PDA

View Full Version : Swimming Pool or No pool?



Eduard Nemirovsky
08-02-2015, 10:50 AM
I have a small pond in my backyard - about 12 by 8. We put it on about 8-9 years ago. I am ready to fill it in with dirt - so tired to take care of it. Question arise - should we put a pool on this place?
Thinking about fiberglass vs concrete, medium size.
Owners of the pool - please chimes with your opinions:
Would you do it again?
How much headache to take care of it?
What material, if you do it again, you will use?

glenn bradley
08-02-2015, 11:08 AM
The only time I found having a pool tolerable with my lifestyle was when I had a pool service. I think having a pool is like having a boat. Many people want them but, only a fraction of those are willing to put out the effort required to make them enjoyable. I think pools and boats are great. I just don't have time for them as my interests lie elsewhere. Someone else would wonder why I spend all that valuable boating time in the shop so, there you go :D

Julie Moriarty
08-02-2015, 11:29 AM
To me, a swimming pool is a definite yes if it's in a year-round warm climate and it's long enough for swimming laps.

Todd Willhoit
08-02-2015, 2:45 PM
I am ready to fill it in with dirt - so tired to take care of it.

Unless you are willing to pay a pool service as Glenn said, you will likely find that you want to fill it in with dirt too. In my opinion, the pool services do the bare minimum to keep it from turning green. Usually, that means to clean out the leaves and jack up the chlorine level.

The quality of your supply water will directly impact the difficulty maintaining proper levels, as well as the rate at which mineral deposits form on the sides.

There are some great online resources like Trouble Free Pool that can help you with the selection of pool type and maintenance. The folks there advocate a pool that is as chemical free as possible and can elaborate in great detail the chlorination options (salt water chlorine generators, chlorine tablets, and bleach from the discount store). TroubleFreePool has a great section called Pool School to help you get started. In any case, it takes work (or money) if you want really nice water.

If I were forced to put in a pool today, it would be a salt water gunite pool with a plaster finish. FWIW, I think salt water is easier than bleach or chlorine tablets, but it has drawbacks too. Although porous gunite/plaster requires more work, I like the look better. If I didn't care about the look, I would build a pond with a sand beach and let the fish take care of the water.

Todd Willhoit
08-02-2015, 2:47 PM
To me, a swimming pool is a definite yes if it's in a year-round warm climate...

I used to think the same way. It sounds really great until you find that the water gets so warm that it is not refreshing.

Jerry Thompson
08-02-2015, 2:57 PM
Years ago we were researching swimming pools. At that time one site had everything about pools. What stuck in my mind was that the interest/use of a pool was three years. It was great the first year and waned to little use by the third.
This bore out with two of our friends. Buy the 5th year they had the payments and the upkeep.

Ryan Mooney
08-02-2015, 4:20 PM
I agree pools are like boats, they're awfully nice when you can go use a friends....

Mike Henderson
08-02-2015, 5:59 PM
People who have kids, then moved to a house with a pool, have all reported the same thing to me.

The first year, everyone loves the pool and it gets lots of use. The kids invite their friends over and have pool parties.

The second year, not so much, but it still gets some use.

Third year, very little use.

Fourth year and beyond, all they do is clean the pool.

Pools are expensive, also, because of the pool pump (electricity) and the maintenance.

Mike

Rich Enders
08-02-2015, 6:48 PM
We purchased a home in 2007 that came with an in-ground salt water pool. Our summers here are 5 months long in the low 100's, and 7 months long if you include the 80's and the 90's. The pool has a waterfall which acts as an evaporative cooler to keep the temperature from getting too high on hot days, and a passive solar system to heat the pool which extends the usable pool year. The pool came with a gas heater which we mainly use for the spa, but if we feel really flush can be used to heat the pool also. So far that has only happened when the grandkids come in the winter. The pool gets used constantly. during our season.

We use a pool service which comes every week for $100 per month plus chemicals which amount to about $200 per year. My friends have dispensed with the pool service, but it gives me some peace of mind. Maintenance has included a new salt cell ($1200), a new filter housing ($700 paid for by insurance), and pool and spa light replacements ($400). We replaced the filter pump with a high efficiency variable speed pump at the suggestion of the local power company, and that penciled out to pay back in about 30 months.

In addition to the usage the pool and the water feature and the lighting give visual interest and sound to an otherwise bland desert setting.

Phil Thien
08-02-2015, 6:55 PM
I'd ditto what Julie said, it has to be long enough for laps and most pools are not.

I'd like to try an infinite pool but haven't.

Most of my issues would be resolved by winning the lottery.

Todd Willhoit
08-02-2015, 11:22 PM
Most of my issues would be resolved by winning the lottery.

I can't agree more! :rolleyes:



Another comparison with boat ownership: It is easy to sell a boat. A pool, not so much.

Mark Blatter
08-02-2015, 11:35 PM
+1 for what Glenn said.

I have always said having a pool would be nice, but the only way I would do is if I had a pool-boy or service. No way I am going to get tied down that much.....yet at the same time my wife and I are actually thinking about buying a boat. Go figure.

Brian Kent
08-02-2015, 11:52 PM
We have a pool. It is fun sometimes. We have a pool service. We are happy that it came with the house. And… we would never go to the cost of building one from scratch.

Years ago, when we had a Jacuzzi, we used it much more frequently.

Bradley Gray
08-03-2015, 9:50 AM
We've had a pool for 25 years. It is in partial shade so the water stays cool to cold, which we like. Since my (un-air conditioned) shop is 150 yards from the house I get in at lunch time. On really hot days I take mid afternoon dip.

One thing I always recommend to friends considering a pool is get a diatomaceous earth filter. This removes much smaller particulates than a sand filter.

I spend less than $100. per year on chemicals - liquid shock chlorine and baking soda does it all.

Rich Engelhardt
08-03-2015, 5:56 PM
Here's a good story about the horrors of owning a pool.

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/29697757/pool-pops-out-of-ground-at-pasco-home#.Vb_imPlVgSU

Heavy rains + empty pool = big trouble...

Mike Henderson
08-03-2015, 8:54 PM
Here's a good story about the horrors of owning a pool.

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/29697757/pool-pops-out-of-ground-at-pasco-home#.Vb_imPlVgSU

Heavy rains + empty pool = big trouble...
When I lived in Florida my neighbor had a company come out to work on their pool. Before the company drained it, they put in shallow wells all around the pool and pumped the ground water out. I asked one of the workmen why they did that and he told me that the pool would pop out of the ground when they drained it if they didn't pump the ground water out.

They had to keep pumping the whole time the pool was empty to keep the water table down around the pool. So the problem of pools popping out is well known in Florida (which has a very high water table). The owners of that house must not have known about it.

Mike

[Florida has lots of heavy rain. All year long, as I remember it. But it must have been seasonal.]

Ruperto Mendiones
08-04-2015, 12:27 AM
Living next to a wildfire prone national forest my pool exists solely as a source of water for fire protection. Grandkids haven't used it or been been by for 2 years. Aside from fire protection here in S. Calif., I have little use for a $$pool.

Rich Enders
08-04-2015, 12:55 AM
Ruperto,

Wouldn't a cistern be a less expensive way of storing water for fire protection?

Joe Tilson
08-04-2015, 8:03 AM
For us it would be more work than enjoyment, after listening to my sister and her husband talk about their pool, and they are in the know about pools.

Eduard Nemirovsky
08-04-2015, 10:16 AM
It is amazing to see poll result -11 to 1 against it. And only one can't swim:D.
Thank you everyone for recommendations.
I am still in process of deciding, even my better half already decided for both of us:rolleyes:

Ed.

Dennis Aspö
08-04-2015, 10:52 AM
I work for a company that builds wooden hot tubs and saunas, and now too plastic lined models (which are far more popular). I think one day I'll build one of those plastic lined models we sell, with a bubble system and filtration, into my deck.

Val Kosmider
08-04-2015, 12:59 PM
Built a new house some years ago and installed a pool. Kids loved it, and i really enjoyed it--especially when it was kid free!

Some things which I found to my liking were the vinyl liner---less costly (perceived by the "in the know" bunch as being inferior (sort of like having fabric seats in a car--way more comfortable, but everyone wants leather because it is fashionable!), way more comfortable under foot (soft, versus hard like concrete or fiberglass), easier to maintain (just let the creep crawly go and it stays clean because of the smooth surface), and less maintenance issues --especially in a cold climate.

I used a synthetic chlorine (baquacil) which was a little more costly, but overall gave a better water quality with no chlorine "smell". Sand filter. Gas heater. Solar cover. Rubberized canvas cover for the winter which anchored to permanent bolts in the pool deck. Concrete deck with a cool marble finish so it is not hot underfoot.

I really enjoyed the pool. The operating cost was not crazy...maybe a few hundred bucks a year for chemicals, opening and closing for the season, gas for the heater, and miscellaneous "stuff". It was not a hassle, and the hours of enjoyment--especially after some yard work when you could just jump in and get refreshed were worth whatever effort was required.

I sold the house to a family. Pool was a desirable feature.

Chris Padilla
08-04-2015, 4:53 PM
IF one doesn't learn how to properly take care of a pool, it can be a major headache in one's life and I can certainly understand wanting to fill it in.

There is a site on the web call Trouble Free Pools and much like SMC, it is a site of enthusiasts who can help you with issues and they subscribe to an overall KISS (keep it simple simple) method of pool maintenance.

I have found the site quite invaluable.

Back in 1998, we purchased a home (we are still here) and it was perfect except for the figure 8-shaped pool with attached spa. Hmmmm. Well, the rest of the house was perfect and this IS California so it was something I had to learn. Well, the beginning was pretty cool but as soon as I had algae and leaking problems, things turned sour fast and my attitude was to "fill the darn thing in" and "having a pool is a love/hate relationship" and so on.

Well, over the years I've learned a lot but things took a new turn stumbling upon TFP. Now I feel way more in control now that I've been educated. I've never hired anyone to take care of my pool and now I don't need to. In fact, we just sunk $25k into refinishing the pool (new equipment, new plumbing and rerouting, etc.) and another $35k into the landscape around the pool and things are going very well. I did a TON of work on both the pool and landscape myself along with paying pros. Maintaining a pool is still a fair amount of work but it is now down to a science for me and only a few minutes a day.

Knowing what I know now, a pool is no problem. Knowing what I knew 10 years ago, a pool is a major headache and not worth it. It is all about education. Good Luck!!

Chris Padilla
08-04-2015, 5:04 PM
Now that I've read some of the replies, let me further add this:

My pool is weirdly but interestingly-shaped: a figure 8 with attached spa w/spillover.

It isn't long enough to swim laps in so that is annoying.

It is strange-shaped so auto pool covers (and I would pay $$$$s for one) will not work.

We have an enormous oak tree in our back yard and it along with the squirrel community constantly rains debris into our pool 365-52-24-7. It doesn't matter if it is the dead of winter and not a leaf to be found...something is falling from this tree into our pool.

Had I designed our pool back in 1978 when it was put in, I would have done the following:

Boring long rectangle long enough to swim laps in AND with an automated pool cover.

The attached spa with a manual cover would be fine. A cover that small is no biggie to handle manually.

Steve Peterson
08-04-2015, 5:53 PM
I'd like to try an infinite pool but haven't.

We recently upsized our house and one critical requirement (according to my wife) was to have a pool. My kids are 9 and 11. They are in it all the time.

It is an infinite edge pool. It looks great, but you have to keep the pump running all the time when using the pool or else the catch basin will overflow. The catch basin is the length of the pool and about 2' wide with about 6" of storage. The pool is about 20' wide so it only takes about 10 minutes of kids splashing to drain 1" of water into the catch basin. About half of that will be in the lawn unless the pump is running to keep filling the pool. The kids toys are always falling over the edge. It also leaves an edge that you cannot stand on to use the scrub brush.

To me it seems like a choice of looks over functionality. The infinite edge looks better, but a traditional pool is more functional. I am not sure how much it added to the cost, since it was already built when we bought the house. I would prefer a traditional pool if we ever did it again.

Steve

David Cramer
08-04-2015, 6:32 PM
Above ground 16' by 32' Doughboy in Michigan. Have had it for 13 years this summer (Late May till early September). We've had a Polaris Cleaner ($200) since day one. No issues at all. The pool was $2800 13 years ago. Timer on the sand filter (pump). Does not cost that much to run the pump. We have a floating chlorine container that holds 3 hockey puck sizes of Chlorine Tablets. We only put liquid chlorine in it when we open and close it. The tablets lasts for a long time (Sam's Club and Costco sell them in 5 gallon buckets).

Again, this is an above ground pool (42" deep) and although we aren't at the level of poverty, we surely don't have $25,000 to be putting into redoing a pool as that's simply not in the cards. My friend from high school works at Google and he put more than that into his:eek::eek::eek::eek:. One day the liner will have to be replaced, but it's still a few years away from that.

We love our pool and are glad that we put it in:)

Good luck with your decision.

David






It is amazing to see poll result -11 to 1 against it. And only one can't swim:D.
Thank you everyone for recommendations.
I am still in process of deciding, even my better half already decided for both of us:rolleyes:

Ed.

Robert Payne
08-04-2015, 8:07 PM
We had a 20' x 40' in-ground pool in the backyard of our home in Rhode Island when my youngest kids were in grade and high school and it was a real blessing. It was cast-in-place concrete and about 32,000 gallons with a nice deck all around. I added an automated chlorination system using a metering pump on a timer and industrial strength bleach (about triple the strength of Clorox) that I bought from an industrial supplier and kept in a 40 gallon heavy plastic garbage can with a lid. The 1-1/2 hp pump was also on a timer and the system had a large sand filter and a 275,000 btu natural gas heater. Once I got the system tuned, it kept the water crystal clear and the kids loved it. It was not a major expense since it was with the house when we bought it and added value when we sold the house ten years later (1975-1985). With some help, I replaced the wooden section of the deck when we sold the house ($2,500 in treated decking). We loved it.

Rich Enders
08-05-2015, 12:31 AM
Surprising that the poll at one point was 11 to 1 against. In scanning the two dozen actual responses it seemed that only a few were against.

Actually this is the first time I noticed that there was a poll option. Perhaps that explains the difference.

Jim Becker
08-05-2015, 10:03 AM
Swimming pools are very nice to have, but if maintaining a small pond (which are generally self-sufficient) is a pain, then you'll not enjoy pool maintenance one bit. Even with a lot of the available cleaning automation, there's still a lot of things to do on a regular basis. If you do choose to proceed with the pool, opt for a salt water system and avoid the chlorine.

Eduard Nemirovsky
08-05-2015, 10:52 AM
Thank you, Jim - this is what I am planning to choose - salt water pool.
Unfortunately pond is not so small and does require weekly filters cleaning. It is not difficult - but not very rewarding.
Ed.

Michael Stein
08-05-2015, 11:26 AM
Personally, I will never have a pool. On the other hand, I do have a boat, and as I said in the boat thread, I keep it at a marina, which also has a pool. We use the marina pool (mainly the kids, 5 & 9) on a weekly basis; at least once, but usually 2/3 times. Accompanied by having the boat on a lift, the combo is well worth the monthly cost for our family.

My parents do have a pool and my father said that the pool (in maintenance/chemicals/electrical service - not including time spent) costs them around $1200/year. They also live in Pittsburgh, PA where the pool is only usable for half the year. For a little less than double that, I "rent" a pool that I don't have to maintain, and I also have a boat lift. No thanks on owning.

Chris Padilla
08-05-2015, 2:36 PM
Swimming pools are very nice to have, but if maintaining a small pond (which are generally self-sufficient) is a pain, then you'll not enjoy pool maintenance one bit. Even with a lot of the available cleaning automation, there's still a lot of things to do on a regular basis. If you do choose to proceed with the pool, opt for a salt water system and avoid the chlorine.

Chlorine is key. One gets chlorine from the salt, which is sodium chloride (NaCl). Now I know you know this and I think I know what you mean but dealing with liquid chlorine (sodium hypochlorate...also known as ordinary household bleach) can be a pain but there are automated systems out there for liquid chlorine injection. I use The Liquidator and I love it. One can also use the 'hockey puck' style of chlorine feeding but be careful of building up CYA (cyanuric acid...also known as stabilizer) over time. CYA in the 30-50 ppm range is necessary but if it gets higher than that, the chlorine becomes less and less effective to do its sanitizing job. The only way to get rid of excess CYA is water changes.

Like I said, education is key when it comes to maintaining a swimming pool. It really isn't that hard when you have the tools and the knowledge. The best tool to have is a quality test kit that measures 5 things: pH, chlorine/bromine, total alkalinity, hardness, and cya. With the knowledge of those levels in hand and how they do or do not interact with each other and the levels one should have, one can have crystal clear water to swim in all the time.

For salt water pools, some like them and some don't. The salt in the water may or may not bother you. Also, the salt water generator (SWG) isn't exactly a cheap piece of equipment and it does need maintenance itself and will need replacing over time.

Greg R Bradley
08-05-2015, 2:57 PM
Chlorine is key. One gets chlorine from the salt, which is sodium chloride (NaCl). Now I know you know this and I think I know what you mean but dealing with liquid chlorine (sodium hypochlorate...also known as ordinary household bleach) can be a pain but there are automated systems out there for liquid chlorine injection. I use The Liquidator and I love it. One can also use the 'hockey puck' style of chlorine feeding but be careful of building up CYA (cyanuric acid...also known as stabilizer) over time. CYA in the 30-50 ppm range is necessary but if it gets higher than that, the chlorine becomes less and less effective to do its sanitizing job. The only way to get rid of excess CYA is water changes.

Like I said, education is key when it comes to maintaining a swimming pool. It really isn't that hard when you have the tools and the knowledge. The best tool to have is a quality test kit that measures 5 things: pH, chlorine/bromine, total alkalinity, hardness, and cya. With the knowledge of those levels in hand and how they do or do not interact with each other and the levels one should have, one can have crystal clear water to swim in all the time.

For salt water pools, some like them and some don't. The salt in the water may or may not bother you. Also, the salt water generator (SWG) isn't exactly a cheap piece of equipment and it does need maintenance itself and will need replacing over time.
Chris has clearly spent some time on Trouble Free Pools. LOTS of good info there.

Salt Water Pools are great - for the people selling them, and selling the equipment.

SWGs were originally called ECGs, Electrolytic Chlorine Generators - Guess which one sells more equipment.

Rick Moyer
08-05-2015, 4:19 PM
You need both: http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=pool+pond+pond+would+be+good+for+you&FORM=VIRE1#view=detail&mid=23A6AC5D559AC3C499F123A6AC5D559AC3C499F1

Julie Moriarty
08-05-2015, 4:32 PM
For salt water pools, some like them and some don't. The salt in the water may or may not bother you. Also, the salt water generator (SWG) isn't exactly a cheap piece of equipment and it does need maintenance itself and will need replacing over time.

We were looking at a house in FL that didn't have a pool. I called a pool contractor to see what it would cost to have one put in. He said all the pools they build today are salt water.

Chris Padilla
08-05-2015, 5:30 PM
We were looking at a house in FL that didn't have a pool. I called a pool contractor to see what it would cost to have one put in. He said all the pools they build today are salt water.

Well, the pool itself doesn't care if the water has salt in it or not. It is a matter of preference to the pool owner. It is simply a choice of equipment. I could easily switch my liquid chlorine injection to a SWG if I wished. I've read that some people add salt to their pool water even when they did not have a SWG because they liked the feel of it. I would suggest you try out a salt pool and see what you think. I have no idea...never been in a salt water pool save for the ocean, of course. :D

I think the main thing in Florida with its high water table is to ensure you have pressure relief valves installed around and in the bottom of the pool to ensure you don't ever get a pool pop. It is a rarity around here but my pool refinisher drilled a few holes in the bottom just in case as the pool was emptied for the work to be done.

Greg R Bradley
08-05-2015, 6:24 PM
Spend some time going thru "pool school" and the forums on trouble free pools and you will know more than most pool maintenance services and all pool builders. You will have to work to find a decent pool builder at all.

Chlorine sanitizes the pool either way. My pool would require 1000 pounds of NaCl (salt) to be added, then you would use large amounts of electricity to break NaCl into Na and Cl, only to have it recombine into NaCl minus the Cl that evaporates. Every few years you need several hundred dollars worth of new equipment plus labor. Keep draining the pool and refilling to fix the problems in water chemistry. Don't forget that the salt water can't be used to water your yard or go down the storm drains and that you need another 1000 pounds of salt.

My pool was last reflled when I acid washed it after buying the house 18 years ago.

Chris Padilla
08-05-2015, 7:30 PM
Greg,

Before deciding to have our plaster redone (to Pebble Sheen) a month ago, the pool water had never been changed since we bought the house in September, 1998. I did my share of pouring (pool store suggested) stuff in my pool before finally figuring things out and going the TFP way.

Julie Moriarty
08-06-2015, 9:04 AM
Well, the pool itself doesn't care if the water has salt in it or not. It is a matter of preference to the pool owner. It is simply a choice of equipment. I could easily switch my liquid chlorine injection to a SWG if I wished. I've read that some people add salt to their pool water even when they did not have a SWG because they liked the feel of it. I would suggest you try out a salt pool and see what you think. I have no idea...never been in a salt water pool save for the ocean, of course. :D

I think the main thing in Florida with its high water table is to ensure you have pressure relief valves installed around and in the bottom of the pool to ensure you don't ever get a pool pop. It is a rarity around here but my pool refinisher drilled a few holes in the bottom just in case as the pool was emptied for the work to be done.

I realize the pool doesn't care but the equipment does. The contractor said his customers prefer salt water because it's easier on the skin. I remember my dad's pure white hair turning silver-blue from swimming in his chlorinated pool. But when the contractor talked about what chlorine does to your skin, I mostly recalled the days when I was on the high school swimming team. My skin smelled like chlorine most of the time, and I could see rings around my eyes for hours after practice.

As for the pros and cons of owning a pool, growing up we had a 20'x40' concrete pool in the back yard. Every spring we'd empty it of its stagnant water and remove garbage cans full of wet, muddy leaves. Then we'd have to clean the whole thing out, patch the concrete around the perimeter where the ice expanded and crushed the sides and then paint it. Waterplug was the only product that didn't require annual repair but my dad said it was too expensive.

On the other end, we initially enjoyed the pool, right after we moved in, but in time the interest waned. We had a diatomaceous earth filter that worked great if you ran it all the time but my dad forbade that because of the electricity costs, so the water was often cloudy. But when he moved to Florida, he bought a house with a pool and it was kept up very well. It was probably easier to afford the maintenance without six hungry mouths to feed. I maintained the first pool but once I joined the swim team, I was so burned out from swim season that I stopped seeing pools as something to enjoy and rarely used it during my high school years. After my dad sold the house, the next owners filled in the pool.

kevin nee
08-06-2015, 9:47 AM
I have a 500 gallon HOT TUB 8' x 8' and love it! Very easy to maintain. Minimal problems in 13 years.
if I were to do it over I would get the fiberglass enclosuer, the Redwood that I got is in need of a spruce up.
good luck in whatever direction you go!

Greg R Bradley
08-06-2015, 11:03 AM
I realize the pool doesn't care but the equipment does. The contractor said his customers prefer salt water because it's easier on the skin. I remember my dad's pure white hair turning silver-blue from swimming in his chlorinated pool. But when the contractor talked about what chlorine does to your skin, I mostly recalled the days when I was on the high school swimming team. My skin smelled like chlorine most of the time, and I could see rings around my eyes for hours after practice.

Salt water pools are much harder on equipment just like everything near the ocean deteriorates faster.

A very mild salt solution is easier on the eyes. Some people use about 10% the amount of salt that you would use in a salt water pool for this reason. Some people use a mild boric acid solution for the same reason and the fact that it has some other advantages. Mild saline & mild boric acid is making the pool similar to eyewash.

The chlorine effects on poorly managed, particularly public, pools is mostly from chloramines.

The important thing to understand is "chlorine" pools and "salt water" pools are both chlorine pools. You either add the Sodium Hypochlorite from a bottle or generate it by electrolysis. There are advantages to each.

Since the general public has already fallen for the salt water pool "facts", no pool builder is going to spend time talking them out of spending more money. There probably are a few places where salt water pools make more sense which just complicates the issue. When you want simple answers, they will never be accurate.

If we wait 20 years, "everyone" will be removing the ECGs to be safe from Iridium hazards, save electricity, or whatever matches the current trend.

Chris Padilla
08-06-2015, 12:45 PM
Excellent points there, Greg.

Folks who are interested in the difference between chlorine and chloramines, click here (http://www.poolcenter.com/chloramine).

When one can smell 'chlorine' from a pool and one's eyes and nose are being irritated, one is actually smelling and reacting to chloramines. This is a sign to add more chlorine to your pool! You'll learn quite a bit in the link above as it relates to what is known as 'free chlorine' (FC) and 'combined chlorine' (CC--aka chloramines).

Note that I don't have anything against salt water pools. In fact, I strongly considered going that route but as I dug into it, I found the equipment relatively expensive and it does take some electricity and that it was harder on all the equipment in general. I decided to go back to my 'hockey pucks' and liquid chlorine...the old stand-by.

One thing I've learned from TFP is to keep things simple. The simpler, the better. Pool stores and pool companies love to sell you all kinds of things to 'fix' or 'improve' your pool but it comes down to basic water chemistry and those 5 measurable items a good kit will tell you. Once your water is balanced, simply adding bleach (chlorine...sodium hypochlorate) is just about all one needs to do to keep the water clear and comfortable to swim in. Once your water is balanced, you may need to adjust the pH a couple times a month (typically it tends to drift higher over time so adding some acid to bring it down is necessary).

If any problems crop up, usually all one needs to do is add mega-doses of chlorine to ward off the problem. Typical problems are algae blooms and these only happen if you let your chlorine drop too low or to zero but storms and strong winds can blow problems into your pool, too, that might require a chlorine shock. Other problems are stains on your plaster but if you keep an eye on your hardness levels (calcium), those shouldn't be an issue either. Other staining issues can be from high levels of metals in your water (copper, for example) and this is one case where adding something special to your water is needed to combat that (Jack's Magic products...sequestering agents they are called.)

Fun stuff, eh? :)

Dennis Aspö
08-06-2015, 1:20 PM
I heard on the radio only last week that the burning sensation you get in your eyes when you go to the pool is actually an indicator that someone's peed in the pool and the chlorine reacting with the urine in the water is what makes you eyes burn. I guess that's chloramines, then.

Chris Padilla
08-06-2015, 1:50 PM
That would be correct, Dennis. The chlorine is doing its job to combat the urine and is being converted into chloramines. This is why one would need to add more chlorine to continue dealing with the issue.

Eduard Nemirovsky
08-06-2015, 8:03 PM
Wow, a lot of useful information. But I am not surprise - this is why I like SMC forum.

Ed.

Rich Enders
08-09-2015, 11:16 PM
Greg and Chris,

Other than the salt water cell itself the "equipment" as manufactured by the reputable companies is made from the plastics PPO, PC, ASA, PVC, and PP. The rubber gaskets and seals are nitrile or TPV. All of these are quite comfortable with salt water solutions. There are also a limited number of metal components, but they are made from type 316 stainless steel which does well in salt water situations.

I would appreciate knowing about your experience indicating that salt water is hard on pool equipment.

Chris Padilla
08-10-2015, 7:31 PM
I only read about it, Rich, and don't quite recall where I found it but do some searching on TFP and you should find some thoughts there.

Plenty of people do use SWG so they probably aren't all bad. There are pros and cons to all systems.

Rich Enders
08-10-2015, 7:37 PM
Greg,

Thanks for clarifying. I thought you had experienced an equipment issue with a salt system. My experience other than the salt cell itself has been very positive.

Chris Padilla
08-12-2015, 4:16 PM
http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/71336-Time-for-a-sticky-for-pros-and-cons-of-a-SWCG

Rich, try this link. It has a pro/con list and links to other stuff.

Craig Matheny
08-12-2015, 5:44 PM
OK with out reading all the threads my answer would be a big NO.... had pools growing up had an above ground for my kids when they finished with it gave it away... Before I started my current business I worked for 2 of the largest pool builders in the USA Swan Pool and Anthony and Sylvan for over 10 years combined had the ability to get a free pool and all any time I wanted it. The extra cost it involves the time to maintain it and the RTI never happens most of the time it DE-values property. If I want to go swimming I'll go to a neighbors house or join a gym with a pool much cheaper. Oh Yeah FYI your home owners insurance will go up also. M2Cents

Craig Matheny
08-12-2015, 5:48 PM
There are some great online resources like Trouble Free Pool that can help you with the selection of pool type and maintenance. The folks there advocate a pool that is as chemical free as possible and can elaborate in great detail the chlorination options (salt water chlorine generators, chlorine tablets, and bleach from the discount store). TroubleFreePool has a great section called Pool School to help you get started. In any case, it takes work (or money) if you want really nice water.

If I were forced to put in a pool today, it would be a salt water gunite pool with a plaster finish. FWIW, I think salt water is easier than bleach or chlorine tablets, but it has drawbacks too. Although porous gunite/plaster requires more work, I like the look better. If I didn't care about the look, I would build a pond with a sand beach and let the fish take care of the water.

FYI a saltwater system in a pool that is not maintained correctly can destroy your plaster in as little as 3 months so if you do go that way get a pool guy that is certified with salt systems they are a different animal.
" TroubleFreePool " is an oxy-moron :)

Craig Matheny
08-12-2015, 5:57 PM
Here's a good story about the horrors of owning a pool.

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/29697757/pool-pops-out-of-ground-at-pasco-home#.Vb_imPlVgSU

Heavy rains + empty pool = big trouble...

We had a pool popped about 12" on the deep end of the pool one time in Garden Grove Calif. home owner called all freaked out. Easy fix $10,000.00 later we cut off the part of the bond beam that popped out of the ground re plumbed the pool and fixed the light pumped shot-crete in the voided areas after wards and good as new just 12" shallower in the deep-end.

Brian Elfert
08-12-2015, 6:45 PM
My family lived in Southern California in the late 1970s for three years when I was just starting school. We did not have a pool, but the neighbor did. Us kids were always at the neighbor's pool when it was warm enough to use the pool. Notice it was the neighbor's pool so my parents didn't have to maintain it. I am pretty sure my parent would have never installed a pool. My dad got transferred back to Minnesota after three years and you would be crazy to have a pool in Minnesota although people do.

Eduard Nemirovsky
08-12-2015, 9:10 PM
Good point about home insurance, I did not think about it:( .
Chris, thank you for all info about chlorination/salt water. I would take all this info for making a decision.

Ed.

Todd Willhoit
08-12-2015, 11:39 PM
FYI a saltwater system in a pool that is not maintained correctly can destroy your plaster in as little as 3 months so if you do go that way get a pool guy that is certified with salt systems they are a different animal.
" TroubleFreePool " is an oxy-moron :)

If you read my comment (If I were forced to put in a pool...), you would understand that I am not a fan of ANY pool.

With all the opinions expressed in this thread, you choose my comments as the basis for your negative assertions about saltwater chlorination?? If you take the time to read TFP and other sites, you'll find plenty of technical reading supporting this method and how to maintain it.

There are plenty of ways to screw up a pool, and a "pool guy that is certified" is one of them.

Chris Padilla
08-13-2015, 12:44 AM
Good point about home insurance, I did not think about it:( .
Chris, thank you for all info about chlorination/salt water. I would take all this info for making a decision.

Ed.I dunno about the home insurance angle. I'm not sure my insurance company knows or cares if I have a pool. Heck, I even have a diving board! :)

Craig Matheny
08-13-2015, 11:41 AM
I dunno about the home insurance angle. I'm not sure my insurance company knows or cares if I have a pool. Heck, I even have a diving board! :)

Chris not sure where you live but here in So. Cal big cost everyone sues everyone. Here is a blurb from US Insurance Agents https://usinsuranceagents.com/answers/77/how-does-having-a-pool-affect-homeowners-insurance again FYI. Plus Chris as you stated they might not know you have a pool so if someone did have a major accident your insurance might not cover it if it is pool related. It is our responsibility to make sure we have the proper insurance coverage not the insurance companies. Good luck

Rick Gibson
08-28-2015, 11:34 AM
We had an above ground pool for about 10 years. Kids were 7 or 8 when I put it in and when they left home I kept it for another year but found I wasn't using it enough to warrant the work so sold it for $100 and planted grass. I think above ground would be the way to go. Cheaper to install, get just as much use out of it and then when you find you are not using it any more the only expense in getting rid of it is grass seed.

David Cramer
08-28-2015, 2:42 PM
Exactly:) Not quite to the get rid of point, but it will be no big deal when I do and it does not cost nearly the figures that I've read on this thread...for 3.5 months of use:)

David




We had an above ground pool for about 10 years. Kids were 7 or 8 when I put it in and when they left home I kept it for another year but found I wasn't using it enough to warrant the work so sold it for $100 and planted grass. I think above ground would be the way to go. Cheaper to install, get just as much use out of it and then when you find you are not using it any more the only expense in getting rid of it is grass seed.

Jim Koepke
08-28-2015, 3:53 PM
I have a small pond in my backyard - about 12 by 8. We put it on about 8-9 years ago. I am ready to fill it in with dirt - so tired to take care of it. Question arise - should we put a pool on this place?


You are tired of taking care of a pond, but think it is less work to take care of something that has to be kept clean?

There is something wrong with this picture.

jtk

Chris Padilla
08-28-2015, 5:43 PM
Ponds need kept clean...pools need kept clean. Both require some effort but knowledge is power to work smartly and not necessarily harder. :)

Roger Feeley
08-29-2015, 8:40 PM
Put me in the probably not category. But it really depends on you and your neighborhood.

I used to visit my aunt and uncle in Webster Groves, MO and the folks across the street had a pool. That thing was the center of the neighborhood. They had a regular schedule and a flag system to announce the state of the pool.

Green meant pool was open to all
Yellow flag meant grown-ups only
Red flag meant family time
Checkered flag flew only once a year and that was their annual pool party. Covered dish, pool games, great fun.

But most people sort of keep the pool to themselves and it's kind of a pain. As others have posted, a pool service takes much of the drudgery out.

Eduard Nemirovsky
08-29-2015, 8:43 PM
Roger - thank you for a very good idea with flags. I like it.

Ed.

Put me in the probably not category. But it really depends on you and your neighborhood.

I used to visit my aunt and uncle in Webster Groves, MO and the folks across the street had a pool. That thing was the center of the neighborhood. They had a regular schedule and a flag system to announce the state of the pool.

Green meant pool was open to all
Yellow flag meant grown-ups only
Red flag meant family time
Checkered flag flew only once a year and that was their annual pool party. Covered dish, pool games, great fun.

But most people sort of keep the pool to themselves and it's kind of a pain. As others have posted, a pool service takes much of the drudgery out.

Chris Parks
08-29-2015, 10:01 PM
If we wait 20 years, "everyone" will be removing the ECGs to be safe from Iridium hazards, save electricity, or whatever matches the current trend.

Salt water pools have been used in Australia since the 1970's and I see no evidence of using anything else, in fact it is unusual to see any other type installed if the pool is in ground. Above ground pools generally rely on the manual addition of Chlorine by whatever means is chosen. My pool is 21 years old and the water has never been changed and I have had the chlorine generation system renewed once in that time. One thing I do once a year is use a high pressure washer to clean the sides and bottom of the pool. I attach the head of the washer to the long pole we have for the leaf scoop and it is surprising how much dirt is stuck to the surfaces and unseen. We live at the edge of a forest with huge trees surrounding the pool and it lives with a cover on it 24/7. This has an added advantage of stopping water evaporation which will lead to chemical imbalance as well.

Jim Becker
09-01-2015, 11:23 AM
The condo we rented in Key West last week for our vacation had a salt pool...it was quite pleasant. That was my first experience with them.

Chris Padilla
09-01-2015, 2:51 PM
Salt water pools have been used in Australia since the 1970's and I see no evidence of using anything else, in fact it is unusual to see any other type installed if the pool is in ground. Above ground pools generally rely on the manual addition of Chlorine by whatever means is chosen. My pool is 21 years old and the water has never been changed and I have had the chlorine generation system renewed once in that time. One thing I do once a year is use a high pressure washer to clean the sides and bottom of the pool. I attach the head of the washer to the long pole we have for the leaf scoop and it is surprising how much dirt is stuck to the surfaces and unseen. We live at the edge of a forest with huge trees surrounding the pool and it lives with a cover on it 24/7. This has an added advantage of stopping water evaporation which will lead to chemical imbalance as well.
So the SWG (salt water generator) cell you use lasts you about 10-11 years with no other maintenance? Cells here do not last quite that long from what I can tell and they do need an acid wash 1-2 times per year to get the crud off the electrodes. I'd like to hear more details about Australian salt water pools! :)

Chris Padilla
09-01-2015, 2:53 PM
The condo we rented in Key West last week for our vacation had a salt pool...it was quite pleasant. That was my first experience with them.Other than the ocean, which is about 10x more salty than a salt water pool (~33,000 ppm salt compared to ~3,300 ppm salt), I have yet to knowingly swim in a salt water pool. I understand that most people like them quite a bit.

Chris Padilla
09-01-2015, 3:03 PM
https://www.betzpools.com/blog/salt-water-systems-yes-or-no/

An interesting read on salt water pools.

David Cramer
09-02-2015, 1:57 PM
I'm in Michigan by the way, so it's not the same for many of the posters who have their pools open year round or close to it. Memorial Day till Labor Day and that's "close" to all you're gonna get, unless El Nino happens this year as they predict it will.

David

lyda speer
09-17-2015, 7:36 AM
First you have to be sure whether you need that pool or not. Because swimming pools costs a considerable amount of money. It’s not a big headache if you have a good pool builder Ferrari pools designed pool for my home in Boston. They were really efficient. I have hired them for the maintenance services also. I don’t have nothing much to worry about, other than monitoring the maintenance guy.

Jim Pastorius
09-17-2015, 11:30 PM
I made that mistake once.(built in)
There absolutely no financial return on a swimming pool. Especially an in ground.
Also, it is not a 'plus' if/when you ever decide to sell your house.
An above ground can at least be given away or hauled to scrap yard.

Art Mulder
09-24-2015, 2:12 PM
I made that mistake once.(built in)
There absolutely no financial return on a swimming pool. Especially an in ground.
Also, it is not a 'plus' if/when you ever decide to sell your house.
An above ground can at least be given away or hauled to scrap yard.

I'm late to this thread, but wanted to pass along an interesting bit of advice that I read on another forum some time ago.

Jim's comment is key. A few other people have also mentioned something similar. (this probably depends on where you live, but ... ) Around here a pool does not affect the price of a house at all. So your house might be worth $300k, and another near identical house on your block with a pool would also have a price pretty close to $300k.

So here is the advice that I heard: *IF* you want an in-ground pool, the smart thing financially is to SELL your house, and find and buy a similar house that ALREADY has a pool. Even with closing costs and moving costs, that is still probably cheaper than the price of putting in a pool.

(Again, that probably depends on where you live, as if you are in a 1million dollar market then those numbers may not work the same.) And also, this is purely a financial measurement. Things like how much you love your house are not counted.

Eduard Nemirovsky
09-24-2015, 2:19 PM
Art, interesting advice, and from financial point of view could be best advice so far. But from my wife' view - never heppend.:)

Ed.

I'm late to this thread, but wanted topass along an interesting bit of advice that I read on another forum some time ago.

Jim's comment is key. A few other people have also mentioned something similar. (this probably depends on where you live, but ... ) Around here a pool does not affect the price of a house at all. So your house might be worth $300k, and another near identical house on your block with a pool would also have a price pretty close to $300k.

So here is the advice that I heard: *IF* you want an in-ground pool, the smart thing financially is to SELL your house, and find and buy a similar house that ALREADY has a pool. Even with closing costs and moving costs, that is still probably cheaper than the price of putting in a pool.

(Again, that probably depends on where you live, as if you are in a 1million dollar market then those numbers may not work the same.) And also, this is purely a financial measurement. Things like how much you love your house are not counted.

Ole Anderson
09-24-2015, 10:14 PM
About the time I went into college, my folks added onto the house for an indoor gunite pool. Being indoors eliminates a lot of the problems, but brings on a whole host of others. It got used a lot, but that was more than 30 years ago. My BIL in TN has one that gets used frequently. My good friend filled theirs in this year now that all 5 kids are no longer home. Personally I have had a Hot Springs spa for 20 years that takes minimal maintenance, I empty it during the cold season, something you can't do with a pool.

A gunite pool can be quite abrasive on your skin, newcomers may go home with bleeding toes. We just got back from a resort in Cancun that had 4 pools, every one was fully lied with one inch ceramic tiles, expensive but seemed a good way to go.

Barry Richardson
09-24-2015, 10:54 PM
I just finally (thank god) got rid of my home with a pool. Never again. As some one said early on, a pool is a lot like a boat. A boat is a hole in the water you throw money into, a pool is a hole in the ground you throw money into. We had one built at the insistence of the wife and kids, and it was cool for a while, (about one season) until the novelty wears off. I live in phoenix and you get about 6 months of pool use a year, other parts of the country would be much less. Had a salt system, got tired of fussing with it and replacing components (expensive) so just went to chlorine tabs. I don't like the smell of chlorine or how it dries your skin either, but if you keep it at a proper level it is not bad at all. A lot of people have bad experiences with community or public pools/spas where they keep the chlorine jacked way up to counter accidents in the pool and what not... There is a family owned pool supply/service near me who have been in business since forever, very savvy pool wise, and even though they sell salt systems, they advise against them, the upside is just not worth the downside....

Julie Moriarty
09-25-2015, 9:51 AM
We've been asking around a lot about salt water pools since we've been here. Everyone who has them loves them. Maintenance is a fraction. Cost to maintain is a fraction. They all say the water is much easier on the skin and there's no chlorine smell. I originally thought the salt content was that of the ocean but that is wrong. Salt content is lower than what's in a teardrop. This information has been gleaned from private owners, service personnel, pool installers and a congenial man named Lou who fills retirement voids working at a pool supply store. :)

Eddie Watkins
09-28-2015, 9:36 PM
We've had a pool for 6 years. The first few years we used it fairly often. Last year we used it three times, this year once. We had lots of rain this summer which kept the water out of balance. It adds about $150 per month to our electric bill and probably another $200 a month in chemicals. I live in Oklahoma City with fairly hot summers and mild winters. Even with that it is mid May before the water is warm enough to swim and by mid September it is too cool to swim. I've offered to go to a hotel for the night anytime we decide to go swimming just so I can get rid of the pool and the maintenance required. Here a swimming pool adds no value to your property and may actually make it harder to sell.