Adze for carving a chair seat

[paul cottingham]

I am starting on a new project, building a few bar stools with sculpted seats. I am looking for feedback on the best tool for actually roughing the seats out. For a variety of reasons i am limited to the tools carried by my local Lee Valley. My choices begin with LV's "sculptors adze."
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=31068&cat=1,130,43332
it looks like a small, light tool, and I've actually held one, it doesn't seem like it would tire you too quickly. But i do worry that it is too light, and may require extra time to scoop a seat.

my second choice is a much more traditional one, an adze you would use standing over the work, with the work between your feet on the floor.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=20113&cat=1,200,41131,20113
this seems like an adze as i envision one, and i suspect i would make a short handle for it, for use on a lower bench. I am leaning towards this tool.

third and final option is a more robust, shorter handled tool called a gutter adze. It looks like a two handed beast, with much more curvature in the head.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=41159&cat=1,41131
this tool looks like it could make a seat in no time. But it has the added disadvantage of being more expensive, and my budget is tight (gift card.)

so, any chair experts, or anyone with an opinion, can you offer any feedback on these tools?
thanks, as always.

(Mods, i can never figure out if I'm violating the TOS with pics, attachments and links. If i have, please accept my apologies, and let me know how to make it compliant.)

[Don Slaughter]

Hey Paul,
I've made many chair seats using this http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,310&p=54888 for rough shaping and then follow up with a travisher and a scraper. You'll be pleasantly surprised at how effective the pull shave is. Short learning curve...mostly defining the blade depth.
good luck,
Don

[george wilson]

I can't remember what it is called this morning,but I have had a curved inshave for years. It is much easier to accurately control than an adze type tool. And,it can remove plenty of wood at each pull.

[Matt Knights]

I can't remember what it is called this morning,but I have had a curved inshave for years. It is much easier to accurately control than an adze type tool. And,it can remove plenty of wood at each pull.

Maybe a scorp George? http://home.comcast.net/~kvaughn65/scorp.jpg

[bill howes]

318177318176
I've had good luck with gouges and although not as fast as an adze, less likely to go too deep. I outline the depths I want with a Foerstner bit and cut with and across grain to get to depth and then smooth with a travisher. Having tried a straight and a curved gouge I now use the straight gouge exclusively.
Good luck with your project

[Mike Henderson]

I use a chairmaker's plane, which is one with a double curved bottom. Another approach is the one Bill H mentioned, drill holes to the depth you need and then clean up to that depth.

For any approach, the difficulty depends on the wood used. Softwood is pretty easy.

Mike

[lowell holmes]

I have a convex bottom Japanese plane as well as a travisher from Highland Hardware. My favorite tool is a travisher made by a classmate in a chair class I attended. It has a 10" radius iron.

It will smooth the seat with ease. There is no tear out and it does a great job on cross grain work.

[paul cottingham]

Hey Paul,
I've made many chair seats using this http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,310&p=54888 for rough shaping and then follow up with a travisher and a scraper. You'll be pleasantly surprised at how effective the pull shave is. Short learning curve...mostly defining the blade depth.
good luck,
Don

Don, I own one of those, but thought of it as more of a finishing tool. do you use it to actually rough out the seat bottom? Does it take a long time, or is it pretty efficient? one more question, does it work OK cross grain? mine isn't even out of the box yet.
thanks!

[paul cottingham]

I can't remember what it is called this morning,but I have had a curved inshave for years. It is much easier to accurately control than an adze type tool. And,it can remove plenty of wood at each pull.

George, do you use the inshave for roughing out the seat as well?
thanks!

[paul cottingham]

I use a chairmaker's plane, which is one with a double curved bottom. Another approach is the one Bill H mentioned, drill holes to the depth you need and then clean up to that depth.

For any approach, the difficulty depends on the wood used. Softwood is pretty easy.

Mike

do you rough to that depth with that plane?
thanks!

[george wilson]

Yes,senior moment,it is a scorp. I bought mine in about 1965 from Woodcraft.

Yes,I did use it to scoop out chair seats from scratch.

[Mike Henderson]

do you rough to that depth with that plane?
thanks!
Yes, I do.

Mike

[paul cottingham]

Yes, I do.

Mike

How deep, if i may ask?

[Don Slaughter]

Yes Paul, it can hog out material using it cross grain. Once you get a feel for the depth setting then you can use it 'with grain' too but it is not nearly as aggressive as cross grain. The travisher is what I use to 'clean up' after the aggressive hogging out. Travisher can refine the shape so that a card scraper can finish it up. I also use a scorp (as Matt suggested) but find it to be much less effective in hard woods. That is another consideration...I've only used hard woods like oak or birch but many folks use softer woods for seats. I suppose other tools might be effective in that case.
Don

[Mike Henderson]

How deep, if i may ask?
I'll measure and let you know tomorrow. And will include a pix of a chair.

Mike

[Mike Holbrook]

Maybe a picture of the plane with it Mike, and where you purchased it.

[Tony Shea]

A travisher is another tool that would get the job done. I think you would be very disappointed in the adze's you have linked to. It appears that the bevel is on the inside of all those tools which is not the proper orientation for an adze used for scooping out. Hence why scorps are also bevel out, not bevel on the inside. Tim Manney makes a beautiful adze for scooping out chair seats that I use at the last LN open house in Warren, Maine. It was a dream to use. But without an adze I would def recommend using a scorp or a travisher to get you roughed out. An adze def takes some getting used to and can make a deep gouge in one swipe.

[Mike Henderson]

Here are some pictures of a sculpted seat rocker that I did. I've done a number of chairs with sculpted seats but all the others are in someone else's home. This is the only one that I made for myself.

318271

Here's a view looking down on to the seat.


318270

I measured the depth by putting a rule across the seat and then measuring down to the sculpted part.

318273

In the back part of the seat, I'm down about 3/4 inch.

318272

I think I'm limited in how many pictures I can put in a single post so I'll continue on the next post.

[Mike Henderson]

I also measured how deep I went in the legs.

318284

I'm down about 3/4 inch there, also.

318285

Continued on next post.

[Mike Henderson]

I sculpted this seat with the following two chairmaker planes. The small, metal one I bought from St James Bay and the wooden one I made myself.

318286

Here's a bit closer view of the metal one.

318287

Another view of the metal one.

318288

And a view of the bottom of the wooden one.

318289

The planes work something like a scrub plane. They hog out wood but you have to be careful about direction. You don't want to work into the grain - it's best to work cross grain or down grain - similar to a scrub plane. They leave grooves, just like a scrub plane. The little one has a flatter bottom across the plane and doesn't leave as much of a groove. I always finish with it even if I hog out the majority with the larger plane. But the little plane is quite effective by itself.

After getting the seat roughed out, I finish with coarse sandpaper in an ROS, then finer sandpaper in a ROS and finish by hand with sandpaper.

If, after the first coarse sanding I find bumps, I use the small plane to smooth things out. You can feel the surface better than you can see it. And that's what you're working for, a smooth feeling sculpted seat.

BTW, I marked out the blank before sculpting by sitting on the blank and traced the outline of my butt and legs with a pencil. In working a seat, I mostly just go by eye. If it looks good, I'm satisfied. I don't drill holes or anything else to figure out how deep to go. I outline and then start hogging out wood until it looks like I want it to look.

Mike

[What would I change? The blade of the big one is too wide which makes it harder to push. If I did seats often, I'd narrow the iron to about the width of a Stanley 40 scrub plane iron. Or get a Stanley 40 iron and make a new plane that wide.]

[Softwood, as is used on Windsor chairs, is easy and quick to do.]

[Stephen Clement]

I have the Sitka gutter adze from Kestrel Tools in Washington. It is marvelous and not too pricy. I bought the iron only and made my own handle and sheath which helped keep the cost down. Some people are talking about skipping the adze and going straight to an inshave or travisher, which I would not recommend. If you can afford it, get all 3. The adze hogs the material out fast, the inshave defines the shape, and the travisher provides the final finish. You could skip the adze and start with an inshave, but it will take much longer. I have a two cherries inshave which, apart from coming with an abysmal grinding job, is pretty good. Travishers are hard to come by vintage and new one are pricey. The cheapest option is from Elia Bizzarri in NC; slightly nicer but pricier is the one from Peter Galbert in MA. Also if you don't have it, get Galberts book. It will help make chair making seem much more approachable.

[Dave Anderson NH]

When I took a class from Mike Dunbar over 20 years ago there was a progression of tools used to sculpt a Windsor chair seat. We started with a gutter adze for the roughest heavy stock removal work and then started working with a scorp (inshave) to slightly refine the shape. A compass plane then evened things out and final refinement was with a travisher. This progression allowed us to work efficiently rather than spending huge amounts of time removing fine shavings with a toll or tools designed for finishing work. I've used the same method on the 9 other Windsors I've built over the years.

[Steve Voigt]

Some people are talking about skipping the adze and going straight to an inshave or travisher, which I would not recommend. If you can afford it, get all 3. The adze hogs the material out fast, the inshave defines the shape, and the travisher provides the final finish. You could skip the adze and start with an inshave, but it will take much longer.


When I took a class from Mike Dunbar over 20 years ago there was a progression of tools used to sculpt a Windsor chair seat. We started with a gutter adze for the roughest heavy stock removal work and then started working with a scorp (inshave) to slightly refine the shape. A compass plane then evened things out and final refinement was with a travisher. This progression allowed us to work efficiently rather than spending huge amounts of time removing fine shavings with a toll or tools designed for finishing work. I've used the same method on the 9 other Windsors I've built over the years.

Some great points in these two posts. To elaborate a little: roughing tools of all types--axes, adzes, gouges, even angle grinders (https://pegsandtails.wordpress.com/2010/05/26/making-an-english-comb-back-windsor-chair-part-three/)--don't have soles, because soles limit depth of cut. Finishing tools--planes, travishers, and spokeshaves--have soles, which smooth out irregularities from the roughing tools. A scrub or jack plane can rough a flat surface, but on a concave surface like a chair seat, it's hard to see how a plane could be an efficient roughing tool.

Random orbital sanders have "soles," I guess, but flat ones, so it's equally hard to see how they could be appropriate finishing tools for concave surfaces. They are also notorious for producing bumpy, uneven surfaces. I've never regretted pitching mine in the trash a couple years ago. If one has used a travisher or plane and still has tearout, another good option is scraping with a chair devil. That should at least get you to the point where you can hand-sand with medium or fine paper, so you don't do too much damage to the integrity of the curves.

[paul cottingham]

What beatiful work. Thanks for taking the time to share, you've given me some very good ideas.

[paul cottingham]

When I took a class from Mike Dunbar over 20 years ago there was a progression of tools used to sculpt a Windsor chair seat. We started with a gutter adze for the roughest heavy stock removal work and then started working with a scorp (inshave) to slightly refine the shape. A compass plane then evened things out and final refinement was with a travisher. This progression allowed us to work efficiently rather than spending huge amounts of time removing fine shavings with a toll or tools designed for finishing work. I've used the same method on the 9 other Windsors I've built over the years.

A gutter adze is one of my choices. How curved was the blade? The one i looked at was quite curved, a very pronounced "u." Do you think a seat in pine would be possible with a gutter adze and a Veritas pullshave? Ive played around withthe pullshave enough to think you could use it coarsely like a scorp, then set it fine like a travisher. Thoughts would be appreciated.

thanks for taking the time to reply

[paul cottingham]

Some great points in these two posts. To elaborate a little: roughing tools of all types--axes, adzes, gouges, even angle grinders (https://pegsandtails.wordpress.com/2010/05/26/making-an-english-comb-back-windsor-chair-part-three/)--don't have soles, because soles limit depth of cut. Finishing tools--planes, travishers, and spokeshaves--have soles, which smooth out irregularities from the roughing tools. A scrub or jack plane can rough a flat surface, but on a concave surface like a chair seat, it's hard to see how a plane could be an efficient roughing tool.

Random orbital sanders have "soles," I guess, but flat ones, so it's equally hard to see how they could be appropriate finishing tools for concave surfaces. They are also notorious for producing bumpy, uneven surfaces. I've never regretted pitching mine in the trash a couple years ago. If one has used a travisher or plane and still has tearout, another good option is scraping with a chair devil. That should at least get you to the point where you can hand-sand with medium or fine paper, so you don't do too much damage to the integrity of the curves.

I have really terrible neuropathic pain in my hands, so i cant use any sanders at all. They literally put my hand out of commission for a couple of days. Im also limited budget wise. A chair devil may actually fit with my current plan of an adze of some kind, followed by a pullshave, then maybe a chair devil. Any thoughts on this combination would be appreciated.

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

[george wilson]

Great work,Mike!!

[Karl Andersson]

Regarding the sculptor's adze show in the original post, I would not recommend it unless you are willing to make a number of modifications and accommodations. I got one as a gift since I was starting out making carved bowls and it was thought I could use this to make faster rough work. Right out of the box, this adze, made by Stubai, was not very good quality nor was it well designed. About the only thing good I could say is that it wasn't very expensive compared to other ones available.

For those interested in what the problems were: The handle is narrow and far too long considering the strike radius of the curved blade, limiting the angles you can cut. The head is light, so you have to swing it hard to get a decent amount of wood cut (especially end grain). The mortise for the handle (in the head) is pretty small, so they added a hollow pin to hold the head on instead of a wedge. It lasted one 30-minute chopping session on a poplar bowl. The curved side of the blade is, as mentioned, beveled only on the inside, making it want to dig into the "scoop" cut. The flat axe-head side was pretty dull and since the head is so light, you can't generate much of a cut with it. Its dullness was a good thing when the head broke off the handle and bounced back at me. The radius of the curve across the edge of the blade was way off - one corner was bent down at a much more acute curve than the other and the blade was ground straight across (instead of being cambered) so it had thin, weak corners that dug in and twisted the head during the cut. Oh, and the silly blue paint rubs off on the wood you're cutting.

So, in order to make it a useable tool, I made a thicker, shorter handle - about 2/3 the original length. Then I ground a flare in the top of the mortise of the head so I could use wedges to hold the handle on. The curved side of the blade was reground with a double bevel and given a camber and rounded corners. The straight blade got a shallower bevel and a slight camber as well, and I sanded back some of the blue paint. As it is, it works better, but still only "OK" - I do most bowl roughing with timber framing gouges (like 2-inch wide ones) until I can find a nice heavy antique bowl or cooper's adze. I use this adze for intermediate shaping after the gouge work to "blend" the gouge cuts before final shaping with scorps and knives.

Karl

[Steve Voigt]

I have really terrible neuropathic pain in my hands, so i cant use any sanders at all. They literally put my hand out of commission for a couple of days. Im also limited budget wise. A chair devil may actually fit with my current plan of an adze of some kind, followed by a pullshave, then maybe a chair devil. Any thoughts on this combination would be appreciated.

Thanks for taking the time to answer.



Actually, chair devil is probably the wrong term, since those are usually concave, but I was thinking of a housed convex scraper. They are easy to make and would definitely be easier on your hands than a card scraper.

I'm afraid I don't know anything about the pullshave. Looks like a reasonable tool, though. For the adze, several people here have recommended the Kestrel and the Tim Manney adzes, so if I were buying, I think I would listen to them.

I'm a little hesitant to mention this, because I know not everyone is into making their own tools, but a travisher can definitely be made. I did a little writeup on mine here (http://blackdogswoodshop.blogspot.com/2014/08/travisher-is-finished.html).

[Dave Anderson NH]

Paul- My gutter adze is an almost perfect U shape with slightly wider tips and a curve from cutting edge to poll. It is similar to the LV gutter adze but with a longer distance poll to cutting edge and with a longer handle. Handle length is important since the preferred method of work is with feet about shoulder width apart and on each edge of the seat blank holding it in place. You swing between your legs and too short a handle will cause a nightmare of a sore back.
I've never used the LV pull shave so I really can't offer you any advice positive or negative. I've no doubt though that it is of the normal commendable LV quality.

[paul cottingham]

Actually, chair devil is probably the wrong term, since those are usually concave, but I was thinking of a housed convex scraper. They are easy to make and would definitely be easier on your hands than a card scraper.

I'm afraid I don't know anything about the pullshave. Looks like a reasonable tool, though. For the adze, several people here have recommended the Kestrel and the Tim Manney adzes, so if I were buying, I think I would listen to them.

I'm a little hesitant to mention this, because I know not everyone is into making their own tools, but a travisher can definitely be made. I did a little writeup on mine here (http://blackdogswoodshop.blogspot.com/2014/08/travisher-is-finished.html).

thanks. Im seriously considering making a travisher. It looks really doable.
thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

[paul cottingham]

Paul- My gutter adze is an almost perfect U shape with slightly wider tips and a curve from cutting edge to poll. It is similar to the LV gutter adze but with a longer distance poll to cutting edge and with a longer handle. Handle length is important since the preferred method of work is with feet about shoulder width apart and on each edge of the seat blank holding it in place. You swing between your legs and too short a handle will cause a nightmare of a sore back.
I've never used the LV pull shave so I really can't offer you any advice positive or negative. I've no doubt though that it is of the normal commendable LV quality.

Dave, does your gutter adze have as much cuvature as the LV offering? Its a very pronounced "U" which makes sense. Also, is your sharpened on the inside of the blade, or the outside?
thanks for your time,

[paul cottingham]

Regarding the sculptor's adze show in the original post, I would not recommend it unless you are willing to make a number of modifications and accommodations. I got one as a gift since I was starting out making carved bowls and it was thought I could use this to make faster rough work. Right out of the box, this adze, made by Stubai, was not very good quality nor was it well designed. About the only thing good I could say is that it wasn't very expensive compared to other ones available.

For those interested in what the problems were: The handle is narrow and far too long considering the strike radius of the curved blade, limiting the angles you can cut. The head is light, so you have to swing it hard to get a decent amount of wood cut (especially end grain). The mortise for the handle (in the head) is pretty small, so they added a hollow pin to hold the head on instead of a wedge. It lasted one 30-minute chopping session on a poplar bowl. The curved side of the blade is, as mentioned, beveled only on the inside, making it want to dig into the "scoop" cut. The flat axe-head side was pretty dull and since the head is so light, you can't generate much of a cut with it. Its dullness was a good thing when the head broke off the handle and bounced back at me. The radius of the curve across the edge of the blade was way off - one corner was bent down at a much more acute curve than the other and the blade was ground straight across (instead of being cambered) so it had thin, weak corners that dug in and twisted the head during the cut. Oh, and the silly blue paint rubs off on the wood you're cutting.

So, in order to make it a useable tool, I made a thicker, shorter handle - about 2/3 the original length. Then I ground a flare in the top of the mortise of the head so I could use wedges to hold the handle on. The curved side of the blade was reground with a double bevel and given a camber and rounded corners. The straight blade got a shallower bevel and a slight camber as well, and I sanded back some of the blue paint. As it is, it works better, but still only "OK" - I do most bowl roughing with timber framing gouges (like 2-inch wide ones) until I can find a nice heavy antique bowl or cooper's adze. I use this adze for intermediate shaping after the gouge work to "blend" the gouge cuts before final shaping with scorps and knives.

Karl

Thank you for the detailed answer, Karl. I think the Stubai is out now! Any opinion on the gutter adze LV carries?
Would you think a number 3 1" gouge might work as well, albeit perhaps more slowly?
thanks for your time, i really appreciate it.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Paul- My adze is has the bevel on the inside. I'll take a couple of pix tonight when I get home. Unfortunately the maker, Ray Larsen, of Genuine Forgery passed away a few years ago and his tools are no longer available.

[paul cottingham]

Thanks, Dave.

[Dave Anderson NH]

These 2 pictures are of the Ray Larsen Genuine Forgery gutter adze I bought from that crusty old Swamp Yankee over 20 years ago. He was a fantastic guy and also did custom tools to order. Ray also wrote a smithing book which by now is probably out of print.

[Dave Anderson NH]

This is the standard scorp that Ray Larsen sold. Also bought 20+ years ago.

[paul cottingham]

One further question. How about this combination: #3 and #4 gouges for roughing out, combined with a Veritas pullshave for finishing up? And sanding and scraping, of course. I might add a auriou chairmakers rasp.
Thanks again.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Paul- These are the drawknives I own and use. From the top descending they are:

James Swan & Co. 10"
Genuine Forgery by Ray Larsen
C. J. Kimball & Son
Unknown maker

I inherited all but the Genuine Forgery. All work well though the Swan is perhaps my favorite.

[paul cottingham]

These 2 pictures are of the Ray Larsen Genuine Forgery gutter adze I bought from that crusty old Swamp Yankee over 20 years ago. He was a fantastic guy and also did custom tools to order. Ray also wrote a smithing book which by now is probably out of print.

That is a mighty nice looking adze, my friend.

[paul cottingham]

This is the standard scorp that Ray Larsen sold. Also bought 20+ years ago.

Nice. Now i think i am going to have to own a scorp.

[paul cottingham]

Paul- These are the drawknives I own and use. From the top descending they are:

James Swan & Co. 10"
Genuine Forgery by Ray Larsen
C. J. Kimball & Son
Unknown maker

I inherited all but the Genuine Forgery. All work well though the Swan is perhaps my favorite.

Nice. How many (and which ones) do you use regularly?

[Karl Andersson]

Hi Paul, looks like you're moving away from chisels, but if you do use them for shaping, in my opinion, a number 3 would be too shallow a radius for roughing - I use the flatter ones for smoothing. For roughing and shaping, I use a no. 7 bent gouge 1" plus some 2" straight gouges; numbers 7 and 9. I'd think for a chair seat, you'd want to go wider than 1" - it helps blend your gouge cuts prior to smoothing with a finer chisel or scorp. The more curved radii really help hog waste out for bowls - they concentrate the mallet strikes on a narrow area of wood fibers and cut/ pop them out in a controlled "scoop". Not sure that you'd need that much waste removal with chair seats - looks like plenty of guys have experience to share for chairs specifically.
Karl

[Dave Anderson NH]

Paul- I probably use the Ray Larsen the most with the James Swan coming in a near second. The one I use the least is the smallest. All of my drawknives are sharpened with a bit of a back bevel. It is to some folks controversial, but I find that it allows me to enter and leave a cut very easily. I can literally make a scooping cut shaped like the top view of a canoe. If properly sharpened, a drawknife can make a cut with a finish as smooth as smoothing plane.

[paul cottingham]

Hi Paul, looks like you're moving away from chisels, but if you do use them for shaping, in my opinion, a number 3 would be too shallow a radius for roughing - I use the flatter ones for smoothing. For roughing and shaping, I use a no. 7 bent gouge 1" plus some 2" straight gouges; numbers 7 and 9. I'd think for a chair seat, you'd want to go wider than 1" - it helps blend your gouge cuts prior to smoothing with a finer chisel or scorp. The more curved radii really help hog waste out for bowls - they concentrate the mallet strikes on a narrow area of wood fibers and cut/ pop them out in a controlled "scoop". Not sure that you'd need that much waste removal with chair seats - looks like plenty of guys have experience to share for chairs specifically.
Karl

Karl, im actually moving towards gouges, i like tools that can multitask. A no.7 bent and a number 7 and no. 9 straight? I will play with the borrowed 7 i have today. Thanks!

[paul cottingham]

Paul- I probably use the Ray Larsen the most with the James Swan coming in a near second. The one I use the least is the smallest. All of my drawknives are sharpened with a bit of a back bevel. It is to some folks controversial, but I find that it allows me to enter and leave a cut very easily. I can literally make a scooping cut shaped like the top view of a canoe. If properly sharpened, a drawknife can make a cut with a finish as smooth as smoothing plane.

Im already noticing that with the two drawknives i have, but one of them really needs to be reground, its 35 degrees, and i think would be much better at 30.
Thanks for the reply.

[paul cottingham]

How about these gouges, or a combination?
A #7 straight
A #7 bent
A 2" #3 straight
(a #11 straight maybe)
combined with a pullshave, do you think this combination of gouges would do the job? Any other ideas? I would love to be able to do this with as few tools as possible.

thanks again for indulging me here.

[paul cottingham]

I wound up buying a 1 in. no. 7, and a 1 in. No. 9 both straight. I may buy a No.7 bent gouge as well. There is at least a straight no. 5 or no. 3 in my future as well.
combined with the pullshave, and myspokeshaves, i am hoping this will work well for carving seats.

I would be grateful for any further comments.

[bill howes]

Karl, im actually moving towards gouges, i like tools that can multitask. A no.7 bent and a number 7 and no. 9 straight? I will play with the borrowed 7 i have today. Thanks!

Paul,I would start with the number 7 straight as wide as you can get. I use an old pexto firmer gouge 1 1/2 inch. The curved gouge I use as standby is the lv gouge they sell for notching logs. My thinking is that you are roughing out and want to remove lots of wood. It therefore has to be a chisel you can use a mallet with
Bill

[paul cottingham]

Paul,I would start with the number 7 straight as wide as you can get. I use an old pexto firmer gouge 1 1/2 inch. The curved gouge I use as standby is the lv gouge they sell for notching logs. My thinking is that you are roughing out and want to remove lots of wood. It therefore has to be a chisel you can use a mallet with
Bill

Thanks, Bill. I bought a straight #7, and a #9 and going to play with them today. I think a bent #7 will be good as well, for hogging. I may also pick up a #3 and a #5 for finishing as well.

I'm going to play with it today.

Paul

[Karl Andersson]

Hi Paul, sorry I didn't get to the computer yesterday; I think you're on the right track and should be able to do well with the chisels you've bought. You may find 1" to be a little narrow, but that just means more cuts to do a larger shape. You mentioned possibly getting a 2" #3; in the #3 or #5, I'd recommend that width so you have basically a paring gouge at a relatively flat curve - good for final shaping before smoothing. If the brand you're buying makes fishtail gouges in large sizes (Pfiel does), you may want to get the #3/ #5 with a fishtail blade; this helps when cutting inside cross-grain curves (like the butt ends of the chair seat scallops); instead of just cutting down across the grain, you can get a cleaner radiused cut by putting one corner of the gouge blade in the center of your cut and rotating the rest of the blade around it while shear- cutting about 1/4 of the radius (I hope this translates well). You CAN do the same thing with a straight gouge; it's just easier with the tapered fishtail blade.

The bent gouge for hogging is a good idea - especially if you think you might want to do bowls or boxes later - it helps especially when carving the transition between sidewall and bottom of a dished surface.
Karl

[Mike Holbrook]

Drew Langsner at Country Workshops imports a whole range of chair making tools. Adze, Axes, scorps, drawknives, froe, large assortment of small up to .extra heavy duty gouges...They are not cheap tools but they are very well made by hand.

[paul cottingham]

Yeah, i would get stuff from Drew, except that i dont have a credit card fro those kinds of costs. So i try to only buy stuff locally, where i can pay cash.
if it wasnt for this "rule" i would already own one of Drews drawknives, one of his adzes, and one of his scorps, oh and one of his axes as well. I would really like a scorp, but no one local sells one. So, for now, i will use gouges,i guess.

[paul cottingham]

As an aside, anyone have an opinion on these little hewing hatchets sold by LV? I know it looks like a toy, but it does have a single bevel, so it may be good for hewing.