hide the shaper from the wife, with accusatory questions ensuing. A router I can stuff in a drawer with no questions asked.

So, from reading the above, I've got anywhere from "the bosch is fine with little bites" to "definitely need a shaper". Of course I appreciate all the input, but curious to know if anyone else has any sage advice. Thanks again.

A router is perfectly capable of the operations you want to do you! You do not "NEED A SHAPER" for those operations BUT if you are going to invest in new tooling and a new router I think a shaper would be a much better investment.

Both of my Powermatic cabinet saws are green and I would value green models higher than the newer versions. Check out the Grizzly shaper cutters, they are reasonably priced and give an excellent finish. The Grizzly cutters I have all give me much better results than the equivalent router bits and the cost is very close to the equivalent router bits.

For door raising, rail and style work I would recommend a 3/4" shaper spindle or larger. My Walker Turner shaper has a 3/4" spindle and it has always handled everything I have thrown at it... rail and stile, panel raising, lock miters, etc. You will be able to get other spindles for a green Powermatic, my Walker Turner is unique enough that a different spindle would be close to the cost of a new shaper. To me the spindle stiffness is more important than the shaper hp when it comes to large cutters and 3/4" is the sweet spot for a home shop. My Sunhill shaper has a 1 1/4" and 3/4" spindle. 1 1/4" cutters are bigger and more expensive. To me 1 1/4" cutters make a lot of sense if you are going to run the shaper all day every day in a production environment. In a hobby environment 3/4" cutters are more than sufficient and a huge step up from router bits!

I would advise that running a long cord to the dryer outlet will be worth the hassle. I find that I don't use my shapers frequently but when I do use them I am generally pushing through quite a bit of stock. If I had to run an extension cord to the dryer outlet every time I wanted to drill a hole with my hand held drill that would drive me crazy. But with a shaper... plug it in, run a lot of stock, put it away. My WT shaper actually shares a VFD (variable frequency drive) with my 3ph radial arm saw which I use extensively. Because of the usage pattern of a shaper the unplugging and plugging in of power cables has never been an issue.

Extra slots can be easily made available in a breaker box by swapping a pair of full height breakers for the half height double 220v breaker modules. I have done this several times in my home as I am also out of blanks in my breaker panel. A wood shop really needs 220v capability and the investment to put in a 220v run will pay off quite a bit in the long run.

As far as the WAF (wife acceptance factor) goes just throw a nice table cloth over the shaper and put it in the corner of the living room. Your wife will think it is an end table and never suspect a thing! Trust me, it will work. ;)


Large panel raising and rail and stile router bits need to be run at slower speeds. Is your Bosch router variable speed? I would not worry about the hp of your Bosch router, I would be much more worried about the bearing sizes and bearing capacity on the router. Big router bits create a lot of side forces on router bearings. When I got my first router, a Porter Cable 690, I used it for cutting lock miters. It took no time at all for the bearings in my 690 to go bad. Luckily bearings in routers (at least the 690) can be replaced pretty easily. My 690 is a 1 3/4hp I believe. I would expect your Bosch bearings to be bigger than my 690 but still not the size and capacity of 3hp+ routers.

I wish I had just skipped over the whole fancy router table phase and gone directly to a shaper. My used shapers have been considerably less expensive than my fancy router table.

[Keith Hankins]

I've always made raised panels (coves) and rail and stile profiles on the table saw. This is time consuming, with lots of sanding and fidgeting. I want to make a bunch of window treatments for the house, and I'm thinking its time for full sized (3.25 in) raised panel bits and rail-stile bits. I've got a few routers, but my largest is the 2hp bosch 1617 combo router. I have a router table. I am thinking about Whiteside bits, to the tune of 200 bucks or so for the sets.

Is it worth upgrading to a 3.25+hp router? I've made it 10+ years and never had a problem with the Bosch, so I don't see myself using a large router after this job too much, but it is appealing to think of having a dedicated router table router. Budget is, of course, tight. No coin for shapers, etc.

If I do upgrade, any opinions on a good budget big router? I've heard good things about the Triton.

I appreciate your response. Thanks.

I'll give you the same response when my wife (13 years ago) said you don't "NEED" a Harley, my response was madam, "NEED" has nothing to do with it. :)

get the router. I've been making my panels with the PC7518 forever and it's sweet.

[michael langman]

I looked at 3 plus HP routers for a few years and the cost stopped me, until I bought the newer Hitachi M12 V router for under 200.00 new. I was extremely pleased with the features and quietness of the router.

It will do raised panels easily, and the height is adjustable from the top of my router table.

[Cody Colston]

First, unless you are frequently doing a lot of raised panels you don't need a shaper. Second, a 3+ hp router is a nice-to-have but not a necessity. I've had a 2.25 hp PC router in my table for years and have done many raised panels on it using a Whiteside raised panel bit. I'm getting ready to build cabinets for an outdoor kitchen and expect to use the same set-up again on the raised panel doors with no problems. I cut the raised profile in three passes, moving the fence back after every pass around the panel until I reach the desired profile. The last pass is very fine to eliminate/prevent any tear-out.

[Rich Engelhardt]

If you want a 3.25 router get a milwaukee 5625 and use it in a table dedcated and use its built in through table adjustments. It will be cheaper than a hitachi and router raiser. Should run you $250.That's what I did - but - it's more than $250.
A new 5625 runs about $309, and a plate for it for the table runs $99 (Woodpeckers) plus $34 for the insert rings and another $14 for the template for the plate if needed.

The good news though is that it's pretty easy to get one for next to no cost.
I opened a checking account(Key Bank), got a couple credit cards(PNC and Key Bank) and opened an online savings account ($500 min balance for 12 months) - which paid for almost the whole shebang...
I got $100 for opening the checking account for 6 months with direct deposit, $50 for the savings account and $100 each for getting the credit cards and putting $500 on each within the first 6 billing cycles. One of the credit cards has a zero % rate for 6 months and the other a zero % rate for 12 months.
(Just make sure you have the money to pay them off at the end since the APR is enormous of you don't....something like 24%...)

[Eric Anderson]

I'm currently running a PC7518 with variable speed to do raised panels with a 3" panel raising bit. That big of a bit needs slower speeds and I run at 10,000 rpm. I believe the PC690 runs at 24,000, way too fast for a big bit. Before I got the big boy, I used a vertical raised panel bit with a PC 690, and that works fine , but you must do a bunch of passes and have a good set up to support the door vertically instead of flat on the table. But that is a way to use a smaller non-variable speed router. I have built close to a hundred door panels with the PC7518 and all turned out fine. I also have the Hitachi M 12V, plunge router, but have never used it in a router table. It is a nice router and can handle pretty hard jobs easily. Lots of power. The PC routers have been around forever and are good heavy duty routers. The PC 7518 is the "standard" router table router. I leave my 7518 in the table all the time and it does everything I ask it, even smaller bits.

Good luck