Caution on Wilke if you're rural

[Rick Schubert]

About 3-4 weeks ago I finally decided and ordered an Yorkcraft 8' jointer from Jay at Wilke. I live in the middle of nowhere - roughly 30 south of the the Canadian border, an hour south of Thunder Bay.

Not many truck lines come this way and freight was expensive ($238 after the $30 was taken off). I asked at the time to make sure it would be delivered by a truck with a liftgate and was assured by Jay that it would. A week ago an 18 wheeler showed up with my jointer, but no liftgate! The driver wanted me to help him lift it down to the ground, but I've had three hernia operations and am trying to avoid a fourth.

I told him the shipper had guaranteed me a liftgate and he laughed and send: "Sure they do. It's easy for them sitting back in PA. Our line has only one truck in the fleet with a liftgate." I had to refuse it and was told it could be weeks or months before I would get it.

I called Jay as soon as the truck left and after explaining the situation he said: "Well, that isn't very good customer service is it? I will check into it". He said R&L line that picked it up in PA has lifts on all their trucks, but they had inter-lined my jointer with another company out of Duluth to get it here.

I haven't heard anything from Jay since.

Today I got a call from the line in Duluth to reschedule the delivery. I asked about a liftgate and the dispatcher said the truck would not have one. They only have one truck that does. He said they will try and send it up next week but could guarantee nothing. (They come up this way once a week).

Just thought anyone living in a rural area and thinking of wordering from Wilke, or anyone else possibly, would want to know.

Still waiting, Rick

[Jeff A. Smith]

Had the same thing happen with Mini-Max last week. It's a game played not by the vendors, but by the shoddy service of the local truck lines. They accept the orders with "liftgate required," then they bellyache about not having a liftgate and pallet jack -- even though they took an order and accepted YOUR payment (in your case an order placed with them from Wilke, using your money) for that service.

I raised cain with the trucking line -- "You accepted a liftgate required order," I told them... "Yes sir, but we only have one truck with a liftgate." "Fine... I really don't care if you have a liftgate or not. Just bring enough people to sit that 1000-lb box-on-a-pallet down in my shop." A day later, they showed up with a liftgate and a pallet jack. They even claimed they didn't own any pallet jacks. A trucking company with no pallet jacks?!?!? Funny thing was, by the next morning, they mysteriously owned one, and it wasn't new.

Anyway, raise sand with the trucking company. They'd rather you build a loading dock and rent a forklift, but you PAID for liftgate service, and they're supposed to deliver it.

Jeff Smith
Athens, AL

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

Brings back memories of accepting deliveries for the computer center. Computer room on the second floor, loading dock a non-standard height (I never did undestand how the Corps of Engineers let THAT happen!)...the Air Force ALWAYS specified inside delivery. I can't tell you how many times Bubba would show up with Mrs Bubba riding shotgun...and NO RAMP, NO PALLET JACK, and NO LIFTGATE. They don't care...they KNEW we had a ramp, pallet jack, and a bunch of 'get 'r done' guys that WOULD get whatever it was off the truck. Scares me to think back on some of the things we did...

KC

[Don Frambach]

Yikes! I ordered a table saw a few weeks ago and paid additional charges for a liftgate and they are supposed to place the pallet inside my residential garage. Sure hope I get what I paid for.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

I had good luck with my lift gate delivery. Came on a semi with a lift gate, only thing on it, clear from Milwaukee (About 2 hours away).

[Steve Rowe]

Rick,

R&L does indeed have lift gates on their trucks. They have picked up and delivered for me and all have had lift gates. ABF has also made deliveries but they don't have lift gates. They did have a fork lift in the back of the truck with some special forks that they can lower the freight to the ground. It sounds like the problem is with the carrier. I would get back in touch with Wilke and have them apply pressure to the carrier they contracted with. Since they do a lot more business with them than we as individuals do, they will have more clout.
Steve

[Steve Clardy]

I just have everything heavy delivered to my local lumber supplier. They unload there for me with their forklift. They usually call me, then I go in with my truck and bring it home.
Then I call my dairy farm neighbor, and he comes over with his tractor and front end lift and unloads it for me into my shop.

[Herb Kelley]

I know your pain.
The closest grocery store is ten miles.
The game the truckers play here is to call and say they want me to meet their truck at the loading dock of a manufacturing company six miles away.
They say they cannot get their truck to my address, read 18 wheels and no lift gate. In all cases I refused and contacted the shipper who worked it out with the trucker who found the right sized truck. An exception was Woodworker's Supply got it right the first time. Lift gate service, at no extra charge. The only problem was my icey sloped driveway. Had to reschedule twice and then the inexperienced driver, went off my driveway into packed snow and we had to help him out.

[Brian Triplett]

I must be one of the lucky ones :o , when ordering by bandsaw from laguna they actually had it go through two shipping companies, one to get across the US and one who actually when out and rented a truck with a lift gate to get to my house. I live about 20 miles outside Raleigh, NC.

[Garry Smith]

When I ordered my Unisaw last fall from Woodworker's supply they told me that the company delivering the saw would have a liftgate truck and would sit it inside my shop if the shop had a large enough door. I told them that it was unheard of in my area of the country. They assured me it would happen.

Sure enough, the carrier in what is considered to be loacal delivered with a liftgate and sit the saw down just inside the big garage door.
I could'nt believe it.

[Kevin Post]

I've had the same trouble each and every time I've ordered big machines. None of the freight companies have showed up with a lift-gate. Each time, one of two things happened.

I've gone to a local freight depot with my truck to get it.
With the driver's assistance, I've slid the machines from the trailer to the ground on a pair of planks.

I haven't raised too much of a stink because I was just so darned happy that my new toys had arrived.

-Kevin

[thomas prevost]

I ,too, live rural and pay for tailgate as it is over 100 miles 1way to most depots. When they showed up with no tailgate that was on the invoice, I refused delivery signing "refused due to damaged goods." This would require them to ship back to vendor and get replacement at their expense. A phone call from the dispatcher soon got a liftgate truck with the goods.

This trick is very common here as we live in a tourist area and none of the gift shops, store, have loading docks.

[Bill Lewis]

This reminds me of the time when I bought my first real table saw. A Delta CS, which was only recently replaced/upgraded. I too had paid extra for a liftgate truck.

When it was ready to be delivered, the trucking company called to set up a delivery and a time. I had to take a day off from work to be home, and they never showed up. Many phone calls back and forth later, the trucker was having some kind of mechanical trouble. Finally he did show up very late with my saw....in his car!

[Allen Bookout]

I had the same experience as Garry and Herb with Woodworker's Supply. My Uni showed up in a 18 wheeler with a lift gate and pallet dolley and sit it down in my garage right where I wanted it. What a plesant experience. Woodworkers Supply must have an in with the shippers.

[Don Frambach]

Just wanted to post a followup on my SawStop delivery. I have never ordered a machine this large before so with great fear I paid extra for liftgate delivery and for delivery into my residential garage. The SawStop people assured me that there would be no problem and there wasn't. I'm going be be a little more relaxed about ordering larger machinery in the future! I do live in suburban Southern California though and this may make a difference.

[Dev Emch]

Here are some shipping guidelines.

1). Most of the machines you guys buy are shipped using container freight companies. These companies, such as yellow, overnight, fed-ex green, charge HUGE amounts of money to move things. Dealers often have shipping contracts with these guys of about 40 to 60 percent off. So you should always ask to see if they have contracts and if so, let them arrange the move.

2). Often, container companies are not able to get a dedicated truck to your location for *EITHER* the drop off or the pick up. In order to faciliate this, they use another trucking company called an INTERLINE. Now, if you need a lift gate or tommy gate, its the interline that will need to provide this. BUT, HERE IS THE PROBLEM. Most container companies do not recognize the discount contracts *IF* an interline is used and they do not inform you if an interline has been pulled into the fray. You learn of this at the last minute when a $150 dollar shipping bill is now $450 dollars! So you really should avoid the use of interlines and put that into writing! Make sure they have it in writing that you will not honor any deals involving the use of an interline.

3). Container shippers have the right to re-adjust a shipping bill up to six months after the item has been delievered and signed off. So you may be happy with your $150 dollar shipping bill and 5 months later, you recieve a nasty letter from the shipper demanding that you immediatly pay an extra $300 dollars and that the reason given has been for a freight readjustment.

4). Understand how the fuel surcharge can affect your shipping contract and your quotes. In some cases, anytime any item on the bill of lading is changed, some companies will automatically recompute the fuel surcharge at the time of the change entry. "Change Requests" can lead to massive confusion and frustration for you. Be aware of anyone wishing to post a change request. A popular one is that the effective quote number does not jive with the valid bill of lading number, henceforth, your not allowed to pick up your item. This needs a "change request" to process and the next thing you know, your paying for a $43 dollar fuel surchange difference on top of everything else. Also note that a change request can cost as much as $80 dollars per change. So make sure that your only paying for those changes that are actually your fault. If they made the mistake, why should you pay $80 dollars to correct it?

5). If at all possible, you should look into alternative means of moving machines if your doing this more than just once under a blue moon. Putting yourself at the mercy of these shippers can delay your delievery by weeks and cost you significant amounts of money that you dont need to pay for. Many woodworkers have utility trailers and some have used pallet jacks and machine rollers as well. Check out EBAY for any possible deals and check out auctions.

I personally use rollers by GKS to move machines about. Mine can move a 25,000 pound machine so the ones you get will be much smaller and lighter. A bottle jack modified into a toe jack is also nice to have. Eventually, I will put a fork lift and loader on my vintage tractor farm tractor. Here is a photo of how to unload machines the old fashioned way when no lift gates are available. This unit just had its trailer driven out from under and now it needs to be lowered to the ground.

I DO NOT SUGGEST ANYONE USE THESE METHODS UNLESS YOUR FAMILAR WITH THE WAYS OF THE RIGGERS WHO DO THIS FOR A LIVING. In other words, I am a trained monkey and I do this almost for a living!

[Arnie Grammon]

Maybe I'm missing something, but when a person pays $1500 for a piece of machinery, then starts getting worried how to offload because they are too cheap to go rent a forklift for $40?

I ordered a 20" Jet planer a few months ago, and they delivered without a liftgate but I was ready with a locally rented forklift. I sleep better at night not having to worry about my equipment taking a dive off of a semi.

Arnie

[Paul Canaris]

Freight companies are a PITA, always have been.
Awareness seems to differ among vendors regarding how freight carriers work; they need to take some of the responsibility for what happens. Switchovers from one carrier to the next are common and often change on the fly. When I purchased a slider from Laguna, they politely told me that there was no way they could guarantee a local delivery with a lift gate even if money exchanged hands; they gave me some suggested workarounds, I appreciated the up front advice, made other arrangements and all worked out well; it would have been a real nightmare trying to get a 3000 lb crate of a truck without a forklift on hand.
Since then I have learned when dealing with any vendor to either have a forklift on hand when the economics dictated it or use a local rigging company; they will accept deliveries and deliver for a fee or accept deliveries for a small fee and let me come and pick up with a few friends, where it can handled.

[John Miliunas]

I've purchased a lot of stuff from Wilke and couldn't be happier with them or their freight carrier (R&L). We're out in "the sticks", as well and our driveway is most definitely NOT semi-truck friendly. Not wanting to deal with the "interline", as Dev refers to, I have elected to meet the driver at the local truck stop with my trailer in tow. The drivers (twice w/the same guy!) have always been most accomodating and extremely helpful with offloading the heavy equipment on to my trailer. They simply lower the liftgate to the level of the trailer.

At our old house, I had purchased a midi-sized lathe from Wilke, also delivered by R&L. This place had room for a semi, but the guy just parked on the road and hoisted those lathe parts down himself and dolly'd them to my garage!!!

Rick, I would definitely contact your rep at Wilke and explain the situation to him/her, AGAIN! I think it's time Wilke got on the case and not let off until you get what you (and THEY) paid for!:cool:

[Dev Emch]

Arnie...

With due respect, finding a forklift for rent for $40 dollars is a dream come true. The last fork lift I rented cost me close to $450 dollars. Granted, I had to load and unload a few items and it took a couple of days. In general, a forklift will cost you about $150 dollars per day. You can find some with a 2 to 3 hour minimum charge. But in our case, that starts when they leave the rental yard and it takes them about 30 minutes to drive the forklift out to our place. The delievery charge was about $50 dollars on top of the fee for rental. Now, there is one other option. If you know of an industrial zone where there are forks around, you may be able to talk a guy into a "Pick" where he drives out of his warehouse onto the asphalt, picks the machine from the waiting truck and drops it off onto your trailer and goes back inside the warehouse. Such a pick is often from $40 to $75 dollars. If you hire a rigger or other outfit to drive the fork to your place, unload it, pick the item off the truck and reload the fork onto their truck, you can expect to pay about $75 to $150 dollars for that. Riggers are the worst. The cost of hiring a rigger is massive! Many folks including the wife of the owner of Laguna tools simply have no idea of what rigging costs are! Given the insurance liability of these folks and the type of work they do, I can understand some of it. But I also think that they take advantage of the situation. If you hire a rigger, then the rigger will use the following SOP or standard operating procedure. You need a site supervisor, a forklift operator, a forklift and a truck to transport the forklift. Sometimes, the truck needs its own driver as they need to do other things once they drop the forklift off. If the truck has to sit around, then you are charged for the truck during the pick operation. The most cost effective solution to using riggers happens when the riggers are brought in during an auction. Then, you can get them to do a pick for $50 to $75 bucks. But if you have to bring them onto site for your problem, be prepared to pay!

Another option is to use tow truck companies. I have actually used a local tow truck and car repair business to move my metal planers. The big one weighs 14,000 pounds. They have a few wreckers including a large KW which is used to haul large semis and motor homes that get into trouble. These guys can be very reasonable. A standard tow truck can easily handle a typical woodworking machine such as a jointer, table saw or even a 24 inch planer. You may need to invest in a set of nylon slings and some clevis pins if you go this route. Typical cost is about equal to that of having your car towed the same distance. Much better than using riggers.

Yet another option is to find a local with a backhoe. Backhoes can also be used to move stuff with ease. But if backhoes are working double duty like they do in our village, this may be hard to do. But I did load up a yates cast iron Y-20 snowflake bandsaw for hauling to Los Vegas last summer using the sellers old ford backhoe. Worked like a dream. We used the hooks welded onto the bucket to hold chains and slings and just lifted the saw using a nylon sling onto a trailer with a 30 inch deck. No Problems! I have also seen some guys use old backhoes to sling up and move 36 inch bandsaws through 7 foot doors with the saw almost sideways to clear the door. This is what you have to do if the saw is taller than your door! Of course, you have to take the table off just in case. You dont want to drop the saw and break the table.

When you live in the sticks, many times, you will have farmers or ranchers living there with you. It will behove you to know who these guys are as many of them have tractors with front end loaders and backhoes. They also have utility trailers and flat bed trucks. Some even have old leaking and smoking fork lifts. They may look like junk but they still work and you can get your job done without having to pay through the nose.:D

[Wes Bischel]

Arnie,

Lots of ways to skin the cat. The two ways I've had stuff shipped are to pick up at the depot as mentioned, and I had my engine/trans shipped to the company I worked for - they had a dock and forklifts. I got to know the guys in shipping well over the years so they had no problem helping out with an odd request/favor. It may be you have a friend with a similar arrangement.

Wes

[Dev Emch]

The approach Wes used is excellent. And Wes doent even need to file vacation time when he picks up his toys.:D Cost? A couple of cold ones. Way to go Wes!