Makers Mark

[Stewie Simpson]

The die to stamp my brass backs arrived. 7 tonne of hydraulic pressure was needed to achieve a clear imprint on both lines of text. Nice craftsmanship from Chalco.

I still need to make a purpose jig before I can use it for my saw making work.

Stewie;

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/chalco%20stamp/DSC_0540_zpslctl2hka.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/chalco%20stamp/DSC_0540_zpslctl2hka.jpg.html)

[Derek Cohen]

Stewie, I have mentioned this on the Oz forum where you posted, that you appear to have an Owner's Mark rather than a Maker's Mark.

The original thread originated on SMC, which is here: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?207012-Stamps-for-marking-wood

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Malcolm Schweizer]

That's very nice, and 7 tons is a lot of force. Wow.

Derek, you are wrong. THIS is a Maker's Mark:
317940

[Stewie Simpson]

Hello Derek. Read this and you might learn something.

HAND STAMPS

Stamps can be divided into two main types

INTAGLIO Where the letters are cut into the face sunk (as in stamping coins)
INCUSE Where the face is cut in relief.

Different types of makers marks. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=makers+marks&biw=1280&bih=563&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CCgQsARqFQoTCN_D-ez88MYCFRYakgodD10CcQ

[Derek Cohen]

I think that you can use any stamp for a sawback. Apology for the confusion - I was thinking of planemaker stamps.

Planemaker stamps according to Chris Schwarz and Mazzaglia Tools:

http://mazzagliatools.com/BlumStamp.html

http://blog.lostartpress.com/2008/02/28/als-ik-kan-as-best-i-can/

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Stewie Simpson]

Derek. Not all stamps. The Intaglio Lettering (shown below) is suitable for marking end grain on wood, not a hard metal surface.

http://s3.spanglefish.com/s/18131/pictures/big/marks%20061.jpg

[george wilson]

You can get beautiful stamps,with ANY type font you desire,made by Buckeye Engraving Co.. That is where I got all my G,Wilson and other stamps made. You actually talk to the owner,who also helps make the stamps.

I prefer letters with serifs myself. Once you get a stamp made,you can order a matching one 10 years later,and they will make a perfectly matching one for you,regardless of the words you want the stamp to produce. We got several stamps made when we made those folding rules. They matched perfectly with the older,original name stamps we got made before.

They will make the stamps at sharp angles for cutting neatly into wood,or more blunt angles(still sharp),for stamping metal. My stamps have lasted many years,and the G.WILSON one most of the time is used to stamp tool steel(annealed,of course,but still harder on stamps).

I know one person(maybe in Australia) had a problem with Buckeye,but I have dealt with them several times with no problem.

Stewie,if you have a hydraulic press,you can use that stamp shown just above for pressing into brass saw backs. I'd certainly do it BEFORE folding them! Tyzack(or someone) used a much larger sunken mark on their saw backs.

I made my 50 ton press with a 50 ton Chinese jack. Built a very heavy steel "cage" to set it in. I am sure I posted pictures here of coining the Dolphin brooch/necklace here.It has been a very useful thing to have.

I have a 100 ton Enerpac jack and a hydraulic hand pump @ 10,000 # pressure,if I ever get round to building a super strong cage to operate it in. But,those things are HEAVY!!

[Derek Cohen]

Derek. Not all stamps. The Intaglio Lettering (shown below) is suitable for marking end grain on wood, not a hard metal surface.


Stewie, yes, that is the case, as it has been for 100s of years. But I choose not to use one like that on my tools and furniture since the force required is scary.

Read the thread I linked to earlier on for the opinion of others.

George, I continue to be very happy with the stamp from Buckeye (whom you pointed me to). I am now getting them to make me one that says "G. Wilson" :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Maurice Ungaro]

That's very nice, and 7 tons is a lot of force. Wow.

Derek, you are wrong. THIS is a Maker's Mark:
317940
Malcolm, you and I think alike! That's the first thing I though of when I saw the title. Yes, I did grow up in Kentucky, and Makers was always in the liquor cabinet.

[Frederick Skelly]

Looks good Stewie!

Hey, my ignorance of manufacturing is showing..... But do you stamp the brass back before or after folding it? If after, how do you keep from crimping it flat when using all that pressure? (Purely a curiousity question.)

Regards,
Fred

[Stewie Simpson]

Hi Fred. If I were using folded backs I would be stamping the metal prior to folding as recommended by George. I am using slotted backs with my backsaws. I plan to stamp the hard back after the slot has been filled by the saw plate.

regards Stewie;

[Stewie Simpson]

Stewie, yes, that is the case, as it has been for 100s of years. But I choose not to use one like that on my tools and furniture since the force required is scary.

Read the thread I linked to earlier on for the opinion of others.

George, I continue to be very happy with the stamp from Buckeye (whom you pointed me to). I am now getting them to make me one that says "G. Wilson" :)

Regards from Perth

Derek


Hi Derek. I can only suggest you do your homework on the subject.

regards Stewie;

[Phil Mueller]

Very nice Stewie.
If you haven't already, you may want to register/buy that domain name for when the time comes to launch your million dollar, world famous tool business!

[Stewie Simpson]

Very nice Stewie.
If you haven't already, you may want to register/buy that domain name for when the time comes to launch your million dollar, world famous tool business!

Hi Phil. Already taken care of. No plans to get too serious with my tool making work. I am enjoying retirement too much.

Stewie;

[Maurice Ungaro]

Hi Derek. I can only suggest you do your homework on the subject.

regards Stewie;
Boys, boys...let's not get into any "thunder down under" .........

[george wilson]

Frankly,I have wondered how the 18th. C. plane makers managed to make such DEEP intaglio stamps on the front ends of their planes,without breaking the wood into the escapements. I have seen many really deep stampings on those old planes.

It has been suggested that they soaked the front ends of their planes in water first. But,I never saw any evidence of water marking-unless the surfaces were subsequently planed off.

Perhaps the planes were stamped before the escapements were cut? Then,they could have whacked the stamps as hard as they wished to drive them into the wood like that.

Any response to my wanderings?

Derek: perhaps I should tell you the exact font my stamps use? Then you could copy them more accurately.:)

[Derek Cohen]

Derek: perhaps I should tell you the exact font my stamps use? Then you could copy them more accurately.:)

George, if you shared this with Chris V, then I may pry it out of him when he comes to stay in 2 weeks time. :)

Actually, I do intend to build a mitre saw for a MF 115 that I am restoring, and the handle for this saw will be based on your tenon saw handle. I could sign it with your name and no one would be the wiser :)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/saws/MF%20115%20Restoration/2a_zps5bd6bhyu.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Christian Thompson]

Frankly,I have wondered how the 18th. C. plane makers managed to make such DEEP intaglio stamps on the front ends of their planes,without breaking the wood into the escapements. I have seen many really deep stampings on those old planes.

It has been suggested that they soaked the front ends of their planes in water first. But,I never saw any evidence of water marking-unless the surfaces were subsequently planed off.

Perhaps the planes were stamped before the escapements were cut? Then,they could have whacked the stamps as hard as they wished to drive them into the wood like that.

Any response to my wanderings?

Derek: perhaps I should tell you the exact font my stamps use? Then you could copy them more accurately.:)

I just finished watching the Bill Anderson planemaking video and he soaks the toe in denatured alcohol before stamping. Maybe the 18th century guys did something similar.

[george wilson]

Don't be ridiculous. They didn't have denatured alcohol in the 18th. C.!!!:)

Derek,send it here and I'll stamp it for you!! I'm sure your workmanship would be just fine.:) But,Millers Falls tools always looked rather boring,at least for the most part.

[Stewie Simpson]

Hi George. The stamp was tested on 1.2mm brass over a hardened steel bed. It will be interesting to see if less pressure is required on 1/4" gauge brass back.

Stewie;

[Christian Thompson]

Don't be ridiculous. They didn't have denatured alcohol in the 18th. C.!!!:)

Derek,send it here and I'll stamp it for you!! I'm sure your workmanship would be just fine.:) But,Millers Falls tools always looked rather boring,at least for the most part.

Well... they had alcohol!

[Brian Holcombe]

Frankly,I have wondered how the 18th. C. plane makers managed to make such DEEP intaglio stamps on the front ends of their planes,without breaking the wood into the escapements. I have seen many really deep stampings on those old planes.

It has been suggested that they soaked the front ends of their planes in water first. But,I never saw any evidence of water marking-unless the surfaces were subsequently planed off.

Perhaps the planes were stamped before the escapements were cut? Then,they could have whacked the stamps as hard as they wished to drive them into the wood like that.

Any response to my wanderings?

Derek: perhaps I should tell you the exact font my stamps use? Then you could copy them more accurately.:)

George, there is a video of the dai maker Tanaka making plane bodies, and if I recall correctly, he stamped them prior to cutting them.

[george wilson]

Probably got the alcohol from Geo. Washington's distillery!! Was that single malt or double malt?

[Michael Ray Smith]

THIS is a Maker's Mark:
317940

That's what I thought this thread was going to be about. Imagine my disappointment.

[Matt Lau]

That's what I thought this thread was going to be about. Imagine my disappointment.

Me too! +10

[Stewie Simpson]

Me too! +10

In the end, neither Scotch nor Bourbon prevail in this centuries-old spirit battle. The real winner is you. And the loser is the cab driver that had to clean up your puke.

[Steve Voigt]

Frankly,I have wondered how the 18th. C. plane makers managed to make such DEEP intaglio stamps on the front ends of their planes,without breaking the wood into the escapements. I have seen many really deep stampings on those old planes.

It has been suggested that they soaked the front ends of their planes in water first. But,I never saw any evidence of water marking-unless the surfaces were subsequently planed off.

Perhaps the planes were stamped before the escapements were cut? Then,they could have whacked the stamps as hard as they wished to drive them into the wood like that.

Any response to my wanderings?



George, I don't know how they did it back then. One of those things that is probably lost knowledge at this point.

I have seriously considered getting a cheapo 1 ton press and just pressing the stamp in. Though, I'd have to figure out how to cut the front 4 inches off the base, so I could mount it at the front of a bench and get a long plane under it. Would need some kind of adjustable height fixture, too…this is getting complicated.

[Steve Voigt]

Oh, and Stewie, that is a nice looking stamp. Higher quality than the one I got, I think.

[Stewie Simpson]

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/chalco%20stamp/_DSC0003_zpswice51mr.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/chalco%20stamp/_DSC0003_zpswice51mr.jpg.html)

[Mike Schnorr]

Makers Mark in Wood?
318850

Couldn't resist!

Mike

[george wilson]

I am not sure that only 1 ton would yield enough pressure to drive 18th. C. style stamps into the wood. Those jacks are so cheap,I'd just get a 5 or 10 ton one.

I made a 50 ton coining press around a 50 ton bottle jack from Northern. So far,it hasn't failed. I used it to press the silver dolphin pin and the heart brooch I've posted here before. I still have to anneal and re press 2 or 3 times to get the silver fully pressed into the die. I have gotten a 100 ton Enerpac jack and a matching hydraulic cylinder to make a more powerful press,if I ever get to it. Those components get real heavy when building. And,I have to carry them upstairs.

[Pat Barry]

I apologize if the following is not correct because I'm going from recall of the images posted last week that I viewed at home. Here at work I can't actually see Stewie's images but I recall that the "li" in Australia looked a bit weak compared to the other letters / impressions. I wondered if that had to do with the stamp itself being non-uniform in height of the letters or if that area in the sawback just happened to be a bit thinner or non-planar. I thought it unlikely that there was actually a thin spot right there in the sawback and also did not know what the marking depth should be, so it would seem that the stamp was not made properly. If it were me, I would send the stamp back and have them correct the problem. If the stamp itself is made properly then I think you need more pressure to get the marking quality you should expect.

[Stewie Simpson]

Hi Pat. The "li" did show up slightly weaker than the rest of the script. If a definate trend emerges I will contact the supplier and source his opinion on how best to deal with it.

Regards Stewie;

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/Queensland%20Maple%20Handle/_DSC0005_zpsjcezzewy.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/Queensland%20Maple%20Handle/_DSC0005_zpsjcezzewy.jpg.html)

[Stewie Simpson]

Hi Pat. I checked the stamp text today for level height by rubbing it across some 2000grt wet & dry placed over a machine bed. A couple of passes highlighted the "li" was indeed slightly lower than the rest of the text. After 1/2 a dozen more passes, I achieved shine across all the text indicating to me that all the letters are now at common height. I will send an email to the supplier to inform him of my findings.

regards Stewie;

[george wilson]

Next stamp would look nicer if you had the supplier put serifs on the letters,Stewie,if possible.

A possible warning: Now that you have modified the stamp,they may not take it back.

[Stewie Simpson]

Hi George. I will keep the serifs in mind for next time. Appreciate your advise.

regards Stewie;

[Pat Barry]

Hi Pat. I checked the stamp text today for level height by rubbing it across some 2000grt wet & dry placed over a machine bed. A couple of passes highlighted the "li" was indeed slightly lower than the rest of the text. After 1/2 a dozen more passes, I achieved shine across all the text indicating to me that all the letters are now at common height. I will send an email to the supplier to inform him of my findings.

regards Stewie;
I would expect that they would in fact replace the stamp for you because even though all the letters are now at a uniform height, the width of the letters may still be reduced for the "li" as compared to its neighbors and as a consequence they might still look different than the others. Perhaps you could try stamping something soft like copper sheet in order to test the marking impressions. If the marking test isn't satisfactory, then I think the documentation of what you found, what you did, and the resulting test mark should convince them that they need to make this right for you.

[george wilson]

Companies seem to never use logic as a reason to do the right thing. There seems to be a rather uniform policy of not touching the object or any warranty is voided.

We'll see how this turns out for Stewie. Hopefully they will make it right.

I bought an expensive but very hard to open pocket knife recently. Very dangerous to pry open when the blade is razor sharp. I filed the corner off of the end of the blade inside the handle to try to make it easier to open. The real problem turned out to be that the handle just squeezes the blade too tight. What I did had nothing to do with the factory defect. Yet,I was told that I had voided the warranty. That's how it goes. No logic used in the decision.

[Stewie Simpson]

I would expect that they would in fact replace the stamp for you because even though all the letters are now at a uniform height, the width of the letters may still be reduced for the "li" as compared to its neighbors and as a consequence they might still look different than the others. Perhaps you could try stamping something soft like copper sheet in order to test the marking impressions. If the marking test isn't satisfactory, then I think the documentation of what you found, what you did, and the resulting test mark should convince them that they need to make this right for you.

Hi Pat. I sent the supplier an email on my findings and the actions I took to remedy the situation. He is an old school craftsman that from the feedback I have read from other clients, does takes great pride in his work . I would be very surprised if I did not recieve a response.

appreciate your thoughts.

regards Stewie;