Delta Unisaw ASSEMBLY, Thread #3 = Unifence body won't engage fence rail

[Tom Burgess]

In 2006 I purchased a Delta Unisaw X5 with 50" Unifence, mobile base, mobile base extension and a 'U50' extension table made by Biesemeyer to accommodate the 50" rip capacity. I'm finally assembling it and finding it to be a loosely cobbled set of disparate sub assemblies - some of which don't fit together worth a damn. The prior two threads in this painful litany are: 1) New Table Saw - Assembly Questions (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?233048-New-Table-Saw-Assembly-Questions), and 2) Biesemeyer U50 Extension Table is BOWED. How to straighten it? (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?233676-Biesemeyer-U50-Extension-Table-is-BOWED-How-to-straighten-it)

I've never had trouble like this when assembling ANYTHING. What a waste of time and effort, and Delta Tech/Customer Support could not care less (based on two conversations with them).

I need to hear from Unifence owners (see images below):
You guys know this: You set the fence body onto the front rail and then TWIST the handle to lock the fence body onto the rail, prior to lowering the handle so cam action can lock the fence into final position. I cannot twist the handle because the rotating steel bar does not enter into the fence rail slot deeply enough. I forced it a couple of times and the steel bar bit into the inner surface of the aluminum rail slot, marring it (grrr!).

There are two big black plastic 'things' that pass through the back of the fence body; they appear to be ADJUSTERS. Each is threaded and has a large hex nut shape molded into it. Logic suggests that turning them OUTWARD would create more space for the steel locking bar and aluminum rail slot to interact. AM I RIGHT?

PROBLEM: I can't get them to turn, and when I lean on them heavy with a wrench it feels like the hex shape might shear off(!). Is there a way to LUBRICATE the threads...?

This Unisaw with all it's difficulties and frustrating surprises makes me wish for my trusty old Craftsman, which bit the dust around Christmas time...(sniff). I will never buy another Delta tool.

[Matt Day]

i feel for you, but you're not having fun anymore. Sell it and buy something else.

Or find a local ww'er who can help you out.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

The big adjuster screws should turn very easily. They must be gummed up after sitting for so long? Maybe try spraying them with WD40 and letting them sit for a day or two?

I just pulled mine off, and the space between the body and the metal locking piece is between 3/8"-7/16". Mine's a little older than yours, but I'd expect them to be nearly identical?

[mark kosse]

Howdy Tom, A unifence takes some getting used to. I had problems when I first got mine. That being said, it is a fine fence. take your time and learn to use it. It'll pay off. those adjusters will turn, the fence will lock well and I love being able to just slide the fence back to make cut offs with a miter guage. just keep trying, it'll work out.

[Tom Burgess]

i feel for you, but you're not having fun anymore. Sell it and buy something else.
Or find a local ww'er who can help you out.
Thanks Matt, but I really have no option but to keep and use this saw (for now). Otherwise, I would do as you suggest tomorrow. I've been thinking about the benefits of using this big, powerful, precision Unisaw for years (and would not do well selling it now that my confidence in it is diminished) so I will make it work. I'm just fed up with all the "creative workarounds" I had to employ...

I guess there's a BENEFIT in that I'm already very familiar with this saw's construction and operation thanks to all the FUN we've been having here. Despite my complaints, onward and upward. :D

[Tom Burgess]

The big adjuster screws should turn very easily. They must be gummed up after sitting for so long? Maybe try spraying them with WD40 and letting them sit for a day or two?
I just pulled mine off, and the space between the body and the metal locking piece is between 3/8"-7/16". Mine's a little older than yours, but I'd expect them to be nearly identical?
Thanks, Gerry, for confirming the two 'black things' as being adjuster screws, and that they should turn easily. Per your comments, I tried a socket instead of a box wrench, and used a long handle for leverage. The 7/8" socket got a much better purchase on the black plastic hex shapes than the wrench could, so I carefully increased pressure on that long handle until BOTH BLACK ADJUSTERS TURNED. Woohoo! :D It's such a simple accomplishment, but I'm DELIGHTED. I backed both adjusters out a little and now the fence head glides on the fence rail and table top(s) beautifully - and the handle's cam action locks the fence head in place gently and with real precision. Even smoother and better than I've been imagining since 2006. :eek:

And the space between the locking bar and the rear wall of my fence head seems to be about the same as yours. Thanks for taking that measurement. Tomorrow I'll add the fence, the measuring window and the slide stop to this fence system - and with any luck, I'll be DONE (fingers crossed).

[Tom Burgess]

Howdy Tom, A unifence takes some getting used to. I had problems when I first got mine. That being said, it is a fine fence. take your time and learn to use it. It'll pay off. those adjusters will turn, the fence will lock well and I love being able to just slide the fence back to make cut offs with a miter guage. just keep trying, it'll work out.
Hey, Mark (or I should 'howdy you back' since you're in Houston :D). Thanks for your encouraging remarks. I'm beginning to see what you mean (per my post #6 above). Now that I've got the head adjusted enough to get it working and got my extension table flat enough to work, I'm very pleased at the smoothness and apparent precision. I haven't mounted the actual fence on the head yet, but have a pretty good idea of how it's going to work. I think it'll be GRRREAT (if nuthin' else bites me in the arse now).

I bought this saw at a manufacturer's "Special Event" held at a local authorized dealer. They gave me the option of either the Delta Unifence or the Biesemeyer for the same price. Others may disagree, but to me the Unifence seemed (and seems) to be a more refined and more versatile approach. And if the Biesmeyer configuration is needed for certain operations, there's a Biesmeyer-like accessory fence for $90 that fits onto the Unifence head the same way the Unifence fence does.

And YEAH, the ability to slide the fence toward and away from the operator is just too good. And flipping the fence on its side for ripping really thin material is neat, too. Hey! I think I'm starting to get over my 'dark thoughts' about this saw, and beginning to remember why I bought it in the first place. Thanks to all you guys.

[mark kosse]

Good, The X5 machines were some of the best delta ever built although I'm not sure what the changes were on a uni. I don't think the extension table is necessarily deltas fault though. Time changes things. Get the saw up and running with the old table, build you a new table and run that saw. It'll do you real fine.

[Tom Burgess]

Will do, Mark. And I'm glad to hear that the X5 is considered 'a good specimen', especially in light of my challenges thus far. :D

Thanks

[Steve Wilde]

I'll second what mark says, I have an X5 DJ20 that's been a tank! I love that thing, although I do wish it was a 12". I recently bought myself a sawstop PCS to replace my old delta contractor saw. The sawstop is a great saw, but not nearly as solid and smooth as my dad's 2005 Unisaw. In hindsight I should have sprung for the ICS saswtop instead. Maybe someday I'll upgrade. If you don't like that saw, It will sell in a nanosecond! I'd keep it if I were you though!

[Tom Burgess]

I'll second what mark says, I have an X5 DJ20 that's been a tank! I love that thing [...] The sawstop is a great saw, but not nearly as solid and smooth as my dad's 2005 Unisaw. If you don't like that saw, It will sell in a nanosecond! I'd keep it if I were you though! I'm glad to hear that, Steve. It's good to have the option of selling it if I need to, and I'm glad to know I'm using a really good table saw. I owned my previous saw for more than 30 years and relied on it in countless ways. The table saw truly is the centerpiece of any shop.

Responses to my first thread regarding this saw seemed to indicate a less-than-favorable resale value (maybe). I hope your good opinion of the saw is the more accurate viewpoint. :D

[Bruce Page]

Good, The X5 machines were some of the best delta ever built although I'm not sure what the changes were on a uni. I don't think the extension table is necessarily deltas fault though. Time changes things. Get the saw up and running with the old table, build you a new table and run that saw. It'll do you real fine.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the principal difference between the Delta X5 and a non X5 was the warranty. The X5 having a 5 year. The mechanics of the machine were identical, IIRC.

[Tom Burgess]

Hey, Bruce. Don't harsh my buzz, man... :D

As things stand, I own one of the best saws Delta ever made. Enough Said as far as I'm concerned. :D

[Rick Potter]

I love my Unifence. One suggestion though. There is a cursor for each fence position. I put tape over the one I am not using. Don't ask why.

[Bruce Page]

Hey, Bruce. Don't harsh my buzz, man... :D

As things stand, I own one of the best saws Delta ever made. Enough Said as far as I'm concerned. :D
My bad, you need all the cheering up you can get. :p

[mark kosse]

On the bandsaw there was a difference in guides and a fence was standard, if i recall correctly. I've never owned anything that new.

[Tom Burgess]

I love my Unifence. One suggestion though. There is a cursor for each fence position. I put tape over the one I am not using. Don't ask why. I hate to admit it, but based on my own limitations I already know why! :D

[Tom Burgess]

My bad, you need all the cheering up you can get. :p I deserve that, but now that I have the fence mounted and all squared up, I'm beginning to like the saw. As you advised in my first thread regarding ASSEMBLY, this is a whole different level of table saw. I've never worked on anything this smooth and precise (and YES, I'm kicking myself as predicted).

My complaints have been well founded, but I think that phase of the relationship is behind me (us?) now. Those problems/solutions should pay off in the USING of the saw.

[Bruce Page]

Don't take this the wrong way but in Delta's defense, I think most, if not all of your assembly issues are a direct result of it sitting unassembled for 8 years and your admitted lack of assembly experience. I bought my Unisaw with 52" Biesemeyer fence and mobile base in 1998 and put it together that weekend. I don't think it took more than a couple of hours to assemble and dial everything in. It has never lost those settings. I did replace the OEM extension table a couple of years later with a Woodhaven extension table that had a router setup in it.
Unless you live in the desert southwest I'm betting you have humidity where you live. Humidity alone can cause problems if left unchecked. Having the extension table sitting on end rather than flat as intended probably caused the 1/4" crown. I'm surprised it wasn't more. I'm glad you can see the light at the end of the tunnel but blaming Delta for the issues you experienced is unfair, IMO.
Again, this is meant as constructive criticism not an attack.
I think you will love the saw and like you said, you're an expert on it now. :)

[Tom Burgess]

Don't take this the wrong way but in Delta's defense, I think most, if not all of your assembly issues are a direct result of it sitting unassembled for 8 years and your admitted lack of assembly experience. [...] I'm glad you can see the light at the end of the tunnel but blaming Delta for the issues you experienced is unfair, IMO. Again, this is meant as constructive criticism not an attack. I think you will love the saw and like you said, you're an expert on it now. :)
I take several of your points, and reject several. First, I don't admit any lack of assembly experience. In fact, I have "assembly experience" that would surprise you. There are obvious mismatches between certain sub-assemblies that constitute this 'saw package' as it were. And there are some glaringly bad examples of machine work and casting. The most troublesome for me has been the extension table, sold by Delta as part of this Delta saw package, but apparently manufactured by Biesemeyer.

I'll concede that the extension table bow might be due to time+humidity (water can and will destroy EVERYTHING :eek: eventually), but I don't think standing the table blank on end in its sealed original packaging bowed it. Maybe it did...in conjunction with humidity...but the substrate is covered on all surfaces with a serious plastic laminate, so I'm not sure how humidity would reach the water-sensitive substrate... Still, moisture is a destructive bugger :D and time + humidity may indeed be to blame for some of the "fun" I've been having here lately.

Whatever the cause of the bow--and despite advice to the contrary--I figured out a method to straighten the top enough to make it work with the fence rail extrusion - by weighting the top two different ways and applying torch heat to strategic locations. Again, hardly a lack of assembly or troubleshooting experience on my part.

And Bruce, if you could assemble this particular saw in 2 hours...well...I think you're very much mistaken about that. I spent more than twenty hours, in large part because I had to stop, back up, rethink and improvise so often. I think I'm going to enjoy using this saw, but its assembly was a time-consuming PAIN IN THE ARSE, and Delta's Customer Support / Tech Support reps were of no service or assistance whatsoever - couldn't be bothered to even advise me regarding an obviously defective part, and then questioned my honesty. The only meaningful information I received from the Deltoids was that this saw was manufactured at a time when Black&Decker (yikes) had recently purchased Delta - and all hell was breaking loose there. I think that might account for some of the problems I encountered in assembling this particular saw 'package'.

USING this saw should prove gratifying, and I own several Delta tools, but I stand by my prior statement:
I will never buy another Delta tool.

[Bruce Page]

Tom, as I said, I didn't mean to offend. I thought I read somewhere, maybe between the lines, that you didn't have much experience with this sort of process. In any case, you do now!

[Tom Burgess]

No offense taken, Bruce. The extent of my reply was only an attempt at clarity. And in that spirit, I admit I may have overlooked the part played in "the bowing" by the bare-wood framing under the laminate-covered extension table blank. There appears to be no finish applied to those 3/4 x 1-3/4" strips, so I guess they would be particularly susceptible to moisture/humidity - and we're having the rainiest summer on record where I live.

So you may be right about the source of the bow, and who knows...it might actually be a temporary condition occurring in just the past several months. I'm not holding my breath, but the table might flatten out on its own if it ever stops raining here. :eek:

I'm just glad the blasted saw is finally assembled and functional. Now it's back to work. Thanks for the help.

[Rick Potter]

One of the biggest disappointments with my Felder saw was the table. It had a two piece table extension for the 50" fence, and they were both sheet metal. It was solid enough, but it sure wasn't flat. I would have gladly exchanged it for a particle board/laminate table.

[Tom Burgess]

One of the biggest disappointments with my Felder saw was the table. It had a two piece table extension for the 50" fence, and they were both sheet metal. It was solid enough, but it sure wasn't flat. I would have gladly exchanged it for a particle board/laminate table. I hear you, Rick. If this Biesemeyer U50 extension table does not flatten out entirely, I'll make a new one out of MDF with a Formica work surface. I'll also weld up a support frame from steel box tubing with legs that are situated at the outside edges (front and rear edges) of the table. And if I'm able to do away with the mobile base, I'll put those legs at the absolute corners of the table.

My current situation requires the standard/original legs be mounted too far IN from the front and and rear table edges - making for an unstable surface when cutting 4x8 sheet goods. That's because the legs must accommodate the oddly narrow mobile base extension frame. And to make things worse, the feet of those legs don't attach to the mobile base extension frame at all. The height-adjustable feet simply rest upon a pair of gussets. This is one of those poorly thought-out mismatches among the sub-assemblies that I've referenced. I worked around this shortcoming by fabricating a temporary pair of legs and wide platform upon which they stand (contributing to my 20+ hours of assembly).

The Delta NON-TechSupport rep claims that's a perfectly good design that never caused any problems. BULL. Take a look at the current Unisaw. The extension table legs are at the outside corners of the extension table. Gee, I wonder why they made that design change...

830

[Mike Goetzke]

Few years back I purchased a new Uni. After three tries I gave up on getting a flat table board. I just got over it because I designed and built a router/storage cabinet to fit under the wing. The cabinet eliminated the need for support legs and I used the cabinet structure with shims to flatten out the table board. I also reinforced the table board around the router lift hole. Over 3-years the table stayed flat. If you want a picture of my Uni & cabinet PM me.

I too can't envision it taking 20+ hours to assemble this saw. But, I've assembled a few other tools in the past.

(FYI-I sold the Uni after completing a huge kitchen/house remodeling project that burnt me out. I tried working without a TS in my shop. Didn't work and now I have a 1950 Uni that I had a blast restoring.)


Mike

[Tom Burgess]

Very kool, Mike. I sent you a PM.

Experimenting and brainstorming on how to work around problems eats up a lot of time, and then implementing whatever you come up with takes time, and waxing the tops takes time, and removing rust from parts that never got wet takes time, and calling the useless Deltoid Tech Supporters takes time, and on, and on, and on.

Add it all up. 20+ hours is a low estimate.