New Turner Questions

[Justin Peters]

Ok, so the wife and I have finally had time to take some classes in woodworking, with a concentration in turning. While we are planning on eventually setting up a whole shop, right now our priority is getting the turning equipment.

:confused:

So, After much research, I seem to have narrowed down the lathe to either the Jet 1236 or the Jet 1442. I want a bit more capacity than the mini/midi lathes can handle, but I don't know if the extra 2" swing and 6" between centers can justify the $400ish difference in cost between the two. Does anyone have experience with either of these lathes that they can comment on?

I am also going to purchase the drill press soon, since I will need that not only to drill out the pen blanks and such, but I will need it in the future as well. I am having trouble deciding between a floor model Jet and a benchtop model. The spindle travel is not too much different on them, and neither is the price. Does it follow then that I should get the larger floor model, or does it really not have much more usefullness down the road?

I obviously also need to get some tools. I have researched some previous threads on this and I still am not sure of what to get. I think we will both start out with pens and general spindle work to get our skills up to par before we move on to turning bowls, since we both had a lot of problems with "catches" or "dig-ins" when we were taking the bowl classes. As such, I don't think I need any bowl gouges yet, more likely just spindle gouges, a parting tool, and maybe a skew. I have seen many folks here comment that they use skews for their spindle work, but in the pen class and spindle class we took, we never really used the skew. I guess the most confusing part of tools for me is what size tools I should get (e.g. 1/2" spindle gouge, 3/8"spindle gouge, 1/4" spindle gouge, etc...) I don't really know what is appropriate for various projects...the classes didn't really cover tool selection, so I could use some advice.

Any help is appreciated.

-J-

[Jim Becker]

No question...of the two, the 1442 is the one you want. The 1236 is a very old design and the 1442 offers a sturdier machine with updated features.

[Cecil Arnold]

While I've only been turning a couple of years I still consider myself a beginner, however of the two lathes you are considering I would recommend the 1442, even though I don't think you will use the full 40" spindel capicity. I had a 1442, liked it very much, and replaced it with a PM3520a which I like even better. The advantage of the 1442 is the drive, which lets you change speed much easier than the 1236. Speed change and control were the big factors (along with increased swing capicity) of the PM 3520. IMHO you will move to bowls very quickly unless you are really into pens and such, so don't write off the need for a bowl gouge too quickly. For ppen work you might be able to get by with one of the minature sets which are not too costly. I see you are in Houston, so I would also recommend that you visit The Cutting Edge, located on the Sam Houston Tollway near US 59 and talk to Steve LeGrew. Steve is a very knowledgable turner and will help you choose t heturning tools you need.

One of the things Steve told me when I made the first venture into turning was that they should give you the lathe, as the extras are where the major costs lie. He turned out to be truthful. I don't work for or have any interest in The Cutting Edge, other than being a customer. Hope you find this helpful

[Don Baer]

Justin,
One thing you will find you need very soon will be a band saw. Especialy when you start doing bowls. It will make preparing blanks a lot easier.

[Silas Smith]

Having bought the 1442 from Cecil (thanks again, the divorce papers were submitted by my wife after having seen my latest accessory tool purchase total) I would highly recommend it over the 1236. Beside the extra clearance (2" is a lot in my world) you would be getting a much heavier and robust machine. I would be surprised if you needed the extra length though. $400 is a small price to pay for the feeling that your lathe will be able to let you do what you want for a long time. Don't forget a good chuck and the wolverine sharpening system along with your chisels.

[Justin Peters]

The 1236 is a very old design.

How so? What are the main differences other than swing/distance between centers? It looks like both adjust speed the same way, or using a lever anyways.


Justin,
One thing you will find you need very soon will be a band saw. Especialy when you start doing bowls. It will make preparing blanks a lot easier.

I know I will need one of these too...I need to hold off on a few things though, and I was hoping to postpone that...at least for a short while. However...for future research sake...what should I be looking for in a bandsaw?


Don't forget a good chuck and the wolverine sharpening system along with your chisels.

A friend of mine raves about the Tormek, so I already have one of those on order. I figured I would get some of the ancillary stuff prior to the actual lathe, as it would drive me crazy having it in the garage, and no other tools to put it to use!

I'd also still like more advice on recommended tool sizes and the drill press.

Thanks
-J-

[Dennis Peacock]

Justin,

I have a 1236 and you will have to become really good at fixing the variable speed drive assembly on the 1236. It will become stiff and hard to adjust the speed and will require complete disassembly, cleaning, and relubricating for it to operate smoothly again. The 1236 is lite on it's feet and you'd need to add balast to the lathe to make it more stable. I would highly recommend the 1442 lathe over the 1236. The headstock and tailstock are more robust on the 1442 and you'll get better service out of the 1442 over time. DAMHIKT!!!

[Dennis Peacock]

Justin,

I also have a Tormek for sharpening/gringing my turning tools. They work very nicely and do put a nice edge on the tools. However, I have since gotten a Wolverine setup and the speed in which I can freshen up or grind a new edge on my tools is very quick. In just my personal opinion, the finer edge put on by the Tormek does provide a better and longer cutting edge on the tool. This is just something that I have noted since using both the Tormek and Wolverine/grinder for a while now. Don't get me wrong here. The wolverine setup is a great setup and you have a lot of abilities with this setup. It's kinda like......some folks will hone their turning tools while others just grind and turn. I really like BOTH setups. :D

[Don Baer]

I know I will need one of these too...I need to hold off on a few things though, and I was hoping to postpone that...at least for a short while. However...for future research sake...what should I be looking for in a bandsaw?
-J-

Justin,
Thats a tough one to answer. I know what I looked for and that was the most for the least. I got lucky and was able to find a very good used 16" floor mounted saw for $250.00. I wasn't in the market for one yet but I was at a local wood supplier and found it posted on a bulletin board. It has an amazing amount of resaw capacity (16"). I am sure I'll never outgrow this saw. Now that I am finaly getting some room in my shop I'll be moving it in and setting it up.
I would stay away from the smaller bench top types especially the ones that use three pulley since they don't track very well. I'd look for something 14" or bigger. Look for one with a good guide system, easy to tension/retension the blade.

[Mike Ramsey]

I don't have a Tormek but I can speak for the Wolverine system, I like it a lot, it's simple and easy to use, also a lot cheaper than Tormek. Our turning club President has a Tormek and a Wolverine, he rarely uses the Tormek.

[Keith Nielsen]

Justin,

I'm like you still on a budget but in need of nice toys to play with. I started out with little or no clue what to buy. I would suggest the following. The 1442 is a great machine. I have bought alot of Jet tools and they seem to be worth every penny. I've also found this great place that does not charge freight on there lathes. Its at http://www.southern-tool.com/store/jet_jwl-1442_lathe.html
Now if you compare this lathe to say a Grizzly you get more HP in the jet than grizzly's biggest lathe. http://www.grizzly.com/products/items-list.cfm?key=560000&gid=512B15D5-82C1-4F46-AB2E-9838BF8083FE&site=grizzly when I started I could not afford a band saw either. Therefore Chainsaws or even a bow saw will work for bowls. Your just cutting of the big corners anyway and it saves on the tool sharpening. For turning tools at least to start with go to Harbor freight. for 36.00 you can get a nice beginners set. Then spend 80.00 for an Elsworth deep bowl gouge.(its the one thing the beginners set does not come with. For a drill press I went with Harbor Freight, Best money I ever spent I optioned for the big floor model at 200.00 it has been worth every dime. It has depth stop and variable speeds. It holds the really small bits up to the really large bits. Its also a #2 morris taper so I can take the chuck from the drill to the lathe for end drilling with the tail stock.

I hope that answers some of your questions
Good luck
Keith

[Jay Kilpatrick]

Ok, so the wife and I have finally had time to take some classes in woodworking, with a concentration in turning. While we are planning on eventually setting up a whole shop, right now our priority is getting the turning equipment.
***BIG SNIP***
Any help is appreciated.

-J-

Justin,
To answer your question in short: Get the 1442... but you're not getting off that easily.

My true opinion is to get 2 mini's for your situation. You ***and your wife*** will want to turn, and watching someone else have fun isn't all that fun for the watcher. The mini's will provide excellent service for value and one can be sold for little relative loss when the addition of the new big lathe is eminent. You might be happy with the 1442, but turning items at 14" on the lathe will prove less fun than on its big brother the 1642 or cousin the PM 3520a/b. Since the LOYL and you already enjoy turning, it just seems that this would be a preferable step for entry into the craft.

Now, for the 1236. Its a sufficient machine, I worked on it (turning as well as repair and servicing) for nearly 3 years. It worked because I dealt with its shortcomings. Let's start at the headstock end and work our way toward the tailstock. There's a platform for outboard turning, outboard of the headstock. It was a great place to sit my chuck as long as the piece I was working on was in balance. Otherwise, it collected dust. I had previously tried out the outboard attachment on another 1236 and didn't want to repeat the scared feeling I had during that initial attempt.

The headstock:
The handwheel has no hole for the knockout rod, so you will get tired of spinning it on and off to remove your spur center. Having used it so little I seem to remember that the threads are such that it isn't helpful removing faceplates/chucks either. It unthreads in that direction of rotation IIRC.

Reeves drive limitations have already been mentioned in this thread, no need to rehash.
Allignment between the drive spindle and the tailstock ram is a constant battle! If its correct on the x axis, the y axis is off (at least on my former lathe). I shimmed it, and it worked. A double ended #2 Morse Taper is a good accessory for this operation, but it doesn't guarantee success.

The stand is adequate for holding the ballast *you will eventually add as your items get larger in diameter.* Even a small difference in concentricity of a medium size (6"+) piece of work will wobble a 1236 with no ballast.

The ways on the machine I received were out of flat by .03 and not parallel. Luckily my brother knows a machinist who took care of that for a case of beer.

The banjo lock is adequate, but it will move even after you tweak the grip to get as tight as you can without breaking it. The toolrest is cast iron, I've snapped one as have many others who may want to chime in.

The tailstock is a poor design. The lock is only attached to one side putting excessive stress on that point of machanical interaction. I had two tailstocks fail (break) at the lever hole IIRC.

I think that's about it for the 1236 oppinion/fact finding from my end. But I surely used it with reckless abandon and enjoyed having it. It has shortcomings, but I worked with the machine to a happy ending. I'm sure the LOML would say the same of me.

I'm out of time, but hopefully others will let you in on the other stuff you'll find you "need" to provide more joy from turning... faceplates, chuck, chainsaw, bandsaw, tons of sandpaper, gouges, scrapers, other cutting tools as required, have fun and good luck!

[John Hart]

I'd have to put in another vote for a bandsaw. Although they are invaluable for preparing bowl blanks, they also save you a lot of money on pen blanks. Nice burl blanks can get expensive (especially when you want to buy a lot of them) but for the price of a large burl that will produce a large number of blanks, you can save as much as 75% on wood alone. The saw pays for itself in a very short period of time. Worth looking into IMHO. :)

[John Shuk]

I can't speak to the 1442. I have a 1236. It is ok but it is not really going to be a serious machine for you in the future. If the money difference is the issue I'd rather see you get a Jet mini and when the time comes to upgrade have 2 lathes. I'd have to say that the 1442 would be a good hedge.

[Justin Peters]

Well, I am certainly glad I asked for your advice. It seems that the general concensus is to go ahead and go for the 1442, and that it is worth the extra money.

A few people have commented on the drive/pulley setup on the 1236. I went to Jet's website and downloaded the manuals for both the 1236 and the 1442. The operation of the speed control is the same for both lathes. The diagram also looks similar. Does this mean that the drive system for the 1442 has problems like the 1236, or is it somehow different?

It also seems that I should get a generic set of HSS tools as a kit to start. I don't think I have seen any harbor freight tools in the catalogs, but I have seen some by Benjamin's best and others. (I have three catalogs available, one from PSI, one from woodturner's supply, and one from Packard). Would any of these be sufficient since they are HSS, or is there more that I should look for either in the handle or the tool itself?

I'll try to make it to The Cutting Edge soon...it's a little south of me.

Still have lots of questions...
-J-

[Don Baer]

Here you go


47066-3VGA (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47066)

www.harborfreight.com (http://www.harborfreight.com)

$35.99

[Jim Becker]

The Benjamin's Best tools from PSI are the one thing I ever bought from them that I actually like. Good tools. Packad's house brand tools are also excellent and I have several of them in my rack...they are made by a major brand manufacturer (Hamlet or Taylor, I believe) and are really good values, IMHO. I also have a lot of Sorby tools and they are competitively priced.

But for a starter set, I'd choose the Benjamin's best, if you want to do a set. (The problem with sets is they tend to be all spindle turning oriented the majority of the time so you still need to buy a decent bowl gouge in addition. (Start with a 3/8" bowl gouge to learn) For sharpening, the Woodcraft slow speed 8" grinder package with the OneWay Wolverine system is the way to go for turning tools. Tormek is nice, but when you get to the point that you are sharpening every three or four minutes...the higher speed grinder is preferable. IMHO, of course, once again.

[John Timberlake]

I have used the 1236 and own the 1442. There is no comparison between the two. The 1236 is light weight and lower power. It is fine if you want to turn pens, but the 1442 will give you a lot more pleasure in your turning. When I got mine, it got the 20" bed extension and just completed a mahogany four poster bed for my son on it. I was able to turn the 78" posts (not counting the finials) in two parts. The weight allowed me to turn it much more smoothly and sand less than I could have done on the 1236. I highly recommend the 1442 for larger spindle turning as well as bowls.


John Timberlake