Dust System on 19" Band Saw: Useless?

[Steve H Graham]

I have gotten to a point where the dust from my table saw, planer, jointer, and router table isn't a major problem. That only leaves the band saw and drill press. I think the drill press is a lost cause, but I'm wondering: is there any hope for the band saw?

My saw is a 19" Shop Fox. It has two dust ports on the lower cabinet. One is right under the bearings, and the other is at the bottom. But there's a gap between the cabinet and the table, and it's over 3" high. Seems to me that sucking air from the cabinet ports isn't going to accomplish a whole lot, since a lot of the dust will never get to the lower cabinet.

Am I wrong? I feel like I might as well continue using the shop-vac. Every so often, I open the cabinet and suck out the accumulation.

I feel like I could do a better job suspending some sort of bag around the table so the dust can't get to the floor.

[Tom Trees]

Hello Steve
Theirs a guy on youtube that has done similar to what you say on a laguna bandsaw .
titled ..
#43 - Dust Collection Solutions for your Bandsawthe guy's username is half-inch shy
Hope it helps
good luck
Tom

[Steve H Graham]

Thanks. That video is pretty interesting. You have to wonder why the manufacturers don't make a couple of plastic parts that fit under saw tables.

On a related note, my insert is horrendous. The hole the blade goes through is now 1/2" wide, which seems excessive to say the least. I am thinking about cutting a new one out of aluminum, but I'm wondering if it will screw up the saw blade if something catches or whatever. I could also order delrin off Ebay. Does anyone here know if aluminum is a bad idea?

The current insert is cheap plastic.

[daryl moses]

h
Seems to me that sucking air from the cabinet ports isn't going to accomplish a whole lot, since a lot of the dust will never get to the lower cabinet

.
You would be surprised at how much sawdust will collect in the bottom cabinet without the dust collector running.
I forgot to open the blast gate on my bandsaw [Rikon] once while resawing. When I opened the lower cabinet sawdust was pilled up past the bottom of the wheel.
Even with the dust collector running I still get a lot of sawdust but it helps a lot.
BTW I make my own table inserts out of thin plywood, I used the original insert as a template.

[Steve H Graham]

I wonder if the answer is to plug the top port, put a shroud under the table, and suck from the bottom port.

[Jamie Buxton]

My bandsaw has that gap under the table too. But if I don't run the DC when I'm sawing, the air quality in the shop goes bad quite quickly. Perhaps you can improve things with shrouds and bags, but at least you should try the OEM collection before you invest time in those attempts.

[Jim Andrew]

My mm16 has a 4" dust port, and does not get all the dust. Been thinking of making a new guard for under the table, and hooking another 4" flange onto it.

[Chris Parks]

Make up air is the key to a BS cabinet. To draw out the dust laden air there has to be a way for the air to be replaced and generally the only way to do that is an inlet port. The saws that have two ports already have one, others have to be modified to provide one. On my Jet I used to crack the door a touch and wedge it open and this worked as well as anything. Laguna a while ago were boasting that they had improved the door sealing in their saws and this is an example of a manufacturer not understanding the problem and doing the exact opposite to what is needed.

[James Baker SD]

A lot of Euro bandsaws really have 120mm ports and a plastic adapter to stop it down to 4" for the U.S. market. I replaced my 4" adapter with a 5" adapter and I am pretty sure I saw an improvement in the dust extraction from within the cabinet.

[Chris Parks]

James, now add an inlet port/vent and watch it improve by a lot.

[Brian W Smith]

Even if you have plastic S&D,metal is the way to go for hoody's because..........you can bend it into whatever shape you want and it takes up WAY less room doing so.Compared to the usual Rube Goldberg'ish assemblies most often displayed,under a BS table.Further,we've had better luck blowing metered air(mini regulator mounted to the side of BS upper frame) via 1/4" refrigeration line,DOWN....through the cut....directed at the blade "port".Versus using overhead DC pickups,it also helps on clearing swarf when cutting abrasive exotics,extending blade life a little......but really,some of these woods are toxic enough that even if it was only the DC side of it,it's worth the effort.Good luck.

[Rod Sheridan]

Steve, I use a high tech small cardboard box connected to the 4 inch hose, attached with a bungee cord under the saw table.

Looks awful, works pretty well............Regards, Rod.

[Frank Drew]

I cut a coffee can to fit and it worked reasonably well.

[Robert LaPlaca]

I find the bandsaw is one of the tools that seems to generate tons of relatively fine dust that is tough to capture, you really need a DC with excellent amount of CFM's to keep up with the tool.. I have a newly installed Oneida Pro 2000 that I find can finally keep up with the volume of dust generated by my MM16..

[James Baker SD]

James, now add an inlet port/vent and watch it improve by a lot.

Chris, I actually did that at the same time. Saw is much less dusty now, both on table top and inside the cabinet. Dylos says the air stays cleaner as well. Like Rod's mine is ugly, but it seems to help.

[James Baker SD]

Chris, I actually did that at the same time. Saw is much less dusty now, both on table top and inside the cabinet. Dylos says the air stays cleaner as well. Like Rod's mine is ugly, but it seems to help.

Maybe I misunderstood, I added another collection port between the blade guides, not a replacement air port.

[Steve H Graham]

I think I could improve it a lot with a few pieces of velcro and four pieces of hardboard. It wouldn't work if I angled the table, but I have to consider the other 99% of the time.

As for the insert, I am concerned that aluminum will catch the blade and cause a disaster, but I have some polycarbonate lying around, and I think it will be perfect for the job.

[James Gunning]

Looking at photos of your bandsaw, it looks like it's set up pretty well for dust collection. The bottom cabinet and the area under the bottom guides is where most dust and chips land, so a port in the top of the bottom cabinet is well located. My 18" Jet has a port on the side instead of the front as your does, but that collects probably 90% of the dust/chips. The rest tends to land around the bottom guides and top of the bottom cabinet. A little bit always escapes and lands on the table. When I upgraded my dust collector I went to 6" hose which required that the ports on my machines be enlarged as well. The photos show what I did with the bandsaw. The plenum mounts to the 4" port already in place, but has the additional 2.5" tube reaching into the area around the bottom guides. That collects from an area that always tended to get packed with chips before. It also allows the dust collector to flow more air than the 4" port alone could.

You don't mention what kind of dust collector you use. If it's just a shop vac, that could be the area that needs to be upgraded first.

As to the insert, my Jet uses a round aluminum insert. I also hate mine. I wish they had used something more easily replaceable.

316862316863

[John Donofrio]

Depending on how the underside of the table is designed you may be able to do something like I did recently whcih works really well. It's on a Rikon 14" bandsaw with a 6" drop.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?230728-Ductwork-installation-underway&p=2435525#post2435525

[Steve H Graham]

Today I made a new insert from polycarbonate. Much nicer than the old, lumpy piece of plastic Shop Fox provided. But I'm wondering: will the lack of air holes in the insert improve dust collection or make it worse? I can still drill holes in it if I have to.

316872

[James Gunning]

Steve,

I would be interested in how you made your new insert. I have a metal lathe and I've considered making some by turning a disk and then cutting the saw kerf into it. Problem is the disks would be pretty thin for any kind of plastic.

[Steve H Graham]

You're going to love this. It's from the school of "Hold my beer and watch this" machining. If you try it, wear a face shield and stand back.

I could not figure out how to chuck something 1/4" thick and machine it to 0.170". I finally got brave and went with double-sided tape. I knew some people use superglue for things like this, but I was not eager to glue up my chuck.

I took a piece of 2 1/2" aluminum rod and taped a square of acrylic (I have no idea why I said it was polycarbonate) to one end. This was my second try. The first time, I taped it to the chuck jaws, and things went badly.

Obviously, you need to make sure the rod or arbor or whatever has a face that is flat and perpendicular to the lathe axis.

I used an HSS spooling tool to do the cutting. The tape gives a little, but it pushes back hard enough to make the tool cut, so if you move the tool slowly, the workpiece will level out and give you a flat surface. Turned the square into a circle 2.75" in diameter, and then I took facing cuts to thin it down. As it turns out, I was off on the thickness, so I had to resort to wet/dry paper to fine-tune it. This was a real pain.

I made the kerf by taping the disk to a piece of wood and running it through the band saw, with the old insert in place. I was off slightly, so I had to open it up using a belt sander. I put the belt inside the kerf and ran the sander slowly while praying a lot.

Also, I believe you have to relieve the corners that contact the table. There may be crud in the insert hole, not to mention burrs. Stuff like that will lift the insert up so it bumps against the wood as it approaches.

This stuff machines beautifully. You just have to take your time. I don't know if carbide would work. You need something sharp.

I think a smart person would try to start with a rod, so new inserts could be sliced from it as needed. And I am not going to claim that the 2-3 hours I spent fooling with this made economic sense.

Strands of swarf tend to fuse into each other, but they don't stick to anything.

I may buff it so it's clearer.

[glenn bradley]

I close off the lower hole entirely as it is no longer required. I added a diverter near the top collection point and covered the lower port with a magnetic sheet.

316920 . 316921

I built a collector for under the table. Held on with magnets and removes easily for blade changes.

316922 . 316923 . 316924

I get about a teaspoon of spoil in the lower cabinet per year, the DC gets the rest ;-)

[Steve H Graham]

Looks like something I need to steal.

[David Ragan]

My mm16 has a 4" dust port, and does not get all the dust. Been thinking of making a new guard for under the table, and hooking another 4" flange onto it.

MM has a pretty robust Forum of nice folks that have all this worked out. I have never done it, though. My MM16 has a 6" just a few feet from DC and very little gets out-that I can see anyway.....ha, ha, ha

[David Ragan]

James, now add an inlet port/vent and watch it improve by a lot.

Doesn't the gap where the blade comes down through the top of the bottom cabinet provide enough inflow?

[James Gunning]

Steve,

Thanks for the insert manufacturing info. I was planning on starting with either a polycarbonate or aluminum rod just a bit larger than 2.75". Face, turn to diameter, and part off a few copies. If I can't locate any properly sized material, I may try your method. Light cuts and going slow can make a lot of things work that wouldn't otherwise.

I also thought about turning a step into the edge that would make the insert thicker except at the edges where it sits on the machined step in the table.

[Steve H Graham]

I think your way is better than mine, but the acrylic was pretty thin to begin with, so the middle wouldn't be a whole lot thicker than the sides.

[Steve Peterson]

Make up air is the key to a BS cabinet. To draw out the dust laden air there has to be a way for the air to be replaced and generally the only way to do that is an inlet port. The saws that have two ports already have one, others have to be modified to provide one. On my Jet I used to crack the door a touch and wedge it open and this worked as well as anything. Laguna a while ago were boasting that they had improved the door sealing in their saws and this is an example of a manufacturer not understanding the problem and doing the exact opposite to what is needed.

My 18" MM S45 has a gap of about 1/8" all the way around the lower door frame. This gives about 9 square inches of makeup air, but still starves the 4" dust port. A lot of fine dust still settles at the bottom. I also added a shroud under the table for a 2nd 4" port. This helps a bit. I still have to open the cabinet every once in a while and vacuum out the dust. My next step is to add some ducting inside the cabinet to try to direct the air stream closer to the blade.

I don't worry too much about dust from the drill press. Most of it is large chips, especially when using forstner bits. It makes a mess on the floor, but not much of the dangerous small particles.

Steve