Would You Live On The Water And NOT Have a Boat?

[Julie Moriarty]

If you owned a house near the ocean (not on the ocean) with a dock or seawall deep enough to dock a boat with access to the ocean, would you be likely to own a boat or would the view justify the premium price you'd pay for owning a property like that? Premium price being what you paid for the house, property taxes and additional flood insurance you may need.

[Mike Henderson]

"A boat is a hole in the water that you pour money into."

"There are two happy days in the life of a boat owner: The day you buy it and the day you sell it."

And, if you do buy a boat, make sure it's what you want to do and that you'll use it often. It's really expensive to have a boat and just have it tied up to the dock.

Mike

[Julie Moriarty]

Mike, does that mean you'd buy the property, with it's premium price, or buy something with just as nice a house that had no dock behind it, for a lot less?

[Ole Anderson]

I am a boating person and have always been, got a ski boat in MI and a 19' center console in FL (ironically the same size and configuration down to the single Yamaha that the two 14 year olds were in when lost). So, yea, I would definitely have a boat. But it is a personal thing, lots of folks buy on the water just to have a view. I take that back, as I look around our lake (450 riparians), many folks have multiple watercraft, very few have none. And there is a difference, psychologically, between just having a water view and actually calling that waterfront yours, boat or not.

In FL we stay in our RV for 3 months with a lot and dock on a canal to the intercoastal. We can be in the Gulf in 20 minutes. We would buy (it is a condo) but the price is a little steep, I figured the 20 x 60 lots are going for in excess of 5 mill per acre.

[Bruce Page]

Julie, only you can really answer that question. My father had 3 different sail boats when I was growing up, the last one being an Islander 36'. One of his favorite sayings was "BOAT, Bring On Another Thousand". I love the ocean and I'd love to live near it again. I have no desire to own a boat.

[James Tibbetts]

Julie I'm assuming were talking about something like the canals in a lot of Florida communities? If you don't have/want a boat, then to me the water is a detriment. For the reasons you listed and for the upkeep on your bulk heading/seawall. The view won't change and I would think the novelty would wear off fairly soon. My vote would be to buy the other house for less money and enjoy it full time. Go look at the water whenever you feel like it.

[Randy Red Bemont]

I'm not a boat person at all. So I would buy the house on the water for the view only, not the dock. But I would fish from it.

Red

[Rick Potter]

In my experience boat people are a little like car people, motorcycle people and plane people. You either are one, which means a rabid lover, or you are not. Lots of people are dilatant's, liking to test the waters, so to speak, then moving on. Then, there are the 'real' enthusiasts. Have you been living, breathing, studying catalogs, places to visit with docks, etc?

I am a car guy. Since I got my first Hot Rod mag at age 13, I have saved hundreds of magazines, owned well over a hundred cars of all types, and still live and breathe cars. Right now at age 72, I own 9 cars, from a pair of modern plug in electrics, to my F250 with 5th wheel trailer, to my '56 Ford, '48 Jeepster, and '22 Model T hot rods.

My son is a plane guy, now owns a 1940 Fairchild, has a hanger and the gift shop at the local airport, and is almost licensed to fly people in a WWII Navy T-6, as well as a huge Anotov biplane. All done while he runs his trucking business, burning the candle at both ends.

I have a friend who is a boat (fisherman) guy. He has an old Glasspar cabin cruiser that he fishes with as often as possible. He will go out on a lake alone and fish from daylight till dark, trolling and jigging 100 times with the left arm, then 100 times with the right arm, with only a 30 minute break for lunch. He is often the first one to go to a lake in Idaho during the thaw. When he gets there, other boats will be lined up to launch after he launches and breaks the ice for them.

So, what you need to ask yourself is just how involved you want to get in boating. Own with the pride, as well as the work of owning, or maybe rent one when you feel the need.

[Tim Offutt]

I have two homes, one on the water and one not and I have three boats. Two at the lake home and one in Indiana. At the lake home we are 35 feet from the water and the view is great but I couldn't imagine not having the boats. Yesterday I did nothing all day, took the pontoon out to the middle of lake and drifted around for eight hours while I read and surfed the web. Of course I could have done the same thing on shore but it wouldn't of been as nice.

None of our boats are ski boats, just two fishing boats and a pontoon. I have never experienced the big boat expenses everyone talks about. I winterize them myself which entails pretty much nothing but oil and lower unit lube change. I also store them in my own building so no costs there. We probably spend less than $300 yearly on fuel for all three. But then again we don't travel far and we pretty much just cruise along at a leisurely pace.

I do know people who regularly spend big money repairing their boats, busted props and lower units, engine problems, storage fees, etc. But they also run the heck out of them and treat them like they are a rental.

[Jim Creech]

There are those of us that are compelled to own a boat regardless of house/home location. It's in our blood and anything else simply won't do!

[Pat Barry]

My sister in law had a nice house, on the beach, on the south end of Daytona Beach. There was no need for a boat. If you needed a boat for something you could rent one. On the other hand, we have a cabin at a norther Minnesota lake. I couldn't enjoy that place fully without fishing boat or a pontoon. So, the thing is, how important is the boat to you?

[Phil Thien]

If I'm on the water, I'm a boat owner.

[Mike Henderson]

Mike, does that mean you'd buy the property, with it's premium price, or buy something with just as nice a house that had no dock behind it, for a lot less?
I'd not buy the house on the water. But I'm no boater so the answer is whether you like to boat or not.

Just another issue, Florida gets hurricanes every now and then and they can drive water up those canals and flood the houses. I lived in Florida around Tampa/ St Petersburg for 17 years. Didn't have a hurricane during that time. Note, also, that sea levels are rising.

Mike

[Phil Thien]

I'd not buy the house on the water. But I'm no boater so the answer is whether you like to boat or not.

Just another issue, Florida gets hurricanes every now and then and they can drive water up those canals and flood the houses. I lived in Florida around Tampa/ St Petersburg for 17 years. Didn't have a hurricane during that time. Note, also, that sea levels are rising.

Mike

Sounds like a good argument for getting a boat.

[John Stankus]

There are those of us that are compelled to own a boat regardless of house/home location. It's in our blood and anything else simply won't do!


No opinion...but you could always sublet the boat slip to someone who has a boat but lives away from the water.

[Wade Lippman]

I presume we are talking about power boats.

This is the view from my shop in the basement.
318470
I wouldn't have a power boat if you gave it to me. Maintenance, insurance, gas; all to go back and forth nowhere in particular. Each of my neighbors own a large boat and 2 jet skis. I doubt either of them use their gear for more than 10 hours a year.

I have 3 kayaks, a sailboat, and a rowing shell; all purchased for less than $2,000, with no maintenance, insurance or gas. We use them about 500 hours a year. You do the math.

[Art Mann]

The math says you are using your boats 63 full days every year. That is pretty amazing. I have been a hard core boater and had a house and boat on a large lake for 10 years and I never put that many hours on any of my boats in one year. I live in a climate where you can boat from March to November most years.

[Art Mann]

If you owned a house near the ocean (not on the ocean) with a dock or seawall deep enough to dock a boat with access to the ocean, would you be likely to own a boat or would the view justify the premium price you'd pay for owning a property like that? Premium price being what you paid for the house, property taxes and additional flood insurance you may need.


In your position, I wouldn't pay extra for a spot on a canal with access to the ocean unless I was planning to get some value out of it. I don't think the view, if it is like what I have seen on the narrow canals in Florida, is all that spectacular. I'm not a fisherman so I wouldn't pay extra for that reason either. The only reason I could see for buying that type of property is if you plan to own a boat. I am a boat person and it would be worth it to me for that reason alone. As someone already said, it has to be a way of life to justify it.

[Pat Barry]

The math says you are using your boats 63 full days every year. That is pretty amazing. I have been a hard core boater and had a house and boat on a large lake for 10 years and I never put that many hours on any of my boats in one year. I live in a climate where you can boat from March to November most years.


Must have some pretty fair muscle development with all that rowing / paddling :)

[Wade Lippman]

The math says you are using your boats 63 full days every year. That is pretty amazing. I have been a hard core boater and had a house and boat on a large lake for 10 years and I never put that many hours on any of my boats in one year. I live in a climate where you can boat from March to November most years.

I average about 10 hours a week on the water, plus what my wife and two sons do. Sounds like 500 hours to me. 10 hours a week isn't all that much; I spend 5 hours a week walking my dog. Yeah, she loves to swim, but can't possibly keep up with my kayak so I can't combine the two.

Admittedly, years the lake freezes over I probably do something less.

[Mike Henderson]

Sounds like a good argument for getting a boat.
Or moving to higher ground. If sea levels rise, it's going to be a mess with people losing their property to the sea. To the best of my knowledge, there's no insurance for that. It's considered an act of god.

And if the house is still habitable but at higher chance of flood during storms - and chance of being flooded if sea levels continue to rise - you're going to have a very hard time selling.

Mike

[Larry Edgerton]

Julie, you are it seems a pretty busy type? I am as well, and when I did have a house on the lake I seldom had time to take it out, because I was so busy with other things. I sold the house with the boat.;)

Last year I bought a fishing boat with the intention of not working so much. It has not been in the water in the year I have owned it, so it must not be important to me.

Now I did at one point have a 28' Nimble Nomad Trawler, kind of a cabin on the water that could take whatever the big lakes could dish out, and I did use that for overnight trips, mostly read books though. With a top speed of 11 knots there was no sense being in a hurry.

Tough and important question, but its kind of like asking "Do I like broccoli?" Only you can answer it.

[Jerome Stanek]

I average about 10 hours a week on the water, plus what my wife and two sons do. Sounds like 500 hours to me. 10 hours a week isn't all that much; I spend 5 hours a week walking my dog. Yeah, she loves to swim, but can't possibly keep up with my kayak so I can't combine the two.

Admittedly, years the lake freezes over I probably do something less.

Upstate NY in the winter in a boat

[Von Bickley]

A second home, a boat and a mistress, are three things that require time and money. I don't have any need for a boat.

[Tom M King]

We live on the water, and have owned all sorts of boats, but for some years now, I mostly sail other people's boats. Want one moved up or down the coast, send me a credit card. Avatar is panorama of a lifetime sunset in 2006 off the end of our point. It's kind of distorted because it's actually a 180 degree view. About the only thing we sail these days is a Hobie 21 left over from when we raced in the Prosail series in the late '80s. Some of my friends love working on their boats. I'm glad to help them learn how to sail it better when they are done working on it.

[Ted Calver]

If I had the money for a home on the water in Florida with ocean access, you can bet there would be something at my dock that could get me offshore for some of the great fishing available there.

[Julie Moriarty]

The question I posed came from seeing so many houses on ocean access canals that had no boat at their dock/seawall. I'd guess anywhere between 1/2 to 2/3 of the houses had no boat. Anyone who has ever been to a marina knows boats sit in their slip or at their mooring most of the time, so you can't say the boats were probably out on the water when they took the satellite picture. Maybe 5% were, tops. Those home owners wanted a home on the water and paid a premium price for that. From what I've seen, that premium could be 25% or more.

The view isn't all that great. Some look at mangroves. Most look at the house on the other side of the canal. It's not like living on the ocean or a lake, where you get changing sea states, sunrises and sunsets, and an expansive view. It's the same view all the time and the water is usually brown or green. If you don't own a boat, why pay the premium price? I don't get it.

Now if some of those homeowners could understand the insanity of owning one of these homes without owning a boat, maybe they might want to sell it...

to me. ;)

[Pat Barry]

The question I posed came from seeing so many houses on ocean access canals that had no boat at their dock/seawall. I'd guess anywhere between 1/2 to 2/3 of the houses had no boat. Anyone who has ever been to a marina knows boats sit in their slip or at their mooring most of the time, so you can't say the boats were probably out on the water when they took the satellite picture. Maybe 5% were, tops. Those home owners wanted a home on the water and paid a premium price for that. From what I've seen, that premium could be 25% or more.

The view isn't all that great. Some look at mangroves. Most look at the house on the other side of the canal. It's not like living on the ocean or a lake, where you get changing sea states, sunrises and sunsets, and an expansive view. It's the same view all the time and the water is usually brown or green. If you don't own a boat, why pay the premium price? I don't get it.

Now if some of those homeowners could understand the insanity of owning one of these homes without owning a boat, maybe they might want to sell it...

to me. ;)


So you are not asking for help in making a decision, just wondering out loud?? It sounded like you were looking for advice.

[Phil Thien]

A second home, a boat and a mistress, are three things that require time and money. I don't have any need for a boat.

I see what you did there.

[Wade Lippman]

Upstate NY in the winter in a boat
Many days I go skiing in the morning and kayaking in the afternoon.
I gather you don't like cold weather.

[Mike Henderson]

The question I posed came from seeing so many houses on ocean access canals that had no boat at their dock/seawall. I'd guess anywhere between 1/2 to 2/3 of the houses had no boat. Anyone who has ever been to a marina knows boats sit in their slip or at their mooring most of the time, so you can't say the boats were probably out on the water when they took the satellite picture. Maybe 5% were, tops. Those home owners wanted a home on the water and paid a premium price for that. From what I've seen, that premium could be 25% or more.

The view isn't all that great. Some look at mangroves. Most look at the house on the other side of the canal. It's not like living on the ocean or a lake, where you get changing sea states, sunrises and sunsets, and an expansive view. It's the same view all the time and the water is usually brown or green. If you don't own a boat, why pay the premium price? I don't get it.

Now if some of those homeowners could understand the insanity of owning one of these homes without owning a boat, maybe they might want to sell it...

to me. ;)
Another issue with some of those canals - They can be improperly designed so that they don't flush out as the tide comes in and goes out and the water can get somewhat foul (caused by a number of things but fertilizer runoff is one cause. It causes algae growth and that removes the oxygen, then you get dead fish. I'm sure there are other causes). This is mostly true for dead end canals. It's likely that any canals built in the last 30 years or so are properly designed, but many of those places were put in during the 50's when regulations were not as stringent. If you think you might want a house on a canal, talk to the neighbors and see what their experience is with the canal.

You may have to pay a share to have the canal dredged every so many years because they tend to silt up, especially dead end canals.

Mike

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Julie, I think you know my answer!!! I would own a big boat with a small house next to it. We are well on track saving for our world cruiser.

When I came to the islands I bought a 14' RIB with a 70hp Tohatsu. (I believe in slightly overpowering) That boat was used DAILY. Well, nightly on weekdays and daily on weekends. I would go to St. John every night after work and cruise around the island on weekends. I ran it ragged. Don't listen to the naysayers. You NEED a boat.

Listen, Julie... You hear that? It's the call of the sea.

[Tom M King]

Yeah, some kind of boat. You have to be able to get around.

Malcolm, when I was a teenager, I had an inboard ski boat. One of my ski buddy's family had some off brand tri-hull design that was max rated for 45 hp. We built a ski tow pylon for it that mounted by the top outboard bolts. He took the windshield off so he could see better how to drive. We had several slalom courses around the lake, and he put an 85 Johnson on it, but it wouldn't pull us 36 mph through the slalom course without slowing down a lot when we cut, so he put a 125 on it. That worked. If you were driving it by yourself about 30 mph and floored it (hand throttle of course) the whole boat would jump out of the water, the backend would walk sideways a little on the prop, sit down, and pin you back in the seat. With the prop he had on it, top speed was about 50 mph. My boat had a 390 Ford Police Interceptor in it, and my best friend had an SK with a 426. Hot boats later turned to racing sailboats for me, but I can still drive anything that floats, and some things that don't (sailboards). I do still like horsepower though.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Yeah, some kind of boat. You have to be able to get around.

Malcolm, when I was a teenager, I had an inboard ski boat. One of my ski buddy's family had some off brand tri-hull design that was max rated for 45 hp. We built a ski tow pylon for it that mounted by the top outboard bolts. He took the windshield off so he could see better how to drive. We had several slalom courses around the lake, and he put an 85 Johnson on it, but it wouldn't pull us 36 mph through the slalom course without slowing down a lot when we cut, so he put a 125 on it. That worked. If you were driving it by yourself about 30 mph and floored it (hand throttle of course) the whole boat would jump out of the water, the backend would walk sideways a little on the prop, sit down, and pin you back in the seat. With the prop he had on it, top speed was about 50 mph. My boat had a 390 Ford Police Interceptor in it, and my best friend had an SK with a 426. Hot boats later turned to racing sailboats for me, but I can still drive anything that floats, and some things that don't (sailboards). I do still like horsepower though.

I love it! My 14' RIB would hit about 45 statute mph but would do so in any seas. These guys with the go-fast boats would be out with their harem of girls in 8 foot seas pounding head-on into the waves. I would zip past them zig-zagging along the crests and they would be so upset that a 14' inflatable just passed them.

My my grandfather built a wood boat in the 20's and put a Hispana Suissa (sp?) V12 in it. Nobody could beat him. He finally started giving the trophy in the anual boat races to the guy in second and said he didn't want to be a glory hog and just wanted to go fast. Yep, I got his genes for sure. That said, I am more of a sailor than power boater.

[Curt Harms]

........... maybe rent one when you feel the need.


'twas a wise man who observed "If it flies, floats or fools around, rent it".;)

[Al Launier]

If you owned a house near the ocean (not on the ocean) with a dock or seawall deep enough to dock a boat with access to the ocean, would you be likely to own a boat or would the view justify the premium price you'd pay for owning a property like that? Premium price being what you paid for the house, property taxes and additional flood insurance you may need.

In my opinion one should enjoy the benefits your home affords. However, judging from the wording of your question, it appears to me that you are not currently a boat owner and are wondering whether it's "appropriate" to own a home with docking space based on what others do, i.e. own a boat because other home owners in the area do. Frankly, I think you should consider the pros/cons of each alternative: buy a boat; don't buy a boat; don't buy the house at a premium price if you don't intend to use the boat frequently.

Further, if you don't have any actual boating experience, you should consider the situations you could run into, especially at sea. Boating is not just about jumping in a boat & having fun. There is much to consider about boat handling especially at/around docks, seamanship, safety, reading the weather, navigation, knowing & understanding boating regulations - Coast Guard & local rules of the road, insurance, property & personal liabilities, winter storage, cost of operation, responsibilities for onboard passengers, etc., etc.

I'm not trying to scare you from purchasing a boat, they do provide a lot of enjoyment, but there is much to consider. I've owned 6 six boats over the past 60 years and each provided enjoyment within the limits of their design & capabilities. However, they all have their limitations. Consider your needs & application to get the best use & enjoyment from a boat. Frankly, if you do decide to get a boat that is consistent with those others have and which "fits" you docking space, you might consider taking a boating course and getting some experience, first with a smaller boat to get a preliminary feel and then graduating to larger boats before deciding on which boat to purchase. Renting boats can provide this experience.

Best of luck with your decision.

[Julie Moriarty]

So you are not asking for help in making a decision, just wondering out loud?? It sounded like you were looking for advice.

No, not at all. I was just curious how many here would pay a premium for a house on a canal if they never intended to own a boat.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me because the view isn't all that great. It can even be downright ugly. And if across the canal is a mangrove swamp, you have a no-see-um factory in your back yard. If you like a water view, make it an ocean or lake, not a canal that was created solely for boat travel and docking.

If I wanted a view, I'd want something visually appealing. But, from what I've seen, at least half of the homeowners in the canal communities we've house-hunted in don't own boats. Yet they paid a lot more for their home and pay taxes and insurance annually that is considerably more than non-canal homes. The only way to make that ugly canal beautiful is to see a boat docked on it. The beauty being your ability to escape the rat race every once in a while. :)

[Julie Moriarty]

Julie, I think you know my answer!!! I would own a big boat with a small house next to it. We are well on track saving for our world cruiser.

When I came to the islands I bought a 14' RIB with a 70hp Tohatsu. (I believe in slightly overpowering) That boat was used DAILY. Well, nightly on weekdays and daily on weekends. I would go to St. John every night after work and cruise around the island on weekends. I ran it ragged. Don't listen to the naysayers. You NEED a boat.

Listen, Julie... You hear that? It's the call of the sea.

Malcolm, while we can't afford a big boat and a small house, we are looking for a small house we can dock our small to medium size sailboat on (not yet purchased). The cost of slip fees vs. the additional cost of a house on a canal is about break-even. And I know me. I'm more likely to get a lot of use out of the boat if I see it all the time than if it's sitting in a slip at a marina. And the boat will be better maintained if it's in the back yard.

Someone here said there are some of us who are one with a boat. One of those inexplicable curiosities is that we find great satisfaction, and even peace, in doing something others have no interest in doing. For me, it's sailing. The first time I stepped aboard a sailboat I became one with it. I know people who become white-knuckled the moment a sailboat heels. Not me. It's a rush!

[Pat Barry]

Malcolm, while we can't afford a big boat and a small house, we are looking for a small house we can dock our small to medium size sailboat on (not yet purchased). The cost of slip fees vs. the additional cost of a house on a canal is about break-even. And I know me. I'm more likely to get a lot of use out of the boat if I see it all the time than if it's sitting in a slip at a marina. And the boat will be better maintained if it's in the back yard.

Someone here said there are some of us who are one with a boat. One of those inexplicable curiosities is that we find great satisfaction, and even peace, in doing something others have no interest in doing. For me, it's sailing. The first time I stepped aboard a sailboat I became one with it. I know people who become white-knuckled the moment a sailboat heels. Not me. It's a rush!


Ocean property is already unaffordable to people like us. The canal can be a good alternative. You don't get the ocean breeze or the ocean view, but you get access. The downside is also that if you are not on the ocean, the Florida summers can be overtly humid and intolerable. The closer you are to the ocean the better because you really need the breeze. Many folks probably bought the canal side houses just get some some relief from the heat and humidity but that may not turned out as well as they hoped.

[Chuck Saunders]

Many days I go skiing in the morning and kayaking in the afternoon.
I gather you don't like cold weather.
I'll remember that if you invite me to go rowing one morning

as the joke goes
The galley master comes in and says" I've got good news and bad news, Good news Captain is doubling your ration of grog, bad news he wants to go skiing tomorrow"

[roger wiegand]

As a pretty avid birder I'd absolutely own a waterfront property, even better if it were a stream holding trout! Near zero interest in power boats, though I have occasionally given thought to putting a trolling motor on my canoe to help out with flats fishing. I do own two kayaks and a canoe and wouldn't think about getting rid of them if I had a place closer to the water. I see a boat as a tool that helps me get closer to the wildlife; loud motors and big wakes accomplish the opposite.

[Wade Lippman]

As a pretty avid birder I'd absolutely own a waterfront property, even better if it were a stream holding trout! Near zero interest in power boats, though I have occasionally given thought to putting a trolling motor on my canoe to help out with flats fishing. I do own two kayaks and a canoe and wouldn't think about getting rid of them if I had a place closer to the water. I see a boat as a tool that helps me get closer to the wildlife; loud motors and big wakes accomplish the opposite.

You might appreciate these photos from my deck last winter.
318515318516

[Rick Potter]

OK, short answer.

Ocean or lake front...........yes.

Canal...............................no.

[Brian Elfert]

Does it count if you lived directly across the street from a lake and didn't own a boat? There was even a park across the street so no houses to block your view. The boat launch was 150 feet or so from my driveway.

I just have no desire to ever own a boat. Even though I was across from the lake I would have either had to launch a boat every time I wanted to use it, or I would have had to find someone who lived on the lake that wanted to rent dock space.

[Shawn Pixley]

Okay, I live on the ocean (but no dock or slip) and no longer own a boat. I had a fishing vessel that I used a lot (1 to 2 times per week at a minimum 40 mile run) but work got in the way and I wasn't using it as much as I should (or wanted to). I sold it. Not the happiest day of my life.

To Julie's question, I would live by the big blue and not own a boat. If I was retired, I might get another one. Big enough to tackle 100 mile plus runs and small enough to single hand. If I want to sail, I crew or borrow someone else's boat. LOML is not a water girl.

[Ole Anderson]

Ocean front you are not likely parking your boat in front of your house. You own there for the view and hopefully the beach. Either you go canal or estuary or bay or you rent a dry or wet slip or trailer if boating is your thing.

[Wade Lippman]

Ocean front you are not likely parking your boat in front of your house. You own there for the view and hopefully the beach. Either you go canal or estuary or bay or you rent a dry or wet slip or trailer if boating is your thing.

Maybe oceans are different than lakes, but 95% of my neighbors have a dock and 90% have at least one boat.

[Shawn Pixley]

In my neighborhood, we are on the beach side (open ocean), so no pier / dock. The "back side" of the neighborhood is on the harbor / canal side. The houses there all have seawalls and docks. Most could slip up to say a 30' boat. Larger boats would need cathederal masts to make it under the bridge. Being on the salt, there is more maintenance than fresh water. My friends trade slippage costs for dock and seawall maintenance. The other challenge is stray current from other's boats and their improperly grounded boats with a battery tender. Corrosion is a challenge, you can go through a lot of zinc.

The owners of the local Woodcraft live on their sail boat (in a slip but not behind their house). A bit of irony there.

i say if you would be on the water a lot, do it. What kills me is seeing all the boats slipped and never going out.

[Ole Anderson]

Maybe oceans are different than lakes, but 95% of my neighbors have a dock and 90% have at least one boat.

Oceans are MUCH different from lakes. There are some on the lee side of the great lakes with docks and hoists, but on the windward side where waves can get really big, not so much. Ocean front has the potential for very big waves, not so good for docks and hoists. Harbors are located or designed to mitigate the big waves to allow docks. Some harbors even have beaches, but not always a great view.

Straying from Julie's question, sorry. Simple answer, you don't buy bulkheaded canal front for the view. On the other hand, here is the view down the canal toward a 250 acre lake from my deck in Michigan.

[Chris Parks]

Malcolm, while we can't afford a big boat and a small house, we are looking for a small house we can dock our small to medium size sailboat on (not yet purchased). The cost of slip fees vs. the additional cost of a house on a canal is about break-even. And I know me. I'm more likely to get a lot of use out of the boat if I see it all the time than if it's sitting in a slip at a marina. And the boat will be better maintained if it's in the back yard.

Someone here said there are some of us who are one with a boat. One of those inexplicable curiosities is that we find great satisfaction, and even peace, in doing something others have no interest in doing. For me, it's sailing. The first time I stepped aboard a sailboat I became one with it. I know people who become white-knuckled the moment a sailboat heels. Not me. It's a rush!

Power boats are like driving a car, after a while it is all the same and if you haven't got a goal (usually fishing) then it becomes boring and damned expensive. Sailing boats are different, you actually have to work and plan what is going on all the time. I lived on a river water front for my first thirty years of being on this planet and I had a boat before I had a push bike and my life was centred on the water. I could not imagine living on the water with no sailing boat or kayak or even a rowing boat but a power boat would not get a look in.

[Kev Williams]

Sailing boats are different, you actually have to work and plan what is going on all the time.
"Working and planning" is my 17 hour a day job description, like I need more of that on the weekend? ;)

I'll take a boring ride in one of our 4 powerboats anytime!

As for an answer to the original question: It depends on whether you enjoy boating or not.

Water is my most favorite thing in life. There's just something about water. It takes up 71% of our planet. It's magical, serene, calming. It's a part of us. It inspires awe. It's necessary for life. It invokes passion. It invokes fear. It commands great respect. It can be deadly if you don't respect it.

I absolutely LOVE boating. However, I don't need a boat to enjoy water. But I DO need water to enjoy a boat!
:)

[Pat Barry]

Oceans are MUCH different from lakes. There are some on the lee side of the great lakes with docks and hoists, but on the windward side where waves can get really big, not so much. Ocean front has the potential for very big waves, not so good for docks and hoists. Harbors are located or designed to mitigate the big waves to allow docks. Some harbors even have beaches, but not always a great view.

Straying from Julie's question, sorry. Simple answer, you don't buy bulkheaded canal front for the view. On the other hand, here is the view down the canal toward a 250 acre lake from my deck in Michigan.


You got any fish in that canal Ole?

[paul cottingham]

Honestly, if you have to ask the question, you already have the answer. Boats are a buttload of work and expense. If you need feedback about whether its worth owning one, you dont really want one. I Would go with that!

I would love a house with a water view, but would never own a boat.

[Ole Anderson]

Yes we have lots of panfish and some bass along with carp in the canal. Grandkids love catching bluegills with a piece of hot dog. I don't fish much at all at home, but in FL I fish probably 30% of the days we are there. You never know what will be at the end of the line.

And having boats in both fresh and salt water, let me tell you, salt water is a pain unless you pull them after each dunk. Fresh water, clean the hull at the end of the year and winterize and store on your trailer, no big maintenance deal. Bigger boats are a different kettle of fish, so to speak.

Even in salt water, I see a lot of folks with pontoons for putting around. A different experience than a go-fast boat.

[Julie Moriarty]

Growing up in a fresh water "ocean-like" environment, I'll admit I'm not looking forward to barnacles, crevice corrosion, and all the other stuff we don't get in fresh water. But for all the thousands of miles I've sailed on the Great Lakes, I've never seen anything like I have sailing the few hundred miles I've sailed in the Bahamas and the Keys. Once you experience that, which is only a fraction of what the oceans have to offer, it's easy to deal with the challenges.

[Curt Harms]

http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur

318821

[Julie Moriarty]

BOAT:
1). Break Out Another Thousand.
2). A hole in the water surrounded by wood/plastic/steel/aluminium into which you pour all your money.
BOAT Bucks:
Monetary unit for yachties, for the sake of simplicity with a fixed conversion ratio of 1.000 with the local currency.
Boat ownership:
1). Standing fully-clothed under a cold shower, tearing up 100-dollar bills.
2). Boat ownership is like riding in a convertible with the top down in a cold rainstorm, steadily throwing 100 dollar bills out the window. Except for the fact, that you cannot actually ride in the boat, because it is broken.
Sailing
1). The fine art of getting wet and becoming ill, while going nowhere slowly at great expense.
2). Standing fully clothed in an ice-cold shower tearing up boat bucks* as fast as you can go.
(*) see also "Boat Bucks"
Yacht:
Commonly used to describe any boat prior to its purchase, and by many boat owners to describe their vessel to persons who have never seen it and are likely never to do so.

[Kev Williams]

We all have our hobbie's, and boating's not all that different than most others where spending money is concerned.

That comic strip up there is totally interchangeable :)

(I could keep it going forever, but I need to get some work done so I can go boating later!) ;)



http://www.engraver1.com/erase1/hb1.jpg

http://www.engraver1.com/erase1/hb2.jpg

http://www.engraver1.com/erase1/hb3.jpg

http://www.engraver1.com/erase1/hb4.jpg

http://www.engraver1.com/erase1/hb5.jpg

http://www.engraver1.com/erase1/hb6.jpg

http://www.engraver1.com/erase1/hb7.jpg

[Rich Engelhardt]

If you don't own a boat, why pay the premium price? I don't get it.Three reasons - the three big reasons of real estate,,,,,location, location, location.
It's all about, not what it is but where it's at.
A premium location will hold it's value better, recover from a downturn faster and sell in a shorter time if/when it goes on the market.

Simple answer for me would be not to concern myself with the boat issue and look at the housing market in total and buy according to my wants and needs.

FWIW & this applies to the situation. I do not consider my house my largest asset. A house is a persons single largest liability. You have all that money locked up in it and can't get it out. Should you ever need money - for something like a life changing medical emergency (which anyone at retirement age should consider), your ability to quickly turn your largest liability into something spendable and retain as much of it's value as possible, should be a large consideration.

[Julie Moriarty]

The premium for living on an ocean access canal could be 25% or more in the purchase price and 50% or more for property taxes, (insurance is more too), if you own that house for 10, 20 or more years, would you recoup the additional costs you paid when you sell it? Or would you be better off taking all that money and saving or investing it? You certainly wouldn't have enjoyed a beautiful ocean view all those years. That leaves investment value the only plus, if you never owned a boat. Considering the fluctuating values of real estate over the last decade, I'd say it's a gamble, at best, to buy canal property for it's investment value. But if you own a boat... :)

[Chris Padilla]

Timely topic, Julie.

I just took the family on an extended Northern California weekend which included a trip around half of Clear Lake. We got deep into some extended arms of land (peninsula) just because we like to do such things when touring around being spontaneous. I noticed two things: houses with docks on the water and house on the other side of the road, no water...no dock...no boat. I'm thinking if I lived there that I would be on the lake, with a dock, with a boat. I can't imagine living so close to water and not being able to go directly ON the water pretty much whenever I wanted to. What would be the point living so close to the water? My wife and daughter agreed with me. While it would cost more, I would pay it or I simply wouldn't live so darn close to the lake in the first place. BUT...each to their own. Maybe some just like the view and prefer to never step foot on the water (so to speak). :) There were plenty of house high up on the land with grand views....

[Rich Engelhardt]

Real estate is a horrible investment for the most part.

We bought our house in 1986 and paid $74.5 K for it.
Our monthly payment was around $800.
$800 a month for 30 years adds up to $288,000.

Our house today would sell for about $165,000.
That's a pretty typical situation these days. So - no, real estate (for most people) isn't the safe long term investment it was for our parents & grandparents.

However - there's still the laws of supply and demand to consider.
A desirable location get's that way because it's in limited supply.
As long as the demand for that location exists, it's always going to be a better choice than a less desirable location.
Faster turn around -- better value holding.

The real trick is to find the best deal. That takes a lot of work....
"Look at a thousand, make an offer on a hundred and buy one"....

[Curt Harms]

Real estate is a horrible investment for the most part.


But you have to live somewhere. 288,000/348 months (29 years)= 353.45/month. You'd have to add on taxes plus whatever utilities are normally included in a rental and subtract the mortgage interest deduction etc. etc. As a non-owner-occupied investment you may be right.

[Michael Stein]

I own a boat, and have owned several boats over the years. I do not live on the water, though my house is about 100 yds from a tidal creek (no community access, houses across the street do have docks, though at low tide many of them are mud). I used to trailer my boat, but we decided this year to keep it on a lift at a local marina (about 8 1/2 minutes door to lift). It is expensive to do so, but with the kids, it is worth it. We also get use of the marina swimming pool, another added bonus for the kids.

That said. If I had the opportunity to purchase a canal/tidal creek/ICW front home, within a reasonable distance from work (I currently have a 5 minute commute), I would certainly do so, as I am now paying a "premium" for the lift. The home would also need to have reasonable amount of space for a shop.

Many hobbies have come and gone in my life, but two are here to stay - Boating and woodworking.

[Rich Engelhardt]

As a non-owner-occupied investment you may be right.
Other way around,,,

As a rental, you make a killing.

With all the tax advantages and depreciation, you end up having your cake (real estate) and eating it too.

[Michael Stein]

Other way around,,,

As a rental, you make a killing.

With all the tax advantages and depreciation, you end up having your cake (real estate) and eating it too.

I think you are missing the point. He is not saying that a house in an "investment." As you have already pointed out, as an investment, real estate tends to be a poor choice. However, as he said, you need a place to live. You can typically own a nicer home (more space, bigger yard, customize it to be your own) for far less monthly than you would find on the rental market. I don't think anyone thinks that buying a primary home is an investment that they will turn around and make money one years later, it is more about having a space to call yours.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Ok - it's well beyond the scope of the OP.

I'll just say that in addition to our house, we also own 5 rentals that provide a nice steady stream of income and our return on our investment totals up to right around 19% per year.
In any kind of economy, that sort of return is nothing short of spectacular.
Each one of the 5 rentals has lost quite a bit of what we paid for them initially while our primary has gone up in value.

The idea that "you have to live somewhere so you might as well build equity" is way outdated in a lot of markets.

As a landlord/property owner, I follow this sort of thing very closely. The point at which buying is better than renting has been pushed way back in many markets.
it used to be right around 7 years. If you stayed inn one place 7 years or longer, it made sense to buy instead of rent.
With today's high ( and growing higher every day) costs of repairs, that's no longer the case.

The whole topic is very convoluted and way beyond this thread.

[Rick Potter]

Rich,

This would make an interesting thread if you care to start one. The difference in numbers from one area to another can be astounding, but as you say this thread is not the place to discuss them.

[Julie Moriarty]

Timely topic, Julie.

I just took the family on an extended Northern California weekend which included a trip around half of Clear Lake. We got deep into some extended arms of land (peninsula) just because we like to do such things when touring around being spontaneous. I noticed two things: houses with docks on the water and house on the other side of the road, no water...no dock...no boat. I'm thinking if I lived there that I would be on the lake, with a dock, with a boat. I can't imagine living so close to water and not being able to go directly ON the water pretty much whenever I wanted to. What would be the point living so close to the water? My wife and daughter agreed with me. While it would cost more, I would pay it or I simply wouldn't live so darn close to the lake in the first place. BUT...each to their own. Maybe some just like the view and prefer to never step foot on the water (so to speak). :) There were plenty of house high up on the land with grand views....

For a home in a snow-less climate, my ideal would be 1500-1800 sq/ft house with about the same size screened-in outdoor area that had a lap pool in it with a covered lanai where you could sit under a paddle fan on warm or rainy evenings with an umbrella drink in hand. Out back would be a 35' sailboat sitting in 6+ feet of water that isn't too far away from a nice sailing body of water. A small air-conditioned shop would be nice too. Is that too much to ask? :rolleyes:

[Chris Padilla]

For a home in a snow-less climate, my ideal would be 1500-1800 sq/ft house with about the same size screened-in outdoor area that had a lap pool in it with a covered lanai where you could sit under a paddle fan on warm or rainy evenings with an umbrella drink in hand. Out back would be a 35' sailboat sitting in 6+ feet of water that isn't too far away from a nice sailing body of water. A small air-conditioned shop would be nice too. Is that too much to ask? :rolleyes:

Nope! :D I'm sure such a place exists...just gotta find it! :)

[Rick Potter]

I have seen dozens of places like that, Julie.

Unfortunately, they were in the lake country of Arkansas, not Florida.

[Mac McQuinn]

I'd have no issues living in a lakeside or seaside home without a boat. My in-laws just sold their lakeside cottage after living there since the 70's and have not owned a boat for several years. Putting in and taking the boat hoist out every year got to be too much plus the maintenance, insurance, storage, etc of a power boat was just too expensive year after year.

That said, I'd love to live on a houseboat! The whole property ownership thing seems overbearing at times.:rolleyes:
Mac

[Julie Moriarty]

I have seen dozens of places like that, Julie.

Unfortunately, they were in the lake country of Arkansas, not Florida.
The problem with sailing on a lake is you'll eventually get bored, except on the Great Lakes. Now if we could move the Great Lakes south of the frost line... :rolleyes:

[Ole Anderson]

Florida, seriously, in the summer? No way. Same with most of the states south of the Mason-Dixon line. I like Michigan, it is so, recognizable, on a map. And it has so many great lakes. And that Pure Michigan snow (when you get away from the cities) is so pretty! If you can manage it, best of both worlds is to have a winter place in the south and a summer place in the north. Both on the water with a boat of course. For us our winter place is a motorhome on a canal to the Gulf. Well, not really winter, just November, March and April. December, January and February are too cold in FL to really enjoy boating most days. Can't miss Christmas with the kids not to mention the snow.

[Julie Moriarty]

We're staying in a rental until we find a place to buy. It's on the same canal system we're hoping to find a home. I took this picture today:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=319982&d=1440171447

The homeowner to the right has a 40+' power boat but he left for the weekend. That's the only boat in this part of the channel. There's a house to the immediate right, out of the camera lens, with two docks and no boats. There is another power boat off in the distance on the left and a sailboat just beyond that. Other than those, the docks are boatless. BTW, the water is black and you can't see past 1' deep.

To me this screams "PUT A BOAT AT THOSE DOCKS!" But I guess not to many of the homeowners here agree. And it's not for lack of funds. The house next door to where we are staying is valued at over $2M. On the other side it's $700K. Across the canal it's $600K and next to that is $950K.

[Ole Anderson]

You are teasing us Julie with that post and no picture...

Looks like we would almost be neighbors, at least 3 months of the year, our hangout is Anna Maria Island, about an hour north.

[Garth Almgren]

I've been boating since I was 4 years old, and right now I've got a 1964 Glastron 14' runabout in the garage that gets used mainly for crabbing and towing an intertube, but I have taken it up as far north as Nanimo, BC. My dad has a 1942 Chris-Craft 30' cabin cruiser that stays in the water but under cover in a nearby marina. Sadly, I've been so busy that I haven't been able to get out much on either one in the last couple years, but dad did charter a gorgeous 42' Grand Banks Motoryacht last summer and we were all completely spoiled by having showers, twin engines, and an auto pilot that tied into charting software. :D

I don't know what the boating scene is like in FL, but If I could afford a house with a dock here in the Puget Sound, I'd certainly set aside some funds for a boat (large enough to overnight on) to keep at that dock. There are so many destinations around the Puget Sound that are great for a weekend trip, or we can head up to the San Juan Islands or the Canadian Gulf Islands for longer vacations. The greater Seattle area has one of the highest boat ownership per-capita rates in the country, and for good reason.

[Julie Moriarty]

You are teasing us Julie with that post and no picture...

Looks like we would almost be neighbors, at least 3 months of the year, our hangout is Anna Maria Island, about an hour north.
Did the picture come through yet? It's from my misc albums here. I can see it on my computer.

AMI looks beautiful. How is it on a barrier island? For no reason other than what happened to Galveston Island in the last hurricane to hit it, I have been avoiding homes on barrier islands. Punta Gorda took it on the chin in 2004 with Charley but locals tell me hurricanes are a rarity here.

Garth, one of the reasons we decided on the area we are looking now is it has great sailing and a lot of islands to explore. It's a far cry from the Bahamas but we could reach the Bahamas or the Keys if we took an extended trip in a seaworthy sailboat. But with only a weekend to explore, you can make it to many interesting anchorages from here. That's one of the reasons I don't get buying a home on a canal and not owning a boat.

[Larry Edgerton]

Julie, I was in Punta Gorda for a while after Katrina fixing bucket trucks for an overhead company. One of my many talents.:D

They had some damage, but no where near as bad as Texas, where I went first.

Up until I had a financial disaster I had a 28' Nimble Nomad and a 27' catamaran. I was getting too old for the catamaran but I sure do miss the Nomad. Best boat I have ever owned.

Hope you love it down there, big change. Myself, I could not live without my trees, and although winter is cold here, summers in the south are unbearable for me, at least at this age. I am excited to hear about you wandering adventures, I can live vicariously through you!:o

[Julie Moriarty]

Thanks, Larry. I lived in and around Chicago for 64 years. It's a great place but winters, after I retired, were taking a toll. I spent too much time indoors and most of it was inactive. I don't think I'll ever get used to Florida summers but they will be more tolerable if I can get out and do some sailing. I still vividly remember the first time I sailed over to the Bahamas and the blistering heat. But the microwave I felt like I was in was soon forgotten as we enjoyed one of the best sailing areas in the world.