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Paul McGaha
07-29-2015, 12:44 PM
I'm sure this topic might have a broad range of opinions. Mine are as follows:



I'm not sure what the Patriots, and especially Tom Brady, were supposed to have done. I haven't seen anything proven. I saw an article where Joe Namath weighed in on the subject and he wasn't convinced Tom Brady had done anything wrong. There was certainly no proof of any wrong doing on Tom Brady's part.
I just don't know than an ounce or 2 is going to make much of a difference in the way a football is thrown or caught. I do believe that if the air pressure in the balls changed significantly the officials (who handle the balls on every play) would have pulled them from the game.
The Patriots owner, Mr. Robert Kraft, issued a statement this morning supporting Tom Brady and bashing the NFL. It seems (to me) that the point Mr. Kraft was trying to make was the NFL seems to be trying to change the topic from the NFL has no case and hasn't proven anything as far as deflating footballs to Tom Brady didn't hand over his (personal) cell phone to a law firm (that were trying their best to public discredit him). Mr. Kraft has an excellent reputation and I think is one of the leagues best owners. The Patriots are a well run team. I think when he says something it is worth listening to.
Tom Brady is his own man. He is a true superstar. He is, I think, the biggest star the NFL has had in quite some time. He does things his own way. I can only imagine the thrill it must be to visit the white house and meet the president after your team has won a championship. This last time, He didn't even go. He said he had a family commitment. He does things his own way. I can very much understand he wouldn't just hand over his cell phone to some 2 for a nickel law firm that were trying to earn a reputation at his expense.
I've discussed this personally with a few people and everyone seems to have the same point of view: First this is a bunch of ado over nothing. It matters about as much as what kind of socks Tom Brady likes. Second, the NFL didn't prove anything.


I'm interested in what you guys think.

PHM

Phil Thien
07-29-2015, 12:59 PM
I'm sure this topic might have a broad range of opinions. Mine are as follows:



I'm not sure what the Patriots, and especially Tom Brady, were supposed to have done. I haven't seen anything proven. I saw an article where Joe Namath weighed in on the subject and he wasn't convinced Tom Brady had done anything wrong. There was certainly no proof of any wrong doing on Tom Brady's part.
I just don't know than an ounce or 2 is going to make much of a difference in the way a football is thrown or caught. I do believe that if the air pressure in the balls changed significantly the officials (who handle the balls on every play) would have pulled them from the game.
The Patriots owner, Mr. Robert Kraft, issued a statement this morning supporting Tom Brady and bashing the NFL. It seems (to me) that the point Mr. Kraft was trying to make was the NFL seems to be trying to change the topic from the NFL has no case and hasn't proven anything as far as deflating footballs to Tom Brady didn't hand over his (personal) cell phone to a law firm (that were trying their best to public discredit him). Mr. Kraft has an excellent reputation and I think is one of the leagues best owners. The Patriots are a well run team. I think when he says something it is worth listening to.
Tom Brady is his own man. He is a true superstar. He is, I think, the biggest star the NFL has had in quite some time. He does things his own way. I can only imagine the thrill it must be to visit the white house and meet the president after your team has won a championship. This last time, He didn't even go. He said he had a family commitment. He does things his own way. I can very much understand he wouldn't just hand over his cell phone to some 2 for a nickel law firm that were trying to earn a reputation at his expense.
I've discussed this personally with a few people and everyone seems to have the same point of view: First this is a bunch of ado over nothing. It matters about as much as what kind of socks Tom Brady likes. Second, the NFL didn't prove anything.


I'm interested in what you guys think.

PHM

I'd say the evidence against Brady is pretty overwhelming:

http://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-evidence-against-tom-brady-deflategate-2015-5

Greg Peterson
07-29-2015, 1:14 PM
You don't mess with the football. You don't mess with the baseball, baketball, soccer ball or puck. Football is no different.
Now then, if the Pats didn't already have a history of cheating, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.
Belechic has a great football mind, but suffers some character flaws. Integrity is one example of where he doesn't measure up with many of his peers.

Jerome Stanek
07-29-2015, 1:16 PM
why can't they play with a set of game balls that are issued by the refs. The same ball for both teams like in basketball

Pat Barry
07-29-2015, 2:00 PM
It comes down to who do you believe, Brady or Giddell. I'd go with Brady anyday. I think Giddell is on a huge power trip and all he cares about is demonstrating his power. Thats all because he got caught with his pants down last year with the Rice siituation and he has over-reacted terribly. Why did it take him so long to make the decision?

Julie Moriarty
07-29-2015, 2:32 PM
You don't mess with the football. You don't mess with the baseball, baketball, soccer ball or puck. Football is no different.
Now then, if the Pats didn't already have a history of cheating, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.
Belechic has a great football mind, but suffers some character flaws. Integrity is one example of where he doesn't measure up with many of his peers.

And if Tom Brady hadn't been one of the people who appealed to the NFL to allow visiting teams to bring their own footballs to the game, he might not look so complicit. No ball handler is going to mess with the ball without the knowledge of the guy who throws it. Brady had to know and most likely ordered the ball handler to set the inflation pressure to his liking.

If golfers can tell the difference between golf balls, through a golf club, any pro athlete who handles the ball with his bare hands should be able to tell even minute differences. Refs don't have the touch the pros have. If they did, they would be throwing the ball.

Charlie Velasquez
07-29-2015, 3:10 PM
I haven't seen anything proven........There was certainly no proof of any wrong doing on Tom Brady's part....... the NFL didn't prove anything.....PHMNot saying this in a derogatory way, but...The NFL isn't a court of law. It is a business. A business that depends on the perception of its fans. Millions of dollars, nay, billions of dollars pass hands based on the outcomes of these games. The integrity of the games is the commish's main job.....
He doesn't have to "prove" anything. In the interest of fairness, and because of the contract, he only needs to decide it was more likely than not. So, just a little more than the flip of the coin.

But what it shows is that if there is even the whiff of systemic cheating, it will be dealt with severely.

The NFL was already under seige from its handling of several physical abuse episodes and concussion protocols. It is working on those with stricter guidelines. This, too, needed to be handled similarly.

Shawn Pixley
07-29-2015, 3:53 PM
You don't mess with the football. You don't mess with the baseball, baketball, soccer ball or puck. Football is no different.
Now then, if the Pats didn't already have a history of cheating, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.
Belechic has a great football mind, but suffers some character flaws. Integrity is one example of where he doesn't measure up with many of his peers.

I agree. It is just like doctoring a baseball or corking a bat. There is a lack of integrity on that team.

Robert LaPlaca
07-29-2015, 4:25 PM
And if Tom Brady hadn't been one of the people who appealed to the NFL to allow visiting teams to bring their own footballs to the game, he might not look so complicit. No ball handler is going to mess with the ball without the knowledge of the guy who throws it. Brady had to know and most likely ordered the ball handler to set the inflation pressure to his liking.

If golfers can tell the difference between golf balls, through a golf club, any pro athlete who handles the ball with his bare hands should be able to tell even minute differences. Refs don't have the touch the pros have. If they did, they would be throwing the ball.

Drew Bree's quarterback of the New Orleans Saints, was on the Dave Letterman show, they threw three footballs to Bree's and asked him what PSI each ball was inflated too.. Bree's correctly identified the PSI level of each ball..

On another front, Ted Williams could tell if a baseball bat was off by a 1/4 ounce..

William C Rogers
07-29-2015, 5:40 PM
From my memory every quarterback interviewed said they knew everything about the footballs. I believe Brady knew what was going on. He didn't want to turn over his cell phone and maybe that is fine, however having his assistant destroy it makes it look like he is hiding something and maybe he is. Why destroy it, unless you think he maybe forced to turn it over. IMO they got caught again and should let it go as they won't admit it.

Mike Henderson
07-29-2015, 5:56 PM
From what I heard in the news, it seems impossible that Brady did not know of the deflated balls. And it seems impossible that anyone would do that without his knowledge and assent. You're just not going to have a rogue ball handler let the air out of the balls without the quarterback's knowledge.

His destruction of his phone may not prove anything but it's sure suspicious. Certainly looks like he didn't want anyone to read his text messages.

Mike

paul cottingham
07-29-2015, 6:06 PM
The NFL and NFL fans have really driven a lot of this; win, and win at any expense. We have to be honest about this.

Phil Thien
07-29-2015, 6:49 PM
The NFL and NFL fans have really driven a lot of this; win, and win at any expense. We have to be honest about this.

It would be interesting to see some statistics indicating what percentage of fans think it would be okay for their team to cheat, and to what degree.

Personally, I say zero. But I know just from reading this thread and others like it elsewhere that some would be okay with it.

Kent A Bathurst
07-29-2015, 7:02 PM
C'mon, Paul, brudda........

He did it. He did it all. Guilty as sin. Kraft is an idiot. Not because of this, but merely because he is an idiot.

If Nixon had burned the tapes, he could still have been impeached in the House, but never convicted in the Senate.

Brady's version - when NFL asked for his cell, he went home and stuffed it in a blender, or something. He's subject to the penalty process of some entertainment gang, not a court of law. And the gang just laughed at his lame-butt story.

Brady won't go broke. His records will still stand. He gets 4 weeks extra vacation on a beach with a top supermodel. If I was him, I'da asked for 6 games.............

The whole thing is laughable, to me.

Larry Frank
07-29-2015, 7:16 PM
Whenever my kids would try to avoid the truth, I could always see it in some snarky attitude. Brady had this snarky smile that makes you just wonder. And the coach, his act today was sad. He just wanted to be a wise guy.

Do I trust these guys...No

Do I think Brady knew or was involved...Yes

Do these guys think they are above the rules....Yes

Do I want to hear anymore of this....No

Pat Barry
07-29-2015, 8:06 PM
C'mon, Paul, brudda........

He did it. He did it all. Guilty as sin. Kraft is an idiot. Not because of this, but merely because he is an idiot.

If Nixon had burned the tapes, he could still have been impeached in the House, but never convicted in the Senate.

Brady's version - when NFL asked for his cell, he went home and stuffed it in a blender, or something. He's subject to the penalty process of some entertainment gang, not a court of law. And the gang just laughed at his lame-butt story.

Brady won't go broke. His records will still stand. He gets 4 weeks extra vacation on a beach with a top supermodel. If I was him, I'da asked for 6 games.............

The whole thing is laughable, to me.


They don't need his cell phone. That's a smokescreen. They got the cell phones of the other guys. All they want is to impose their power,just to prove a point - nothing to be gained

Paul McGaha
07-29-2015, 8:09 PM
C'mon, Paul, brudda........

He did it. He did it all. Guilty as sin. Kraft is an idiot. Not because of this, but merely because he is an idiot.

If Nixon had burned the tapes, he could still have been impeached in the House, but never convicted in the Senate.

Brady's version - when NFL asked for his cell, he went home and stuffed it in a blender, or something. He's subject to the penalty process of some entertainment gang, not a court of law. And the gang just laughed at his lame-butt story.

Brady won't go broke. His records will still stand. He gets 4 weeks extra vacation on a beach with a top supermodel. If I was him, I'da asked for 6 games.............

The whole thing is laughable, to me.

I don't know Kent. I think I'm a pretty decent judge of character, Mr. Kraft doesn't strike me as being a cheat or an idiot. He's got an excellent reputation. I don't know that I've ever read a single negative word about him. His wife passed a few years ago and she was well known in their community for being a wonderful person. Both of them are held in that kind of regard.

As for Tom Brady, I don't know. I just don't think it mattered too much and this whole thing is way, way overblown. That and there is very little to suggest he was involved. I guess next year the NFL will be looking into what kind of socks he wears and do they give him a competitive advantage somehow.

I think issues such as violence and using PED's are much more important than all the time and money they've spent on this.

I'm not even a Patriots fan, or a Tom Brady fan. I do respect and admire what they've accomplished though since about the time Bill Belichick came to the team.

PHM

Paul McGaha
07-29-2015, 8:13 PM
Thank you all for chiming in. I appreciate your point of view.

PHM

Bruce Page
07-29-2015, 8:50 PM
Do I trust these guys...No

Do I think Brady knew or was involved...Yes

Do these guys think they are above the rules....Yes

Do I want to hear anymore of this....No

Larry's post sums up how I feel about it. The sad thing is Belichick, Brady and the Patriots don't need an advantage to win. They can beat any team on any given day with just their talent alone.

Mike Cutler
07-29-2015, 8:51 PM
Paul

This was a train wreck from the get go. The pure amount of nonsense coming from the Patriots was embarrassing. Had he just admitted from the beginning that he liked the ball at a lower pressure, but within spec's, I don't think it ever would have gotten that far.
Their feeble attempt at trying to employ Boyle's law, was so lame, that as a Pat's fan, I cringed.Where did they get their experts. :eek:
They created, as an organization, the perception of deceit. Unfortunately,perception can easily become a reality.The Patriots and Tom Brady have no one to blame but themselves.

As an aside.
In not one article did I read that the Patriots, or any other organization was using an NIST traceable gauge for inflation pressure. Without NIST traceability, and standards adherence, there is not one accurately provable, inflated football,anywhere in the NFL. A multi billion dollar entity using junky peanut gauges, is just ridiculous.
The NFL needs to clean their side of the house, just as we'll as the Patriots organization.

Bryan Lisowski
07-29-2015, 9:06 PM
Brady handled this poorly from the start. He knew what was going on. The Patriots (Brady, Kraft, and The Hoodie) think they are smarter than everybody else. If they did nothing wrong from the start why did they suspend the equipment guys? If they used science to prove the air came out if the balls naturally during the course of the game, why didn't the same scientific principles happen to the colts balls. Hey Tom, you did the crime now serve the time!

I will say he deserves to be suspended but what he did doesn't compare to Greg Hardy and they get the same suspension length. Maybe these idiots that hit women should have to spend 5 minutes in a ring with Rhonda Rousey.

Kent A Bathurst
07-29-2015, 9:10 PM
This was a train wreck from the get go. The pure amount of nonsense coming from the Patriots was embarrassing.

^^^ Yeah. This. ^^^

Don Jarvie
07-29-2015, 9:11 PM
Is there a science to why wood moves? It's all seems to move for us doesn't it? Is it some god moving it to make us miserable and mess with our projects or can we look to science to explain why wood moves?

Same with footballs. There is an ideal gas law for a reason. Something inflated will decrease in size when it gets cold and reinflate when it gets warm. There have been numerous scientists that have examined the Wells report and shown the balls acted according to the ideal gas law. The data from the Wells report was cooked to prove a point that the balls were deflated.

Yes I'm a Pats fan and Brady supporter but I would support any other team accused give the same facts. The science shows nothing was done and that's what I believe.

Barry McFadden
07-29-2015, 9:40 PM
Brady handled this poorly from the start. He knew what was going on. The Patriots (Brady, Kraft, and The Hoodie) think they are smarter than everybody else. If they did nothing wrong from the start why did they suspend the equipment guys? If they used science to prove the air came out if the balls naturally during the course of the game, why didn't the same scientific principles happen to the colts balls. Hey Tom, you did the crime now serve the time!

I will say he deserves to be suspended but what he did doesn't compare to Greg Hardy and they get the same suspension length. Maybe these idiots that hit women should have to spend 5 minutes in a ring with Rhonda Rousey.

A day after the game I read that the officials only had time to check 5 of the Colt's balls before halftime was over and 4 of them were under inflated.....why was nothing more said about that!!

Mel Fulks
07-29-2015, 10:04 PM
I hadn't thought about before,but I think it's easier to justify rule bending on a team as " these guys deserved to win" than carrying the guilt of cheating in individual sports. Bobby Jones once demanded a penalty against himself in a golf tournament when he inadvertantly made the ball move before he hit it. When he was praised for that he said " you might as well thank a man for not robbing a bank ".

Phil Thien
07-29-2015, 10:54 PM
Brady handled this poorly from the start. He knew what was going on. The Patriots (Brady, Kraft, and The Hoodie) think they are smarter than everybody else. If they did nothing wrong from the start why did they suspend the equipment guys? If they used science to prove the air came out if the balls naturally during the course of the game, why didn't the same scientific principles happen to the colts balls. Hey Tom, you did the crime now serve the time!

I will say he deserves to be suspended but what he did doesn't compare to Greg Hardy and they get the same suspension length. Maybe these idiots that hit women should have to spend 5 minutes in a ring with Rhonda Rousey.

Exactly, we need to maintain perspective. I don't condone cheating but we shouldn't make this into something bigger than it was.

At the same time it bugs me to no end that the Patriots are going to take this to the courts. It would be awesome if the judge tacked something onto the punishment when they find for the NFL.

Harold Burrell
07-30-2015, 10:44 AM
My thoughts on the Patriots:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

If I must have an opinion, it is this: I do not like them. They are from the same state that the Red Sox are from...

Doug W Swanson
07-30-2015, 10:50 AM
One of the best QB's in NFL history should know when a football is soft. Tom Brady knew that the footballs were soft (and to his liking) because if they were not, he would have have raised heck to have them fixed.

Brady is just trying to save face by playing dumb and saying he knew nothing.

Pat Barry
07-30-2015, 11:50 AM
Lets say Brady likes his balls on the soft side, maybe especially so in cold weather games. The ball guy knows this so he inflates to the minimum spec in the locker room. Those balls go out onto the field and become acclimated to freezing conditions and it is natural that the pressure in them will drop due to the temperature decrease. In fact, a 12.5 PSI ball in the locker room willl become 11.5 PSI at 32 F (0 C) - thats physics. Brady doesn't know or care what the actual gage pressure of the ball is. In fact the NFL doesn't require that the ball pressure be adjusted as a function of the field temperature - the pressure test is done in the warm and toasty locker room. So in fact, Brady got the soft balls he was looking for and the NFL (Giddell) is somehow acting like Brady did something wrong when in fact the NFL does a poor job of specifying the conditions for the pressure of the ball. Oh, what about the balls not being up to minimum pressure when they got re-tested? Simply stated, the balls were still cold when they were retested in the locker room - if the ref's (no scientists to be sure) had waited for the balls to re-acclimate to the locker room temperature - maybe an hour or so, they would have been back to minimum temperature. All this can easily be demonstrated. It would be just like the OJ case with the glove that doesn't fit. If the NFL does go to court in this case they will end up looking foolish (again)

Phil Thien
07-30-2015, 11:57 AM
Lets say Brady likes his balls on the soft side, maybe especially so in cold weather games. The ball guy knows this so he inflates to the minimum spec in the locker room. Those balls go out onto the field and become acclimated to freezing conditions and it is natural that the pressure in them will drop due to the temperature decrease. In fact, a 12.5 PSI ball in the locker room willl become 11.5 PSI at 32 F (0 C) - thats physics. Brady doesn't know or care what the actual gage pressure of the ball is. In fact the NFL doesn't require that the ball pressure be adjusted as a function of the field temperature - the pressure test is done in the warm and toasty locker room. So in fact, Brady got the soft balls he was looking for and the NFL (Giddell) is somehow acting like Brady did something wrong when in fact the NFL does a poor job of specifying the conditions for the pressure of the ball. Oh, what about the balls not being up to minimum pressure when they got re-tested? Simply stated, the balls were still cold when they were retested in the locker room - if the ref's (no scientists to be sure) had waited for the balls to re-acclimate to the locker room temperature - maybe an hour or so, they would have been back to minimum temperature. All this can easily be demonstrated. It would be just like the OJ case with the glove that doesn't fit. If the NFL does go to court in this case they will end up looking foolish (again)

Well we have to get the figures right.

The balls have to be inflated to a 12.5 PSI minimum.

They measured, at halftime, at 10.5 PSI.

The temps were not brutal, it was 51F at kickoff. For the balls to deflate by 2#, you'd need a 40F differential in temperature, far greater than the temp from locker room to field.

Finally, the Indianapolis balls tested within spec at halftime.

Mike Null
07-30-2015, 12:23 PM
I hope Brady sues the NFL for double the money they're trying to extort from him. They're hitting him for nearly a million per game of suspension and they have no proof of wrong-doing.

Glenn Clabo
07-30-2015, 12:40 PM
Well we have to get the figures right.

The balls have to be inflated to a 12.5 PSI minimum.

They measured, at halftime, at 10.5 PSI.

The temps were not brutal, it was 51F at kickoff. For the balls to deflate by 2#, you'd need a 40F differential in temperature, far greater than the temp from locker room to field.

Finally, the Indianapolis balls tested within spec at halftime.

This isn't about the deflation of footballs...as with so many public issues...it's about the cover up...and lack of cooperation. What happened after the fact is much more important than what happened during the game...which was a slaughter. I'm a Pats fan...I think Brady is one of the best ever. I also think he followed what his lawyers told him to do...and that makes him stupid...and he deserves to pay the price.
Just to make sure you got the figures right..."They" weren't measured at halftime at 10.5 psi. 11 Pats balls were tested with 2 gages. One gage...they ranged from 11.85 to 10.50 psig. The other...they ranged from 12.30 to 10.90 psig. Temp range was 73.5 deg F to 48 deg F. (iaw Wells report...pg 50)
But again...it's not about the pressures.

Phil Thien
07-30-2015, 1:19 PM
This isn't about the deflation of footballs...as with so many public issues...it's about the cover up...and lack of cooperation. What happened after the fact is much more important than what happened during the game...which was a slaughter. I'm a Pats fan...I think Brady is one of the best ever. I also think he followed what his lawyers told him to do...and that makes him stupid...and he deserves to pay the price.
Just to make sure you got the figures right..."They" weren't measured at halftime at 10.5 psi. 11 Pats balls were tested with 2 gages. One gage...they ranged from 11.85 to 10.50 psig. The other...they ranged from 12.30 to 10.90 psig. Temp range was 73.5 deg F to 48 deg F. (iaw Wells report...pg 50)
But again...it's not about the pressures.

Thank you for the correction, Glenn.

Pat Barry
07-30-2015, 1:39 PM
This isn't about the deflation of footballs...as with so many public issues...it's about the cover up...and lack of cooperation. What happened after the fact is much more important than what happened during the game...which was a slaughter. I'm a Pats fan...I think Brady is one of the best ever. I also think he followed what his lawyers told him to do...and that makes him stupid...and he deserves to pay the price.
Just to make sure you got the figures right..."They" weren't measured at halftime at 10.5 psi. 11 Pats balls were tested with 2 gages. One gage...they ranged from 11.85 to 10.50 psig. The other...they ranged from 12.30 to 10.90 psig. Temp range was 73.5 deg F to 48 deg F. (iaw Wells report...pg 50)
But again...it's not about the pressures.
Damn facts anyway - LOL

Ragardless, that's pretty bad correlation between those gauges. Probably just as bad to compare to the one that the ball boy used to inflate the balls to Brady's preference (right at the bottom end of the spec because we know Brady didn't / wouldn't violate the rules)

Julie Moriarty
07-31-2015, 8:12 AM
Brady is innocent. It was Dougie Spoons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RGRyTGUbv4

Bert Kemp
07-31-2015, 12:11 PM
Is Brady a Great Quarterback....................................... ........................ Absolutely
is there any concrete proof he knew about the balls..................................No
Did it have any impact on the out come of the game..................................None What so ever
Does the punishment fit the crime if there was a crime................................Absolutely NOT!!!! even if he did know.

The Patriot's and Brady turned over every thing the NFL asked for including his cell phone, and all text messages included. They never asked for his personal phone and told him it wasn't part of the investigation. So why the big deal now.
Is this blown way out of proportion OH YEA!!!!

paul cottingham
07-31-2015, 1:17 PM
Here is the heart of the matter. They lied and are covering up. Frankly, ball inflation is a bit of a red herring, im pretty sure for every quarterback who like a ball a certain pressure, there are just as many who prefer it softer, or harder. Frankly, i suspect if it wasnt the Patriots, Bellicheck, and Brady, no one would really care.

Bevel down! Bevel up! Oil stones! Water stones! Power tools! Neanderthal!

Get my point? Im not known for my subtlety.

kevin nee
08-01-2015, 8:02 PM
When TOM BRADY is exonerated and wins his fith SUPER BOWL rogerr goodell's salary will be about 50 million and he will still be making WRONG judgements.

Kent A Bathurst
08-01-2015, 10:36 PM
...blah, blah, blah, blah blah...........

fixt for you, Kevin. ;)

see, are, double-oh, kay. man up and deal with it, eh?

Tom Stenzel
08-01-2015, 11:24 PM
It's times like these that make me grateful my team is the Detroit Lions. It's given me The Cure; I hate football.

Blah? You bet!

-Tom

William Payer
08-02-2015, 8:30 AM
It's times like these that make me grateful my team is the Detroit Lions. It's given me The Cure; I hate football.

Blah? You bet!

-Tom


Yep Tom,

The only things that get deflated regarding the Lions are our hopes, dreams, and expectations ! :)

John A langley
08-02-2015, 8:46 AM
It bothers me that professional sports is win at all cost when the integrity of the game is lost something needs to be done to correct that. The cheating like betting on baseball, beating our wives and girlfriends, deflating footballs, leaves the impression that as long as you're making a lot of money playing a professional sport you can do whatever you want The part that worries me the most is what the messages it sending to our kids Young people playing Pop Warner high school and college football or baseball or basketball when get put on a pedestal think they can do what they want to The idea Tom Brady is going to lose $4 million is being a big loss come on That chump change to him. Do I think he did it yes do I think it mattered to the game no

Curt Harms
08-02-2015, 8:47 AM
Here is the heart of the matter. They lied and are covering up. Frankly, ball inflation is a bit of a red herring, im pretty sure for every quarterback who like a ball a certain pressure, there are just as many who prefer it softer, or harder. Frankly, i suspect if it wasnt the Patriots, Bellicheck, and Brady, no one would really care.

Bevel down! Bevel up! Oil stones! Water stones! Power tools! Neanderthal!

Get my point? Im not known for my subtlety.


It apparently has been common for years for teams to 'adjust' the pressure of footballs to suit Q.B.s There was a retired Q.B. (don't recall who now) who said just that. The same article said that fines in the NFL are levied and paid frequently with no fuss or wide public knowledge. It's the faux self-righteous indignation of repeat offenders that's the issue.

Ball pressure had no impact on the Pats-Indy game. How about the Pats-Ravens game where the Pats won by the skin of their teeth? Is it possible that an easier-to-grip ball could have been the difference in that game? I'm sceptical that the Pats-Colts game is the first time 'the deflator' did his thing.

Lud martinson
08-02-2015, 4:25 PM
Innocent until proven guilty . Beyond a reasonable doubt. Had the media bloodhounds, swarming in their short term frenzy, come up with anything else more meaningful we would have Brady swinging in the wind today. What did they get-nothing. In fact there was nothing to get. No details as to game day footballs. Pump 'em up to X pounds, give the same amount to each team and let the equipment guys handle a dozen each that the two opposing QBs like and let's get on with it. Now I agree with rules that come from mistakes. Have a crew of ball handlers with certified scales, unbiased to either teams, that sort of thing. That's probably our future.
One rule will for sure be in every head coaches play sheet : don't create a crossing route to fake out the defense with short yardage and the game's on the line while your running back seems unstoppable AND THE BEST IN THE BUSINESS!

Curt Harms
08-03-2015, 9:23 AM
Innocent until proven guilty . Beyond a reasonable doubt.

That is true in criminal proceedings. These are not criminal proceedings. The ball deflation issue is a league rule, not a criminal issue nor even a civil law violation. The federal court proceedings are related to labor law, the NFL collective bargaining agreement and the league's authority to impose the 4 game suspension as I understand it, not the ball air pressure issue. And yeah, calling a pass on the goal line by a team not especially known for their passing game is I'm sure a decision that will haunt Pete for years to come.

Rich Enders
08-03-2015, 3:12 PM
I have no way to verify this, but was told that the Pat's only fumbled 70% of the average of the other teams. If true, are the Pat's that much better at holding on to the football. or......?

Glenn Clabo
08-03-2015, 3:49 PM
I have no way to verify this, but was told that the Pat's only fumbled 70% of the average of the other teams. If true, are the Pat's that much better at holding on to the football. or......?

Statistics are sometimes in the eye of the author or viewer. Lots of Internet "facts" flying around. Besides the fact that coaches make the players carry around a ball at all times and everyone is free try to take it away... Here's a good (albeit long statistics loaded) read...
http://regressing.deadspin.com/why-those-statistics-about-the-patriots-fumbles-are-mos-1681805710

Shawn Pixley
08-03-2015, 6:17 PM
Is Brady a Great Quarterback....................................... ........................ Absolutely
is there any concrete proof he knew about the balls..................................No
Did it have any impact on the out come of the game..................................None What so ever
Does the punishment fit the crime if there was a crime................................Absolutely NOT!!!! even if he did know.

The Patriot's and Brady turned over every thing the NFL asked for including his cell phone, and all text messages included. They never asked for his personal phone and told him it wasn't part of the investigation. So why the big deal now.
Is this blown way out of proportion OH YEA!!!!

By that logic, spitballs should be legal in baseball. Is he a great quarterback, yes. Did he try to gain an advantage by breaking or bending the rules, probably. Does this affect trust in the "brand of Football"? - absolutely. Just like steroids in Baseball. IMO the penalty does fit the crime. We'll agree to disagree.

Rich Enders
08-03-2015, 9:09 PM
Thanks for the read Glenn. "89.4% of all statistics are generated on the spot" ... or something along those lines, according to one of our Sawmill Creek members.

Jebediah Eckert
08-03-2015, 9:34 PM
318920

Moderators, please lock this thread. :D

Val Kosmider
08-04-2015, 1:18 PM
The whole thing didn't bother me much, and I was of the opinion that the NFL was way off base because the fined Brady without having any evidence. How can you find a person guilty when there is no evidence? That struck me as "odd".

Now we know that Brady destroyed the evidence! That is never a good move when you are trying to maintain your innocence. If it goes to trial, the Court is not going to look favorably on that.

Overall, how can so much time and money have been spent on something which had NO impact on the outcome of a sporting game? (But from what I read, is really messing up the Sports Betting Books because a bet involving New England is a very different proposition with/without Brady).

Paul McGaha
09-03-2015, 2:30 PM
Tom Brady's suspension is nullified by Judge Berman:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000520618/article/judge-nullifies-tom-bradys-fourgame-suspension

Uuummm.

PHM

Jebediah Eckert
09-03-2015, 2:39 PM
320753

goat

Patrick Walsh
09-03-2015, 4:57 PM
Go Pats!

Haters gonna hate lol...

Larry Frank
09-03-2015, 7:01 PM
So...Brady's suspension has been lifted. Are the Patriots going to rehire the two scapegoats that they fired? Brady knew but not evidence and NFL did not do proper notifications. So the Patriots got away with it but will always be an asterisk when his legacy is discussed.

He is a great player and did not need to this..

Tony Zona
09-03-2015, 7:32 PM
Somebody who knows can help me through this, but don't both teams' quarterbacks use the same balls?

Jebediah Eckert
09-03-2015, 8:12 PM
So...Brady's suspension has been lifted. Are the Patriots going to rehire the two scapegoats that they fired? Brady knew but not evidence and NFL did not do proper notifications. So the Patriots got away with it but will always be an asterisk when his legacy is discussed.

He is a great player and did not need to this..

Larry, I'm one of those who loves football and am a Patriots. But at the same time I do understand football "is not real life" so take this for what it's worth, come on it's just sports. If you followed it carefully I'm not sure you would say there is an asterisk behind his legacy. In his 16th year he has overcome any odds of success, has never even been reprimanded for anything, and has been "good" for sports in general. If the tiny variations in ball pressure mattered at all don't you think better care and control would have been imposed? It's a billion dollar business, they are not on the honor system here. I read the report handed down today because I don't trust being told what to think. Proper notifications is a tiny tiny part of it. People look at Brady as the wealthy guy who won on a technicality. We forget how powerful the NFL is, they OWN a day of the week for almost half the year! What other company can say that?

It started as a completely inaccurate report released by the employer to test the waters and went from there. At this point who knows what if anything happened? It's laughable that even if this happened as the NFL said it's "cheating"? If small changes in pressure is an advantage, at the levels caused by nature, they better start installing vacuums on the sidelines with armed guards to make sure nobody "cheats."

I know the Patriots win, and win a lot. Anyone who's been around for a while knows this has not always been the case. It is a recent phenomenon. Google all the violations punished this past year, a deflated ball won't even make the top 5.

There was a time when people rooted for the underdog, Cinderella story, going up against a corporate powerhouse........

Would you have given up your cell phone to your employer even when advised by your attorney, and your Union not to? If you don't have anything to hide why not? Because you were advised not to by the people paid to advise you, and the employer has a terrible history of leaks. Look what happened with the emails, leaked right away.

The two Patriots employees were not "scapegoats." They were told to suspend them by the NFL and they complied. The NFL now has to approve them returning to work. So wether they do or don't has nothing to do with the Patriots. If they were going to be scapegoats wouldn't the blame been on them solely? It would have been easy for the Patriots to say they did it on their own to make it "easier" on Brady. I'm sure both would have publicly came out and say they did it to protect the organization and Brady. It's not like it's a crime. One guy is a part time employee who is a lifelong "fan", he would have been glad to I'm sure.

This hasnt changed anything for anybody. If you believe he's been railroaded you still do. If you think he's guilty you can put your asterisks next to his name, but they will be hard to see next to the 4 Lomardi Trophys.

Being from Indiana I don't blame you, I would still be mad at their last meeting with the Colts. :D

Shawn Pixley
09-03-2015, 8:34 PM
No, each team uses only the balls they supply

Jebediah Eckert
09-03-2015, 8:38 PM
No, each team uses only the balls they supply

For non football fans I know that seems ridiculous............ah, I think I have to agree.

Shawn Pixley
09-03-2015, 8:45 PM
Sorry, It has been disproven that the temperatures could have caused that discrepancy in pressures.

The Patriots have a pattern of cheating and bending the rules. The are not the underdogs who can be rooted for here. Neither Can the NFL be rooted for. The actions of both diminish the game. Yes there will be an asterisk. Just like there will be an asterisk on Bonds, Rodriguez, Giambi, Suarez, Zidane, etc… Great players all, but lacking in character and judgement.

Do I believe that Brady is honest and upstanding? No. I think that he is such a competitor that if he thinks he can get an edge he will. Do I think he is a great quarterback? Yes. But the ends do not justify the means.

Jebediah Eckert
09-03-2015, 9:35 PM
The ideal gas law has not been disproven, or are you referring to the Bill Nye the Science guy video? There were two needles used, yeah that's scientific, and went with the results the referee best remembered using. The other set of results are within the ideal gas law. I have no idea if that's what happened, but being overlooked isn't the same as being disproven. You can find as many "scientific" reports proving it as disproving it. Even Harvard and MIt students did one but that's beyond me. But I do know that when it gets cold here my tire pressure light goes on and I have to add air. Not scientific for sure but as a regular guy that makes sense to me. It never happens in the summer. That's my simpleton view of it.

I do agree that Brady is such a competitor that he does anything he can to get an edge. I'm just not sure how a pound of pressure, in home games only, does anything. That was 100% disproven in the second half of the Colts game and the Super Bowl.

At the end of the day the NFL wins and we were duped. Not sure by which side but duped none the less. That's what makes sports fun to watch, you need somebody to root for, or against. It wouldn't be much fun if you didn't care who won, not for me anyhow.

I like the the comparison that Brady will get an asterisk for this just like all the players mentioned that were caught repeatedly using steroids. When the NFL first made that leap I thought it was a stupid argument, as did the judge. But that is what makes the world interesting, different ways to think about the exact same thing.

It's OK to have success and be good at something, just don't be too good. I don't think anyone would care if RG3 had a ball boy take a pound of pressure out of the ball, gotta feel bad for him at this point.

Curt Harms
09-04-2015, 8:39 AM
I get the feeling that Berman's ruling was technically correct and morally wrong. I don't have the source at hand but I'm pretty sure the Patriots have quite a bit lower fumble rate at home in the cold months than visiting teams. Is this due to coaching or softer balls that are easier to get a grip on? An argument of the pro-Patriot crowd is that given the result of the N.E. - Colts game were tampered balls the deciding factor? Clearly not. But remember the game before that, N.E. vs. Ravens? Could tampered balls have been the winning edge there? I'm pretty confident that the 2015 N.E. - Colts game is not the first time 'the deflator' did his thing.

Bert Kemp
09-04-2015, 8:58 AM
Your pretty sure? Do you have information that would lead you to making a statement like that. I think if it had happened before it it would have been noticed just like this time.


I get the feeling that Berman's ruling was technically correct and morally wrong. I don't have the source at hand but I'm pretty sure the Patriots have quite a bit lower fumble rate at home in the cold months than visiting teams. Is this due to coaching or softer balls that are easier to get a grip on? An argument of the pro-Patriot crowd is that given the result of the N.E. - Colts game were tampered balls the deciding factor? Clearly not. But remember the game before that, N.E. vs. Ravens? Could tampered balls have been the winning edge there? I'm pretty confident that the 2015 N.E. - Colts game is not the first time 'the deflator' did his thing.

Jebediah Eckert
09-04-2015, 10:41 AM
Your pretty sure? Do you have information that would lead you to making a statement like that. I think if it had happened before it it would have been noticed just like this time.

You tell em' Bert. I think I heard somewhere, maybe, that probably the Patriots may score more at home then on the road, Tom is guilty. Every team but the Saints (sorry to Saints fans) did better at home last year. There is a big home field advantage in the NFL. Patriots fans won't be swayed, and Patriots fans won't be able to sway others. If you think he did it, your mind was made up a long time ago when the media gave you your opinion many months past.

Even the ESPN commentators are to the point saying, well obviously "something" happened and they should be punished. At the end of the day there is probably nobody on this forum that's lives will be better or worse for that matter because of this. It's not real life for any of us, but I find it entertaining to talk about.

Not bashing you Curt, I respect everyone's opinion and I don't take this seriously, but that is a common leap. Well, I know Brady lit up the field in the second half of the Colts game, and put together the greatest 4th quarter performance in a Super Bowl against one of the best (if not the best) secondary to every play. Ok that goes against my argument so it must be for fumbling. That's it, they fumble less at home I think, so that makes sense why they did. I knew we would find it so I can rationalize rooting for his failure in my own head. What about coaching? What about team operation? If you fumble on the Patriots you sit, period. Steven Ridley was their best running back by far two years ago when they needed him most. The offense was hurting, Gronk was out, but he fumbled. Two times, although one didn't count because of a flag. The third time, guess what, he sat, and the next game he sat. He never really was welcomed back into the fold and they looked to replace him. Was Ridley a Fumbler? No, he was AVERAGE at the time in the league, not good enough for the Patriots standards. Now he plays for the NY Jets. I wished they kept him, I liked his personality and charity work, too many mistakes. Maybe he wasn't being fed the deflated balls? Yeah, that could be it.

Steroids are banned, no ambiguity there, is it cheating? I guess you could make that argument and maybe I agree.

I only allow you to have an opinion on this if you read the Wells report, the piece done on what was omitted in the report and how it was steered to suit the end result, and the Judges decision. If still you think he cheated I can respect that. I know, I know, why would the NFL even WANT to punish somebody like Brady, why would they want these results? If you paid attention to the last two seasons, who is getting punished and all over the news, seemingly weekly, for doing crazy things? Some of them on video? Of course they want to hammer somebody like Brady. Look world we are fair, we even punished Brady hard, it's nothing personal.

Again, this is one of those things minds were made up seven months ago, they are not going to change.

When it comes to football, minds go simple, mine especially. I don't even care at this point what really happened.

A great point was brought up on ESPN this morning I had not thought of. Maybe this whole thing, or at least how far it was pushed, was the NFLs first attempt at contract negotiations to put more money in owners pockets. The next contract focus won't be on money like always, it will be on negotiating away the extreme power the commissioner has. Smart, they realized they have it, was never an issue, now a federal judge says you can't do anything you feel like regardless. NFL will be happy to change it because they are sick of losing, and the players don't want it. No problem, we will get rid of it but it will cost you. Win for owners.

Watch the "Brady 6", it's on YouTube. A sixth round, 199th pick in the draft, was never expected to be anything. Look at him now, an American underdog success story, through extreme hard work, God given talents, and a competitive drive second to none. If you want to put an "asterisk" next to his name because a firm, once hired by the tobacco industry to release a report that smoking wasn't harmful, concluded that he "more probably then not" had knowledge that somebody else may have deflated (we are talking from 1/10 pd to a pound or about 8%) footballs, in the same game that an NFL official stole a ball to sell and replaced it with a grossly under inflated ball, go ahead.

Again, I respect everyone's opinion, although I will be dismissive of it in this particular case because not many have followed it like we have in NE, and I certainly don't blame you. This isn't important, it's just entertainment.

Very few sports figures are "heroes". Many do charity work and that's great. Not true "heroes" though, they are athletes. Maybe JJ Watt comes to mind, he's close. Check out what he has done away from the media, quietly, quite remarkable.

Although if JJ Watt was more probable then not aware that the equipment manager gave him illegally light cleats, and they were set to play the Patriots, I would have to root for a one game suspension. Man he puts a hurting on those QB's.

Curt Harms
09-05-2015, 7:53 AM
Your pretty sure? Do you have information that would lead you to making a statement like that. I think if it had happened before it it would have been noticed just like this time.


Maybe that was the first time the Pats organization ever tampered with their footballs. Maybe I'll have an illicit fling with Mrs. Brady. Both are possible, neither seem likely. JMO of course.:)

William C Rogers
09-05-2015, 9:46 AM
I wish the whole thing would end. I'm a Colts fan, however the Pars would have won that game with grease on the football. I don't think it will happen ever again, so forward we should go. To me Brady has received enough "punishment" just for the probability he knew about it. New season, new beginning. As a Colts fan, the Pats are the evil foe, but I respect them and Brady to the Pats is like Manning and now Luck to the Colts. Should be an even playing field until the next incident.

Ken Combs
09-05-2015, 2:25 PM
The thing I've not seen discussed here is the way the deflation was discovered. A defensive player picked the ball up after a play and told an official that it was soft.

Now, Tom Brady has handled the football a lot and he is an excellent QB. I'm convinced that he knew the ball was soft. That beyond a reasonable doubt. Was he complicit in setting that pressure, I find it hard to believe he didn't.

Remember, it felt soft to the other play, so it felt soft to Tom. He didn't object, so IMO, is part of the infraction.

Was it worth 4 games. No. Did it effect the outcome of that one game. No. Was it the first time. Not likely at all.

If I were commissioner I would have fined the organization a moderate amount and Tom a small amount, issued a warning to all teams and then went to dinner with Kraft to explain.

Greg Peterson
09-05-2015, 3:04 PM
The judge did not rule on the merits of the case. Rather, he admonished the NFL for not properly notifying the players of the policy.
This ruling has nothing to do with the Pats innocence or guilt.
If one seeks justice, the US legal system, like most, is generally I'll equipped to produce it.

Jebediah Eckert
09-05-2015, 4:49 PM
The thing I've not seen discussed here is the way the deflation was discovered. A defensive player picked the ball up after a play and told an official that it was soft.

Now, Tom Brady has handled the football a lot and he is an excellent QB. I'm convinced that he knew the ball was soft. That beyond a reasonable doubt. Was he complicit in setting that pressure, I find it hard to believe he didn't.

Remember, it felt soft to the other play, so it felt soft to Tom. He didn't object, so IMO, is part of the infraction.



Ken, there is ZERO truth to that, zero. But again I am not going to change your mind, and that's fine, what's the difference. It's only football. I'm entertained by the thought processes, on both sides that go into it.

That was the original report (many were false) seven months ago. The player, D'Qwell Jackson, came out shortly after and said there was ZERO truth to that report. Yes he did intercept Brady, that is true. He kept the ball as a souvenir. Look it up if it interests you but that is a good example of people grabbing what their told to think and holding onto despite it being found not to be true, from the player himself. In Jackson's own words he said the ball felt fine, he wouldn't be able to detect a pound of pressure anyhow, and he doesn't even see how it would be an advantage. He gave it to the equipment manager to secure for him as a souvenir. They analysed it on their own. Google it, well documented, and publicly reported.

And even if that was true, because if you held onto it this long I doubt this will change anything, does that makes sense? Look up the average time Brady has the ball on a pass play, under 3 seconds, way less on a run play. That's under 3 seconds, a portion of that is adjusting grip, while 300 pounders are trying to level you. The referee, who's sole purpose is enforcing the rules, stands on the sideline holding the ball that is next to go into play for several minutes in his hands. If it was that easy wouldn't they pick it up if it was detectable? I know on Sportcenter they tried it and picked the deflated ball every time. Fine, but they had two to compare side by side. I'm sure I could take a 2 pound weight and a 2.5 pd weight in both hands like they did and tell the difference. I doubt if you can hand me one alone and I could tell. Never mind doing it under stress when your not even looking for it.

And Greg you are absolutely right the judge only ruled on the fairness of it, no doubt found unfair. At the end of the day do we want our federal judges spending time on why there is a pound of pressure missing from some footballs? Move on agreed.

People don't think rationally when it comes to your favorite sports team, myself included. I'm just fascinated by what people are told to believe by the media, and then feel comfortable enough to post it on a public forum.

- It was disproven that temperature could account for the pressure. Not true. There were two readings taken from two gauges. One fell within the ideal gas law one didn't. The wells report used the one that suited their argument. I'm not smart enough to know for sure what the Ideal Gas Law is but there are as many scientific reports that say it can as can't happen. You cold weather Creekers probably have had the tire pressure light warning come on during cold mornings. Doesn't exonerate anything but that at least a makes sense to me.

-Patriots fumble fewest in league at home, must be the deflated balls. Not true. I'm sure somebody will google it and find out they are below average. There is a difference between fumbles, and fumbles that result in a turnover. Once that ball is fumbled it's anyone's game who recovers it. The Patriots are very good at recovering fumbles, maybe they practice it more? If the deflated ball hits the turf wouldn't it be the same advantage to both teams? Then why are they better at it? That's why those stats are skewed. If interested look up raw fumbles, they are average. Most stats are from turnovers. If Blount fumbles it but gets it back, it's not counted in stats as a turnover, but he still fumbled it.

-D'Qwell Jackson immediately recognized the deflated ball, how could Brady not know, guilty. Not even open to debate, absolutely no truth, but hey whatever, I think I heard somebody on TV say it when I was at my brother in laws house, and the janitor at my kids school said it was true. Guilty.

Do I think there is no way Brady could possibly do anything wrong, no. Is he a good honest person? How the hell would I know, I don't know him, I just know he's good at football. Would it surprise me if he came out tomorrow and said enough is enough, I ordered the code red, I did it? Not at all.

We follow this more then most being in New England and being Patriots fans. I am most fascinated by how people react to it and go down whatever road suits their argument, wether it is the truth or not. I wonder what other aspects of life this parallels, like politics for instance, or is it just irrational sports fan thinking? I hope it's the latter.

The Colts fans on here have many good seasons to look forward to, Luck is the real deal for sure. They get the right players he could end up being the best ever. I also see Green Bay on here, poor Jordy Nelson, I hate seeing players get hurt, especially one with his character. Even teams I don't like I hate to see injuries. GB should have been in the last Super Bowl, definitely going to be in the hunt this year. With Nelson, would have been my odds on favorite.

John A langley
09-05-2015, 5:35 PM
If you're a diehard patriot fan you're not going to see the forest for the trees everybody else see a little smoke there must be a fire most people don't really care that's the problem with professional sports it's win at all costs.

Jebediah Eckert
09-05-2015, 6:00 PM
If you're a diehard patriot fan you're not going to see the forest for the trees everybody else see a little smoke there must be a fire most people don't really care that's the problem with professional sports it's win at all costs.

Agreed sports fans are irrational. I'm just not comfortable being told what to think. I see a little smoke as well, no doubt. But where did it come from? I'm not a Giants fan (for obvious reason, sigh) but I wouldn't be beating the drums against them based on the exact set of circumstance. Some people are just cool with having little to no argument, but think something happened, so punish punish punish. I doubt in everyone's private and professional lives they would see "a little smoke" and pick somebody to punish and be fine with it. Most, I hope, would put a little more effort into thinking about it. In this case it's not worth it, it's just football. Most people shouldn't care and I don't. The topic is just interesting and I happen to follow of it. It's pro sports, not kids, not high school, it's big business. Of course they are going to try to win however they can get away with. If your disappointed at guys who use steroids, etc your thinking like a child it's big business. It's all risk reward. If your comfortable with it, we all make our own choices and sometime suffer the consequences. I find it tough to be disappointed in somebody I never met, don't know, and only recognize the name because they are good at a sport.

Maybe its just me but if the Patriots were to play the Colts I would want Luck to be there. I wouldn't be rooting for an injury or a suspension. If he's not playing, what's the point? Although I do understanding losing gets old, I watched 30 years of it with the Patriots.

Maybe the Browns can make the playoffs this year, Cleveland could use it. I would like to see that. Even if they beat the Patriots I would root for them, after of course. I still respect the underdog. And if 10 years from now they were dominating the league, piping in crowd noise, heating the balls, using stick 'em etc I wouldn't turn tail. I still would remember where they came from, I won't want them punished because they got "too good."

roger wiegand
09-08-2015, 1:20 PM
The officials handled the balls on every single play. If they were altered in any significant way the officials would have noticed. That said, allowing anyone to play using something other than a "game ball" (bat, puck, wicket, or whatever) provided by the officials is just stupid and asking for trouble.

eugene thomas
09-08-2015, 2:30 PM
Well looks like more cheating storys brewing.... kind of think a history here.. and it's not about air this time..

Larry Frank
09-08-2015, 7:22 PM
ESPN SPYGATE Story today....Patriots have a rich history and too bad it is just not about winning but how they win.

Greg Peterson
09-09-2015, 4:48 PM
If you know the plays your opponent are running, is that cheating?

kevin nee
09-11-2015, 6:13 AM
Did anyone enjoy REVENGE-GATE?

roger wiegand
09-11-2015, 8:09 AM
Did anyone enjoy REVENGE-GATE?

You bet we did!

Paul McGaha
09-11-2015, 3:32 PM
WHERE IS ... ROGER?

Even in the crappy weather, it looked to me like the Patriots and their fans were having a very good time.

PHM

Wes Mitchell
09-11-2015, 3:53 PM
Add another "gate" to the list. Headset Gate has begun:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/11/us/pittsburgh-steelers-headset-issues/index.html

Glenn Clabo
09-11-2015, 7:19 PM
Add another "gate" to the list. Headset Gate has begun:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/11/us/pittsburgh-steelers-headset-issues/index.html

NFL spokesman on the headsets: "The Patriots had nothing to do with it."
6:06 PM - 11 Sep 2015 (https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/642459165298925568)

Chris Padilla
09-11-2015, 7:52 PM
'bout the only nice thing I have to say about the Patriots is that Gronk, last night, got me ~28 points for my fantasy football team. :D

Greg Peterson
09-12-2015, 2:45 PM
Vic Ketchum has been a writer in the NFL since the early 70's. Most of his career was spent writing for the Steelers. But has worked in Jacksonville and currently is in Green Bay.
He mentioned it several years ago in one of his Q&A columns how he and Jack Del Rio would have a friendly wager as to when the head sets would go out when ever they played in New England. Thursday nights radio failure is simply a continuation of communications problems that frequently occur in New England.

Just win baby, Just win.

Jebediah Eckert
09-12-2015, 4:03 PM
321282

Oh, and don't forget about shifting the defense after Big Ben started his cadence. I'm really not sure if it's a rule or not I will have to check, I just didn't like it. Poor Big Ben, great quarterback but really? Maybe if you or Tomlin spent every spare moment in the off season reviewing film they would have seen the shift, it's not new. Wouldn't have gotten by TB12 or BB.

Even if your headsets are sabotaged, how do you forget to cover the biggest guy on the field? They should be ashamed. Tomlin looked like he wanted to cry or fight somebody in the post game interview.

321283

Did Tomlin forget this? Was that cheating?

321284

Thats Tomlin trying to "trip" to save a touchdown, that's playing checkers, BB apparently is sabotaging headset, that's Chess.

And wow, what a horribly telegraphed double pass. Never mind risking the best receiver in the NFL. Man that Antonio Brown is incredible, what hands.

Stupid play call. Plain old stupid.

The Steelers are definitely going to have a good year, they were short two of their best. They are going to be trouble late season for sure, whoever has to face them.

There isn't a Steelers fan out there, that knows football, that doesn't know exactly why they lost. I'm just not sure why the coach and QB would belly ache like that after the game. Embarrassing in a tough sport.

Maybe Tomlin and Big Ben were busy doing "other things" during the Blitz-Burgh years, they made heir living shifting, moving, and stacking blitzes.

I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere it was against the rules, or the unwritten rules, that a QB can't complete 19 passes in a row in the pouring rain. It's like Monopoly when rolling doubles are great you get to roll again, but 3 in a row puts you in jail. Another deception by TB12, they must have figured out a new way to deflate the balls........

Dave Zellers
09-12-2015, 4:29 PM
... they must have figured out a new way to deflate the balls........
Well it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that while everyone was distracted pulling headset cords out of puddles, the Pats were using their wireless deflators on all the game balls.

Paul McGaha
09-13-2015, 8:17 AM
Well it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that while everyone was distracted pulling headset cords out of puddles, the Pats were using their wireless deflators on all the game balls.

Hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahah.

PHM

kevin nee
11-24-2015, 6:03 PM
What about the Inadvertent whistle GATE? Drive for 5!

Chris Padilla
12-01-2015, 8:08 PM
And now that 'threat' of a perfect season is in the rearview mirror.... :D

Jebediah Eckert
12-01-2015, 8:16 PM
You have probably been waiting since week 9 of last year, two coaches, two quarterbacks, and one more Super Bowl passed by to post that :D

Snow games and close games are fun for sure, not so much the end............

Ken Fitzgerald
12-01-2015, 10:30 PM
And now that 'threat' of a perfect season is in the rearview mirror.... :D

Don't tell that to the Carolina Panthers!

Mike Cozad
12-02-2015, 6:28 AM
Dang. I thought me might get to the end of the season with 2 undefeated cat teams... The Panthers and the Cheatahs... :D

Greg Peterson
12-03-2015, 12:30 AM
The Pats lost and the season didn't end. Bellichick will find some other loop hole in the rule book to exploit, and it will be just fine. Just win baby, win.

kevin nee
02-06-2017, 6:01 AM
kevin nee (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/member.php?51638-kevin-nee)
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/statusicon/user-online.pngMember



Join DateJul 2009LocationWest Boylston MassachusettsPosts401



When TOM BRADY is exonerated and wins his fith SUPER BOWL rogerr goodell's salary will be about 50 million and he will still be making WRONG judgements.

ANY ONE ELSE GOING TO ENJOY ROGER GOODELL HANDING TOM BRADY THE SUPER BOWL MVP TROPHY?