Stanley Sweetheart Chisels First Fmpressions

[Daniel Rode]

My set of Stanley 750 Sweetheart chisels arrived this morning. I thought I'd record my first impressions and a few pictures. My experience with chisels has been Marples blue chips and other inexpensive sets. These all took a bit of effort to setup, especially flattening the faces. It's too early to tell, but the Stanley 750s appear to be much more carefully milled. My guess is that they will be much easier to setup.

My main reason for buying these was the "feel" of the chisel. I'd hoped they would be better balanced and that the handles would be more comfortable. They absolutely hit the mark in this respect. They feel very natural in my hand and the balance is fantastic. Nimble comes to mind. The are lighter than any of my other chisels and I expect then to be a pleasure to use.

The bevels look to be 30 degrees (I didn't measure). I'll probably regrind them to around 25 and use a secondary bevel at about 30. We'll see how they hold up and adjust from there. I may start out at 20/25 and only go steeper if I have to. I'll decide after the faces are done.

As for the fit and finish. They are good, better than any other set I've owned but not near what I'd expect from premium chisels. One handle, for example, has a dark spot. It's purely cosmetic, but the premium brands would have tossed it. In addition, the Stanley 750 logo on the 1/8" chisel is printed on the wrong side. So QA is marginal. This is in line with what I expected. These are not premium chisels. they are good chisels that cost me 1/3 as much. So far, they appear to be a good value for the money.

The steel came coated in lacquer, so I set them to soak in lacquer thinner for a while. I'll report more once I can start flattening the faces and honing the bevels.

Box and leather tool roll.
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Unlike previous reports indicated, the chisels did not ship in individual boxes. They were wrapped in plastic.
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Chisels sans plastic wrap.
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Here's the misprinted logo on the 1/8".
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The mill marks on the faces seem fine and very even. Straight horizontal lines make the think they were milled rather than sanded flat, but that's only a guess. It's tough to tell with the lacquer coating, but the milling seems very fine and should be easy to flatten and polish.
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The full set again.
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[Jim Koepke]

Dan,

I am curious about the box showing the sizes in inch and metric. Have you checked them to see if they are truly inch or are they metric sizes?

jtk

[Daniel Rode]

I have not measured them. When I bought the set, I assumed they were metric sizes and by feel, that seems to be the case. I'll put the calipers to a couple tonight the confirm.

[Daniel Rode]

Soooo, the part were I wrote:

It's too early to tell, but the Stanley 750s appear to be much more carefully milled. My guess is that they will be much easier to setup.

I was dead wrong. I flattened and sharpened 6 of the 8 yesterday and spent 6-7 hours doing it. Re-grinding the bevel and honing took maybe 5 minutes, so I spent more than an hour per chisel flattening the faces. The 1/4" and 3/8" still need more work. There's a low spot on each along one side and, despite their small sizes, it's taking a ton of work to get it all on one plane. This is with the X-course diamond plate - btw.

I can't help but to think that I'm doing something wrong when flattening; somehow causing a defect that I need to remove later. However, that seems to be debunked buy the fact that I do eventually get the all flat.

You find a lot of stuff to ponder when you spend all day on something like this.

[Mike Brady]

Dan, are you flattening the entire face of the chisel? and if so, why? Unless there is a convex area near the cutting edge that would prevent the the chisel blade from lying flat, I see no need to have more than a couple of inches of a chisel flattened. You won't likely find flat backs on chisels that are not in the premium quality price range. That is one of the features that makes a chisel cost more. You are making an investment of your time instead.

With that much time spent lapping blades on your diamond plate, it could mean that you have worn the diamonds off to a degree that the plate is no longer very effective. I prefer lapping with silicon carbide loose grit mixed with oil on a flat piece of metal plate. You can renew the grit easily and cheaply as you go along. This method yields very flat surfaces quickly.

[Brian Holcombe]

With the way factory chisels are made it doesnt surprise me that the backs require a lot of work and that the bevels do not. These are done in bulk, so the machine that grinds them likely has quite a few cycles before it is serviced.

I assume one of the major differences in production (material aside) between something like these and something like LN's are how narrow the acceptable range is for the machinery that makes the tools.

Back flattening has to be one of the most aggravating parts of setting up western tools, I've long contemplated (and probably will at some point) grinding a hollow into the backs of some of my plane blades just to make them more amenable to maintenance.

[Daniel Rode]

Mike,

I'm not flattening the entire face. I do work the entire back to some degree because I want it reasonably flat but I concentrate on the first 1 1/2" or so. I'll even leave a hollow in the center as long at the first 1/2" or so is entirely flat.

[Robert Engel]

I'm not surprised you're having that much work to do.
I purchased one 1/2" chisel just to check it out and wasn't impressed with the milling, either.

I wasn't impressed with the edge retention.

Overall, I think these chisels are over rated.

I actually lilke the Narex premiums better.

[Daniel Rode]

It's a lot of work, but about the same as other sets I've done.

If I were buying my first set of bench chisels today, Narex would be near the top of my list. In fact, I bought a Narex mortising chisel and it's terrific. However, there is no reason for me to consider Narex when I have two full sets of tang chisels. My Marples's blue chips are at least as good as the Narex and I like the handles better.

I think it's a mistake to compare these to Narex. Small socket chisels are a totally different style with unique handling. I think it's also a mistake to compare them to LN, Blue Spruce and the other premium makers. The Stanley Sweetheart 750s are not premium tools. They are (to me, anyway) work-a-day tools with the kind of quality control that comes with mass production and a lower price point.

I'm not sure why edge retention needs to be any better. I refresh the edge often while I work. It takes a few seconds to hone the edge. Even a full grind and hone only takes a couple minutes. I can see the advantage for a plane iron and it takes time to disassemble the plane, sharpen and then reset. A chisel is nothing to sharpen (freehand).

[ken hatch]

It's a lot of work, but about the same as other sets I've done.

If I were buying my first set of bench chisels today, Narex would be near the top of my list. In fact, I bought a Narex mortising chisel and it's terrific. However, there is no reason for me to consider Narex when I have two full sets of tang chisels. My Marples's blue chips are at least as good as the Narex and I like the handles better.

I think it's a mistake to compare these to Narex. Small socket chisels are a totally different style with unique handling. I think it's also a mistake to compare them to LN, Blue Spruce and the other premium makers. The Stanley Sweetheart 750s are not premium tools. They are (to me, anyway) work-a-day tools with the kind of quality control that comes with mass production and a lower price point.

I'm not sure why edge retention needs to be any better. I refresh the edge often while I work. It takes a few seconds to hone the edge. Even a full grind and hone only takes a couple minutes. I can see the advantage for a plane iron and it takes time to disassemble the plane, sharpen and then reset. A chisel is nothing to sharpen (freehand).

Dan,

Pretty much right on, both what the chisels are and sharpening. Of course as with all things wood.....YMMV.

ken

[John Kananis]

I received set of these from my wife last year as a gift...

The coating: Don't bother with lacquer thinner (waste of time, I also soaked mine over night) - not effective at all. Use a paint stripper or something similar and you'll have excellent results in 15-20 minutes or so.

The handles: Your handle isn't stamped incorrectly. The handles and the chisels are made separately and then assembled (mine came 'disassembled'). A light tap of the handle on your bench (while you 'carefully' hold the blade) will release it from the housing and you may re-seat it any way you like.

The backs: Oh goodness, they did require a good amount of work. I've found a 45 micron diamond paste on a piece of mdf to be extremely effective at flattening, more so than abrasive paper or stones (never mind the fact that you save your stones). The kit from Gramercy is perfect (45 micron, 15 micron and 1/2 micron) - I've allowed my precious water stones to start collecting a bit of dust ever since I started using the paste.

Edge retention: I've found the [EDIT] steel on these chisels to be extremely tough (why so many of us have such a hard time flattening). The 1/8 chisel in my set was a bit 'soft' at the edge but removing a bit of material provided a much better cutting edge.

My only real beef with these: The (side) bevel edges could be made a little less pronounced to allow a better fit when trimming dovetails etc. (I will spend a little time correcting this eventually).

Overall: Great set at a very good price. These can take a real pounding and hold an edge extremely well.

Enjoy the new toys.

[Brian Holcombe]

I'm not intending to compare them to LN directly, simply thinking through the range of manufactured tooling.

The only western chisels I still have are Blue Spruce, they're very nicely made, but I cant say that A2 holds a super keen edge for a great length of time. It will hold an edge for a long time, but that edge degrades from incredibly sharp pretty rapidly. I find myself revisiting the stones with those fairly often. Compared to other chisels I have which can be stropped for a great length of time between resharpening.

[steven c newman]

Got to looking around...found a "Stanley" that did need some work done
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That one, right in front of the brass mallet. Had all sorts of grubby stuff on it.

Took it down to the DungeonRehab Center....10 minutes later...back was flat and polished mirror bright. Edge was sharpened up, oil stoned as well. Will slice paper with ease.
Tool of choice in the shop? A Craftsman 1" x 30" beltsander. Uses a worn 120 grit belt. Platten and the table are at 90 degrees to each other. Bowl of water handy if needed.
haven't got all dang day to play with diamonds....need things DONE, so I can get to work...
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The back
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sharpened edge
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Might have been a dollar at a yard sale? Width? 1-1/2" wide

10, maybe 15 minutes, counting walking down the steps to the shop and back. Chisel is ready for work.

Those "Aldi" chisels?? used most of them in the Enclosed End Table project. There was a butcher mortise chisel used, rest of the jobs were by the Aldi chisels. In white Oak. never had a problem, nor needed to re-hone. Need to skinny the narrower chisel down to a true 1/4", and maybe use in mortises....

[Mike Brady]

[Originally posted by John: " the A2 steel on these chisels to be extremely tough[/QUOTE]

Do they advertise these chisels to be A-2 steel? I would doubt that they are. More likely just a generic high carbon tool steel.

[Pat Barry]

Mike,

I'm not flattening the entire face. I do work the entire back to some degree because I want it reasonably flat but I concentrate on the first 1 1/2" or so. I'll even leave a hollow in the center as long at the first 1/2" or so is entirely flat.
Its very surprising to me that you would need to do any such work on a chisel that has machining marks of those like you have. I'm perplexed as to how the thing could NOT be flat yet have grinding marks like those. Do you have any idea about just how much out of flat those chisels actually are? Keeping in mind that flattening the back will be quite time consuming, I wonder whether or not there is any benefit in really improving over the factory results. I'd really be curious why the chisels aren't super flat right from Stanley. I of course, don't mean machining marks - those I think you could really care less about.

[Daniel Rode]

They are advertised as "High-carbon chrome steel" and elsewhere described as "chrome-vanadium steel hardened to Rc57-62".

[Brian Holcombe]

Its very surprising to me that you would need to do any such work on a chisel that has machining marks of those like you have. I'm perplexed as to how the thing could NOT be flat yet have grinding marks like those. Do you have any idea about just how much out of flat those chisels actually are? Keeping in mind that flattening the back will be quite time consuming, I wonder whether or not there is any benefit in really improving over the factory results. I'd really be curious why the chisels aren't super flat right from Stanley. I of course, don't mean machining marks - those I think you could really care less about.

Batch machinery wears and goes out of flat. However batch production does not lend itself to maintaining very tight specs because it causes downtime.

Having had the pleasure of re-machining batch work with more accurate grinding machines in my past I can say for certain that a good looking grind does not mean an accurate grind.

FWIW a consistent crosshatch pattern would be a better indicator flatness than those lines.

[John Kananis]

[Originally posted by John: " the A2 steel on these chisels to be extremely tough

Do they advertise these chisels to be A-2 steel? I would doubt that they are. More likely just a generic high carbon tool steel.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for catching that, I completely misstated.

[Daniel Rode]

I measured each chisel tonight. I think they are in inches but not very accurately.

1/8" +1/64 light
1/4" +1/64 light
3/8" +1/32
1/2" -1/256
5/8" + 1/128
3/4 +1/64 light
1" = +-0
1 1/4" + 1/32 heavy


Dan,

I am curious about the box showing the sizes in inch and metric. Have you checked them to see if they are truly inch or are they metric sizes?

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks Dan, the deviation is interesting.

jtk