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View Full Version : No-scald shower valve - Recommendations?



Charles Wiggins
07-07-2015, 1:30 AM
We have a shower over tub with tile surround. The diverter is worn out and we need to replace the old two valve and diverter system with a pressure sensitive (aka "no-scald") valve & diverter. As usual I need to balance quality against cost. Anyone have any long-term experience with a model that is still available or at least a brand that they would recommend?

Lee Schierer
07-07-2015, 7:44 AM
Most modern shower valves have anti scald devices built in. Go with the better known brands. Moen, Peerless, Price Phister, etc. to get long life.

Rich Engelhardt
07-07-2015, 7:59 AM
Moen sucks......pity, they used to be top shelf <--- that comes from an ex-Moen fanatic..

I won't install another Moen in any of our houses ever again.

roger wiegand
07-07-2015, 8:28 AM
The Symmons Temptrol is pretty much the canonical anti-scald valve (they may have invented it). The same guts come in many different trims at any expense level, and I think their valve is the core of many other brands. It's one of the least expensive in the borg-level trims, but they've been around for a long time and they work well and parts are available at every hardware store. In another realm I love the shower valve we put in our new bath. It's from Hansgrohe, uses ceramic disks so will never need washer or O-ring replacement, and is thermostatted, not just anti-scald. So if you set the temp at a given position it is always the same whether the incoming cold water is at 45 degrees or 65 degrees (about the seasonal variation we have). It's clearly overkill, but has that feel of well-machined German engineering about it. Kind of the Festool of shower valves.

Phil Thien
07-07-2015, 9:08 AM
Moen sucks......pity, they used to be top shelf <--- that comes from an ex-Moen fanatic..

I won't install another Moen in any of our houses ever again.

Recently (six months ago) did this at my daughter's house and every plumber to which I spoke wanted to use Moen. Did a lot of research at plumbing forums, they all said Moen.

Went with Moen, works great.

Mike Cutler
07-07-2015, 9:24 AM
Charles

There are anti-scald valves, pressure compensating valves, and then there are pressure compensating valves with anti-scald. Grohe and Moen are the only ones I am familiar with that combine both features. I'm sure there are others, but once you combine both features, you're looking at an expensive valve, no matter who makes it.
We have the Grohe Thermo-Mix valves in our showers. Pressure compensating, anti scald, and temperature controlled. They're expensive though. Lowe's now carries Grohe in a limited inventory, but they may be able to order from their entire inventory.

Larry Browning
07-07-2015, 9:55 AM
Ok, call me ignorant or accuse me of having my head buried in the sand, but what the heck is an anti-scald, pressure compensating valve? Trying to read between the lines tells me that maybe this is something that will stop or reduce the effect of what happens when the wife decides to flush to toilet or start a load of laundry while I'm in the shower. Wow!, what will they think of next?

Charles Wiggins
07-07-2015, 11:03 AM
Lowe's now carries Grohe in a limited inventory, but they may be able to order from their entire inventory.

If it's a good brand, our Lowe's here in Rutherford County probably does not have it. They seem to only carry the lower end of anything where they have the option. I order a lot of stuff online.

Charles Wiggins
07-07-2015, 11:06 AM
Ok, call me ignorant or accuse me of having my head buried in the sand, but what the heck is an anti-scald, pressure compensating valve? Trying to read between the lines tells me that maybe this is something that will stop or reduce the effect of what happens when the wife decides to flush to toilet or start a load of laundry while I'm in the shower. Wow!, what will they think of next?

Larry,

Here's where I learned about them a few years ago:

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/video/0,,20810415,00.html

Ken Fitzgerald
07-07-2015, 11:09 AM
Ok, call me ignorant or accuse me of having my head buried in the sand, but what the heck is an anti-scald, pressure compensating valve? Trying to read between the lines tells me that maybe this is something that will stop or reduce the effect of what happens when the wife decides to flush to toilet or start a load of laundry while I'm in the shower. Wow!, what will they think of next?

Larry, you assumptions are dead on!

Here's a explanation of the difference between pressure regulating and anti-scald valves http://www.hometips.com/buying-guides/shower-valve-anti-scald.html .

Rich Engelhardt
07-07-2015, 12:26 PM
Recently (six months ago) did this at my daughter's house and every plumber to which I spoke wanted to use Moen. LOL! The plumbers probably wanted a future customer (for when the supposed warranty Moen touts didn't cover the broken part ;) ) - - jk --well somewhat...seems like everything I have with a Moen name on it has some broken part or another & none of them seem to be covered by the """Lifetime""" warranty.

Larry Browning
07-07-2015, 1:24 PM
Larry, you assumptions are dead on!

Here's a explanation of the difference between pressure regulating and anti-scald valves http://www.hometips.com/buying-guides/shower-valve-anti-scald.html .

Way back in the 70's I rented an apartment on a 6 month lease only to discover that there was a SERIOUS problem with hot water fluctuation in the shower. About the only time to take a shower without being scalded was between 2:00 and 4:00 am. Even then, since everyone had the same problem it was iffy. One of my neighbors and I got out of our lease by going to small claims court when they wouldn't let us out of it. Could have used one of these valves there.

Barry McFadden
07-07-2015, 1:36 PM
Moen sucks......pity, they used to be top shelf <--- that comes from an ex-Moen fanatic..

I won't install another Moen in any of our houses ever again.

I have to agree with Rich. Had a Moen kitchen faucet which started leaking soon after it was installed. Called Moen and they sent me a part to replace...did that and before long it was leaking again. Called them again and they wanted to send me another part to change. I told them I had no desire to come home every day and tear apart my faucet.. I had better things to do! Finally got them to send me a new faucet and installed it. Within a year it was dripping ..... had enough of Moen...switched to a Peerless and have never had another problem...

Joel Goodman
07-07-2015, 1:52 PM
I have had good luck with a Delta Monitor valve installed 6 years ago in a house I rent out to not the gentlest tenants.

Julie Moriarty
07-07-2015, 1:55 PM
Moen sucks......pity, they used to be top shelf <--- that comes from an ex-Moen fanatic..

I won't install another Moen in any of our houses ever again.

When we built our house in '86, I did all the showers with Moentrol. Just this year I replaced the cartridges for the first time. What's happened since?

Charles Wiggins
07-07-2015, 2:39 PM
Moen sucks......pity, they used to be top shelf <--- that comes from an ex-Moen fanatic..

I won't install another Moen in any of our houses ever again.

I think Moen was already off my list anyway. My parents bought a modular home in 2007 and it came with all Moen fixtures. I've done more plumbing repairs in their new house than in any of the older houses I have lived in.

Rich Engelhardt
07-07-2015, 5:48 PM
When we built our house in '86, I did all the showers with Moentrol. Just this year I replaced the cartridges for the first time. What's happened since?Five things come to mind...

C-h-i-n-a......

Rich Enders
07-07-2015, 5:59 PM
The Moen 4 way diverter valve in the master shower "broke" in about year 10 of its life. Upon disassembly the poor design of the handle connection to the valve body was apparent. It relied on two 8-32 set screws in a stamped metal tube one of which had stripped out. I was able to fashion a repair, but the original homeowner had to pay a bunch of money for this component which was poorly designed and built.

Larry Frank
07-07-2015, 7:15 PM
I am a Delta fan as I have had good luck and replacement parts are easy to get.

I have had them for years and pleased with them.

Mike Cutler
07-07-2015, 7:55 PM
Ok, call me ignorant or accuse me of having my head buried in the sand, but what the heck is an anti-scald, pressure compensating valve? Trying to read between the lines tells me that maybe this is something that will stop or reduce the effect of what happens when the wife decides to flush to toilet or start a load of laundry while I'm in the shower. Wow!, what will they think of next?


Larry

The Grohe's I installed in the mid 90's were "code required" here where I live. They work by means of two independent sliding valves internal to the main valve body. Central to the valve is a mixing valve with a Bi-metallic strip. This bi metallic cartridge strip performs two functions due it's nonlinear construction. It regulates temperature in a slow manner, but on a sudden loss of pressure, as sensed by the cold inlet port, it moves both valves closed to compensate
This sits in a cartridge that uses house pressure to regulate discharge head flow rate. So, in fact it performs both functions. On a loss of pressure, either cold or hot across the system the main cartridge will do one of two things. Open and close both the cold and hot slide valves, or close the slide valves faster. The long section of the bimetallic strip regulates temperature within a band. My valves will do 70-115 degrees F. You can never get full hot out of my valve(s) in the shower.
I have a well pump set for 30psi, cut-in and 55psi cutout, and the valves work fine. They don't need a constant inlet pressure maintained to function properly.
You can take a shower in my house and I could flush both toilets, turn on the washer, and open up the outside sill cocks, and the temp in the shower will stay the same. Flow out the shower head will change based solely on the ability of the well pump to keep up with demand.

Charles
Grohe is a very good brand, but they are expensive. I hope there isn't a product line difference between what is in Lowes and what is in a Plumbing store. That would be shame. There are many places online to get their products. Even though they're from Europe, their "rough in" spec's, dimensions, and NPT ports, are the same as any other valve.

Mike Henderson
07-07-2015, 8:38 PM
I have American Standard in my home and they work fine. About 10 years old and no problems.

Mike

Ole Anderson
07-07-2015, 9:55 PM
I have American Standard in my home and they work fine. About 10 years old and no problems.

MikeSame here. Mine has a temp control lever, set it once and jump into the shower with it at the same temp you left it. And it gets up to temp faster as it pulls from the hot water pipes first until the hot water starts flowing, then modulates it to the chosen temp. Mine is at least 10 years old.

Chris Padilla
07-07-2015, 10:57 PM
I have almost nothing but Kohler stuff in my house. All work extremely well and their service on warranty stuff has been top-notch. Mind you I haven't had to use the warranty much but they came through when I needed them.

Phil Thien
07-07-2015, 11:00 PM
Well I can tell you I have a big-dollar Kohler and the cartridge went bad within six months.

Larry Edgerton
07-08-2015, 7:36 AM
Grohe in my house. Extremely well made. For example the kitchen faucet weighs in at 11 pounds. Solid Brass. The Starlight chrome finish cleans up like nothing I have ever had I suspect because it is flawless.

I bought mine on clearance at Faucets Direct.

Sad to see them selling at Lowes, seems to be the downfall of many brands, Moen being one example.

Bill ThompsonNM
07-09-2015, 12:21 AM
Grohe in my house. Extremely well made. For example the kitchen faucet weighs in at 11 pounds. Solid Brass. The Starlight chrome finish cleans up like nothing I have ever had I suspect because it is flawless. I bought mine on clearance at Faucets Direct. Sad to see them selling at Lowes, seems to be the downfall of many brands, Moen being one example.
+1 on Grohe. I've installed them in two houses so far. Never a problem.

Brian Elfert
07-09-2015, 10:35 PM
I had Moen faucets in my house built in 2001. The shower valve is anti-scald. I had to rebuild the cartridge in 2013 or 2014. I didn't even bother contacting Moen about warranty. A new cartridge is like $40, but the rebuild kit was way, way cheaper.

The only reason I had to do a rebuild is my water softener wasn't working for 2+ years and the minerals in the water wrecked the cartridge. I don't consider it Moen's fault that the cartridge needed a rebuild.

julian abram
07-09-2015, 11:05 PM
Mid grade Delta plumbing products are hard to beat value for the money.

Matt Meiser
07-10-2015, 8:38 AM
We have all Moen in the bathrooms. House was built in 2004 and had outdated brass-and-chrome trims. We replaced the vanities when we moved in 11 months ago and put new Moen faucets in. For the main bath tub/shower and master bath roman tub, and shower we bought complete kits but just replaced trim (cheaper to buy the whole thing at Lowes than buy trim kits) because the valves were all in good working order. Old house I didn't really pay attention to brands and just bought what looked like we wanted and felt reasonably good quality. Not the cheapest, not the most expensive. The only faucet/tub valve problems I had over 10 years in the bathrooms was replacing one original (1991) Delta cartridge, which probably just needed the o-rings, and a shower valve body that had a pinhole leak right out of the box--can't remember the brand. The kitchen did have to be replaced under warranty twice before I switched to a different design and I remember that that was a fairly cheap Price Pfister. If I'm remembering correctly Price Pfister had me go buy whatever Pfaucet I wanted at Home Depot, no price limit, and call them back with the model number. They then sent me that exact model about 2 days later and had me return it to Home Depot. I had way more problems with low flow toilets and their fill valves. And that house we had a lot of minerals in the water even with a good softener.

Roger Feeley
07-14-2015, 4:07 PM
Larry, I first ran across pressure balancing valves when I taught photography in a high school. My students would be washing their film after processing and the kids in gym class would hit the showers. The hot water pressure would drop and the wash water would get very cold very fast and reticulate the film. I went to a plumbing supply and they turned me on to a valve that would ensure that the pressure between hot and cold would remain equal. After installing the valve, the gym kids would hit the showers and the flow on the film would be reduced the the temperature remained steady.

Some years later, we moved into a house where the master bath was far from the HW heater. I would be in the shower and the bride would flush the toilet and the water would get very hot very fast. I installed a pressure balancing valve and that fixed the problem.

In the last 20 years, things have gotten better. Now, I would put in a thermostatically controlled valve and just turn the shower on and off. We are getting ready to build a house and that's what I will be going for.