Wooden Jointer

[Ron Patrick]

I have been wanting to get some wooden planes and I was at an antique mall over the weekend and found a Ohio Tools jointer in very good shape, in fact it looks practically unused, for $125. I am pretty much up on the prices of the old Stanleys but not so much on the wooden planes, so I was wondering if any of you could give me any idea if this is a good price or not.

[Jim Koepke]

I am not up on the prices on wooden bodied planes, but my recollection of a post from the past is that is a bit on the high side.

If it is truly in unused shape it might be priced for the collector.

One way to find out what the market is doing is search completed listings on ebay. Looks like most have closed for less. One looks rather unique closed at over $300.

jtk

[Reinis Kanders]

Seems pricey. Sometimes buying unused plane is risky and there could have been reason why it was not used. I have basically unused old metal jointer that has convex sole, came in a box, etc. I am slowly making it flatter so I can sell it in fair conscience.

[Allan Speers]

It sounds incredibly high to me. Ohio Tool made decent planes, but there are commonplace even today. Just a hunka' wood, a blade, and a wedge.

For $125 used, I'd want to get something like an ECE, or maybe a Gordon. - Or a Steve Knight, with those lovely brass levercaps.

FWIW, the ECE is my overall favorite jointer, and I have LOTS of them. It's light, has a slick lignum base (dovetailed in place) a fairly thick blade of excellent steel, and the blade depth & angle is easy to adjust. I kinda' wish it had a front knob, but otherwise it's perfect.

[Warren Mickley]

I would say that if it is in fine condition it is easily worth the $125. I bought a Sandusky trying plane in little used condition for $10 in 1979 and it has been used on every board since. It will easily last a lifetime of full time use. It is the same length (22") as the Lie Nielsen and Stanley jointers and slightly shorter than the Primus ECE jointer. At 5 3/4 pounds it is lighter than the 7 1/2 pound Primus and has a much nicer more comfortable handle. More comfortable, less tiring. The Lie Nielsen is 8 1/4 pounds.

I am sure you could get a better price if you run around a bit or if you could buy from pictures. If the iron, the cap iron and the wedge are all in great shape, the plane is worth a good premium.

[george wilson]

I'd rather have the Ohio plane than a Primus or ECE. They are quite ugly looking.

As said though,there are "new" old tools that were never used due to some problem. We had plenty in the museum's collection. Even an elaborate thread cutting lathe that someone lavished a great deal of effort on,but got it wrong. He had seen an 18th. C. French screw cutting lathe, the type with the spindle that moved sideways,but remembered it incorrectly.

[John Vernier]

I think it is a reasonable price for a plane in nearly new condition, particularly if you are able to inspect it in person before you buy. When you buy planes online there is (or ought to be) a "risk discount" factor. At least that's how I think of it - I am willing to pay more for something which I can verify for myself in advance. I bought most of my wooden planes online a decade ago and more, and although I paid considerably less than $125 for my wooden jointer, the fact is that wooden planes in really good condition aren't getting any more common, and both demand and prices have been going up - the deals on the 'bay aren't what they were. So if you have a really good plane easily to hand, $125 in 2015 dollars isn't such a bad deal.

[george wilson]

Beats the heck out of having Old Street make you a new one. If you could ever get one. Or paying the toll for a new German one with extremely ugly design. I used to COULD buy old planes like that Ohio for $10.00. Those days are gone. My favorite antique planes are British,as far as style is concerned,but you have to get what you can find these days. My favorite is a Nurse I used for years in the museum. I am also glad that I bought my stuff decades ago. You can't find squat in the Pennsylvania flea markets these days. And,if you do,they want a fortune for poor condition stuff.

My last trip to the flea markets in Pa. I found a guy with a WORM EATEN British long bow made in the early 20th. C.. He wanted $850.00 for it,and the bow was not usable. Another guy wanted $850.00 for a set of 19th,or early 20th. C. american gouges,10,I think. Their small,uninteresting handles had been spray painted red. Good luck. They weren't even fit for a collector in the non original condition they were in. I came back empty handed,IIRC..

[steven c newman]

been using my $17 Ohio Tool works #81
317890
This one is "only"22" long. 2-3/8" wide iron.

I could just walk downtown( 3 blocks) to an Antique Mall, and buy 3 more that are 24" long @$20 a piece....

[Steve Voigt]

Antique malls can be very hit or miss. There are some great bargains and some total ripoffs. I think that if you are prepared to spend that kind of money on a wooden jointer, you would be better off buying from a reputable dealer such as Josh Clark, Patrick Leach, or Lee Richmond. Those guys will have checked out the tool with a practiced eye, and they will stand behind what they sell you. For example, if the iron turned out to be a dud, I suspect all three of those guys would give you your money back. The antique mall guy would probably just laugh at you.

One thing for sure you should check is whether the cap iron slides around when you tighten the screw. Even if the cap iron and blade aren't mating perfectly yet, you should be able to put the cap iron edge where you want it without too much difficulty. If you can't, that can be a tough problem to fix.

Lesser problems include a wedge that won't hold under heavy planing, or is holding more on one side than the other, which makes it hard to adjust the iron evenly. Those things are very fixable, but you should decide whether you are up for that before you shell out $$$. For $125, I wouldn't want to have to fix many problems.

[Graham Haydon]

It's a tricky one Ron. I'm not sure if relative to others of the same standard it is a high price. However as much more experienced people than me have alluded to the price asked in relation to the quality of the item is very reasonable. I still need to finish my attempt at making a Jack plane in this style. The simple looks of these tools do not fully explain the detail of these wonderful planes.
If you'd like to use a wooden jointer over the next 5 to 10 years or more the asking price is pretty good.

[Ron Patrick]

Thanks for all the input guys, it has been very helpful. I think that I will go back and look at it again, looking for some of the items that were mentioned. As far as appearance is concerned, if it wasn't for the patina, I would think that someone had just made it. The iron was in very good shape, with no pitting, and the cap iron fit very nicely. I think I will see if he will come down from that price some.

[Jim Koepke]

I think I will see if he will come down from that price some.

Antique malls can be tricky at price haggling. If it is always the same person at the counter they may have a little leeway. Many antique malls have the people with a stall in the store take turns at the counter. Some people are more willing to work on making a sale.

One of the local antique malls is run by a woman who will sometimes lower the price. My suspicion is she is taking a cut from her commission. Another local antique mall has a rotation of people at the counter. That is the one where I met Dave and ended up buying a lot of tools from him outside of the store setting. One of the women who covers the counter will come down a little if you are buying multiple items from the same seller.

Often the best thing you can say is, "I like this, but the price is more than I want to pay." If the person is willing to deal, they will likely come back with an offer.

I have also learned not to accept their offer too quickly. Often while I am thinking about the price they offered, they will knock another $5 or $10 off. I have dealt with a few that start dropping off in increments of $5 every few seconds. When they take a long pause, depending on who it is, I know that is either their lowest price or I can offer $5 less and they will take it.

It also pays to talk to people. If you come in all hurried and brusk, you may get shut out. If you are friendly and engage in conversation about the tools you buy so you can use them, you may make a friend who wants to help you save a few bucks.

jtk

jtk

[george wilson]

I have found some antique wooden planes like new over the years. I'd rather have them than most new ones.Their wood is by now about as stable as it's ever going to be. And,if you plug up the throat at the bottom with some soft window putty,while the plane is clamped to a flat board,you can pour several escapements full of RAW linseed oil,and further stabilize and add weight to the wood. I have had the oil bleed all the way through long jointers many times. I made many trips to the flea markets starting in the early 70's,buying tools for myself,and a succession of shop employees in my and other shops in the museum. I never,ever had any ill effects from filling the planes with raw linseed oil. Did it harden way down inside the wood? It doesn't matter. It hardened completely on every surface exposed to air,preventing any unhardened oil from ever EVER seeping out. If and did seep out,it hardened too. But,I never saw and oily spots where the planes were kept after they had had a few weeks to harden up.

If you try this,take my word and ONLY use rather sticky window putty. It is the best stuff I ever found for keeping the oil from leaking.(It DOES leak a little). But,don't try tape! You could probably pour a little epoxy down into the throat. But,that is going to be trouble to get loose later,and you might damage the throat. I got this trick from old Mr. Simms(whose toolbox remnants Roy had on his show).(A miracle anything survived in the hands of his clumsy,hippie son!)

[Allan Speers]

been using my $17 Ohio Tool works #81
317890
This one is "only"22" long. 2-3/8" wide iron.

I could just walk downtown( 3 blocks) to an Antique Mall, and buy 3 more that are 24" long @$20 a piece....


^ That's what I wuz sayin.'

I have a solid EBONY jointer, with a Moulsen laminated blade & a depth adjusted, that I paid $50 for on Ebay. OK, that was around 2005, but still. None of my other great-condition "simple style" jointers (I used to have the collector's disease!) cost more than $40, if memory serves. Some were probably $10 - $15.

[Allan Speers]

I have found some antique wooden planes like new over the years. I'd rather have them than most new ones.Their wood is by now about as stable as it's ever going to be. And,if you plug up the throat at the bottom with some soft window putty,while the plane is clamped to a flat board,you can pour several escapements full of RAW linseed oil,and further stabilize and add weight to the wood. I have had the oil bleed all the way through long jointers many times. I made many trips to the flea markets starting in the early 70's,buying tools for myself,and a succession of shop employees in my and other shops in the museum. I never,ever had any ill effects from filling the planes with raw linseed oil. Did it harden way down inside the wood? It doesn't matter. It hardened completely on every surface exposed to air,preventing any unhardened oil from ever EVER seeping out. If and did seep out,it hardened too. But,I never saw and oily spots where the planes were kept after they had had a few weeks to harden up.

If you try this,take my word and ONLY use rather sticky window putty. It is the best stuff I ever found for keeping the oil from leaking.(It DOES leak a little). But,don't try tape! You could probably pour a little epoxy down into the throat. But,that is going to be trouble to get loose later,and you might damage the throat. I got this trick from old Mr. Simms(whose toolbox remnants Roy had on his show).(A miracle anything survived in the hands of his clumsy,hippie son!)

This is good advice.

What I do is put a few planes at one time into a shallow, rectagular plastic box (like they make for tool & office supply storage) then just full it up with the oil.

I dunno though if raw or boiled is best. I guess that's a never-ending argument. :)

One thing: Make sure your throat opening is perfect before oiling. Obviously, it if needs any tweaking or an insert, you want to do that first.

[Michael Ray Smith]

We had a booth at an antique mall for a while. From our experience, the only people who make money at an antique mall are the people who own the mall. Typically, malls charge monthly rent, generally based on the number of square feet in the booth, and they take a percentage of the sales. The balance between those two varies from mall to mall, some being high on rent and low on percentage of sales, others vice versa.

Generally the people at the desk aren't dealers; they're the mall owners or they work for the mall owners. Mall owners have different arrangements with the dealers regarding the authority to haggle. Some malls have carte blanche to agree to drop the price by a certain amount, but beyond that they have to call the booth owner. A typical amount is 10%, so always, always, always ask if they'll take 10% off, even if you'd be willing to pay the marked price. Others can't do anything without calling the dealer. If the person at the desk tries to say something like, "I don't have authority to do that," ask them to call the dealer. Sometimes malls will call dealers only if you make a firm offer; they won't call just to ask what's the best price they'll give. Also, most mall owners will not stay on the phone and play go-between for you to haggle with the dealer. Most of them will take one offer from you, and then will relay one counteroffer from the dealer. But if you make a firm offer, very few dealers will just tell you to take a hike, so make your offer fairly aggressive -- try about 50% of the marked price. Sometimes the mall owner won't get the dealer on the phone first time but will leave a message. If that happens, be patient and offer to stick around for a while to see if the dealer calls back. Ultimately, the price you can get will depend on how much the dealer paid for the item and how long it's been in the booth. If you've seen the same item in the booth over a period of a few weeks or months, you've more likely to get a good deal.

[steven c newman]

$125 for a wood bodied Jointer plane? I happen to have a "spare" Scioto Works #81....more than happy to sell it for half of the $125......
317924
Refurbished up and ready to go, too. 22" long.

[george wilson]

Raw oil is best simply because raw oil does not dry as fast,giving it time to completely penetrate the plane before it dries. What controversy can there be about that?

WE eventually began using tung oil on our wooden tools because it does not permit mold to grow on it. Linseed does. Some of the tools in the museum are kept in unheated sheds year round.

Tung oil dries even slower than raw linseed oil. I never liked it as well,myself. I liked the smell of the linseed better(not that tung oil smells bad),and tung just seemed messier to use. Too "oily",if that makes any sense. Seemed more prone to end up just getting everywhere.

And,last,but not least,my wife liked the smell of linseed oil on me! I don't care for the smell myself,but it was a smell from her childhood that had pleasant memories for her. Her grand mother's closet had that smell. When she was small,my wife would go in there and set it up like an office and pretend she was a secretary,or some such.:)

[Allan Speers]

Raw oil is best simply because raw oil does not dry as fast,giving it time to completely penetrate the plane before it dries. What controversy can there be about that?



Well, because BLO also soaks all the way through, long before it starts to cure. I know this for sure, because I once tests with a really beat plane body that I was going to throw way. I let it soak for a while (I don't remember how long, but probably overnight) then let it ooze out & dry, then cut it open.

It seems to me (conjecture now) that having cured BLO inside the plane would make it less prone to movement than raw oil, though maybe there's no real difference in actual use. Wood movement is pretty powerful.