Cabinet Saw Stability

[John Sanford]

I'm planning on building a "saw station" for my SawStop PCS cabinet saw, much like saw stations that are frequently built for contractor's and benchtop saws. My question relates to the casters. Do y'all think that locking casters will provide enough stability when using the saw (note that the weight of the entire saw station will likely be over 600 lbs), or should I look at some method of firmly planting the station when it's cuttin' time.

[Kent A Bathurst]

John - -

Usually, on commercially available mobile bases or OEM mobility kits, what you find is a pair of non-swivel casters on one end, and legs/feet on the other - - with a mechanism that lifts that end of the saw/machine off the floor onto swivel caster[s] for moving.

This arrangement is very stable. There are a number of ways to make it yourself, but I'd consider whatever SS has to offer.

As far as a direct answer to your question: I have never used locking casters that performed well enough for me to want to use them for this purpose. However - that is definitely limited by the casters I have used - - may be better ones out there, but I have used a variety, and I would not do it. I want those legs solidly on the ground.

[Allan Speers]

My experience with even expensive casters is that they allow a tiny bit of vibration. It's not something that I've let bother me, but it's a consideration.

There is a different type of locking wheel available, I forget what they are called technically, but they are casters with a spring-loaded foot right next to them. The idea is that you roll the machine to its spot, then lock down the feet, and they rails the machine slightly OFF the casters, for rock-solid support.

They are expensive, however. which is why I've never tried them. They might be worth it on a planer or jointer, probably not on a TS.

[Mike Cutler]

It will take higher quality casters than what are normally supplied with Mobil base kits. The caster will need to be at a 90 degree angle to the saw blade. For stability.

I have a 1700#?jointer sitting on a temporary Mobil base with four, six inch urethane casters. It is rock solid as my crappy garage floor can allow it to be. These casters were $50.00 each.

If you're willing to put the $$$$ into casters, you can lock that saw down.

[Matt Day]

It will take higher quality casters than what are normally supplied with Mobil base kits. The caster will need to be at a 90 degree angle to the saw blade. For stability.

I have a 1700#?jointer sitting on a temporary Mobil base with four, six inch urethane casters. It is rock solid as my crappy garage floor can allow it to be. These casters were $50.00 each.

If you're willing to put the $$$$ into casters, you can lock that saw down.

+1.

There are an amazing amount of casters available for all kinds of applications, more than the (relatively) cheap ones offered at woodworking stores. Check out Mcmaster for a good selection.

[ian maybury]

Must say my sense John is that it's less about the casters (for sure casters can be sorced that are strong enough to support a saw) than the flatness of the shop floor, and the rigidity of the saw cabinet, extension tables and associated hardware.
I've to varying degrees been through the issue on a few machines - testing the effects of e.g. lifting one corner on key machine alignments. Mobility kits are common usage, and they are sold by lots of machine makers but they to my mind are not a good idea at all.

The basic issue is that when you get a machine accurately set up the support it's receiving from the floor is part and parcel of that set up. The problem that arises is that if you move it it's unlikely to be returned to precisely the same location on the floor - with the result that the feet are no longer in the same plane/at the same levels as before. Not even close in the case of a wonky floor. So the machine gets twisted unless it's stiff enough to resist - in which case it'll wobble about since all the feet won't contact the floor at once. In practice most machines are flexible enough that the issue is masked (and it's hugely tempting to not look further) and the feet touch down - but at a cost.

It's hard to expect a machine that's frequently moved around to deliver much precision. Slip a pry bar under one foot, lever it up and down and observe what happens - chances are (unless it's very rigid) that all the other feet will stay flat on the floor. Then pop a dial gage (say a Oneway gage) on e.g. the outfeed table of a planer thicknesser, and see how that plays with the knife height setting and table coplanarity.

Smaller footprints and stiffer cabinets as on traditional cabinet saws and small shapers may be less at risk of twisting and distortion than others. Planer thicknessers and format panel saws with fabricatd steel chassis are particularly unsuited to being moved about, but in practice almost everything will suffer consequences. That said the former are particularly susceptible to problems, in that many while looking really solid have minimal torsion/twisting resistance (the sides are really only linked only by lower platform, the cross members at high level are minimal) - and any twisting has major effects on set up adjustments. While much less critical extension tables on a saw will probably twist like there's no tomorrow too.

Needs must on occasion, i have a shaper on wheels as i'm very tight for space. One strategy i've used is to mark around the feet of all of my machines on the floor (by drawing around the levelling pads with a felt pen) - so that if a move can't be avoided that it's at least possible to return a machine to precisely the same position every time for use...

[Larry Frank]

I have the PCS and the Industrial Mobile Base. It offers the mobility along with having the saw sit on the floor...kind of the best of both worlds with casters and still sits solid on the floor. Expensive yes but really works well.

[Hoang N Nguyen]

I would assume with good quality casters you should be okay. My the mobile base for my powermatic jointer has 2 fixed wheels and a swivel caster in front and I have to say it sucks. My jointer has moved on me half the time I've used it, no big deal but it's no fun trying to walk with the jointer while feeding stock.

[David C. Roseman]

John, I would never rely on friction- or cam-actuated locking casters to stabilize a powerful cabinet saw. You might get away with it for trimming small pieces, but when ripping long stock, or dimensioning sheet goods, the friction between the material and the saw table (think of the weight of a 4 x 8 sheet of MDF or furniture-grade plywood), and the possibility of inadvertent side torque against the blade or fence, could cause whole saw to shift. IMO, the safest mobility systems are those with a mechanism to retract the casters once the machine is in place.

[Jim Dwight]

I use 4 inch totally locking casters from caster city on my saw base (for a Ryobi BT3100). With the full drawers under it, it probably weighs 200-300 lbs. I usually use it with two casters locked and can get a small amount of movement. I don't rip up sheet goods on the Ryobi any more, I use my track saw. So the small movement I sometimes get is OK with me. If I wanted it to move less, I would lock all 4. But that is not terribly easy, when the front two are exposed, the back two will not be (and vice versa). When I ripped up sheet goods on this saw, the extension rails were on, the saw was a lot bigger and heavier, and I used a different mobile base where you had to force the wheel down on one end to move the saw. It was stable then. I don't think I'd want to rip up sheet goods on a saw supported by 4 casters. I'm concerned that even with good totally locking (rolling and swiveling are locked) casters, it could move and ruin a cut.

[Joe Jensen]

I use Leveling Casters. Once you roll to where you want the machine you rotate the red dial and that lowers the rubber foot. You can even use a wrench to raise the machine to level with the caster. Just running the red dial by hand is enough to stop the machine from rolling around. The smaller ones are on my 12" jointer, my planer, and my 24" PM dual drum sander. The large ones are on a massive rolling bench that's like 32" by 72" and it has tons of tools inside. They are not cheap, the smaller ones were $35.15 each and the large ones are maybe $160 each but the quality is amazing. Ordered at sales@zambus.com

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/Mobile%20bench%20project/IMG_2207.jpg (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/AZEngineer/media/Mobile%20bench%20project/IMG_2207.jpg.html)

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Get the Sawstop mobile base. It's got excellent casters, made for your saw and works really well as your saw sits back on the ground. I don't think you can get better than that. It also does not add any significant height to the saw. I can move my 5 hp 52" ICS easily by myself.

[Peter Quinn]

I have a powermatic sitting on a powermatic mobile base, 50" rails. One end has fixed wheels that lock, the other end swivels, the locks aren't great but in use the while unit is heavy enough it doesn't move, and it's connected with quick disconnects to the outfeed table, which is a 400# oak work bench with 2" thick maple top, so that doesn't move much either. The factory solution is probably the best bang for buck unless you are able to weld and have lots of steel tubes hanging around. Decent castors can be had.

[Cary Falk]

I work out of my garage so everything is on casters. I mainly use the Woodcraft 3" or 4" 360 swivel locking casters. II don't like the unidirectional ones because they are a pain to maneuver in tight spots. I don't have a problem with vibration. If some of the lighter tools want to move when using them I lock the casters. I very seldom lock down the table saw but I can if I need to. No issues whatsoever.

[Ross Becker]

So, I saw an unusual solution to this on a fellow's unisaw. He picked up some ~ 5" wheels- possibly from a hand truck; he said he'd gotten them from an used/salvaged equipment store, with a solid axle between the wheels, and he welded brackets for the axle onto the side of his saw cabinet a few inches up. The net effect was that if the saw was resting on the ground, the wheels weren't in contact with the floor, but if he tilted the saw to the side with the wheels, they'd make contact and he could roll it around quite easily. A fairly ghetto solution, but damn cheap if you've got the means to do it, and it won't impact the stability of the tool in the slightest.

[Allan Speers]

I use Leveling Casters. Once you roll to where you want the machine you rotate the red dial and that lowers the rubber foot. You can even use a wrench to raise the machine to level with the caster. Just running the red dial by hand is enough to stop the machine from rolling around. The smaller ones are on my 12" jointer, my planer, and my 24" PM dual drum sander. The large ones are on a massive rolling bench that's like 32" by 72" and it has tons of tools inside. They are not cheap, the smaller ones were $35.15 each and the large ones are maybe $160 each but the quality is amazing. Ordered at sales@zambus.com


That's almost the same as what I was referring to, only these must be hand-turned vs foot-actuated. I think the ones I'm referring to are called something other than "leveling casters," though. I can't seem to find my info on them. A lot of woodworkers swear by them. - And yeah, $160 each sounds about right, which is why I haven't tried them !

There's also the kind of mobile base made by Shop Fox, which has hand-cranked stops instead of foot-actuated. That's more work, but has the same advantage that you can still quickly get rock-solid support on a non-level floor.

[Allan Speers]

I just remembered:

A friend of mine used to use a Ridgid Herc-U-Lift under his TS, and loved it. I dunno if they still make them. It's basically the same idea: Hard stops that flip down after you've rolled the machine into place, but they are built into a steel base.

[Scott DelPorte]

Another vote for the SawStop mobility base. I wish some of my other machines has a base that worked as well. You pump a pedal two or three times, and it lifts it onto a set of wheels so you can move it around. When the saw is in place, you press the release and the saw lowers back on to the solid feet.

[Frank Pratt]

SawStop makes a couple of great mobile bases for your saw. the PCS base has 2 fixed & 2 swivel casters that are lowered down to lift the saw off the floor. Works very well. Or for more money you can get the ICS base which has 4 swiveling casters and a hydraulic pump to raise the saw. That's the one I got with my PCS because I wanted the added maneuverability. The thing is so easy to move that when I raise up, the saw will roll down the very slightly inclined garage floor if I don't hold on to it. Pricey though.

[Allan Speers]

I've been looking for those foot-actuated levelers, but can't find them. Wish I could remember what they're called.

For a non-foot operated one, if price isn't an issue, these look darned tasty: (The deluxe version of what Joe showed. These have ratchets.)

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/material-handling/casters/specialty/swivel-plate-leveling-ratchet-caster-1100-lbs-50mm-dia-nylon-wheel-3-9-16-x-3-9-16-plate?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=CjwKEAjwluetBRD98L639p35p0QSJACC8BlKHMI2qR4q OKhQnVVDLa_X9pzGAGZ1EIn44iu9-uzzqBoCp2fw_wcB

And here's a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ECbKVmBgkg

[Tom M King]

I just use a lever and fulcrum (wrecking bar or whatever is handy and 2x block of wood for fulcrum) to lift each corner of the rig and slip a hard rubber block under. Reverse when time to move. It doesn't move, and nothing else rattle or shakes.

[Allan Speers]

Ah, I found the foot-actuated ones after all:


http://www.zoro.com/revvo-floor-lock-heavy-duty-for-casters-tlch/i/G4396883/?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google_Shopping_Feed&gclid=CjwKEAjwluetBRD98L639p35p0QSJACC8BlKB77iHwzl lUXf5tXTw-e3Yzhv8YOV4iR23mIUOWIw6RoCh-_w_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


and:

http://www.castersupply.com/NAV/lifting_casters.htm

[John Sanford]

I have the SawStop mobile base already. It doesn't raise the saw nearly enough for my wonky floor. My saw has 40" of cast iron wingage (both SawStop wings and a Benchdog ProMax Router Table) off to the right, and the SawStop slider on the left. The support legs for both the slider and my Incra fence alternately float freeeeeeeee and hook and drag due to the floor wonk. My intention is to build the station so that both the slider and extensions are supported by the station, thus they will always be supported. Because of the length of the whole rig (6'), I won't be using fixed casters.

Aside from getting fulltime support for both slider and wing, the station will contain all the usual storage for saw goodies and the router table. This way I won't have to move the storage cabinet(s) separately every time I move the saw.

It sounds like I'll be engineering a lifting system. Muchos gracias for the responses. (wish I had a bigger shop....)

[Chris Parks]

I had something similar to what you envisage, I made a perimeter steel frame with six casters under it and put the saw and cabinets I built under the extension wings on the frame. I don't know why I bothered putting locking casters on it as the thing never moved and it took two people to get it going and to push it. It never moved during cutting and it was sitting on a very flat floor and sat in the one spot for some years.

[Monte Milanuk]

I've started planning out making a mobile saw cabinet/base to hold my TS... I had been thinking of getting a Rockler All-Terrain mobile base for the bigger wheels and connectors, then building a small torsion box to provide a rigid platform under it all - I figured the All-Terrain with its lower height compared to what I would normally end up with otherwise would off-set the torsion box height somewhat... now I see these leveling casters, and yeah, their pricey, but dang, I like the idea ;)

Question for those of you who've used them... how much of a pain in the butt are they to work with in terms of when you roll the machine in question around into place and it just happens that one or more of the casters are rotated *under* the base to where they are difficult to get to? Seems like having to get down on the ground to reach under and play with a wheel or ratcheting lever would get real old, real fast. In my basement shop, the issue is less one of un-even floors as much as is being able to move things around easily - pull them out, use 'em, put 'em back. Not sure if leveling casters would be much help here?