Checking and utilization question

[David Ragan]

Went to get this nice (green) log of white oak yesterday afternoon. CAG Wood up here in Gainesville. (Can I say that?) Super nice, and customer service.

All heartwood, one small knot. We looked through a few logs to select a candidate--not as easy as I thought to get a log with all straight grain and clear.

It is 6" by 6" by 4'. 12 BF $50.

It was cut ~4PM yesterday. This checking was in it this AM, about 5. The ends are now sealed in AnchorSeal.

(Mike H. has generously offered to let me come over and check out his stuff and perhaps help me out with a little select species of wood:D.)

I was really surprised at how quickly the wood checked. For all I know, it did it while being milled yesterday:eek:

Am taking my AnchorSeal with me from now on.

This check is about an inch deep

317599




I have another question..................See how the grain is in the center of the tree? This would be best used for spindles/legs, etc in chairs? (An interest in making my first chair is what is driving all this.)

What I really need for slats, arms, etc is more of a quarter sawn piece. Given this piece is 6x6, I could get some QS out of it, right? It is quite heavy.

Did I do good here? Did I just blow $50?

[Joe Bradshaw]

David, the center of your log has the pith in it. If, it were mine, I would cut down the center and have two equal pieces. As a turner, leaving the pith in a piece has caused me no end of problems. I don't know how well you did, but a piece of wood that size will take forever to dry. I would not want to use green wood for a chair. On the other hand, turning green wood is a blast. Good luck.
Joe

[bill tindall]

If it am seeing it right the piece of wood you bought is from the center of the tree (it looks like the growth rings are in a circle around the center of the piece. This wood was made during the early growth spurt of the tree as it reached for light and it is structurally different from the wood the tree will make later in life. At a typical mill the logs are sawed so as to isolate this center wood into some form that will ultimately be used for some low grade application such as pallets. It invariably splits as it dries because of its high rate of shrinkage.

[Mike Heidrick]

$4 a bd/ft for green wood? Did I read that right?

[Keith Hankins]

Dude, I hate to say it ,but they sold you pith wood for 4bf and it was green! I've seen a lot of tree's milled and that part is considered scrap and gets turned into rack stacks to put lumber on or pallet wood. It's really scrap wood. If you go to lowes and buy 4x4's you will notice most are of this type as it's not used for much.

Green wood cut will check and split, and the pith will really do this. Drying times are generally 1 year per inch for green wood air dried to a usable stable moister content of 6-8%

go to www.woodfinder.com and check out other suppliers. Invest in a moister meter and check the wood to see if its good and do a bit of background check on priceing in your area to see whats going on.

I would not do business with that place again. That was a rip-off. Hate to tell you that/but green wood should not be at retail dried prices. Sorry man.

[John Lanciani]

Based on the pic of the end grain you don't really have much more than an expensive piece of dunnage. Sorry.

[David Ragan]

That is a real bummer.
It's on me, not them. I stood there and watched him mill it
i will talk w owner next week to rectify. The young man who milled it was super accommodating, but unfortunately didn't know enough to advise me-of course, who is going to question ME (ha ha ha)
I think owner will make it right-I had spoke w him twice on phone about what I wanted-he wasn't there after I drove *an hour*
Going over there yesterday was a real pain-I was super tired-now I got to go back; guess I'll just take it back.
I will flagellate myself for awhile-I said 6" by 6", four feet long- next time "HOLD THE PITH"
on a more positive note I'll post about my labors this AM later-then I promise to amaze you all that I actually made something!!

[Phil Mueller]

Wouldn't beat myself up too bad. I've ruined more than that amount in good wood while learning this craft. Can't imagine you couldn't at least get full store credit.
Look forward to seeing your project.

[David Ragan]

For making chairs out of green white oak, you do want straight grain, knot-free heartwood, right? Not sapwood.

Theoretically, IF I took the wood radially from this specimen and worked it-excluding the pith, that would work, right?

I buy 2x12s at BORG, rip them, and get QS stuff......would that work here (theoretically:D). I mean if I feel really motivated in the AM, etc Of course, in that scenario, I forfeit my right to gripe too loud with the proprietor.

[ryan paulsen]

Did you tell the Sawyer what you wanted to do with the 6x6? If you wanted it for a beam that piece would be appropriate, which I'm guessing was the assumption he made.

[David Ragan]

Did you tell the Sawyer what you wanted to do with the 6x6? If you wanted it for a beam that piece would be appropriate, which I'm guessing was the assumption he made.

I told him that I had no idea what I was doing, and that I wanted to rive/split the wood to make a chair.

I am trying really hard to not get upset about the entire thing. I just hate getting upset about stuff like that; about anything, really.

[bill tindall]

There is no kind way of saying this but if you want to make a chair ask a chair builder what you need not a saw mill operator. Given the wholly inappropriate request for a 6 x 6, you limited what part of a log would yield a 6 x6. Go visit Curtis Buchannan web site and learn what you need before proceeding. What you need a section of a log, not a 6 x6 that came from it- and some wedges.

[Brian Tymchak]

I told him that I had no idea what I was doing, and that I wanted to rive/split the wood to make a chair.


It seems that you can still split that 6x6. I assume it's straight grained. I don't know if you will get enough from it to make a chair though. I would split that chunk first where it is starting to check and continue on from there to get the pieces you are wanting.

IMO, (and having not split wood like you want to do), you might want to start with a green log if you want riven wood. It should be a lot cheaper than buying processed lumber. Your lumber supplier didn't do you any favors if you told him you were wanting split wood vs sawn.

[glenn bradley]

That is a real bummer.
It's on me, not them. I stood there and watched him mill it
i will talk w owner next week to rectify.

It is curious that the sawyer did not question you as to the use of the material. If he did . . . ?


Wouldn't beat myself up too bad. I've ruined more than that amount in good wood while learning this craft.

!00% agree. This is a journey. We've all made these moves at some point in our time learning and enjoying the craft.

[David Ragan]

I talked to the sawyer/owner this am, and explained everything exactly as it all happened and asked if there was anything that he could do for me.

what I really need, is like a radial section of about a 24" diameter tree. LIke 1/8 of the tree radial section, so I could get QS heartwood enough to make some meaningful parts of a chair.

He said, well, that is something that we normally don't do much of, esp with large straight-grained white oak. I said, all I need is about 3 ft length. That is probably doable, he says. He'll keep ti in mind and let me know.

So, I'm just going to leave the infamous post blank in the bed of my truck till I hear from him.

Still, it's another 2-3 hours for me to haul back up there. Oh, well......

[Brian Holcombe]

David,

You may want to regroup and determine what it is that you need, because most often I see chair builders or anyone splitting wood into parts, they're starting from sections of a log, not sawn lumber.

A sawyer may not know what a chair builder needs and IMO most commonly someone looking for a 6 x 6 in green white oak is a timber framer. It would be typical to see pith in the center of wood cut for beams, so my guess is that he heard 'green white oak 6" x 6"' and probably thought...oak beam, center of the log.

[Mark Stutz]

I am reading this thread with interest because taking a Windsor chair class is on my short list. If nothing else, you can still split this and get practice riving with a froe and working with/sharpening your drawknife and spokeshaves.

[David Ragan]

David,

You may want to regroup and determine what it is that you need, because most often I see chair builders or anyone splitting wood into parts, they're starting from sections of a log, not sawn lumber.

A sawyer may not know what a chair builder needs and IMO most commonly someone looking for a 6 x 6 in green white oak is a timber framer. It would be typical to see pith in the center of wood cut for beams, so my guess is that he heard 'green white oak 6" x 6"' and probably thought...oak beam, center of the log.

I bet that's it.

[Reinis Kanders]

You could at some point use it for a fire place mantel they often use beams that size.


I talked to the sawyer/owner this am, and explained everything exactly as it all happened and asked if there was anything that he could do for me.

what I really need, is like a radial section of about a 24" diameter tree. LIke 1/8 of the tree radial section, so I could get QS heartwood enough to make some meaningful parts of a chair.

He said, well, that is something that we normally don't do much of, esp with large straight-grained white oak. I said, all I need is about 3 ft length. That is probably doable, he says. He'll keep ti in mind and let me know.

So, I'm just going to leave the infamous post blank in the bed of my truck till I hear from him.

Still, it's another 2-3 hours for me to haul back up there. Oh, well......

[Yonak Hawkins]

I have bought from Stephen before. He's always been a straight shooter with me. He spends time to find out what I want and makes the extra effort to get it right.

That's why it's so puzzling to me that you had this trouble. You drove all the way there and he wasn't even there ? If he wasn't going to be there he should have told you that and gotten all the specifications from you so his saw operator would cut what you needed.

On the other hand, I've always dealt with him in volumes of several hundred board feet, not 12, so maybe he wasn't really concentrating, but that's not like the man I've dealt with. He's on my honest trader list.

[David Ragan]

I have bought from Stephen before. He's always been a straight shooter with me. He spends time to find out what I want and makes the extra effort to get it right.

That's why it's so puzzling to me that you had this trouble. You drove all the way there and he wasn't even there ? If he wasn't going to be there he should have told you that and gotten all the specifications from you so his saw operator would cut what you needed.

On the other hand, I've always dealt with him in volumes of several hundred board feet, not 12, so maybe he wasn't really concentrating, but that's not like the man I've dealt with. He's on my honest trader list.

I'm glad you told me that-that is how he seems to be.

Mike H is going to get me started in all this, though. Steve will get up w me when he has something; I guess I'll call if haven't heard in a couple weeks. Thanks for that.

[Dan Hahr]

For what you are looking for, I'd look up the biggest tree felling service in town and let them know what you are looking for. They send logs like you want to get cut up for firewood all the time.
Dan

[Bill ThompsonNM]

For what you are looking for, I'd look up the biggest tree felling service in town and let them know what you are looking for. They send logs like you want to get cut up for firewood all the time. Dan
This! Ask for 4-6 foot sections though if you're going to build Windsors. Those bows are pretty long before bending and you may want to pick the best part out of a longer log.

[Mike Schuch]

A $50 lesson in buying wood is nothing! Coming here and asking questions before spending another $500 on oak... priceless! (Well maybe not priceless but saved you $500!)