New to woodworking, should I get a table saw to start? [Archive]

Allan Speers

07-16-2015, 11:59 PM

My vote is yes, even though I no longer use one.

There's so much established info, technique & ideas for the TS, that it's probably almost required to have one while you learn various skills. Later on, you may find that you don't need one, but you are likely not at the stage yet where you can make that determination.

FWIW, I use a Eurekazone tracksaw system, including their deluxe table, and this does most of what TS does but with better safety. The few things I'd still want a TS for are covered by my new 21" Band saw, and a large collection of hand tools. However, this direction is definitely not for everyone.

FWIW, There are a LOT of serious woodworkers who do not use a TS, but say they couldn't live without a Bandsaw. There are others who supplement their BS with a radial arm saw. (A good one, not a Craftsman.)

Lots of ways to go.

Mike Henderson

07-17-2015, 12:02 AM

For most people, the table saw is the main tool used in the shop.

Mike

scott spencer

07-17-2015, 5:39 AM

The table saw is the main tool in most shops, and is as good a place to start as any IMO. I'd get at least a full size cast iron saw with a belt drive induction motor, and preferably a good fence and solid wings.

Mike Cutler

07-17-2015, 5:56 AM

First off. Welcome to Sawmillcreek. It's nice to meet you.

Eventually, if you stick with it, you will buy a table saw. It's one of the "basic" machines used in lumber milling and preparation. Jointer, planer, bandsaw, and tablesaw are machines that are pretty much the "cornerstones" of a shop. While the function of each machine can be replicated in different manners, they are very efficient at what they do to facilitate material processing.

I guess my answer would be yes, you should plan on getting a table saw.

Gary Yoder

07-17-2015, 6:16 AM

I started wood working just a few years ago and started out with a tablesaw, small sander and a few hand tools. A local shop allowed me to slip in and use their jointer and planer for a while. A tablesaw is an extremely versatile, and precise tool, if you spend the time to set it up properly and make a few jigs. With a good dado blade, tenoning jig, crosscut jig, it's amazing what you can do, if you don't need to do it FAST.

For me, the table saw would be first, and then a jointer and planer next.

Al Launier

07-17-2015, 6:32 AM

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Robert Engel

07-17-2015, 6:53 AM

Question answered.

Next question is which one?

Pat Barry

07-17-2015, 7:34 AM

Question answered.

Next question is which one?

How much do you have to spend?

Robert Parent

07-17-2015, 7:56 AM

Hi,

Welcome...... I would say it depends on what you want to make or build. For example, if you want to make round bowls, a lathe is more important than a table saw. On the other hand, if you want to make boxes a tablesaw is more important.

Good luck,
Robert

Doug Summers

07-17-2015, 8:08 AM

How much do you have to spend?

Good morning all and thanks for all the info. It seems everyone agrees on the TS addition. Next question is a portable or cabinet option. I'm blessed with a large workshop so space really isn't an issue. I'd like to get a TS for 1K or less, I see lots of them on craigslist for under $500 but many are very old or the portable models with tiny tables. Safety is always a concern with accuracy
a close second. Thanks again for your advise!

Prashun Patel

07-17-2015, 8:12 AM

I disagree.

I am in the 'table-saw-is-the-center-of-my-shop' camp for now, but that's not how I started. I started with specific projects. I made a lot of stuff with the basic set of things you have. You may want one, but I think if you try to build a few things with the things you have, you'll appreciate and perhaps be better prepared to make a proper investment in a good table saw.

In fact, I think a plunge router (or even better plunge/fixed combo that you can make a router table with) is probably a more bang-for-buck next purchase for you.

But again, start with the project before you buy the tool.

glenn bradley

07-17-2015, 8:39 AM

Welcome!

I'll echo some of Prashun's thoughts; a tablesaw is not a requirement for making furniture. I do have a tablesaw-cetric method of doing things. It is the method I prefer and I would hate to do without the speed, accuracy, repeatability and safety of a tablesaw.

I started my tablesaw career with a Delta contractor, moved to another contractor and threw all the after-market stuff at it. This saw served me well for a long time. I then moved to a cabinet-mounted trunnion hybrid and knew the joys of a well aligned saw for the first time; cutting dead square, doing miters and bevel without burning or inaccuracy, it was great. An opportunity had me move from that saw to a 3HP cabinet saw (Saw Stop) and it has been great. I could have lasted a lot longer on the hybrid but, the extra ponies under the hood and the mass of the cab saw sure make a safe, stable platform for tablesaw activities.

Good luck on your quest and enjoy the ride.

scott spencer

07-17-2015, 8:56 AM

Good morning all and thanks for all the info. It seems everyone agrees on the TS addition. Next question is a portable or cabinet option. I'm blessed with a large workshop so space really isn't an issue. I'd like to get a TS for 1K or less, I see lots of them on craigslist for under $500 but many are very old or the portable models with tiny tables. Safety is always a concern with accuracy
a close second. Thanks again for your advise!

Unless you NEED the portability of a portable, nearly all the advantages lean toward a stationary saw. A portable will have a loud direct drive universal motor that relies more on RPM than torque for the cutting, and will be made primarily of light weight materials, and will be considerably smaller. The full size stationary saws will have a belt drive induction motor that's much quieter and will have more torque. A full size saw will have considerably more operating room in front of the blade that allows more space to get the work piece settled before cutting...it also keeps your hands farther from the blade...much safer IMO. The added mass makes it more stable. A full size saw is also much more conducive for upgrades and future growth, as well as better long term reliability. A good portable can do good work, but there's really very little advantage if you don't need to move it from site to site.

The candidates for new full size saw < $1k include the Grizzly G0715P, G0771, Delta 36-725, Ridgid R4512, Craftsman 21833. Of those, the G0715P has the better fence, but also has a history of alignment issues that plaqued some units (same issue applied to the R4512 and 21833 too), but it's supposedly been resolved. The G0771 looks like a great value, and offers cabinet mounted trunnions, full enclosure, and solid cast wings. The Delta 36-725 is another solid value with a good fence. Used can be an excellent option if the right deal comes along.

Andrew Pitonyak

07-17-2015, 9:52 AM

Question answered.

Next question is which one?

He may want a new thread for that question....

How much space is available will determine size. As a paranoid hobbyist, I went with SawStop to minimize the likelihood I would cut-off a finger (or similar).

I would be hesitant to purchase a table saw without an easily changed splitter, decent dust collection, and a reliable fence. Off hand, it sounds like Delta is having trouble providing replacement parts, so I would probably shy away from them.

If you can find a decent used saw, you can save a bunch of money (potentially). My first saw was from craig's list, but it was lacking on safety features so I replaced it with a sawstop. I have not heard complaints about Grizzly, PM, or JET (off the top of my head). I purchased my saw new from a local wood working store that provided good advice and support.

Steve H Graham

07-17-2015, 10:46 AM

I wish I had gotten a band saw first. It's much less intimidating, and it does most of what the table saw does with much greater safety. It will do a ton of things you could never do with a table saw. You will never be able to cut a curve on a table saw. You won't be able to resaw anything thick.

The band saw also wastes less wood because of the thin kerf, and it makes less dust.

I don't think you will be able to get as nice a finish with band saw, but you're going to need a jointer and planer anyway, or some planes.

Erik Loza

07-17-2015, 11:07 AM

I wish I had gotten a band saw first....

+1 ^^^...

If your plan is to build furniture or if you are unsure of what machine for future needs but want a powered machine to learn on, I vote for a vertical bandsaw. As big as you can afford and have the space for. Then, a jointer and planer or combined jointer/planer.

If you plan to do cabintetry, then think about a table saw. Just my 2-cents and best of luck to you. Remember to budget in a dust collector as well.

Erik

Terry Beadle

07-17-2015, 12:31 PM

+1 for 17 in or bigger band saw. With some minimal jigs it can do every thing a table saw can.
However, that being said, a table saw is the rip king of the shop.

Art Mann

07-17-2015, 1:39 PM

+1 for 17 in or bigger band saw. With some minimal jigs it can do every thing a table saw can.
However, that being said, a table saw is the rip king of the shop.

I have had a bandsaw for 20 years now and I have yet to figure out how to crosscut a piece of material so that both pieces are greater in length than the throat width. Will you please explain to me how to do that? Occasionally, I need to rip sheet goods to a greater width than the dimension of my bandsaw throat. Can you explain to me how to do that? Sometimes I rip long and heavy hardwood boards. You say it is possible to do that with a "minimal jig". I can't envision how to construct adequate infeed and outfeed support that I would call "minimal". I use my tablesaw and a glue line rip blade to cut material for invisible glue ups all the time. I have tried several types of bandsaw blades and have never been able to make a cut that I thought was straight enough or of high enough quality to immediately glue up. I certainly don't want to do blade setup changes every time I want to go from resawing to precision ripping either. There are things that a tablesaw can do easily that a bandsaw can either not do at all or can only do with excessive effort. Of course the same thing can be said of a bandsaw. Resawing of wide boards and curve cutting come to mind. What I would ask is, in all honesty, which types of things would a beginning woodworker want to do most and what is the most appropriate tool for that? For a majority of people, I would speculate that a tablesaw is the answer.

John Hubbs

07-17-2015, 1:57 PM

Welcome,
As stated above, yes to the tablesaw. I am of the opnion you can find a great saw on CL if you know what you are looking for. To figure out if a used tablesaw is functioning correctly and a good value for your hard earned $s, you must have a good idea of how they work and how to use one. It would seem you dont have that experience, yet! Check over your local CL, find a buddy how knows how to use one and drag him along. Power tools and bonding time builds great friendships. I will agree with an earlier post concerning Craftsman, they are decent starter saws, but you will quickly outgrow it. Their best fences are crap too. I have several different makes of tools, from old iron like Walker-Turner, to new tools by Grizzly. If set-up correctly, they all do their job. I would also say I have heard alot of negative comments about the support for newer Delta tools. That being said, the older Delta stuff is very well made and you can easily find info on the internet. Powermatic rocks too...

Von Bickley

07-17-2015, 2:11 PM

I have some basic tools, circular saw, jig saw several hand saw, drills, miter saw. I'm looking for something I can get the best bang for the buck. Thanks

Considering that you have started with some basic tools, I think your next purchase would be a table saw. I also think after you get a table saw, your first project should be a decent router table, and then an out-feed table for your table saw.

Jeffrey Martel

07-17-2015, 2:14 PM

No one here has asked you what you want to build yet. Not everything requires a tablesaw. What do you want to build, mostly?

Mike Cozad

07-17-2015, 3:09 PM

I started my tool collection with a Dewalt 7730 radio alarm saw and an old Crapsman 12" bandsaw. I used that combo with a couple of cheapo Crapsman "professional" routers and router table, sanders and a drill. I made furniture, navy retirement shadow boxes, flag boxes and humidors. I did not finally get a table saw until 20 years later when I had room. I still have both of them by the way and have added another RAS and a much larger BS to the arsenal as well as upgraded the routers, sanders, etc. I started out with all the craftsman junk because as an enlisted man in the USN it was what I could afford with my young family in tow. I now have the quality tools that eclipse my skillset, but make the tasks far quicker and enjoyable. I even have hand tools that compliment my power tools. So I'm in the camp with those that say buy the tools when the project you are building needs them.

Kent A Bathurst

07-17-2015, 5:28 PM

I'll make the popcorn ........ :rolleyes:

First off. Welcome to Sawmillcreek. It's nice to meet you.

He may want a new thread for that question....

I'm with Mike -- first reply to extend normal courtesy. Welcome to our end of the rabbit hole, Doug. Glad to have you join in the fun and conversation.

I'm also with Allan. No butter on mine, please.

And.....Andrew -- as opposed to the 1.37 kajillion threads already in the history banks? :p

The key question was asked above a few times times: what do you intend to do? Determine your near-term [1 year +] goal: "By the end next year, I would like to be able to make ______________". Or: "By the end of next year, I need to have made _____________". Fill in the blank.

Me - TS was essential for the first 10 years. Now, I am pondering on operating without one. I can get there with a home-made track saw setup [nyah-nyah-nyah to the kool-aid drinkers], but I can't get there without a jointer and a planer.......and a bandsaw and a drill press........and my CMS cutoff station.........and I really love my mortiser.........

Mike Henderson

07-17-2015, 6:48 PM

I have had a bandsaw for 20 years now and I have yet to figure out how to crosscut a piece of material so that both pieces are greater in length than the throat width. Will you please explain to me how to do that? Occasionally, I need to rip sheet goods to a greater width than the dimension of my bandsaw throat. Can you explain to me how to do that? Sometimes I rip long and heavy hardwood boards. You say it is possible to do that with a "minimal jig". I can't envision how to construct adequate infeed and outfeed support that I would call "minimal". I use my tablesaw and a glue line rip blade to cut material for invisible glue ups all the time. I have tried several types of bandsaw blades and have never been able to make a cut that I thought was straight enough or of high enough quality to immediately glue up. I certainly don't want to do blade setup changes every time I want to go from resawing to precision ripping either. There are things that a tablesaw can do easily that a bandsaw can either not do at all or can only do with excessive effort. Of course the same thing can be said of a bandsaw. Resawing of wide boards and curve cutting come to mind. What I would ask is, in all honesty, which types of things would a beginning woodworker want to do most and what is the most appropriate tool for that? For a majority of people, I would speculate that a tablesaw is the answer.
I'm with Art. I have a 20" bandsaw but it would never replace my table saw. A table saw gives a very clean, straight cut. A bandsaw gives a rough and sometimes not very straight cut. And then you have the throat width problem.

I like a bandsaw for resawing, and for cutting curves, but for general stock preparation it just can't do what the table saw does.

Mike

Allan Speers

07-17-2015, 8:41 PM

I have had a bandsaw for 20 years now and I have yet to figure out how to crosscut a piece of material so that both pieces are greater in length than the throat width. Will you please explain to me how to do that?

This is exactly why God invented the tracksaw. :) - And why some folks love their RAS's.

On the very rare occasions one needs to crosscut a long piece that is thicker than his tracksaw or even RAS can handle, there's this contraption made famous by Henry Disston .....

Lots of ways to do the same thing. Most people are simply comfortable with what they learned on, which tends to be the tablesaw.

And before you mention dados, those are more easily done with a plunge router on a track.
--------------

And yet I still recommended to the OP that he start off with a tablesaw, because there is some much info out there on how to use one, vs alternative methods.

Kent A Bathurst

07-17-2015, 9:39 PM

And before you mention dados.....blah...blah...blah....

Fixt for you, Allan............:p

paul cottingham

07-18-2015, 2:25 AM

If I were starting again, I would have bought the biggest, best bandsaw I could afford. With a proper fence and a good jack plane (to clean the cut up a bit), a bandsaw can do anything a table saw can, and a ton of things a table saw can't. Learn to crosscut with a handsaw, and use the Jack plane and a shooting board to make the cuts perfect. I think you need a shooting board even with a table saw.

seriously, a good bandsaw is indispensable. And much less likely to maim you, to boot.

of course, bear in mind that I'm primarily a galoot.

Allan Speers

07-18-2015, 3:42 AM

If I were starting again, I would have bought the biggest, best bandsaw I could afford. With a proper fence and a good jack plane (to clean the cut up a bit), a bandsaw can do anything a table saw can, and a ton of things a table saw can't. Learn to crosscut with a handsaw, and use the Jack plane and a shooting board to make the cuts perfect. I think you need a shooting board even with a table saw....... .

+1 on the shooting board. Every woodworker should have at least one.

- Even guys that lust after 7 hp motors and power feeders. :)

Jim Wheeler

07-18-2015, 8:59 AM

I have some basic tools, circular saw, jig saw several hand saw, drills, miter saw. I'm looking for something I can get the best bang for the buck. Thanks

Unless you plan to work a great deal with sheet goods, you should probably get the best 14 to 20 inch bandsaw you can afford. Tablesaws excel at cutting plywood and such; of course, they are also good for precision cuts in solid stock - joinery for instance. But the one thing to remember about tablesaws is that material to be cut on them must have a reasonably flat face and straight edge, which will necessitate getting a jointer or planer or building some sort of jig to guide crooked pieces through the saw safely.

A bandsaw doesn't require any of that. You can guide stock against a fence if it happens to have a straight edge, but if it doesn't, you can mark a straight line and feed freehand along the line. You can make a multitude of cuts with no fence or miter gauge or guide of any kind, and you can do so very safely. If you want to utilize found wood such as tree limbs and trunks etc. a bandsaw is your best and safest way to go. No, it won't cut grooves or dados, it can't be fitted with a molding head, and it won't cut a rabbet - but it can cut other types of joints, but maybe not as smoothly as a table saw.

To be honest with you, I started with a tablesaw over forty years ago, but as soon as I obtained a bandsaw I found that I was doing probably 75 percent of my sawing of any kind with that instead of the tablesaw. I own a Unisaw, but I haven't used it in thirty-odd years, because I don't have the space to set it up. The only time I miss it is for very smooth, square cuts on the ends of boards and for large pieces of plywood or other sheet material. For production or commercial work a shop needs a decent tablesaw, but in a home or hobby shop a bandsaw, a sliding compound miter saw, a decent portable circular saw and a good router will take care of 95 percent of your power cutting needs. And don't overlook hand tools. Quality handsaws and planes will do a tremendous amount of work for you - just not on a production basis.

Jim

He who welds steel with flaming pine cones may accomplish anything!

Curt Harms

07-18-2015, 9:21 AM

I'd agree with first asking "what am I likely to do most?" If you expect to do most flat work, a table saw would likely be used the most. If you're thinking Windsor or Maloof style chairs a table saw would sit mostly unused. If you're using sheet goods a lot and don't have help to assist in moving full sheets, I'd consider a track saw. Or if you want to go low-rent a saw board and good blade for a circular saw. People also use track saws to get one straight edge on rough boards.

scott spencer

07-18-2015, 9:35 AM

IMO it's important to stress both sides of the BS scenario. A BS doesn't leave anywhere near a glue ready ready edge IME, whereas even a modest TS with a decent $30 blade will. I think the argument that you won't need a jointer with the BS is optimistic. That rough edge will need to be treated prior to gluing somehow....jointer, planer, hand plane, drum sander, etc.

I also think that the thinner kerf taken by the BS is overstated...the blade itself can be thinner, but the actual kerf equals the overall side to side deviation of the BS blade during the cut, which can really be quite wide if you don't have a really good setup and excellent technique. By the time your done smoothing out the cut, the kerf could easily be wider with a BS. I know everyone's mileage will vary, but that's been my experience.

That's not to say there aren't some definite advantages with a BS, but without stating the pros and cons together, a newbie could easily end up with unsatisfactory results from a BS if he's looking for straight smooth cuts that can be glued up off the saw.

Best bet....get both! And a jointer, and a planer, and a DC, and a DP! LOL...

glenn bradley

07-18-2015, 10:31 AM

Good morning all and thanks for all the info. It seems everyone agrees on the TS addition. Next question is a portable or cabinet option. I'm blessed with a large workshop so space really isn't an issue. I'd like to get a TS for 1K or less, I see lots of them on craigslist for under $500 but many are very old or the portable models with tiny tables. Safety is always a concern with accuracy
a close second. Thanks again for your advise!

Doh! I posted earlier but, just after this post; the scaling on my display made me miss it . . . yeah, that's it . . . the display is to blame.

Anyway, as stated, a portable tablesaw is like a laptop; you only get one if you really need it since it is a compromise. I do sympathize with folks asking questions when the target price keeps getting edged up in the responses. However, the fact is that for any given point in time there will be price tiers for items.

At this time $1000 for a good new cabinet saw is not in the cards. As I mentioned earlier, I was very happy with my sub-$1000 hybrid but, it was a very nicely designed hybrid that is no longer made. There may be some good current hybrids in the sub-grand tier but, I haven't been looking.

Here comes the nudge . . . if you can spend just a bit more you will reach the next tier for a good 3HP cabinet saw. The Grizzly 1023 and 690 series saws have made many people happy in a low price saw for many years. I know we have many owners here. These saws start at about $1300 and are all the saw that many folks need for the rest of their life. More capacity and other model variances can push these saws toward $2000. The next tier hits $3000 (PM2000, Saw Stop PCS, etc.) and so on.

Mike Henderson

07-18-2015, 11:12 AM

Andrew Joiner

07-18-2015, 11:20 AM

IMO it's important to stress both sides of the BS scenario. A BS doesn't leave anywhere near a glue ready ready edge IME, whereas even a modest TS with a decent $30 blade will. I think the argument that you won't need a jointer with the BS is optimistic. That rough edge will need to be treated prior to gluing somehow....jointer, planer, hand plane, drum sander, etc.

I also think that the thinner kerf taken by the BS is overstated...the blade itself can be thinner, but the actual kerf equals the overall side to side deviation of the BS blade during the cut, which can really be quite wide if you don't have a really good setup and excellent technique. By the time your done smoothing out the cut, the kerf could easily be wider with a BS. I know everyone's mileage will vary, but that's been my experience.

That's not to say there aren't some definite advantages with a BS, but without stating the pros and cons together, a newbie could easily end up with unsatisfactory results from a BS if he's looking for straight smooth cuts that can be glued up off the saw.

Scott, this is exactly correct. By far the best explanation of the bandsaw vs table saw debate. My 55 years of woodworking experience have me in total agreement. Low cost carbide circular saw blades revolutionized woodworking back in the 70's. Expensive carbide bandsaw blades will not produce a glue-line ready cut.
A table saw would be the heart of any efficient shop.

lowell holmes

07-18-2015, 12:14 PM

As far as I'm concerned, one word * * * * *SAWSTOP!

Jim Wheeler

07-18-2015, 12:47 PM

Scott, this is exactly correct. By far the best explanation of the bandsaw vs table saw debate. My 55 years of woodworking experience have me in total agreement. Low cost carbide circular saw blades revolutionized woodworking back in the 70's. Expensive carbide bandsaw blades will not produce a glue-line ready cut.
A table saw would be the heart of any efficient shop.

I've not yet had the luxury of owning and using an expensive carbide bandsaw blade, but I've read comments from people who do and they almost universally claim that they will produce a glue-line ready cut. I do know that I can get a very smooth cut from an ordinary carbon steel bandsaw blade that I've re-sharpened by grinding with a specialized jig. No, not as smooth as a good carbide circular saw and certainly not as smooth as a jointer. (Btw, a decently made steel circular saw blade that's been precision sharpened can produce a glue-line ready cut, too.)

I think it depends on what is meant by a glue-line ready cut and just how finicky one is. If it is wanted to edge glue a number of boards to form a wide panel for a table top, when finished appearance is important, I don't think the cut of the finest circular saw blade made will ever equal that of a jointer - and surely not that of a hand plane. But if all that is asked is a butt joint for putting a plywood box or something together, or edge-banding some sheet goods, then yes, a good circular saw blade will easily do the trick. But I've never yet seen one that wouldn't leave teeth marks however slight - nor a visible finished glue line. I'd agree, however, that it's much easier to get a satisfactorily smooth glue-line ready cut from a tablesaw; I'm just not sure that outweighs the other advantages of a good bandsaw.

I don't know if I'm quite as old (I'm 65,) but I've used tools since the age of five fwiw. :-) I recall the 70's and I would say that carbide tipped blades revolutionized the industry primarily because they would hold an edge when sawing man-made materials like particle board, mdf, and plastic laminates which had come into greater use. An ordinary steel blade can be precision made to saw just as smoothly as a carbide-tipped one, but it won't retain its sharpness in those kinds of material. A carbide tipped blade - even an inexpensive one - has to have a certain degree of precision in its manufacturing and sharpening to begin with or it just doesn't work very well at all in anything.

Regards,

Jim

He who welds steel with flaming pine cones may accomplish anything.

John Stankus

07-18-2015, 1:02 PM

I have some basic tools, circular saw, jig saw several hand saw, drills, miter saw. I'm looking for something I can get the best bang for the buck. Thanks

No one has mentioned this yet, but I think the best bang for the buck is going and take some classes and see how you like to work. Most Woodcrafts have a weekend intro course that uses table saw, bandsaw, jointer to build some project. You can get a feel for how you like that type of approach. There are also handtool courses if you are of the Neander ilk. Then when you have a sense of how you like to work, can tool up. I don't think you mentioned where you are from. Find a local woodworking guild, they make a valuable network in figuring out stuff.

John

Jack Clark

07-18-2015, 2:30 PM

This 12 minute video really opened my eyes to a bandsaw's versatility.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpbwH9510MY

Andrew Joiner

07-18-2015, 3:06 PM

I've not yet had the luxury of owning and using an expensive carbide bandsaw blade, but I've read comments from people who do and they almost universally claim that they will produce a glue-line ready cut.

I recall the 70's and I would say that carbide tipped blades revolutionized the industry primarily because they would hold an edge when sawing man-made materials like particle board, mdf, and plastic laminates which had come into greater use.

The carbide bandsaw blades I have will give a smooth enough face on bandsawn veneers to glue down to the substrate right off the saw. However for edge gluing solid stock or edge bandings, the cut isn't smooth enough to give gap free glue lines.

Carbide tipped table saw blades revolutionized my woodworking business around 1970, not just for holding an edge. The blades we had up till then would leave a rough cut. I had to run all my solid stock edges over the jointer to edge glue solid stock or edge band with solid wood strips for years. Even sharp jointers will chip out an edge occasionally, so more waste and re-working. I found carbide blades that cut so smooth we could eliminate jointing entirely with no chip out. No one could tell the difference between jointed and sawn glue lines. We bought S3S stock so no more pushing long heavy stock down to jointer tables! Time, effort and money was saved.

Jon Grider

07-18-2015, 4:45 PM

Yes to the TS. For me the centerpiece of woodworking activity. Get the best you can afford.

John Sincerbeaux

07-18-2015, 11:57 PM

Allan Speers

07-19-2015, 1:52 AM

A word bout the "glue line ready" argument:

It's really somewhat of a red herring. The best way to build quality furniture, that has as little stress as possible, is to rough mill your pieces just a little oversized, let them sit for a day or two, and then take them down to final size.

OK, you COULD take them down the second time on a table saw, but the best method by far is a shooting board. Short of that, unless you have a TS with a sliding table, is a tracksaw or a router on a track.

For this reason, if you are a serious hobbyist or maker of fine furniture, the argument that a TS gives a better edge than a BS is fairly unimportant.

paul cottingham

07-19-2015, 2:37 AM

I find this debate a little silly.
While bandsaws are invaluable to woodworking, they will never match the utility of a tablesaw.
buy a 3hp cabinet saw and build your shop around it. Weather you are a pro or a hobbiest and you want to make things other than puzzles you will NEED a tablesaw.

Hmm, funny that. I know several folks who never use a table saw for woodworking. I almost never use mine, and absolutely wouldn't miss it if it was gone. I'd love the space back, to boot.

Steve H Graham

07-19-2015, 5:45 PM

I have used my table saw to joint stuff for gluing, but the jointer buries it.

You have to be very careful in order to make a nice edge on a table saw, and there are a lot of ways to mess up. When I use the jointer, it takes about one minute from the time I wheel it out to the time I wheel it back in place. It's just about foolproof, and it's a pleasure to use. No snipe. No noise. Very little mess. Very hard to make a bad cut. You can set it to take off a microscopic layer of wood without throwing dust everywhere the way a table saw would.

I learned various ways to joint on the table saw. Clamps, boards, sleds...you name it. I avoid that stuff whenever possible. By the time I find the gadgets and get it set up, I could have done it four times on the jointer, with zero risk of destroying the work.

Bonus: no tearout.

lowell holmes

07-19-2015, 10:24 PM

I have both tools. I will rip on the table saw with a glueline blade and often that's it.

Setting the joiner to eliminate snipe used to be an issue. I recently learned that if you will set the sniped end on the out feed table and adjust it, the snipe will be eliminated.

Art Mann

07-19-2015, 11:35 PM

This 12 minute video really opened my eyes to a bandsaw's versatility.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpbwH9510MY

Yes, a band saw is versatile. This comes as no surprise to anyone who owns one. However, it is interesting to note that the guy did the tenon on a table saw instead of the band saw. Why do you suppose that is? In all probability, almost all the crosscuts and rips were done on a table saw. The reason is that a band either won't do the cut or won't do it very well. If the OP has the money to buy both, then he should certainly do so. The question is which to buy first. My opinion is that the table saw will do well most of the jobs a beginner is likely to do whereas a band saw will not.

I would really like to hear what kind of projects the original poster has in mind. Then, we can all give better advice.

paul cottingham

07-20-2015, 1:23 AM

Yes, a band saw is versatile. This comes as no surprise to anyone who owns one. However, it is interesting to note that the guy did the tenon on a table saw instead of the band saw. Why do you suppose that is? In all probability, almost all the crosscuts and rips were done on a table saw. The reason is that a band either won't do the cut or won't do it very well. If the OP has the money to buy both, then he should certainly do so. The question is which to buy first. My opinion is that the table saw will do well most of the jobs a beginner is likely to do whereas a band saw will not.

I would really like to hear what kind of projects the original poster has in mind. Then, we can all give better advice.

I do tenons on my bandsaw when I don't saw them by hand. But I have a couple of shoulder planes to clean them up, too.

Frank Martin

07-20-2015, 1:35 AM

For the majority of woodworkers table saw (or a slider) is the centerpiece of a woodworking setup. Same for me. I can see with workaround doing without a table saw but using other tools (bandsaw, tracks, etc) but I don't think they can approach the efficiency and quality of table saw. If you don't care about speed and efficiency, anything is possible, including nearly all unplugged hand tools.

Steve H Graham

07-20-2015, 12:46 PM

Mark Duginske has a video where he makes tenons on a band saw. He uses paper shims to get the width correct, taking off about four thousandths at a time. Then he says some pretty harsh things about storebought gadgets.

Steve H Graham

07-20-2015, 2:45 PM

What I should have said was, "If I worked for Woodpeck.com or Incra, I would toilet-paper his house."

Which is probably wooden.

Art Mann

07-20-2015, 7:35 PM

I have used my table saw to joint stuff for gluing, but the jointer buries it.

Suffice it to say that not all woodworkers agree with your assessment.

Pat Barry

07-20-2015, 9:35 PM

Kent A Bathurst

07-20-2015, 9:47 PM

Nonsense..........
Nonsense................
Nonsense ...............

Pat - I'm not sure I understand your position. :confused:

Phil Mueller

07-20-2015, 11:33 PM

As a relatively new hobbyist, I would also recommend a table saw. But, I've done ok with a small contractor saw. It definitely has it's limitations, but I'm not doing production work, so I don't mind the time it takes to set up jigs and indeed/out feed tables, etc I have made decent glue joints, miters, tenons, dados, groves for inlay, etc with my $300 saw. I spent considerable time setting it up as best as I can, and investing in some good blades. Now I am tight on space, you aren't, so a hybrid or cabinet saw would definitely be less work.

Other power tools I find essential is my router/router table, and surface planer. Beyond these power tools, I rely most on a jack plane, jointer plane, router plane, chisels, and hand saws.

Welcome to the craft, and enjoy the journey!

Dave Verstraete

07-21-2015, 6:30 PM

paul cottingham

07-21-2015, 8:06 PM

Nonsense (a bandsaw can do anything a table saw can, and a ton of things a table saw can't.)
Nonsense (a good bandsaw is indispensable)
Nonsense (I'm primarily a galoot)

Uh, what the hell?

Kent A Bathurst

07-21-2015, 9:48 PM

Uh, what the hell?

tongue in cheek. used the wrong critter/icon, I guess. You could not have been more clear...........;)

Henry Kramer

07-21-2015, 11:40 PM

For most people, the table saw is the main tool used in the shop.

Mike

Yes, and I am one of them. Almost every one of my projects either starts with or involves my table saw.

Mike Schuch

07-23-2015, 12:08 AM

I rip boards on my 10" powermatic cabinet table saw... that's it! I do most of my wood working on my 16" 1947 Redstar radial arm saw. When I grew up a Delta turret arm radial arm saw is the only stationary saw my father owned and that is what I learned on.

That said making a table saw the center of your shop works very well for the majority of woodworkers and is an excellent place to start if you are new to woodworking!

Dennis Aspö

07-23-2015, 8:15 AM

Tablesaw then bandsaw, that's how I rank them. Router is used very little, for speciality operations where I need it. Granted I have a weak router and it's not very good. But for things like making the dadoes to house the bottoms of drawers I prefer to just do those with the table saw, quieter and faster even if I have to cut twice to get it wide enough(don't use dado blades, saw cannot take them).

I started getting into woodworking due to building a house, and then I noticed woodgears.ca and snowballed from there.