Waterlox re- re- re- redux

[David B. Morris]

It seems the questions never end about this product; now it's my turn. I'm using the original sealer/finish on a solid cherry table top about 24 x 36 inches. For the first coat I'm using a brush on/wait/wipe off technique as described in other threads and the FWW article of a few years ago. My problem: as I coated one side, the finish dripped over the edges and ran on to the face of the other side, like rainwater over a gutter (though far less of course). I quickly brushed this out, but when I went to finish that side, there were noticeable "ghosts" of my brushing out left beneath the first coat, even after wiping down.

I'm hoping this will even out as I apply more coats (which from now on will be wiped on) and as the cherry and the finish darken over time. But right now all my careful surface prep and meticulous scraping and sanding looks to be ruined by a high school shop mess up. Can any of you offer words of comfort or advice?

[Prashun Patel]

Can you post pix?
Is it too late to resand the offended surface?

What do the ghosts look like?

[David B. Morris]

Prashun, I'll not be able to post a pic until later today. The ghosts are cross-grain brush strokes from the earlier brushing out of the drips and have a slightly different tone than the rest of the panel. I could resand the thing if need be. Maybe that's the safest bet, but I wonder if that would be sufficient to get rid of the contrast, since the finish has penetrated the pores of the wood.

[Prashun Patel]

As long as there are no witness marks or physical ridges, I bet the tonal differences would melt away with subsequent coats and time.

Let's see a picture, though.

[Brent Ring]

I dont think that Waterlox is a "flood and wipe off" finish. That would be better done with shellac to start, or maybe a BLO.

[Bill McNiel]

David,
I typically use a technique for the initial application of Waterlox that could be described as "flood, wait for absorption and then wipe down the excess". It saves several coats (IMHO).

As far as the drips are concerned I fully agree with Prashun's view, the "drips" will disappear with successive coats (they have for me on several large table tops). BTW-I am assuming they are on the underside of the top so even less of a concern.

[David B. Morris]

Bill, thanks. Yes, it's a technique that many people seem to use. At any rate there was nothing inherent in the method that caused this problem, but the way I performed it. And no, the drips are actually on the show surface, dagnammit. But I am comforted by your words. I 'll try to get some pics up tonight.

[David B. Morris]

OK, here are some pictures. This is after one coat of Waterlox original/sealer finish, left on for about ten minutes, then wiped dry. It has cured for about 24 hours. The result has been fine except for the cross grain ghosting from where I brushed out the finish that dribbled on to that face.

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[Prashun Patel]

if it were me, i would sand the top with your highest grit again. Dont try to sand the finish off, just make it smooth. Make sure you cant feel a ridge where the ghost region starts. Then proceed as normal with the flood, wipe.

[David B. Morris]

Prashun, thanks. Just to be clear there are no ridges, no discernible changes in film thickness. The flaw is in tone and color, even after scuffing with 320. Would your advice remain the same? In any case I am thankful for it.

[Prashun Patel]

i might even wetsand it with a little vigor and then fully dry the surface before proceeding. The drying is important because waterlox can go on streaky on a surface with water or ms on it.

[David B. Morris]

i might even wetsand it with a little vigor and then fully dry the surface before proceeding. The drying is important because waterlox can go on streaky on a surface with water or ms on it.

So even knowing that ridges or witnesses are not involved you would still recommend resanding?

[Kent A Bathurst]

Varnish soaked into the wood pores/fibers, even though you cannot feel it. But - you can see it.

Don't scuff sand -- sand the entire top back to bare wood and start all over. Throw the shovel away, as it were - don't dig the hole any deeper by trying a half-way fix. Redo it, and be done with it.

As far as process goes, my approach has always been to varnish the top and edges first. As soon as I'm done brushing each coat, I use a clean rag to wipe the corner of the bottom edge - tightly wrapped around a finger, and go get whatever has accumulated. Will do it more than once, if needed, to come up with a clean rag.

ANything that somehow makes it on the bottom doesn't really matter anyway.

Then, I do the same thing when varnishing the bottom - except now the edges are finished, so I can just swipe the edges, and make sure it never gets near the "show" surface.

[David B. Morris]

I've learned from the best mistake you can make: the one you'll never make again. Kent, I am leaning in your direction, and am grateful for your advice. Prashun, please add your voice if it hasn't already been silenced by my [cuss word] questions. My thanks to you both.

[Prashun Patel]

Kent has the safe solution. My instinct is still that it is unlikely for a varnish to exhibit lap marks in the wood as if it were a dye.

[David B. Morris]

Kent, Prashun, Bill et al, thank you again for your advice. I will re-sand. No biggie, just one coat to sand off. The peace of mind will be more than worth it as I move forward on this interminable project (a two-drawer coffee table). I have a sequence of build pictures that I'll post when the thing is done--a couple dozen handcut M&T which were FAR easier to execute than getting this peevish tabletop right!

[Kent A Bathurst]

David: One other lesson I have learned - - just so you don't need to learn this one:

If you wipe down the sanded surface with MS, you need to be sure that the MS is fully gone. There is the potential for a problem. I had one big time - major train wreck. It could have been varnish applied too soon after MS wipe, or poor quality MS.

In response, now I wipe down with DNA instead, and quit buying BORG MS - Now I go to a S-W store and get their stuff: 100% MS/Paint thinner.

[David B. Morris]

I stopped digging. Here's the result after re-smoothing with a #4, sanding 150-400, then a first coat of WL. Better, I think. Ghosts are hard to bust. Thanks again for all your help. Too bad the cherry at my local yard sucked.
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[Kent A Bathurst]

Groovy.

When you have a chance, could you please take a giant step backwards, and show a shot of the entire top? I'm trying to get a feel for the proportions -- boat-shaped, apparently..........

[David B. Morris]

Kent, here it is a few weeks ago, after I cut the arcs, but before I planed the bevel, smoothed, etc. Boat shaped--I hadn't thought of that.
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