This is REPOST question

[Roy Sanders]

Remember I asked a question about a project where I have a graphic that is supposed to be cut out in a circle. I attempted to type an example. Someone suggested that I export it as a jpeg to place here. Thank you, here it is.

In the drawing the the crest is in the middle318505
I vectorized this graphic then drew a circle around it so the graphic is centered on the lower side and I put an 8 mm hole at top. The graphic was set at 40mmx40mm and the circle @ 60mmx60mm. I sent the graphic to engraving first, then the cut circle.
The engraving started fine and when finished the cut started on the R of the RANGER. Moving from left top to left bottom. In other words it started cutting the through the left side of the graphic, not as it looked on screen.

So I attempted to move the Circle as in the attached and that helped but it seems like I should not need to do something like that to get the cut to do what I need.

Any ideas on what setting or command I am missing/not setting that is causing this very consistent problem?

[Bill George]

So when your done with the file in X6 and Save, do you do a Export to send to your LaserDraw and Import?

Does it look ok in that program before you set the engraving and vector cutting?

Can you post the Corel draw file here?

[Bert Kemp]

post CDR file in a lower version like 9 or something more people can help that way

[Bert Kemp]

are you grouping your graphic before sending to laser? Or locking object .

[Ron Gosnell]

As Bert is saying, what happens when you send them at the same time instead of separately ?

Gozzie

[Ross Moshinsky]

The way I'd process this job is to take the image and process it using the gold method. In Laserdraw, I'd draw my vector circle. Then I'd import my processed image and place it where I wanted it. Depending on the substrate, I'd engrave then cut or cut then engrave.

Your issue is the machine sees your vectorized image and thinks it's supposed to rasters it and cut it. You need to change the settings so that it just rasters.

[Kev Williams]

I'm thinking if Roy is sending the images to the engraving software from Corel separately, the issue may be simply alignment differences between the two uploads. Looking at his off-center graphic, after the adjustment the 2 images are fairly close to being aligned at the bottom right corner. The extra distance the image is below the circle closely corresponds to how far it the image must move down to adjust for center due to the small hole.

-- in short, the images may be getting sent to the laser based on the lower right corner of each image rather than the center of each image. And Chinese lasers and software will do that!

Sending both images to the machine at the same time should fix the problem if that IS the problem... Just run the colors separately in 2 jobs. In this case, turn off the magenta and run the black raster, then vice versa to run the cut.

What I do to insure alignment is that I have a default table saved in corel that's 1300 x 900mm, the machine size. I have the hairline 30% black border around the table. This border ALWAYS gets sent to the machine's software, so I always have to turn off the 30% black color. Minor inconvenience at worst. Because of this, any text notes to myself, other graphics etc I always color 30% black, and send those to the machine too. They all just disappear from the screen once I turn off that color.

The reason for the perimeter border is, no matter where ANYthing is placed on the table in Corel, that's exactly where it will be placed in the laser software, and exactly where it will engrave in the machine. Nothing is ever out of place, because everything is based on the full-table border, not a random plate or image size.

>addendum< -- I have run into an issue, more than once, with my Triumph where switching from one color to another color caused an alignment shift. The 2 colors had 2 different speed/power settings. The shift occurred while the head moved from the one graphic to the other, the speed noticeably increased during the move, and the stepper motors didn't like it. The space between the moves was about 4", and the alignment shift was around 1/4". I experimented with moving the 2 images (just small triangles) so the move was left to right rather than right to left as before, and the shift still happened. For some reason the controller sent the speed change to the steppers early before they were stopped from the previous speed (or late?). I shot a video of this happening, it would do it every time I ran it. I now do test runs on most of my color-change jobs. So far it's only done it on one particular job.

This COULD be the problem here, but I'm thinking not because of the small area involved, and because he ran the jobs separately.

[Roy Sanders]

Well, this was very helpful. I will respond to all at once because I think all of you had similar and variation in your ideas at the same time.
ONE of the learning pieces is that I do not use Laserdrw. I open CorelLaser which opens CorelDraw. CorelLaser sits in the upper right corner, then when I am finished, in this case, I touch the engrave icon. The settings screen comes up and with very little change I 'start task' the window goes away and I click on the red cut line then touch the cutting icon. Again without making many changes, i do go from one to two repeats. Then I check the start box and the start task. The buffer sends it to the machine and engraving begins. it runs once, the the start new task window pops up, I touch start and the head does not move up to where the top of the circle is located, it moves a bit to the right and begins cutting through the left part of the graphic.

I did this like three different times, acrylic is not cheap. That is when on the fourth redo. I other words i copy paste to a new page. thinking some hidden code.
Then this time after the engraving I took a piece of scrap and started the laser cut. I touched pause and adjusted the graphic under the scrap - too much - removed the scrap and touched play. Well that is when I wish I would have allowed a full cut on the circle so I could adjust correctly.

More in a new note. I will post the CDR

[Roy Sanders]

318600Ok I am on my windows laptop. and this is how it looks in coreldraw.
I never lock my objects. I have had some difficulty understanding the combining versus grouping functions/ Ok so in the project I combined the two circles into one. I combined all of my Bezier lines to trace the trace into the graphic. I grouped the graphic and the cut circle and sent it through the CorelLaser software.

Another discovery when I open laserdrw, it is all in Chinese. so that won't help. don't know why the manufacturer sent that.

Which do you recommend, importing into laserdrw or exporting to laserdrw? Then what build the cutting vector around the graphic and make sure the graphic gets set to raster, then save and export back to CorelDraw to go to the laser or go to the laser via laserdrw. I just hadn't thought that the laserdrw was necessary;

for some reason I cannot get this particular window to get the CDR. So, I will sign this and go back to the MAC and see if I can import the CDR from a flash drive.



Roy

[Bert Kemp]

save your design in corel as a dxf then import the dxf to the laser.

CDR file save the CDR to your desktop then try to upload it here as a x5 or lower version

adding things to a design and group as you go.you do this so things in the design don't get moved around as you add other things or center things. If you have 2 or 3 things in a circle and then try to center something else with out grouping the first things ,then all will mover .

[walter hofmann]

hi there
I can not open the corel file because I got X5 but why don't you group all and send it to the laser that's how I do it but I got lasercad not lasercut.
for the acrylic I get left over sometimes 1/4 sheet from my local ace hardware store for free . ones in whyle I give them some test sample for it and they hold all the left over for me.
maybe this helps
greetings
waltfl

[Bert Kemp]

mANY OF US HERE CAN'T OPEN X6 PLEAS SAVE THE FILE IN A LOWER VERSION AND UPLOAD THAT FOR US TO LOOK AT
Roy when you go to save a file look at the bottom of the sceeen someplace you'll see a box marked version clic the arrow and the box will open showing you different versions to save it in save in version 9 318617


save your design in corel as a dxf then import the dxf to the laser.

CDR file save the CDR to your desktop then try to upload it here as a x5 or lower version

adding things to a design and group as you go.you do this so things in the design don't get moved around as you add other things or center things. If you have 2 or 3 things in a circle and then try to center something else with out grouping the first things ,then all will mover .

[Chuck Stone]

I wonder if there's an 'offset' stored somewhere in your settings?

[Kev Williams]

The settings screen comes up and with very little change I 'start task' the window goes away and I click on the red cut line then touch the cutting icon. Again without making many changes, i do go from one to two repeats. Then I check the start box and the start task. The buffer sends it to the machine and engraving begins. it runs once, the the start new task window pops up, I touch start and the head does not move up to where the top of the circle is located, it moves a bit to the right and begins cutting through the left part of the graphic

As I read this, I can't tell in your explanation at what points your engraving shifted, or didn't shift?

That said, this sentence " I touch start and the head does not move up to where the top of the circle is located, it moves a bit to the right" may be evidence of what I was trying to explain above. Lets try this:

I have no idea if this is how you're doing this, as an example:
Lets say you're starting with a 1.5 x 1.5" layout for your 1.5" diameter part. This is my layout of that in Corel. Note I've guidelined the borders of the graphics...

http://www.engraver1.com/erase2/offiss1.jpg


Now, this is what would happen in my machine: I'd send this to the laser software (mine is PHCad), and now it will be injected onto the screen in the software, and my screen represents 1300x900mm, the entire table. From there I position the part where I want it to engrave.

Now, if I don't do this right, what will happen if I send the graphic ONLY to the machine, this offset may happen: The software now aligns the new graphic in the same corner as the other graphic.
Notice how this resembles your picture above...


http://www.engraver1.com/erase2/offiss2.jpg

This is why I do a full-size layout, because these shifts can't happen!

HOWEVER, I just thought of what may be part of your problem:

In your laser software, if it's like mine and it should be, you'll have a choice of HOW your image is positioned relative to the X-Y coordinates.

Here's a screenshot of mine, the arrow is pointing to my selection, note the center dot is black- this means my X-Y coordinates are based on the center:

http://www.engraver1.com/erase2/offiss3.jpg


If I click on that icon, I get this, and I just have to click on whichever box I want if I want to change the starting point:

http://www.engraver1.com/erase2/offiss4.jpg



If you find this, and find your selection is anything but center, change it and try it!

HOWEVER, if it works, I'm betting it will only work half-way because the second image will now shift UPWARD instead of up-left as before, because the vertical centers of the images are different...

Try this simple fix: In this layout I've chosen a 2 x 2" plate size, circle is 1.5" diameter. I've drawn a 1.75" square box around it, and outlined it 20% black. Now, whenever you send any or all of your graphics to the laser software, ALWAYS include the box. Just don't engrave it! Turn the color off, or whatever it takes. But leave it in the overall graphic. Doing this, the software will always choose the box as the starting point, even though it won't be engraved. And whatever's IN the box can't change position. Try it! :)

http://www.engraver1.com/erase2/offiss5.jpg

[Bert Kemp]

In corel draw and size your circle. The put your graphic in the circle , select the whole thing and hit ctr c.... ctr E this will center the image in the circle . now select the image only and use the down arrow to lower the image to were you want it.
now select the whole thing again and group them. Now place your hole into the circle at the approx place you want it, select the whole thing again and hit ctr c and that will center the hole left and right in the circle.

then send to laser and it should work.

[Roy Sanders]

Wow Kev

The screen shot that showed what happens is exactly what happened. Will study your solution and give it whirl. I bet the fix works.

BTW Control C is copy isn't it?

Thank you for your help. I will let you know, this weekend. Not tonight though tonight is Date Night with my wife of 34 years. We haven't missed many. Redefined the definition a few times. This works for us.

Roy

[Roy Sanders]

I will save this to an older x suite and repost. Maybe you will find a better way to get the graphic rastered. I inverted the original

Roy

[Ron Gosnell]

Great explanation Kev.

I imagine you could make the box the size of the table and leave it as a template
for all future work. Everything would align to the box. You are a genius.

Gozzie

[Kev Williams]

Ron, that's exactly it- but I'm hardly a genius!

If I may further elaborate (if not, stop reading! ;) )---

First pic is a screen shot of my basic Triumph layout in Corel. The job is one of the ski-lift operator panels I build. (the main reason I bought this machine is because I build a lot of these, and they're too big for the LS900)
Note the 30% gray border. Note the guidelines- I have several shims made from various materials that act as my common stops in the machine. The guidelines are the edges of the shims, depending on their arrangement. This setup changes from time to time, this is my current one.

These panels have blind Pem studs I have to insert in the back, and I have to machine bosses for them. So the panels are machined upside-down on my IS7000. This means face-up, the common 0/0 corner is the top RIGHT corner of the panel. So I don't have to adjust for every next panel because one panel may be .02" different than the next, the top-right 0/0 is constant to all the panels I make. Once one panel is zeroed in, all the next ones will be too...

http://www.engraver1.com/erase2/traa.jpg


Notice all the holes and other non-text/graphic items I've also outlined as 30% black.

2nd pic below, is this layout exported to the PHCad laser software:

http://www.engraver1.com/erase2/trab.jpg


The job is placed exactly in the same postion as it was in Corel. The only way anything can move is if I move it myself.
Notice the "layer" area, only 3 colors imported, the gray, the black that will raster and the red that will vector.

Below is the same screen, with the gray layer un-checked...


http://www.engraver1.com/erase2/trac.jpg


---So now, all of the holes and plate border are still there, they're just invisible and removed from the editing and engraving process. Now I just run the job,
and setup the next panel in Corel to do after this one is done. I never have to wonder where anything is located once I know where my 0/0 starting point
is in the laser. As long as it's correct in Corel, it'll be correct in the machine...

[Ron Gosnell]

Thank you Kev for writing such a detailed and informative article. I added this to my favorites.
I just learned a new bag of tricks. Thank you

Gozzie

[Kev Williams]

I'll end this with "there's probably a way to fix this problem in the laser software", like in this pic.

These settings, 'machine zero position' and 'laser head relative position' likely will take care of alignment issues, as long as you figure out what does what!
But as for me, when I got this machine, I needed to use it badly, and the learning curve for backlash adjustments, power & speed settings and all that
were eating up enough of my time! I just came up with a workaround that works for me...

I've noticed most Chinese laser software is somewhat similar, I'm sure there are setting preference choices like
these in all of them...

http://www.engraver1.com/erase2/trad.jpg

[Roy Sanders]

Wow, again.

I am happy that I asked the question. Not only did I get the answer that helped me, it seems others benefited too. Thank you all who weighed in. Kev, your help was very enlightening and though Bert and others had the point and click answers, yours showed how work around can help