Which drawknife?

[David Ragan]

I have a Flexcut model, and have really not used it or any other drawknife at all.

Am working with Mike Holbrook on green woodworking. Built a shavehorse recently. Haven't used it yet.

The plan is to make chairs. Poorly in the beginning, I'm sure.

Was considering getting the LN curved model. What do you all think?

Putting aside the huge expense, would that be a mistake?

[Michael Ray Smith]

Doesn't the Flexcut have a literally flexible blade? If it's what I'm thinking of, it's a slightly different beast than the draw knives I've used. I looked up the LN drawknives. Ouch! You're right, that's a huge expense.

Other than playing around a bit, I've not done any work with a drawknife on green wood, but I don't know that would make much difference. I've used several vintage drawknives. The only new one I've used is the 4" Lee Valley carving drawknife, which I thought was expensive at about 1/3 the cost of the L-N. (To be fair, the L-N is a larger knife).

My recommendation is to spend the same money you'd spend on the L-N -- probably quite a bit less -- and buy several vintage knives of various sizes and designs to see what you like. Stick with the smaller blades, 4", 6", or maybe 8". The larger ones were probably used more for things like stripping bark from logs than for woodworking or carving. Try straight blades and blades with difference curvatures. Handles angled up or down or in line with the blade. Convex bevel or not. Drawknives are, to a much greater extent than things like planes, subject to personal preferences. Find out which ones feel good in your hands and sell the ones that don't. I've had probably 10-15 drawknives, most of which I used only a little before selling them, and now I'm down to three. My favorite has a 4-inch blade with a convex bevel. Like every other knife I've seen that small, the handles on it are angled outward. Mine was sold by Pexto (Peck, Stowe, & Wilcox), but several companies made and sold essentially the same style. For a bit larger work, I have a six-inch drawknife, but I can't recall off the top of my head who made it. A knife made by any of the old manufacturers of high quality edged tools will be fine -- Witherby, Barton, etc. As I said, I also have the Lee Valley drawknife that I thought would replace the Pexto, but it hasn't. I like it very well, but if I were to get rid of one of my drawknives, I'd sell the Lee Valley and keep the two vintage tools.

Or if you don't want to do that but still don't want to spend the $170 on the L-N, try the smaller Lee Valley knife for about $60. As I said, I like it a lot, just not quite as well as my other small knife. But that's just my opinion. YMMV

[Bill Houghton]

Can't speak to the LN vs Flex-cut. But why the heck would you buy a new drawknife? There are hundreds of them out there in the used market, and it's fairly easy to tell whether they're any good or not from pictures.

[Don Slaughter]

Hey David, I have the LN drawknife and really like it. I've had a vintage GreenLee for many years but last year I took a chair making class from Russ Filbeck and really got acquainted with drawknives. The most important consideration IMHO is what seems comfortable to use for long periods of time. For me, the GreenLee handles were too far apart causing me discomfort between my shoulders. The LN is the perfect size for me. I, also, recommend trying vintage knives to see what is important to you.
good luck!
Don

[Mike Holbrook]

We should have put a few in your hand when you were here. Anytime you want to try a few. I have 3-4 older ones, a Barr Tools, a Woodjoy.... We can find some sort of green something you can whittle on. Every time I think I have found a favorite it gets dull and I pick up another one...The way the tool is sharpened will effect how it works for you too. My issue with many of the old ones is they tend to get used for splitting. The tops of the blades are often bent all over the place from being hit with a hammer, grinding or filing them back into a more usable shape can take a while. The cutting surfaces frequently are not in much better shape. I used the one Drew sells at Country Workshops and almost bought one, very nice, pricey though especially if you have a few.

[Randy Karst]

Hi Don,
Not to hijack this post but how did you like the chair making class with Russ? I took the spoke shave class with him, learned a lot from him and have a very enjoyable day, I've been thinking about taking the chairmanning class.

[stevo wis]

I am sure the LN knife is fine. I have two knives from Barr Tools that are excellent and they come sharp. I have also had great luck with Witherby and James Swan drawknives. I usually pick them up on ebay for $20-30.

[Paul Saffold]

I have 2 Greenlees, a bevel up and a bevel down, that I like. They are 10". The longer length is good for making slicing cuts. I also have 2 other no-name vintage. One is pretty beat up and is used for debarking. Drew Langsner recommended straight drawknives, but both of my GreenLees are slightly curved. Both Buchanan and Galbert recommend having drawknives that are bevel up and bevel down. It's easier on your wrist if you can keep it straight especially if you are working for a long time. I'd start with one and see how much you like it and how much you will be using it. There isn't much involved in rehabbing one. Flatten the back and sharpen it. Curtis has one of his YouTube vids on sharpening a drawknife.

[Michael Ray Smith]

I checked eBay to see what's listed right now, and there are several that could be good possibilities. But there are several with folding handles, and my recommendation is to stay away from them. Unless you're actually going to put it in a toolbox that you're going to carry somewhere, folding handles just represent something that can go wrong. They also tend to fetch a slightly higher price, probably because of collectors.

And here's a good video with Brian Boggs showing how to sharpen a drawknife. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lVMcFjoOL4

[Mike Holbrook]

Good link Michael, I like Brian's video. He explains something early on that Pete Galbert is big on too. He talks about putting a slight bevel on the "flat" side of his drawnives. Pete demonstrated, in the class I took from him, just how big a difference that slight bevel makes. The first cuts on tapered spindles where the knife needs to go down into and then back out of the wood, would be an example.

I like short knives and long ones. I prefer the short ones for most of the work. Pete and I think Curtis too, use a longer very sharp knife to do the larger cuts on chair seats. This is what got my attention in my chair class more than anything. Using slicing cuts with a very sharp long blade Pete was able to do in one stroke what a bunch of smaller cuts will never do, make a large extremely smooth cut that can not be improved on with any other tool, sand paper, card scraper....Pete apparently keeps one special drawknife that he only uses for those specific chair seat cuts. I think Curtis does too.

I have 4-5 vintage drawknives and I like them very much. I was just surprised when I got 3-4 of them to find that there was a good deal more damage to the back and blade than I could see in the pictures. The other issue you can't judge at all is how tight the handles are. I bought a very nice vintage 7" Witherby that is distracting to use due to loose handles. My caution then is to be aware that for chair work you want a knife that has smooth surfaces so if you wind up with one that has been beat up due to being used for splitting it can be a challenge to get them into the sort of shape you want them in for chair work. Loose handles may or may not be an issue in terms of function but they can be a distraction or a precision issue and you can't tell for sure from pictures. I happen to like restoring tools. However, I ended up buying one early on too, so I at least had one I knew was functional for the classes I took. I am still restoring the edges on a couple of my vintage drawknives. They came with large nicks in the blade that I have been slowly working out rather than just grinding out quickly. I am trying to retain as much blade width as possible and not chance changing the temper on a steel I can't identify. Now that I have CNC wheels grinding is less an issue though.

I think I would prefer a Barr or WoodJoy drawknife at 125-$145 if I were buying new, at least to start. The LN at $170 has handles that are angled out a little too far for my taste. The Hans Karrlson from Country Workshops would probably be what I would buy if I just wanted one tool that could do it all, but at $225 it is the most expensive. The professionals I have worked with tend to like straighter handles. Many of the pros like a 6-7" knife even over an 8" for making spindles. The 8" knives may be the most versatile though. It just depends on whether you plan to own several or one or.....

[David Ragan]

I did use the little Flexcut this am, and I need make some alterations on the shavehorse, cause it doesn't grip the piece very well. I need to replace the top part with a little piece that swivels/rotates so there is more in contact with the work instead of just he corner of a 2x4. Also, the bottom ramp the work sits on needs to be angled up a little.

Mike, I should come over in a couple of weeks and try out some of yours and see before I plop down a lot of money. Also, as I said on the wedging thread, my experience of trying to split a log this AM was, once again, fairly discouraging.

[Nick Olimpi]

I would check flea markets and antique malls and find an old one or two. I have several which are great steel get razor sharp and hold an edge very nicely non of which cost me more than 10 bucks.

[Michael Ray Smith]

Loose handles may or may not be an issue in terms of function but they can be a distraction or a precision issue and you can't tell for sure from pictures.

True, but most of them can be fixed with a little CA glue or epoxy. Try the CA glue first, and if that doesn't work, try epoxy. Maybe not a good thing if you're looking to sell to collectors, but I'm not.

As for banged up blades. . . .yes, you can put a LOT of work into reconditioning a blade that has been abused or is heavily pitted.

[Michael Ray Smith]

Pete and I think Curtis too, use a longer very sharp knife to do the larger cuts on chair seats. This is what got my attention in my chair class more than anything. Using slicing cuts with a very sharp long blade Pete was able to do in one stroke what a bunch of smaller cuts will never do, make a large extremely smooth cut that can not be improved on with any other tool, sand paper, card scraper....

Good information. I'll remember that. "Long" meaning what, 10-12"?

[Don Slaughter]

Randy, Russ doesn't teach the chair making class at Palomar....Mine was his last class there but he does teach in his own shop. Check out his website or call him. http://www.russfilbeck.net/ I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of that class. He is an excellent teacher. P M me for more info if you want. Where are you? I'm in North Park.
Don

[Mike Holbrook]

Michael, I will try a little glue on the Weatherby drawknife, should have thought of that.

I believe a 10" drawknife is what I have seen them use on those chair seat cuts. Probably as important is that the knife be very sharp though. I believe this is why they save a specific knife for just that work. Pete and Seth, Pete's cohort at the time, made some amazing cuts on chair seats with those longer slicing cuts. Both instructors encouraged everyone to make bolder, larger cuts even on spindles. It amazed me how they could do so much more in a small fraction of the cuts and time. I was a little freaked out when Pete sat at a horse and made a great spindle from a full blank in maybe 5 minuets when everyone in the class went through three or four multiple hour stages to produce lesser spindles. On the spindles Pete keep suggesting that I take longer deeper cuts. It was like I was playing an 18 hole golf course with a putter while they kept knocking out more precise cuts with a driver.

[John Coloccia]

FWIW, the Pfeil I have may be the nicest draw knife I've used. Yep, I bought it brand new, and yep, I'd buy it brand new again.

[David Ragan]

FWIW, the Pfeil I have may be the nicest draw knife I've used. Yep, I bought it brand new, and yep, I'd buy it brand new again.

The local Flea Market is here in two weekends. I'll go there and see what they have.

For anyone in north Atlanta, the Cumming FM is the third Wkd of the month.

What's up with the straight across handles here:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Images/products/600/05T11.jpg?rand=928681667

Certainly, Pfiel is excellent stuff-John, why do you prefer them over any other?

Here are the other two.........Seems like my parameters are blade length, bevel up/down(?), and tilt of the handles.....beside quality of the edge.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Images/products/600/05T12.jpg?rand=298339517

http://www.woodcraft.com/Images/products/600/05Z03.jpg?rand=542261126
The one above is $135.

[John Coloccia]

I have the second one you posted. I just think the proportions are just right for the typical kinds of things I do, and the metal takes a good edge and keeps it for a while. It's just a very pleasant tool to use if your work isn't too big to use it. I don't know what's up with those goofy, straight handles.

re: bevel up or down
Same as a chisel, depending on what you're trying to do, but I would say bevel down the vast majority of the time. Bevel up may help you knock off a high spot here and there, somewhat like a paring chisel, and it's probably useful for debarking a tree, too. For shaping, I'm generally bevel down.