Poll - what angle do you have on your favorite bowl gouge?

[Roger Chandler]

I am thinking about doing a little experimentation on bowl gouge angles. I thought I would ask some of you experienced turners what angle you have on the grind of your "go to" bowl gouge. [nose angle] and how far back do you sweep the wings?

Also, could you explain why you like that angle best [basically, how does it help your cut?]

Thanks everyone! :)

[Dale Gillaspy]

My bowl gouge has about a 60 degree bevel, give or take a few degrees. I don't get hung up on numbers too much.

[Paul Williams]

I have two 1/2 inch bowl gouges. The one I use most is 60 degrees with fairly short wings. The other is 45 degrees with pretty long wings. As a former carver I have a tendency to grind smaller (more pointy) edges. I just recently reground the first gouge to the 60 degree angle. I thinkit is "stronger" and holds the edge a little better, but the lower angle cuts soft wood cleaner.

[Roger Chandler]

I am surprised at only 2 responses to this question. Perhaps a lot of turners do not know what their gouge angle is, or have never thought about why they have the angle they do, or why it works well for them. :confused:

[Peter Fabricius]

Two favorites, Roger
Both are 1/2", a Thompson 55 degrees with about 1/2" wings, the other is a DWay and is a 55 degree bottom feeder.
I sure like the new steel and the CBN 180 wheel.
Grinding with the Wolverine jig and the Varigrind set as per Doug a Thompson directions for the swept back grind. The traditional grind is done on the platform and just rotated to get the straight across grind.
Good luck with yours,
Peter F.

[Roger Chandler]

Thanks Peter!

[Wally Dickerman]

I have several gouges. My most often used is a Hamlet 1/2 in 2060 ground at 45 deg. My 14 in and 3/8 in (all UK sizes) are also ground at 45 deg. My 5/8 Thompson gouge is ground at 55 deg. They all have a modified side grind

I find that 45 deg is very user friendly for almost all cuts. I use my 1/4 in gouge a lot as a detail gouge.

When the bowl gouge first came on the market in around 1980 they all came ground straight across and were ground at 45 deg. For several years that's the way everybody used them. I can remember in a Fine Woodworking article in about 1985 a picture of a fingernail grind. I, along with just about everybody else quickly changed to the more usable grind. A little later the Ellsworth side grind became popular.

[Roger Chandler]

I have several gouges. My most often used is a Hamlet 1/2 in 2060 ground at 45 deg. My 14 in and 3/8 in (all UK sizes) are also ground at 45 deg. My 5/8 Thompson gouge is ground at 55 deg. They all have a modified side grind

I find that 45 deg is very user friendly for almost all cuts. I use my 1/4 in gouge a lot as a detail gouge.

When the bowl gouge first came on the market in around 1980 they all came ground straight across and were ground at 45 deg. For several years that's the way everybody used them. I can remember in a Fine Woodworking article in about 1985 a picture of a fingernail grind. I, along with just about everybody else quickly changed to the more usable grind. A little later the Ellsworth side grind became popular.

Thank you Wally.......that is precisely the info I am looking for. I have just turned one of my 3/4" gouges [U flute] into a bottom feeder with a 60 degree bevel......most of my 5/8" and 1/2" gouges are at 47 degree with some sweep on the wings, but I have wondered if the 45 degree might be just a bit better, but I am only off by 2 degrees, and I am not sure any noticeable difference could be discerned.

I also saw Stuart Batty as our featured demo at last years Virginia symposium advocate a 40/40 bevel [he does it free hand] and he says "float the bevel" and not "ride the bevel." I was also pondering the possible advantage of that 40 degree vs. the common 45 degree.

Someone with your experience would likely be able to explain the benefit if there is any? :)

[Wally Dickerman]

Roger, no, 2 deg makes no difference. There is no "best" grind. Gouge grinds are mainly a personal preference thing and depends on how you use the gouge. Handle high, low, pull cut, push cut, etc. ... Yes, Batty uses 40 deg. Last I heard Ellsworth and Jordan use 60 deg. Do some experimenting and find what works best for you.

[Reed Gray]

Well, for my favorite gouges, I use a 45/45 bevel and sweep. I found the 40/40 that Stuart uses to be too pointy for my tastes. These (I have them in several sizes) are best for the outside and down the inside walls. I use 60 and 70 degree bevels on my transition and BOB (bottom of bowl) gouges, and several variations of flute shapes from half circle to fluteless. I don't really have any use for swept back wings as I do all of my roughing and shear scraping with scrapers. 60 degree bevels are kind of a 'does every thing fairly well' type of tool. Some times the more specialized tools work better.

robo hippy

[Dennis Ford]

My two most used bowl gouges are about 45 deg bevel and swept back about as far as the tool diameter in a convex profile when viewed from the side. I have one that is 40 deg or a little less; it is swept back more than the tool diameter and a couple of bowl gouges with 65 deg or so bevel angles with "conventional" grinds (swept back much less than the tool diameter). I use the first two for roughing, shear scraping and most finish cuts; the others for special cuts.

[Prashun Patel]

My angle is about 45. The precision of the angle doesn't matter much. I do like a swept back grind. I find it allows me a less 'nosey' approach down and through the inside of a bowl. This leads to a cleaner and smoother cut for me.

[Peter Fabricius]

Denis,
A comment on your description of the sweep back shape, you said "a convex profile when viewed from the side".
One of the professional turners, I think it was Lyle Jamison, that maintains the side profile of the sweep back should be flat, level from tip to end of sweep when viewed from the side.... He claimed that the convex profile is "easier to get a catch". So, I have always tried for a straight grind of the sweep back portion, and no catches, so I will keep doing that.
Just food for thought and comments from other members for their experiences.
thanks
Peter F.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

[QUOTE=Peter Fabricius;2448881]
So, I have always tried for a straight grind of the sweep back portion, and no catches, so I will keep doing that.
QUOTE]
No catches? Wow. I seen Mike M get a catch....... :)

[Scott Hackler]

I don't own a protractor or degree finder...so... My bowl gouges are all at the same angle and are not as pointy as a detail gouge, but not as blunt as a scraper grind or a bottom feeder gouge I use a lot. :)

[Reed Gray]

I have heard of two different wing profiles that turners use. One, is like what Lyle uses, which is straight from the top of the flute/wing, to the center of the nose. The other is more pretty much straight, but then curves down a bit at the nose, making a convex type wing. Doug Thompson mentioned to me at the Symposium this year that having a slightly convex type side profile makes his V gouge act more like a parabolic fluted gouge. I am still pondering that one. I am still pondering the differences between the parabolic, and V and U flutes (oh my!!!). Some times when sharpening, I end up with the flutes having a slight concave profile as well. It still cuts, and the next time I sharpen it, I grind a bit more off the nose or wing to get it back the way it is supposed to be. Does the convex wing contribute to more catches??? Well, I don't understand how. But, I always cut with the gouge rolled over to 9 or 3 o'clock, and that way the wing that is closest to the wood can not catch.

robo hippy

[Peter Fabricius]

Interesting, exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping for.
If the wing is convex, is there not more metal sticking out and a possibility of digging in??? Even when using the wing like Reed describes the convex shape is out further than a straight wing.
In a sheer scrape the straight wing should give a smoother surface since there is a longer piece of edge in touch with the wood.
I sure would like to hear from Lyle Jamison.
Peter F.

[Bob Bergstrom]

I sharpen free hand and use Glenn Lucas style with my Wolverine platform tilted almost vertical. This style allows freedom to pivot, rotate or slide the gouge to the desired grind. Most of my bowl gouges are about 55 degrees, but that changes with the kind of wood or type of bowl. The wings are ground back and either straight or concave. I find a concave wing actually conforms to the curve of the outside of the bowl. A shorter convex curve is a better cutter on the inside of the bowl. Here is a couple pics of what I have found the best shear cutter on the outside of a bowl. This is a 5/8" spindle gouge with the wings ground back about 2". The shallow flute seems to take a very fine cut with the shavings like fluff. Ray Key showed this at a demo years ago and it has saved me a ton of sanding time. It performs much like a cabinet scraper.

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[Reed Gray]

Well, a convex wing will have slightly more surface area, that is a given fact. I can't see how that contributes to catches though. The main factor, as far as I am concerned is tool/cutting edge presentation. If your flutes are pointing more up, and you are cutting more with the wings, then you are cutting with the unbalanced part of the tool, where if the flutes are up, you should be cutting with the bottom of the flute, which is directly over the tool rest, and can not tip over. I do need to do a video on this. Other than that, for shear cuts, the higher the shear angle, the less resistance there is to the cut, and the cleaner the cut is. With Bob's flute above, you can drop the handle really low, and get a 60 to 80 degree shear angle. I can do the same with my swept back scrapers. Much harder to do on the inside of the bowl, so I use a bull nose ) shaped scraper and cut with the lower third of the edge, and can get a 60 plus shear angle on the inside. I don't know how that can be done with a gouge, other than the fluteless gouge from Doug, or a spindle/detail shallow flute gouge with the same ) nose profile, but then it is a bevel rubbing cut, and not a shear scrape.

robo hippy

[ALAN HOLLAR]

General workhorses are 3/8 and 1/2 sidegrinds. I have several traditional grind gouges in both sizes with bevels at 35, 46 60, and 70 degrees for dealing with problem woods, or for bottoming work on deep bowls with smaller diameters

[Dave Cullen]

Mine are still close to whatever the creators shipped them as. One is by Thompson, the other is D-Way. I've never measured them.